E62 | Bridging the Gap: Return to Play Protocols and Strategies for High Performance Teams

[00:00:00] Donnie: Welcome to the team behind the team podcast. I am your host, Donnie Maib. This is the monthly show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to athletic performance, strength and conditioning, sports medicine, sports science, mental health and wellness, and sports nutrition.

Hello, and welcome back to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Donnie Maib, and man, oh man, we are well into the fall now, and today’s guest is somebody who’s been at Texas a little over a year, but I am so excited to have her on. Please welcome to the show, Macy Franklin. Macy, welcome.

[00:00:44] Macy: Thank you.

It’s good to be here.

[00:00:46] Donnie: So good to have you on the show. Macy, works with women’s soccer here at Texas. They’re in middle of the season. Busy right now, right coach?

[00:00:55] Macy: Yes. So

[00:00:56] Donnie: thank you for making time, but just so glad, you made time to be on the show. Just a brief intro and then we’re going to let you talk here, but a little bit about Macy, if you have not met Macy.

You need to reach out, follow up, connect with her at some point. So I worked with men’s tennis, here at Texas half for years. And we were in the NCAA championship back in this is May of 2023. And we had one of our staff on the sports med side leave. And so Macy stepped in and filled in that role during that critical time and did an absolute, just incredible job.

And so when I first met you coach. And I call you coach, but it’s Macy, right? When I first met you, I was like, who is this person and where is she from? Like, why have you not been here before this? So you did it, that, that was a, I know that’s a crazy week. You did a great job, Macy.

[00:01:50] Macy: Thank you. I actually enjoyed it a lot.

I really did. I’d only been here a couple months. So it was cool to like, get that experience, meet everybody, meet you and Communicate, collaborate with a few of you guys while we were there for the week. So I really enjoyed it.

[00:02:02] Donnie: Yeah. that’s a true test, right? Of, the level of expertise and competence is just taking somebody and just throwing them in the fire and you respond to so with that, maybe just give us a brief introduction of where you’re at now, obviously Texas, but where did you come from?

Give us an introduction.

[00:02:22] Macy: Yeah. I’ve lived a few different places now. I, grew up in Hickory, North Carolina. So I played soccer my whole life. I went to a, small university there called Wingate University. And I played soccer there at the division two level for four years. That’s where I studied athletic training.

And I also minored in Spanish while I was there. after that, I decided, okay, I’ve been working in a smaller school setting, experiencing that as an athlete and a student. I wanted to see what it was like as an, in the sports medicine side in a big school and see what it looked like in a different level to see where I fit in, where I functioned at my best capacity.

So I started applying to a bunch of different grad schools and ended up at the University of Alabama. So I did my grad assistantship there with rowing and assisted the athletic trainer with tennis. Loved it. Absolutely loved working at that level. Wanted to continue it. Decided since it was my first time being away from soccer, I was no longer playing, I wanted to get back with that, and that was now my goal.

After that, I went to the University of Louisville for a year, and that’s right when COVID happened, so I got a good half a year, worked with women’s soccer, and worked with women’s tennis there. So that was my first taste of tennis as well. then after that, I got a full time job at the University of South Florida in Tampa.

So I worked there for the, for about three and a half years before coming here to work soccer here at Texas. So I’ve been all around the Southeast, Kentucky, Florida, Alabama, and now Texas.

[00:03:51] Donnie: That’s great. A couple things. so again, just being around you, watching you now. I don’t work as close with you as I did that week at tennis, but I see you pretty consistent.

Energy is very infectious, so you’re always, there’s always something that you just seem like you love your job. So why did you choose to be an athletic trainer? That’s a tough profession, especially in this current time. Why’d you pick it?

[00:04:16] Macy: I think I picked it because I knew How much I enjoyed like competition and sport and being involved in athletics and I really like when people push you to be your best like I like when people are like expect, the most out of you because then you’re going to always be at your best.

So I knew I loved being in sports, but I wasn’t going to be a professional athlete. I wasn’t going to make my living off of playing, playing a sport. So I also had the passion about caring and taking care of people. I’ve always had a protective nature of wanting to look out for people. So I was trying to find a way to put those things together.

And actually in high school, I had a friend of mine be like, Hey, do you want to come do like student athletic training with our sports medicine staff? Like we had one athletic trainer there and help out in the spring. And I was like, Yeah. Why not? And I just discovered I loved it because of the fast pace, the chaos, you being able to like care for people, take care of them in these fast paced moments, and people be able to rely on you while still getting that other side of life that I’m passionate about with like competition and competing and that sort of thing.

So that’s what started it and I have like never turned away since then. It’s been something I’ve always been passionate about and therefore I’m very protective of it, which is why I do focus a lot on the energy on making sure, like I take care of myself and I’m like keeping myself in a really good headspace because of, What that will then give the people that I’m working with.

So like I care so much about athletic training. I don’t want to get to the spot where I’m feeling like burnout or, feeling overworked because I want to make sure I make up for it in other ways, So I think that’s how I like try and keep my energy up and stay passionate about the job.

[00:05:59] Donnie: I think that’s such a good point because I really feel like.

In our line of work, I’ll never forget when, my wife and I, we, have four daughters and they’re all grown now. When we were looking for, doctors, to take them to, right? And we tried a couple different ones, but I’ll never forget the guy we ended up going with here and, he’s here in Austin, Dr.

Prock now. just his energy and. His bedside, demeanor really is what you call it. When we came away, I was like, I don’t know who this guy, but you can just tell he cares, And it’s that’s the one thing I picked up on you immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously you love your job. That’s not hard to see, but you really care about people and the detail, the way you talk to them and follow up with them.

that makes a difference. and that’s what stood out in you. Now, what, if you had to pick one thing for our listeners, what would it be? So if you had to pack a suitcase, you go and put one item in the suitcase. So you have to narrow this down. What do you love the most about your job?

