E2 | Kassi Hardee: Sports Medicine

Welcome to the team behind the teen podcast. I’m your host, Donny, mate. This is the monthly
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show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to ethic, performance.
Strength, conditioning. Sports Medicine. Sport Science. Mental Health and wellness and
sports nutrition.
Welcome back to the show. This is the team behind the team podcast
and we have a special guest for you guys today. We have Kasey
Hardy on the show. Kasey works in sports medicine here at Texas. And I know
I’m excited about having you on the show today. Kasey, say hello to everybody. Hi, everyone. How y’all doing?
So I know Kasey. I’ve worked with Kasey not directly, but just
we’ve been around each other for since 2011 when you got here. So I know. I was looking forward to having you
on the show. So as we kick off this episode, Kasey, go ahead and
let’s this is take a moment. Introduce yourself. What’s your title, your role at Texas and
kind of gives a little history about how you got here. Yeah. All right. Also, like Donizetti. My name’s Kasey
Hardy. I’m an associate athletic trainer here at the University of Texas. Currently, my
my main role at Texas is the athletic trainer for the Texas softball team. I also help out with rowing in the
fall semester. I’ve been in Texas now for eight years on staff. I’m actually a product
of the program, though. So back in from 0 5 2 0 8. I was
a student in the program as well. So I worked with some other sports then. But on staff I’ve worked, like
I said, was stop on rowing currently. Previously I was with swimming and diving, women’s swimming and diving for six
years. And I helped out with women’s tennis for a couple of years there in between as well. I started
here at University of Texas back in 0 3. My path to athletic training, I
would say, is not the typical one. Most athletic trainers have a story, as I call it. You know, they either
toward their ACL in high school or has had a significant injury when they were playing sports and
they met met their athletic trainer or their physical therapist. They kind of learned about the world, learned about what it entailed.
And, you know, perhaps they weren’t able to continue athletically. So they they join into this world of sports medicine.
Not the case for me. I did have a few injuries in high school, nothing super severe. Thankfully, I did work
with an athletic trainer. But frankly, at the time and I have since gone back and apologized for this, I didn’t even
really realize the profession, as it were at the time. I was
thinking about this as we were coming in here, the building. We’re actually recording this. And right now is where I first learned about athletic training
here in the University of Texas campus. Kind of weird. It was. It is a finished class. Yeah, Spanish
class of all things. I was on, I think my fourth or fifth major at Texas. I had a lot of
career searching developments that I did when I first came to university. I had
had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I started as a preventative
measures medicine major here, undeclared and natural sciences. And then I bounced around from biology
to education to economics to Spanish. And then I met a good friend of mine. Her name was Cara
in a Spanish class. And I was kind of telling her that I couldn’t find something that really fit all the
all the things I wanted. And I was explaining to her, you know, I like solving problems.
I like helping others. I really like the outdoors. And of course, I like sports and competition. And
serendipitously, I guess she happened to be in the athletic training program at Texas and told me a little bit about it.
I went to my academic counselor and the kind of the rest was history from there. So I signed up for the courses applied
to the program. And now I’ve been here for a really long time. There was ever a moment
in that process where you like. Okay. You know, you talked about switching majors, I think
four or five times in you. Was there ever a point where you like, this is madness? This is what I want to do.
Did you ever reach a point? It kind of just. Bland a little bit. I mean, it definitely built
up. There are moments, though, all the time where I recognize that I’m doing
something I love and something that I should be doing. And a lot of times this is probably true for a lot of athletic trainers.
But a lot of times that comes from the moment someone you’ve been working with from, you know, their lowest of lows
from an athletic perspective then achieves greatness. Right. You know, I’ve had athletes
when national titles individually and on a team perspective and you athletes start again.
I’ve seen that they’re at their worst with regards to sport and watched them achieve that. Those moments
really, you really do feel it. And then, of course, the moments where you have parents and coaches
and and athletes common thanking you for whatever you might have gotten them through, whatever whatever
trial or tribulation, those moments, I definitely go home. Telma has been telling family
about like this was a good day. So your thought, a loan, that path. Did you ever
think about going clinical at all in therapy? Did you do that every pop up or no? Yeah.