[00:07:06] Macy: Probably the impact you can make on it.

it’s like a background role, it’s a support staff role, but the impact you can make on these athletes by being around them every day for a couple of hours every day can be huge. And so I don’t take that responsibility lightly. so being able to make an impact with educating. These young adults about their bodies and empowering them to make decisions on their own and know how to care for their body once they’ve left a university, once they’ve gone on to do whether they work or continue playing, I think that’s something they’ll get to take with them and have the rest of their lives.

So that’s a huge impact. And you can either add to that or or be no value or take away from it. So like knowing The responsibility of being around them and the exposure to them has such a big impact. You have to make smart decisions on what kind of impact you like want to have with them.

[00:08:01] Donnie: Yeah, I would agree. I think the, even now, I’ve been doing this a while now, obviously, but the influence. And the close contact you have with student athletes, they’re in the most fashionable, probably time of their life, 18 to 21, 22, if they stay longer. And they’re, and somebody like yourself, they’re going to spend countless hours with you, probably more than their coaches, not more than practice, but individually, probably with you in time of influence and how to think, how to be, how to be mature, how to see the big picture, how to handle adversity.

They’re going to come to you for a lot of that. And so the influence and, Your ability to shape their career and their character is ginormous. And I think that’s, I would agree. I really enjoy that part of it too, to be close to those kids. it makes the difference. so let’s transition a little bit here.

you’ve, obviously spent a lot of years working with female athletes. What have you seen that makes, that moves the needle the most in helping keeping them from getting injured? And you can pick, if you want to be specific, you can pick a body part, a knee, a hip, a back, a shoulder, but just digging it.

What, do you see that helps keep them strong and healthy and keep them from getting injured?

[00:09:21] Macy: Yeah, so I almost want to lean a little bit more back on education and empowerment because I’ve never been able to fix problems, or prevent problems on my own. The athlete has to buy in. But for the athlete to buy in, they have to know why.

And so I think a lot of it is explaining to them, these are the things that I want you to try doing, and then telling them why, and how it’s going to benefit them, and discussing later, how did you feel? What did you feel was most beneficial for your body? And allowing them that independence to understand it’s okay, and you have a voice to tell us.

what helps your body recover the most. And so that’s a bit on like the recovery side too, but also on prevention. I give them the education, I give them the tools, and I encourage them to use those tools. encouraging them to come in and get those maintenance programs, get prevention programs, explain to them why it’s beneficial, and then allow them to hold that responsibility to continue it and be consistent because with injury prevention, it’s not what you do, one day and it’s not what you do one day every couple of months or missing one day.

It’s all about the consistency of it. So just the buildup of each of those little things is what’s going to make you more resilient. You don’t, you get a level of resiliency just in general, natural, but to build on resilience, you have to be able to have a little bit of consistency. So I think that’s the biggest thing.

Once you can educate, empower them on what they need to do, then they can take on that responsibility to implement it, to start building that resilience in their bodies.

[00:10:57] Donnie: What have you done? So no, I love that. But what have you done? The kids that like to do that and they buy in quick were great, right? They set the tone.

How do you, what do you do? You got some strategies, techniques for kids that like really struggle with that. Even after you educate them, empower them, they just can’t get with it. what have you done? what are some strategies maybe you’ve used to get them going a little bit and be more, help them be more consistent?

Okay.

[00:11:23] Macy: Yeah, I think part of it is one making sure that you have their trust and respect one so that they like what you’re saying to them and you’re communicating with them. They like respect and trust and then to being able to explain it to them, show it to them and understand that it’s your working with them.

So if you need to compromise a little bit. So some of the things that I’ve done, maybe I want them to do five exercises, three by eight to 10 of each of these, Activation exercises or rehab exercises. If that is something that I consistently see them being non compliant with, I’m gonna have a conversation with them, be like, Can you agree and can you commit to two by eight?

to 10, or maybe I say, okay, I’m going to give you three exercises. Can you commit to three by 10 of each of these exercises? And a lot of it is getting their verbal confirmation that they’re committing to what I’m asking of them. And just being like direct with our communication of. I see that this has been difficult for you to commit to.

It’s something that’s maybe a bit too much of a jump from what your normal day to day routine is. How can we meet in the middle? I’m willing to compromise with you where it’s, a teamwork effort. It’s, Hey, I hear you. I see you. I respect you as well and understand that this is too much for you and you’ve been unable to commit to it.

For whatever reason, can we compromise and find an alternative solution that you’re still getting some benefit and we’ll work our way up to that. Max. Maximum benefit.

[00:12:51] Donnie: Yeah. I think. Yeah, it’s good. almost putting the cookies on the lower shelf. Yeah. I really feel like that’s to your point. The greater, more mature seasoned usually, they know there’s these habits they’ve got to have, whether it’s prehab, activation, rolling, whatever, communicate with you if they need a therapy or something, or, but it’s the ones trying to get them to develop habits, especially with the age group you and I deal with.

they’re coming from. This is a generational thing, right? Kids are coming from their parents, managing and handling everything. And now they come to you and they’ve grow up and manage themselves, be proactive and start to, follow through with a plan. Like you’ve got the plan, but they need to execute the plan if they want to be successful.

So to me, that’s always the hardest part is just trying to instill in them those habits to take good care of themselves, if they want to be successful.

[00:13:45] Macy: And I think too, with that, like I’ve realized pushing. what you know to be true and what you know to be helpful exactly as you know it on somebody doesn’t mean they’re going to instill that habit.

habits take time. Habits take buy in and habits take having enough time and enough effort to put into those things to become a habit. So meeting in that middle ground is something that I think we have to have when we want to instill habits versus just giving them tasks to complete day to day.

So once they’re in, once they see the benefit. Even if it’s, maybe less than what you really, wanted out of them, it still has benefit and it’s moving the needle the right direction.

[00:14:23] Donnie: Yeah, I remember reading a book, it’s been a couple years now, the book’s Atomic Habits, I think you’ve probably heard of it, but it’s a real, real famous read, don’t remember much of the book, but I remember this, and it’s going, you made me think of it, to build habits a lot of times, especially we’re talking about athletes in our roles, you almost need to, it’s not about, Doing this long drawn out protocol that takes 30 minutes, sometimes you just nailed it.