You know, I think a lot of athletic trainers in their education process
have to kind of make that decision. You find out about it early on that, you know, athletic training is not
the only thing you can do. There’s physical therapy and you can be a physician’s assistant
chiropractor. Go to med school. There’s a lot of different kind of veins
of sports medicine in the medical profession, healthcare, profession, nursing,
etc. that you can do. And for me, along the pathway, most athletic trainers you’re considering
one thing, you know, we don’t like to talk about it, but a salary you’re considering. Time wanted what it’s
what kind of time commitment you’re looking at. And then family and what your goals are family wise. And if you
can make that work life balance work. But hopefully and this is how it was for me, you get experiences
and little opportunities with these different, different professions to see if
in addition to just, you know, the exterior pieces, if the day to day of those things sounds like fun.
And for me, after grad school, I moved up to Syracuse. All my husband
finished grad school and was given the opportunity work at a physical therapy clinic, also
working as an outreach athletic trainer for a high school for a group of high schools that a school district consider ACU’s.
And that was kind of my interaction with the physical therapy clinic side. And I worked with some athletic trainers
who went then went to get their PTO or PTA degrees
to work in that setting. And it was definitely a great experience, but one where I realized, you know, that being
a part of a team and traveling and being part of part of the games and part of practices
and being outdoors and having kind of that dynamic work environment was really something that was really
important to me and not something I felt like I could get in a clinic. So, yeah, you’d be at the same place pretty much
all day. We can and we can. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Now, I agree. I think that’s one thing
I remember kind of similar to you when I was trying to figure out what I
wanted to do. One of my big things was I just don’t want to wear a suit tie.
A hey, dress it up. And I knew if I was coaching and being around athletes at least
get the wear a lot more relaxed gear. And, you know, I like the spontaneity and the different schedules
we have from day to day. You know, yeah, I would be saved. Yeah. Every day is a new day. Right.
I mean, I see you guys work, too. And it’s like there’s new challenges. There’s new situations. You
may use those skill sets again. Again. But I like the spontaneity of our careers, certainly
stiffly a plus. Let’s talk a little bit. Now let’s go
a little bit more, probably in your expertise of injuries in return to play a little bit. And
I personally like. What is your approach philosophy on dealing
with an athlete has an entry and then getting them back up to speed to play again? Kind of. You can
use any kind of generic examples of of whether it’s a D or a shoulder or whatever
kind of what’s your philosophy approach with return to play. Yeah. Well, you know, without getting too specific into,
you know, certain body parts and certain types of injuries, I think first and foremost you have to kind of
visualize the big picture both for yourself as a professional, but also for your patient or your student
athlete and make sure they recognize, you know, where we are in the grand scheme of things. And mainly that
it’s going to be OK. Because, you know, one thing, as athletic trainers, we see people at their worst.
A lot of times. And it’s really important. And my focus is always to stay focused on positivity
and recognizing, recognizing. Yeah. That the mind, if you see
it and believe it, you can do it and you can get there. And yes, there are physiological barriers that are gonna stop
that from happening. There’s only you know, we we can do some really great things, but there’s only so much we
can do with the body. But making sure you see your athlete as a as a whole. And I
oftentimes spend a lot of time at the beginning parts of injuries, recognizing and listening to the athlete to see
what measurement of success looks like to them. What is a successful outcome? Is
it back in to. HAYES Is it back before, you know, the big competition in two
weeks against our arch rival and making sure you recognize where they’re coming
from as you’re approaching the issue and no matter how lofty their goals might be, somehow
you’ll meet them in the middle there and make sure keep everyone on the same page and on track. But first
and foremost, yeah. You know, immediate recognition. You want to make sure recognizing there’s an injury and and it’s
significant. So you don’t allow, you know, further injury to occur. So protecting that from further complicating
the issue. And then from there you go straight into a team approach, really, which is what I love about
working here at Texas. First, your team is just, you know, the athletic trainer and the student athlete. Usually
the coach is going to play in there, too, just because they’re they care about their team. And then you go from
there. It’s fairly simple. Run in the middle. We got you know, we’re going to hold them out, work on getting them stronger,
wants their pain and swelling. That sort of thing is resolved, assuming you’re talking about a musculoskeletal
thing. And then if so, you reach out to the rest of your team. Right. Not just
referrals to the physician or maybe your orthopedics, but also to the other people who are going to impact that
athlete’s life. So our strength and conditioning coach, you know, they’re down, but they’re not out a lot of
time. So what else can we do to keep them in the weight room and keep them a part of the team,
but still protect that that injured area? That injured part? Same with our dietitians. You know, there’s a role that they
can play, especially in the early stages of injury support to better healing and to and
that goes the same case with post surgically, too. There’s a lot of stuff they can do there.