Maybe just two by eight, let’s just do that every day, just a little bit and make it really simple. And it may be even as much as Hey, the equipment’s out right there. When you come in, you don’t, you just come in and do your exercises. And then you start to build and still those habits. It then becomes part of the routine.

And then they begin to own it. And it’s no longer. Your routine, it’s their routine. So I think that is, that’s simple. And again, a lot of times changing a team culture or building a championship team is just getting people to buy in to those little commitments over time. I remember hearing this one analogy, if you compromise, even though it’s a small one.

But a bunch of little compromises over time becomes a big compromise, cause you’re not doing it. So to your point, even like big commitments and small wins over time end up to be big wins and that’s how you change. that’s good stuff. Let’s talk a little bit about return to play process.

That’s obviously something that you’re not only really good at, you’re passionate about. Walk us through your philosophy on that a little bit and your approach when bringing an athlete back from injury. And you can use like ACL if you’d like, or if you’ve got another one that you want to use as an example, talk about that a little bit.

[00:16:00] Macy: Yeah. any time loss injury for me is gonna have that return to play process. I feel like with the sport of soccer, the return to play between where they’ve maybe cleared their. physical needs from a rehab and strength conditioning standpoint, there’s still a really big gap to what that would then look like to play a 90 minute match on a soccer field.

So closing that gap is a big focus of mine. a piece that I really enjoy of how to build up their load with collaboration, obviously of strength, conditioning of sports science. While I’m out there, being a previous, soccer athlete, I feel like I’m able to implement some of the tools I’ve learned over time and in my experiences to help their return to play process go a little bit smoother and ramp up a little bit safer into that return to play to where once they’re full go, the only maybe new stimulus that they’re experiencing is the volume that they’re facing in like a 90 minute match, for example, the stimulus of like randomness happening around them.

And then the extra contact that they’re going to face. So I really like to work on that ramp up into the full return to play piece to help prevent re injury, and prepare them, physically, but also mentally because of that piece, being able to close that gap helps them. Build their confidence to be able to play when it’s time to return.

so that’s something I really enjoy doing, and it just is me working on the sidelines with them a good bit in that return to play piece. I will do that with ankle sprains. I’ll do that with ACL. Kind of any long term time loss injury is what will require that return to play piece.

[00:17:37] Donnie: How do you use technology right now?

we’re in a day that we can collect data on everything. Yeah. Give us some examples of maybe how you would, let’s say, somebody’s, obviously they get injured. Where would you use technology? How would you use it and make decisions moving forward with them? Progressions.

[00:17:55] Macy: Yeah, so part of it is I’ll use the experience I’ve had to look at certain asymmetries when we do the sports science testing, we run them through a full battery of tests.

And when it’s say it’s an ACL return to play, usually about once a month, we’ll do the full battery of testing to just track their, movement patterns, make sure their strength is with, we would love for it to be within 10 percent right to left, but we can restart that return to play like a little bit earlier than that.

and just making sure we’re moving the right direction. Yeah. From a catapult side when we’re using the GPS tracking that helps me with load management for them so that I make sure I’m not doing you know too much or too little in this ramp up into full go. And so what I’ll do is I’ll speak to our sports science department and look at what the load would be for either the athlete’s historical data or athletes within her position to match that day to day load with what the team is already doing so that if there’s no new changes from that side of things.

So obviously it’ll all grow as they get reintroduced into practice and into competition, but matching them as closely as possible to what other people in their position are doing and their historical data is the way I try to close that gap for them.

[00:19:10] Donnie: Yeah, what about, talk a little bit about, that’s good.

So you mentioned your, the performance team, like how do you integrate and work with them? So peel back a layer on some of that right there.

[00:19:24] Macy: Yeah. I feel like if the athletes, the center of everyone’s job here, we all overlap a little bit in our expertise. We’re not siloed like view on things.

We all are able to help each other out and we’re all able to learn from each other. When I’m trying to do something like a return to play, maybe it’s a little bit more on a performance side. Maybe it’s a little bit more sports science. So I’m going to lean heavily on them in that role. I always follow up and ask questions and I, our strength conditioning coach, I talk to her a lot back and forth about what they’re doing in the weight room so that my rehab is complimenting what they’re doing versus, us doing the same stuff.

Yeah. or doing too much of one load or one stimulus. So we make sure to, Collaborate with each other so we compliment each other and then we follow that up with all of the sports science data to make sure it’s achieving the goal that we’ve set forth for that athlete. So then obviously we’re going to meet and talk to the coaches and modify where needed.

Day to day communication honestly is, the key. It’s just always communicating with each other, updating each other, and catching things before something goes the wrong direction. And complimenting things and celebrating the winds when we’re moving, in a great direction too. So it’s easy to keep track of those things when you’re able to look at it.

Day to day.

[00:20:43] Donnie: Yeah, there’s a quote that goes along with kind of that question to it. And I forget. I think it’s more of a john Maxwell quote, but it talks about how you know, as leaders, we should find ways to complete each other versus compete against each other. So to your point, collaboration is Maybe sometimes, maybe you’re more, you’re giving more direction and what you would like to see from a certain area, but they’re, carrying the heavy load of, whether it’s testing or evaluation and you’re doing a little bit more in the back end.

But then maybe as they get moved further in their return to play, they’re getting healthier. Maybe you carry a heavy load in the weight room and eventually maybe it’s more weight room and then finally back onto the field. So it’s a fluid process, right? There’s never like these, It’s clear cut always.

And so to your point, you’ve got to have good relationships with all those people and you’ve got to have really good communication and knowing the target. The thing I think that gives you an edge to Macy’s like you played soccer at a high level, obviously. And so that helps you know what that should look like and what it’s going to take to get them back there and put them in.

Because I think to the when you look at injury, cause I, I went through a really bad injury in college and I remember Macy, mine was ACL, my left one. There’s such a fear there of re injury and when you start looking at the mental side of injury, like I remember reading in the book, they said you really aren’t truly healed all the way until you just don’t think about it all the time in your mind.