And then we even bring in some of our other specialists as well with regards to sports science and those things, because they have
a lot of baseline data on our student athletes. So when we do have an injury, we know what we’re trying to get back to, too.
So, I mean, there’s there’s a lot of people involved at a you know, at an institution like Texas. We have a lot
of resources that are blessed with a lot of great things to work with there. But I would say for sure, first and foremost,
as I focus on the positive and start with some attainable short term goals and then move forward
from there, keeping the athlete focused on getting better and not focused on unimportant, you know, the unfortunate
situation. I love what you said earlier about keeping the big picture. And
I think that what want and what I love about that is I know in our profession
and strength conditioning, you’ll see that some oftentimes
sports medicine and strength conditioning don’t always mesh well. Right. They have different philosophies.
Whereas what I hear you’re saying and what I see at Texas, which I love, is, hey, what’s the big picture
here? First and foremost, it’s the athlete’s health and well-being. You know, getting
them back, it’s not about, you know, having different beliefs or opinions, but it’s about
collaboration. Right. And that’s kind of what this podcast really we’re trying to work on, as I hate
today, the modern and relevant trend in sports performance
when performance is just a team approach. And if you win, we win. If we win, you
win. We all win together. The athlete gets better and then we win more championships. So the other day
you said it right. It’s it’s all about the big, big picture. Yeah. You know, and I learned a lot from
a mentor of mine at the University of Virginia. She was kind of the first person that really highlighted.
Yeah. Like like you alluded to this kind of historical tendency of athletic trainers and strength
coaches, maybe not getting along, having a little bit of turf war between one or the other.
And yeah, I mean, that’s got to be one of the first things you you nipped in the bud there because they
are a team. They have the same goals and they work so much better together
than against each other. So that has never been a problem here at Texas, which has been great. And like I said, I’ve
I’ve learned the importance of that early on. But, yeah, big pictures, things for athletes.
You know, sometimes and sometimes injuries do happen at the worst possible time.
But just, you know, making sure the athlete recognizes in the grand scheme of everything, it’s it’s gonna be
OK. Right. I know you. I know you want to. I know you want to pitch against, you know, fill in the blank.
Rival. I won’t name any names, but we’re gonna get through this. More important that you’re there for the postseason
than you are for one of these regular season games. And just, you know, being able to level with them about that and recognizing
I want to win just as much as you do, but we’re gonna do it safely and with your best interests in mind. You and
I love to. You said that. I love that. That phrase. It’s gonna be okay, because,
I mean, so many athletes need to hear that. And, you know, it’s, you know, maybe a little cheesy,
you know. You know, coach, somehow you got to have a great attitude, all that. It’s kind of cliche and cheesy. But,
you know, I think. Having a trainer like yourself who’s positive,
because I think that’s a big part of the injury, too, like you said, it’s just keeping their mind in a good state
of how they what’s their perspective on where they’re at and in keeping them grounded. That’s going to be
critical in building momentum to get them back even quicker. Like you say, it’s a big piece to have somebody like you.
You telling them that? Yeah. You see the mind do great things for you know, you can if you can get around,
take it just a quick moment and talk about, you know, talking about with just injury prevention, right?
Yeah. What’s what’s some practical steps? You know, you talk about how to
help athletes stay healthy and to prevent things from from happening. Bad things. Yeah. One of our one
of our coaches. He loves the phrase prevention is easier than the cure. And I
love that he loves that phrase, frankly, because it only helps my cause every day. He’s usually
repeating that mantra during pre warm ups or pre practice where our athletes
are out on the fences and they’re working with Theravance and working with the younger transue in their shoulder.
Mobility warm up before they throw that whole warm up to throw kind of thing, not throw to warm up.
So yeah. Perin and it’s very true. Prevention is so much easier than the cure and it’s not hard if you
can build it in the right way. As much as I would love all 20 of my rostered athletes to come see me
every day thirty or forty five minutes a day to do some preventative mobility work in between classes,
in study hall, in social life and practice as just not realistic sometimes unless they are
injured and they know they have to. As a means of, you know, being able to get back onto the
field. But building it into practice and again with a strength coach, building it in with warm
ups and building it, and with some of this stability work they do in the weight room, because that’s already a practice that’s built in
to their week. Our strength coach was softball, mal builds and core stability
work. She builds and shoulder stability work that she and I worked together on. And she’ll come to me and ask like, hey, can we change
this up? Or, you know, they’ve been doing this one for a while. Is there something else you want to be doing? And I’m at every every
lift and every conditioning workout, too, so I’m seeing what they’re building. And so if they’re getting that with Mel,
then that might not be what we do before practice on any given day. So but when it’s built in, even if it’s
five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, if it’s every day that compounds and that’s stability.
You see over the months, you know, from September to December or through the fall semester,
you see that mobility and you see that stability really impacting how they move
in the weight room and how they move on the field. And it’s great to see that. And then, of course, we always
like to double check that with objective measures, too. And that’s when we bring in sports science and we compare our August
numbers to our December numbers and make sure what we’re seeing is actually showing up in numbers soon.
Good question. You said something there that kind of made me think. How is your
job changed? And now you’ve got a noise. So a strength condition.
Coaches, we see a lot of data from technology. It has to be changing.
Kind of how you do your job a little bit is can you speak to that little? Is that is that change over the last 10 years? Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I’m a numbers person. I’m a total research nerd. I love
this implementation of sports science. And I’ve watched it slowly, as, you know, slowly squeeze
into the sports world. And it has started kind of with strength and conditioning. It seems to be at that level.
Most of the places that I know that are incorporating sports science, their strength coaches are the ones looking at these values
and altering and individualizing workouts. And I think that’s the main way. It’s really changing as it’s allowed
for individualization in an otherwise kind of fast paced
set, you know, situation where you’ve got practices every day and you’re kind of just rolling with it through the season for, you know, season’s
over. But it I mean, the amount of data that we can accumulate in a 15 minute or five
minute for in some instances session with a sports scientist is incredibly
helpful, both for the strength coach. And then I’m looking at if I have, you know, people who are predisposed because
I’ve had previous injuries or I’m looking at numbers that really just don’t add up and we’re trained we don’t
have the perfect algorithm yet for that to know someone’s at risk for injury. Obviously, if we did,
we wouldn’t let him practice that day. But we’re working on finding those imbalances and saying, you know, soandso
really needs to we really need to get working on their hips stability or their ankle mobility just isn’t it?
We need it. We need to find ways to improve that so we don’t get there. And like I said, definitely
not a perfect algorithm yet. If it were, we’d be we’d be making the big bucks. Right. But
I think it’s I think it’s a it’s on its way up for sure. And there’s still so many
great things we have yet to uncover. Yellow. You made me think that old quarter ounce of prevention
is worth what, a pound of cure. So it does. And the technology is
it’s kind of I wouldn’t say that it’s making decisions for us, but it’s
more informed. Right. You have more information to make, hopefully a little bit
more specific decision that you individualize it. Yeah, because everybody’s so different. Well, an
enlisted not leads. Want that data? They like to know. I mean, why
are we doing this testing? And what are we? What am I wearing this band for this? You know, wearable for, etc. But
then when they see the feedback from it, they’re intrigued by two because it’s it’s them on paper. So it’s
it’s something that in the right setting, too, you can use to motivate them to hold
accountable and to encourage athletes. You know, hey, we’re seeing these things. And here let me show you
that education piece from a injury prevention and from an injury real a bit rehabilitation
standpoint is huge. And these objective numbers and data are really
helping foster that education even more so. And that’s that’s really helpful. That’s good
stuff. Guess he had another negative vein for you to kind of touch
on. So now think big picture again with sports
and for example, going through a long season. Right. Would you agree
that the season is a grind? Not just right now, but also coaches,
everybody on the athletes, right? Absolutely. And the one thing that, you know, just my time here, Texas,
I know you see it as well. You mentioned it, but the resources in and just the philosophies that you
guys have of a holistic approach to recovery and keeping
athletes healthy. Can you talk about maybe some of the things, modalities,
things that you like to use with your athletes to kind of keep them keep them fresh and keep them recovers?
Yeah, for sure. I think I think you touched on it a little bit. Recovery
is a huge industry, frankly. There’s a lot of things
that, you know, they they claim to be able to do and that we are finding seemingly as is possible.
Definitely research still needing to catch up there on a on a lot of these modalities. And frankly, in the
world of sports, sometimes we don’t we don’t give research time to catch up because we’ve got to get on the next biggest
thing, next biggest, best thing. But I think there are ways to make those informed
decisions. Even just this last semester, our team did like a mini research study of sorts
with our sample size of 20 looking at some of those recovery tools, infrared
gear and wearables and stuff like that that we’ve been kind of playing with. And there’s, you know, so cool.