How do you handle that or manage that with athletes?

[00:22:27] Macy: Yeah, I actually also tore my ACL in college. I had three weeks left of my senior. soccer season and tore my ACL. so I actually didn’t go back to play after, but to do any active thing afterwards when I knew no one else was looking at my injury, no one else was rehabbing me.

It was kind of me throughout the whole process. The terrifying bit of is, has it been long enough? Am I strong enough to do this stuff? even though it wasn’t going back to a high level of soccer, I wanted to still be able to do sports and run and jump and cut and be safe. So I think A lot of it comes from doing and just taking time to do those things.

So if you can have good structured guidelines and allowing them to explore within those guidelines and, make some mistakes and try something that maybe makes them sore the next day, but they’re able to see what their body can do and that it’s okay. a lot of that, with education of where they’re at and what they’re doing, giving them feedback on what the load looks like on what the sports science looks like and where they’re at and how far they’ve come.

That final bit is just the experience of doing it. We also obviously with any long term time loss injury, I’m promoting our behavioral health services. I think it is important to learn how to cope with stress and also acknowledge the grieving period that you go through with a time loss injury. It helps you prepare your mind and body to go through what you’re about to go through, and once you’re back, how to, handle those stressors as well.

So I do think that’s something that I really, encourage our athletes to do after a time loss injury as well.

[00:24:09] Donnie: Yeah, to me, you’ve, been through ACL yourself. I, have. The hardest part, again, today is so different than it was back when I was playing, but maybe a little better when you were playing, but back when I was playing, you literally, When you got hurt, you were out, you weren’t around the team, you were isolated, so full, didn’t know it, probably full blown depression, super discouraged, you get pulled completely out of the community that you normally spend a lot of time with.

You got a lot of free time. You’re in pain. You’ve lost your identity, your purpose, your people, right? And man, it’s a hard thing. and, You realize today, like the mental side of the injury oftentimes is the most difficult piece, the mechanical, physical side. you know that you’ve done that enough where you can see that the roadmap for that is for here’s A and here’s Z.

Here’s how we get to the end. But the mental piece, I remember, I think it was, it’s been a quite a while now. We had one of my volleyball girls went through a, a season ending injury before she even started. The level of like depression and, just anxiety she went through was just, it blew me away.

And I, it was, she made it through fine, ended up having a really good career. But man, to watch a kid go through something like that, and you really can’t do nothing to help them. I have so much compassion for athletes today to have those kind of injuries and they’re just battling their way and they’ve had everything, just like you said, a time loss.

I’ve never heard that said. That’s good to hear. That’s a good way to say that, so it’s tough.

[00:25:49] Macy: Yeah, definitely. I think, too, one of the things to combat that, a lot of it comes with confidence, of course. you’re building confidence in them, you’re offering. whatever support you have and whatever resources you have to them and continuously checking in on them to make sure that they are coping, and they’re, moving the right direction even when they have bad days.

a piece of when they’re in the return to play, I try to get someone, even when they’re injured, depending on what the injury is, involvement in team activities as much as possible around the team as much as possible. If they can only do the warmup with the team, I want them doing it. Just to be a part of the team as much as possible, the more they’re seeing that light at the end of the tunnel, it can be encouragement to them, it can help give them hope and help them see, Oh, I just did a full team warm up.

I actually feel great. That was surprising to me. Now I feel encouraged. Involvement is something I really try to do as well with them.

[00:26:42] Donnie: Yeah, I think, case in point, the more you can get them around their teammates, where it feels more normal, even though it’s not normal, obviously, but just it feels like it’s, they’re part of the team, they’re not isolated, makes a big difference.

especially how much time they put into all that, right? You don’t want to just pull them out of that, we’d love to shift gears a little bit here. Let’s talk about leadership. Leadership. And, working at Texas, you were at South Florida, you were at Louisville for a little bit, intern there, you, what have you found that works best on being a leader in your role in building relationships with your coaches?

How do you do that?

[00:27:26] Macy: I think right away when you, what I realized since I’ve been at a couple of different places, the hardest part is at the beginning, because you have so many like ideas and goals, but you have to understand that it’s. not something that happens right away. And also, you have to build relationships first.

I need to build respect and trust and understanding and figure out each other’s personalities with any of the staff to be able to work with them and understand, what’s going on. What they like, what they don’t like, how do they want to communicate? How do they not like to communicate? But also being okay asking those things.

Not everything has to be trial and error. You can ask how someone prefers to be communicated with. I’ve had situations in the past where, maybe one head coach wants to be communicated with, differently with timelines. If I take that, communication standard and take it to the next head coach I work for, they might want the opposite.

So I have to be willing. to understand that every single person I work with is going to be different and want different things. And it’s not something that bothers me. It’s something I want to just know and understand so that we can build our relationship to the best it’s going to be because you have so many people you’re working with.

So as much as what I’m trying to get out of my athletes, I would hope the people I’m working for and working with want the same out of me. So building trust, building respect. Being able to educate your athletes also shows your level of competence with certain things. I want to be able to show my competence with, my coaching staff, with my colleagues, to be able to say, this is my plan and then explain my plan based off of, the best evidence based practice, but also my experiences and also patient feedback.

So having all of those things to communicate, explain, and if I don’t know something, telling them my plan to find that thing out, I think is important too, because it’s okay to say you don’t know. And there’s certain instances that can be so complex or convoluted that you need to sort it all out and then come back with an answer.

And I think it’s okay to explain, this is what I know, this is what I think, but it’s also okay to say, But I want to dig deeper and give you a more detailed answer after I do a little bit more research. So I think just like being transparent, trusting others and respecting others if you want those same things in return.

[00:29:44] Donnie: So have you ever, curious, have you ever messed up with a head coach or an assistant coach?

[00:29:49] Macy: Messed up how?

[00:29:50] Donnie: Meaning, you did something that they didn’t agree with or or something like that, because to me, and what I’m trying to get at here with being a leader is oftentimes, we like when things go great, but then we’re, when you’re, moving into a new situation, again, I’m not talking about here necessarily, but just in general, You may do something that, that you just don’t know that person well enough yet.

You don’t know the system or the program and you mess up. I think there’s part of being a leader is can you mend and fix that moving forward? Cause you talk about trust, I believe. And I couldn’t agree more. Trust is built, right? it’s like a brick. You build trust one brick at a time to build that wall.

But if you break that trust, sometimes, the whole wall can come down. I know I’ve done it in my career. I’ve definitely failed miserably before with my boss years ago. And it took two years to rebuild that. So I don’t mean nothing that big. what would you do in an early on job? Somebody that’s younger, for example, I had a, when our former interns called me last week, he took a head job at a pretty good school with, he’s going to be the head strength coach for a program at this school.

Brand new. He wanted to know, what would you recommend I do? I told him, I said, man, you need to meet with that head coach. And you need to ask, you have a list of questions, questions like, Hey, six months from now, coach, I’m doing this job. How would you, what would you say to me of how I would be successful that, so anyways, if you can think of anything that you’ve man, I messed up there and had to circle back and maybe you’ve been perfect. I don’t know.

[00:31:45] Macy: no, of course not. Of course not. No, I actually like Alluded to it in that conversation because it’s one of the first things I think of just a like common miscommunication Was a situation where I was communicating with a head coach, you know For example on an injury this person earliest they’re going to be back, five to seven days Right now if they weren’t back on that five days And they’re, I’m back six, seven, eight.

She was expressing frustration with me. And so I had a conversation with her after practice one day, and was just like, Hey, I want to know how you want to be communicated with, would you like the most aggressive timeline that we’re shooting for, even if we don’t achieve it? Or do you want a more conservative timeline so it is more predictable and likely?

More likely, they’ll be back by that time, in certain situations. And she was like, no, I want more conservative. But I made the mistake of, comparing another coach that I worked with wanting the most aggressive timeline. And so instead of asking her how she wanted that return to play communicated, I just was like, oh, this is how I communicated with the past.

This is how she’ll want it as well. And she did not. And that’s totally fine. So I think for me, I was like, I apologize. I should have asked you. How you wanted to be communicated with on this side of things and now we’re on the same page. And so this won’t be an issue in the future. I think admitting you’re wrong and also just acknowledging once you can face and acknowledge whatever the miscommunication problem thing was, then you can resolve that conflict.

I think working in a setting like sports in general athletics, conflicts are happening all the time between all different members of the athletic department and you have to figure out how to move forward, how to address the conflict and let, pride just go because it’s not relevant in terms of overcoming conflict because you’re all on the same team.

To bring Not only the best performance out of the athletes, but to take care of the athletes to your best ability. So all of us have a responsibility to think of them first. So I think as long as you’re doing that.

[00:33:51] Donnie: No, that’s an incredible example actually because here’s why this is just me today.

The emotional intelligence you need to do that. obviously, you know what, being human, there’s going to be mishaps in communication and expectations and just misunderstanding, right? Because everybody communicates, listens, hears differently. Thought you meant this, you didn’t mean this. And that’s, to me, being a leader is figuring out, okay, what are you expecting of me?

And can you clearly articulate that sometimes, even though a head coach can articulate that they may not always clearly paint a picture to the level of where we understand it to execute it, how they want to execute it right to your point. I have worked with coaches then. I’m doing it now.

One of my coaches, man, he is. our tennis coach, he is like type A. He’s got if we got a recruiting visit, it’s at third, it’s, 1233, he’s to the tee. Whereas like volleyball is a little bit more, they’re organized too, but it’s just not as dialed down to the specific amount, right?

And I’ve worked with our staff at Tech. There’s some coaches that, they want you to be more of the driver on it, where, you know, that you got to be proactive and get them more information. And sometimes they’re good with it and they may not want it unless they just ask. So it’s a little bit more loose.

And so I think being a really good leader is being adaptable in communication styles, but also, when you do make a mistake, it’s not the end of the world. It doesn’t show you’re incompetent. It just shows you care about people and your job and you’re going to be a leader. I’m going to fix this, right?

And just be proactive. And so I think that’s what makes the difference a lot of times in these. Cause you’re going to have problems, like you said, but I think oftentimes how you fix problems, Shows you what kind of leader you are. Cause that’s what you do. At the end of the day, leaders solve problems.

They’re not bringing you in because things are going great. And the higher, the you go up in the organization. I don’t care what it’s, you’re gonna, you’re gonna handle bigger problems. And if you can problem solve with really good creative solutions and do that in a way that you don’t alienate people and run them off, you’ll keep getting promoted because that’s hard to find people to do that.

You got to be able to handle demanding coaches or coaches that aren’t as great communicators. It’s tough.

[00:36:21] Macy: And I think when you’re focused, when you know your clear values and what values guide your compass, then before you make any decision, before you make any move, If that’s centering you, then you’re going to be going the right direction.

If I’m worried about how something made me feel, and so now I’m going to make a decision to make myself feel better, that’s not on my compass, and that’s going to take me the wrong direction. But if I know my compass is, okay, I am in this conflict, but it’s to resolve And find a solution for my student athletes, then this is how I would handle it and my feelings aside, regardless of how I interpreted something or how the miscommunication went, I have to remember that it’s not about me in those moments, and I can handle those things later, right?

that’s something I can overcome, but my goals are to benefit the student athletes in whatever way I can.

[00:37:16] Donnie: So you nailed it to me. That was it right there. Cause you made me think back personally, where I’ve really struggled the most in the past is if you get into these situations, a head coach says something to you or.

on a way that your ego gets hurt, your pride, right? You take it personally and then you get, insecure when it’s really was never about you. It’s about helping this athlete, right? And that just, and then it becomes a way bigger issue than it should have been. And whereas you, if you just own it, apologize for it and move forward, then it’s, over.

But I’ve literally seen Nali and myself and other staff that just, you can’t get over that hump and it just could, then it keeps happening. Because now you’re just sensitive about it. So now everything becomes an issue and now you lose trust and people don’t want to work with you. And now you’re really competent at your job.