Yeah, you see our athletes like it, too. There’s there’s subjective components there and people
kind of sometimes gawk at the placebo effect. And if that’s all you’re going off of, then
then you know, what’s the point? And I mean, the placebo effect has a name because it is a things
real. But the quick thing and I’m I’m a science and numbers and objectivity. So I like
proof to outside of the subjective. And that’s been what’s fun about this is I’ve been working with Travis, our sports
scientist, and we’re finding numbers again, trends and things like that. We’re not necessarily
doing full IRP studies with statistically significant data
collection, although we are finding that. But yeah, there’s just a lot of a lot of areas that
can go to. We’ve come a long way, so to speak, from, you know, the cold tub’s and contrast Barths
and, you know, a little bit less holistic, but still just as important, in my opinion, for that sort of thing is
just you’re you’re kind of old school mobility, mobility sessions, body work,
building those things. I mean, it takes a lot to keep an athlete in in gear
and in shape for everyday for practice. And they have to own that just as much as we have to build
it into their process, too. But yeah, there’s I mean, the list is
endless. I don’t really know where to start or where to stop when talking about that kind of thing. Like you said, I think because,
you know, every sport’s different, every athlete’s different. And so you got to get buy
in from the athlete. And they’ve got they’re really stewards of their own bodies. You know, we’re
just servants’, right? We’re serving them and providing services. But they’ve got to have a passion
and a vision for it. Kind of catch the catch the bug, so to speak, like,
hey, when you feel better, you’ll play, but you’ll stay healthier. Coaches to be healthy, happier or you’ll be happier.
Everybody’s happier. So just buying into that is as a philosophy is good for them, too.
Yeah. And all it takes is, you know, one leader on the team or, you know, someone who’s really talented on the
team to buy into that. And I’ve had that on almost every team I worked with, something that I’ve been
trying to encourage them to do. Had one or two people buy in and see results for the next
the next athletes coming up. And, you know, the freshman looking and saying, what is it that they’re doing that I’m not it’s those little extra
things like Kasey’s telling them to do it, those little extra things that coaches have asked them to do before and after practice when
no one’s looking. Right. Champions are built. When no one’s looking. It’s always a common phrase. And it’s true.
I mean, you have to do the little extra things and catch the bug. I like that. I
hadn’t heard that before me. Now think you see you. So it’s cool to see a freshman
come in that they don’t really do anything. And then hopefully by their senior year they’re doing, like you said,
all the little things that stay healthy and stay in a good state. So it’s pretty cool to see. Yeah. Sometimes they just don’t
even know, you know, they’re there. Weren’t exposed to things like that. That’s this is a. A university with a lot
of resources and a lot of experts all working in one place, and that individualisation
again is really a big facet of texas’ success. I think
from a health and wellness perspective, it’s good. Kind of shifting gears,
this is OK. So this I got another question for you. This is one of my favorite topics.
So with the role you play, you have me in your role, you’re very,
very close, connected to the head coach, the sport coaches, right? For better.
For worse. Yes, that’s right. It can be good and bad. Yeah.
So you’re in direct contact communication with those sport coaches. Just give us what have you done over
the years to build good rapport and relationships with your sport coaches? Have you done that because.
Because I’ve seen that. And it seems like you’ve got good relationships with them. Have you done that? Well, yeah, thankfully, I’ve been
around great people at Texas. But yes, notoriously the athletic trainer coach relationship
is we’ll just call it unique. It’s it’s from the outside
looking in or from like a daily transactional relationship. You can see why it might be tense at times
where you are the bearer of bad news. Most times a lot of coaches joke that they cringe
when they see our our phone number on caller I.D. or when we when we walk into their office, you know, you get the whole God.
What now? Because, you know, we’re bringing more most often, more often than not bad
news versus good news. I try to highlight the good news any chance I get, but it’s usually so and so
sick. So-and-so’s out. You know, this and that. So I try to one of minimize
the time I have to do that. But, you know, stuff happens. But I also
think the reason I’ve been successful with the coaches that I’ve worked with is because once you get past
that outside looking in kind of impression and recognize that
I’m just as I care just as much about the success of the team as I do
just coming out from a different vantage point, then you recognize I mean, a coach’s job is to push the athletes to be
their very best and to win an athletic trainers. First and foremost, job is to protect the athletes
from harm. But, you know, most of us really like winning, too. We most of us are former
athletes. You know, after a game, after a loss, I’m probably one
of the most upset people in the locker room. Whether I show it or not, I’m pretty competitive. So we’re on the same team.