You’re good at it, but you’re just hard to work with relationally. So to me, the soft skills, what you’re talking about, Macy, that is what can set you apart. it’s hard to find people that are really, high level of that, so it’s good stuff. so let’s talk a little bit about, Developing, Younger student, or younger coaches, younger trainers, athletic trainers, what are skill sets we’re talking about a little bit now, but what do you see, what do you look for in somebody that’s, hey, I want to get into this profession, what do you look for in them?

[00:38:44] Macy: Yeah, one, what their motivation is and maybe what their values are, I think what I was talking about, I don’t necessarily. Wanna look when someone’s early on like exactly what their skill set is versus the foundation they’re building those skills on. If they don’t have the foundation of a patient first or, a student athlete first kind of mentality and maybe their first goal or first, thought when you ask them why is to be a part of, Texas athletics or whatever the case is, if it’s not patient centered and patient driven, that needs to be developed first, because that’s going to be what you’re building everything else on.

Because if you have all these skill sets, but you don’t have the trust, you don’t have the respect or the professionalism or the communication skills, none of those skill sets are going to matter to the people you’re trying to share them with because they don’t have the peace where they respect what you’re saying.

So I think number one, you have to work on the foundation before you can build the skill sets on top of it. So that’s one of the first things I look for. and then being able to develop the other skill sets of understanding how to communicate. Ask questions, be able to take criticism and understand that the conflicts aren’t personal, that it’s all to make sure we’re bringing out the best in everyone we’re around and ourselves, because if we’re expecting certain things of our student athletes, you should be emulating that.

So I think if you have a good foundation, and you know your values, your core beliefs, and what moves you, what motivates you, what inspires you, We can teach skill set and we can develop everyone learns differently. We will work around whatever it takes to develop and teach these young athletic trainers or inspiring athletic trainers to.

Learn the skill sets they need to be an athletic trainer.

[00:40:35] Donnie: Yeah, I love you said, like athlete or patient center first, right? Because I’m gonna rant for just a second. Like when I’m looking at resumes of some of these younger coaches and professionals and they go on and on about how awesome they are.

And I’m like, We want to know you’re good, right? But we really want to know you’re servant oriented. Like you’re going to come in and you’re going to take, I always say on a resume, you need to bridge like whatever your values and competencies are. How do you bridge that to the job that you’re applying for and show them that you can apply those in a way that’s going to help everybody win, not just.

Hey, I’m awesome. I’m really outgoing. I’m a go getter. I’m a motivator, whatever they put in. It’s, it cracks me up, some of the words. And they’re just, I know they’re just trying, but you’ve got it, like you said, you’ve got to bridge it to the, athlete of how you’ll help them. trying to think, if you were going to say, this is when I know somebody’s ready for their first job, what would you say they would need the most to be ready to take that first job?

[00:41:49] Macy: It’s

hard to pick just one, but I honestly, maybe too broad, but I think confidence is a big piece. Because you can’t look to other people to make decisions for you when you get to that point Not confidence in terms of I know everything i’m not going to ask for help.

[00:42:11] Donnie: That’s clear. That’s good Yeah But

[00:42:12] Macy: confidence is in if someone’s asking you to do something That maybe you haven’t read in a book or you haven’t practiced yet Or you no longer have an assistant or a mentor you’re working directly with to ask or to guide you Are you well, do you have the skills to figure it out and make that decision and stand by it and then explain why?

You If you’re making a decision and you can’t explain why, don’t make that decision, because you should know why you are deciding every decision you make, in my opinion, especially in the medical side of things. You have to know those things.

[00:42:42] Donnie: Dude, this is it. I, you just, I’ve never said this before, you just, you, did, you made it, you articulated it so well, I want to, capture it.

The best. interviewers I’ve seen have the ability, doesn’t matter your age, it’s, it is confidence. Here’s what, here’s the way I’ve seen it. They can answer a question with brevity and great depth. They can really speak to, if you ask about an injury prevention or a rehab, the ones that ramble on and on, like you don’t know what you’re saying and they lack confidence, but the ones that don’t say nothing and there’s no depth to it.

You’re not confident either, like you answered it, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about either. So it’s like you got, it’s like that balance of, brevity and like depth, but you do that in a way that you just, you’re able to articulate that with confidence. It’s so good. I love this topic about the younger generation of coaches and professions.

Right now, we’re seeing, I’m going to go to an administrative conference here in a couple of weeks, or actually next week. the burnout is super high in sports, especially in our roles. work life balance, burnout, What do you do to keep yourself from being, like, just mentally, give us some strategies, work life balance, to stay fresh, to stay, because it seems like you’re always on to me.

[00:44:10] Macy: Yeah, I think back to what we said at the beginning, I value this job and what I can do in this environment so much. And the student athletes I’m working for and to bring out the best in them, I have to be functioning at my best. And if I’m asking certain things of them, I have to be practicing them as well.

I think for me, I, it started after college. I was. exhausted my whole four years of college with athletic training, balancing clinical hours with soccer, doing an under or doing a minor in Spanish. I felt burnout all the time. And I was like, I’m not going to let this continue. So part of what I did just in job applications is I have only applied to grad assistantships and schools that I was going to enjoy.

What I was going to enjoy learning, I was going to enjoy doing, afterwards, it’s like I’m only applying to schools and accepting roles that match with what my values are, and I think that’s been very helpful, in the interviewing process, being willing to ask what the role looks like, what, the expectations are, and then have your Know what your boundaries are and verify that they’re going to respect them when you get there.

just knowing those things. but for me in terms of outside of life, I just always make sure I have things that I value, things that I’m grateful for, hobbies that I enjoy doing, and then also just trying to do like an internal check in at the end of every day or every week where you’re, surveying how you’re feeling and what kind of level you’re at in terms of energy and recovery and whatnot because recovery can be a little bit hard to mentally and physically when you’re traveling a lot and when you’re on every single day and maybe when you’re comparing to a friend that might have every weekend off, it’s going to be different.

So Comparison is the thief of joy. You have to compare yourself to who your best self is, and that’s kind of it. If you value this job, you know what cost it comes at, so where can you make up for it? How can you, help bring out the best in yourself, but you have to know what those things are that inspire you, that bring you joy, having fun, doing things that are fun, and having a community, I think.

Those things really center you and keep your values at the forefront. and help you be aware when you’ve gone too far, maybe the other direction. so I think that’s part of it is being aware before you feel so deep into the burnout that there’s nothing you can do at that point kind of thing.

[00:46:44] Donnie: Yeah, I’ve heard it said like you’re either a river or a reservoir, right?

And so if you’re just a reservoir and all you do is give out, But you never fill yourself back up, right? Then you’re just depleted. So you’ve got to, to your point, there’s got to be, if you’re giving out to people, especially like you do, you admit that’s high level capacity, especially when you’re in season.

Maybe it’s hard to do it in season, but, when you do get time, you need to pour back into yourself, whether it’s a hobby or some downtime or, laughter, having fun, getting outdoors, having something, maybe, I think a lot of times it’s just, Something to get your mind off work, right? And you nailed it.

Again, you’ve, this has been great today. Just your ability to communicate and hold boundaries in place is critical. Because what I have found, I really struggle with this horribly. Early on in my career, I could not say no to people and just always taking on more. And then really the person who’s responsible for burnout.

It’s not my head coach or my boss or my coworkers. I need to look in the mirror because it was me. I can’t articulate and say, Hey, I need some time to myself. And so just always staying on. And next thing you’re running ragged and you’re not enjoying your job. The job you did love now has become a job you don’t look forward to anymore because you can’t say no and put boundaries down healthy boundaries.

[00:48:10] Macy: I think I felt that way in college. So it felt a little bit more of a loss of control, right? Cause you’re just like, you’re a student athlete. You are a student, you are doing all these things that are laid out for you and you just got to show up and get them done and just like truck away at it.

Once I graduated, I was like, Oh, I have a choice now. Yeah. I can help decide what’s next and decide where my boundaries are. So I think, yeah, that is one thing I decided to, stick to early on. And obviously there are areas where you have to compromise, and it’s not like everything’s perfect by any means, but I think if you’re filling your cup up more than you’re getting, drained, then you’re gonna be in an okay balance spot.

I think finding something that inspires you is huge. You can’t really feel bad when you’re inspired. You feel like energy is coming into you when you find things that inspire you. So I think that’s a piece of it as well. Just making sure in roles where a lot of support staff, you’re in those roles and you’re very selfless.

Like your whole goal is about Taking care of the student athlete and helping the team perform at its highest capacity. We get too lost in maybe that selflessness that we don’t remember that it is still okay to take care of yourself and that’s not considered selfish. So I think that’s the balance. Is the big thing.

Yeah,

[00:49:30] Donnie: I’m curious. I’ve got a fun question for you here and I’m gonna ask you the question. I’ll give you my thoughts on it. But so if you had a crystal ball 5, 10, 15 years from now Where do you see the profession going? So just think on that for a second, but They’re talking a lot about today mental health of our athletes, man Mental health of our head coaches like when are they gonna look at that?

obviously we see it with our you know With suicide rates going up, which is horrible, they’re really starting to come to a forefront, but I just don’t know, with athletes today, it just feels like it’s becoming so more, so much more complex, and there’s just so much stuff always pulling on them.

To your point, we can only handle so much. but it’ll be interesting to see where, Sport goes in general with our head coaches, the student athlete, mental health, but there’s, also a mental health piece for our head coaches when I’ve seen it with our coaches over the years, just, there’s a lot on their plate.

but back to our question, five, 10, 15 years, crystal ball, what do you see in the future

[00:50:36] Macy: for athletic departments in general, for sports medicine? What do you,

[00:50:40] Donnie: yeah, I would say just, sports med, like, where do you see you guys going here in the future?

[00:50:47] Macy: I know a direction I like hope it goes. I know right now like you’re saying there’s really high burnout probably in athletic departments in general, but I know for athletic training in

[00:50:56] Donnie: general for sure

[00:50:57] Macy: And I think there’s been difficulty for people hiring athletic trainers.

I think a piece of it is a big piece of it is always going to come down to the money piece of it, cost of living, money, compensation, when you know all of your time is going to be spent at work. So it’s finding, people aren’t accepting many roles in collegiate athletics anymore as athletic trainers because there’s so many other fields that aren’t requiring that same level of, hard, hard work where it’s, you’re over time.

Constantly. So I think it’s unless you’re passionate about that piece together, athletics and athletic training, then sometimes people want to take on, like an orth, like an orthopedic clinic or a P. T. clinic and stuff like that, which is great opportunity for athletic training. So now if there’s more roles for athletic trainers and they offer more quality of life.

And maybe a higher salary people and weekends off, they might go there instead. So I think hopefully in 5 years with the master’s program changing that. maybe a little bit of the value has changed as well and understanding that it isn’t just money but it’s just other forms of maybe appreciation or resources for the staff to use to feel comfortable staying somewhere for a long period of time, whether, it’s, maternity, paternity leave type stuff.

I’m not sure exactly what all universities give out and those types of things, but I do, think it’s been hard for athletic trainers to want to stay in a collegiate setting for long periods of time because of the, outside of life or outside of work life. yeah. hopefully we find that balance in the next 10 to 15 years so that we’re able to offer a little bit more resources, a little bit more support, and also maybe gain a little bit more understanding of why, so that we can have that ability to build up that side for our college seniors.

[00:53:00] Donnie: Yeah, I mean I’ve worked with, Not just you, but I think training for years and I’ll never forget Macy one time. I read this article on strength coaches and why do they pay so low? It’s because 100 people apply for the job when it’s open, but I think, it’s getting to a tipping point where it’s getting harder and harder to find people.

To work these jobs is because they don’t pay great, right? So there’s got to be a change in value. and there’s got to be a change in at some point, the work life piece of it. And I’m not talking about in season. That’s, always a challenge because you’re always traveling and doing something, but the, pay scale, the value of what you guys bring to the table, because dude, if you guys, this is just being crazy, but if all y’all decided Hey, we’re going to go on strike and good luck to everybody.

Guess what? We wouldn’t be doing anything because medically you couldn’t move forward because you’ve got to have safe space and for these kids Today to be taken good care of and you guys from what I’ve seen you guys go above and beyond To make sure these kids are taken care of at a high level and that does not come from people just like throwing you know, caution to the wind.

You guys have to love your jobs. You have to care about the people. You got to be invested to do that at a high level and feel like that they’re in a good spot. yeah, it’s going to be interesting to see what happens with a career path, especially with all the stats coming out on it, what’s happening.

It’s not just across the U. S. as a whole, the stats are going up, people just getting out of the profession.

[00:54:40] Macy: Yeah, I think they’re starting to do a lot of research on why. So hopefully, we can find the, major reasons why and try and mend those.

[00:54:50] Donnie: best professional development course book you’ve taken ever or in a lot and recently, what would you recommend?

[00:55:00] Macy: recently I’ve been doing. Just a lot of reading on articles and looking at different courses that exist. But the last one I took actually that I’m actually working on right now is like a stress, sleep and recovery course. Not directly for sports medicine, but something we work with every single day to just gain some knowledge off of that.

[00:55:22] Donnie: Where do they find that at?

[00:55:24] Macy: That’s Precision Nutrition. Okay,

[00:55:25] Donnie: cool.

[00:55:26] Macy: Yeah, so I’m in the middle of that right now, but I’ve really enjoyed that because it’s just a different perspective. I think a lot of the continuing education I enjoy doing is giving me different perspectives on things I’m already doing and then ways to develop those expertise, too.

like I did the Health and Wellness Coaching Certificate, Certification, and that went in a lot on like motivational interviewing and stuff like that. So a lot of that was like, Oh, I can utilize these tools to like communicate better with my athletes. And we were talking about habits earlier, understand health coaches, how they develop habits with people.

I can help use that those tools to develop habits in my athletes, even though this isn’t, an athletic training course. So most of the most recent course I went to was the, or a conference was the SEC medical conference a few months ago, but I haven’t been to one recently to give Oh, this was, the best biggest one.

So

[00:56:23] Donnie: yeah, still exploring. Yeah, you made a good point. I, find that some of my best ideas and creative processes come from outside my, my, Job itself. So that’s a good point. just some quick fun questions here as we wrap up. So Austin, Texas, best coffee shop in Austin.

[00:56:42] Macy: Okay, what you got? Then if everyone goes then I’m gonna be mad, but it’s LT Gray on 12th Street.

I love LT Gray. It’s right down the street from tennis.

[00:56:52] Donnie: So how do you spell this?

[00:56:54] Macy: E L space Tigre, T I G R E, L T G R E.

[00:56:58] Donnie: L T G R E, and it’s, what’s good about their coffee?

[00:57:01] Macy: I don’t know, I think, so when I first moved here, I was on the east side of Austin, and they had this small, Like cottage style coffee shop with this big outdoor area and it was like never really over populated There was never a ton of people there, but it was on my way to work.

So I stopped there all the time I loved the coffee They’ve moved to a new location on 12th street, but and I don’t live on the east side anymore So I don’t get to go over there But it was like if I was going to go get a coffee in the morning, that’s where I was going I loved it. I

[00:57:29] Donnie: gotta do it. It’s on my list.

Yeah,

[00:57:30] Macy: there you go

[00:57:30] Donnie: best restaurant for you, austin, texas What you got for us?

[00:57:33] Macy: Okay, I love this restaurant called nasha And it is an Indian Tex Mex fusion restaurant, which I know probably sounds a little odd, but I love it. They make tikka masala enchiladas. I’m

[00:57:48] Donnie: going to eat right after this.

[00:57:50] Macy: And I don’t know what it is about it.

I love Indian food. I love Tex Mex. So combine them. I love it.

[00:57:58] Donnie: if you could go back and tell a young Macy, give her the best piece of advice to her starting out, what would you say to her?

[00:58:08] Macy: Trust yourself. I would say, trusting the decisions you’re making, trusting the confidence that you’re trying to build, that it is, it’s the right direction, enough to get through all of this, just, what you’ve been learning in school, what you learn in your experiences.

Is valuable and you will be able to apply it. So just keep going.

[00:58:32] Donnie: I like it. if our listeners want to contact you, reach out, connect, meet for coffee. What’s the best way to reach out and connect with you? What would you, what do you got?

[00:58:42] Macy: I have, I do have LinkedIn, so I have LinkedIn,

[00:58:46] Donnie: if they hit you over at LinkedIn?

[00:58:48] Macy: Probably, here, what about, my Instagram is Macy Franklin. There you go. So that’ll probably be the easiest way. my email, macy. franklin at athletics. utexas. edu.

[00:58:59] Donnie: We’ll put all this in the show notes. Oh, perfect. So if any of our listeners want to reach out, they can.

[00:59:03] Macy: And that’s about it, those are the, About all I use.

[00:59:06] Donnie: awesome. Macy, thank you. I know you guys are, you’re right in the middle of the season, so thank you for making time. I know you’re busy. Thank you. Probably off today, right?

[00:59:15] Macy: Yeah, recovery.

[00:59:18] Donnie: Off day, right? It’s always, it’s off day, but you’re still working. Exactly. But I don’t have

[00:59:23] Macy: to go like outside and stand out in the heat at practice today.

So it’s a win. That is a win. It is an off day. Especially in Austin right now.

[00:59:29] Donnie: But Macy, thank you so much, for being on the show. Incredible conversation. Definitely a lot to glean there for our listeners. hey, that’s it for the team behind the team podcast. And we will catch you on the flip side.

Hook em horns. Thanks so much for tuning in and listening. To this episode of the team behind the team podcast for future episodes, go to iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast, or Stitcher. We definitely want to keep having great guests on the show and great content. So if you have a moment, please go to iTunes, leave a rating and review and let us know how we’re doing.

I’m Donnie Maib and thanks so much for tuning

in.