We’re reaching for the same goal. It’s just you know, I have a few other things I have to
put for first and foremost, they’re so recognizing that I think is huge in my coaches know
how much I want to beat certain teams and how much I like winning. So they recognize I’m not I’m not holding someone
unless it’s really in their best interests. And their best interests is in the team’s best interests. Because
you lose that person for a longer time and you have a bigger issue on your hands. And then secondarily,
communication strategies has been something as a young professional kind of growing into this
this role, I’ve learned you have to find everyone’s specific communication strategies.
I work with several coaches, you know, head coaches and assistant coaches, and all of them communicate slightly differently,
recognizing you can’t communicate information, you can’t speak information to one person the same way
as the other and knowing how to how to do that for each coach. And that’s something you have to learn pretty
early on so that your relationship starts off comfortably and everyone
knows what they need to know about the athletes every day of practice, because you hit the ground running, they want to practice.
Those communications have to already be to be working out. So just recognizing that everyone
takes information and gives information differently and it’s important to respect
everyone’s comfort. Sir, that is an art. You just said. Yeah, I didn’t know that when
I was nine, when I was younger. Now that takes years. And I learn probably I would
I would I would assume I know myself as well. Sometimes we learn the hard way, don’t we?
Trial by fire. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So unfortunately that that’s sometimes
the best way you learn not to touch a hot stove. So
at Texas, we kind of operate under this performance team model. That’s kind of what the podcast
is all about. And then again, like I said earlier, that’s the trend we’re
we’re moving towards. It’s a it’s the team behind the team. Right. How would you describe
the performance team model? What would be kind of your definition of how you’d say that? And then what
are some of the benefits? Yeah. So a former coworker of mine always liked the phrase
teamwork makes the dream work. It’s a nice cliche phrase. That’s totally true.
Being at a big division one university like Texas, the performance
team is necessary in order to maximize the potential of our student athletes here.
We’re recruiting student athletes that already come here. Great. They’re already great athletes when they step on
the 40 acres. So to expect one person to be able to build them
or, you know, a handful of coaches alone to be able to build them and best they can be in four years.
While it’s possible, it’s a lot easier if you do that with the expertise of a whole group
of other people. And I think sports, you know, the more competitive sports get, the more they’re
going to lean on these other these other worlds of of development and
having experts in each of those areas. I’ve alluded to them already a little bit, but. Water science,
nutrition, behavioral health is an untapped resource in a lot of places. Thankfully, one here
that we really do utilize heavily, of course, strength and conditioning and then sports medicine
and athletic training. I think. I can’t imagine a world and that’s obviously because I’ve been at Texas for a lot
of my career. But I can’t imagine a world where these five, five or six groups aren’t working
closely together. And while, of course, it happens in situ in schools and in areas
that don’t have all of those resources, I think when you’re trying to achieve, again, maximizing
and achieve greatness, that has to be that that’s that has to be
in the zone there. So, yeah. You’ve been a you’ve been a part of some really highly successful
teams. What have you seen that helps those performance teams
after the team move, whether it’s in the pool or on the field or court successful.
But what about the team? But what what’s been some things it’s been good. It’s helped that performance team
be successful behind the scenes. Yeah, I think I think the fact that I can’t pull one thing
further explains or highlights why this performance team approach is so important. Because for
every team I’ve worked with, even for, you know, groups of student athletes within every team that I’ve worked with that’s been so successful,
there has been different things that each student athlete, each individual has leaned on that
has made them better and that has then, you know, eventually impacted the success of the team.
I think definitely mental health and behavioral health helps in a world where student athletes
are stream time demands are extremely high and stress from academic perspective
is as high as well, having that ability to lean on that and to have those moments to decompress.
And of course, every athletic trainer has at athletes come into their office and do just that.
And we will always have our door open for those sorts of things. But having, you know, professionals,
social workers, therapists, psychiatrist, et cetera, also there to help. We know when that
when that problem is a little bit more complicated. It is is definitely something
you can’t trade. It’s a it’s it’s something I wouldn’t ever want to do without in a situation like
being working at Texas. Basically, I think our our performance
team divides time up between and time and tasks between
experts and professionals and makes all of the expectations of a Division One college
athletics environment feasible because, you know, we’re all set on one one person
or one group of people. I think it would be more challenging. Again, some people do it,
but this is a more comfortable and I think a more successful way to do it. You know, there’s
a great book over, I think was last year, a couple of years ago. It’s
called Team of Teams by US. I think Stanley McChrystal was author, but
the book’s talking about how just it’s a book on military and how
they had to change. The way they structured their teams when we
were fighting Iraq because it was so scattered and they had the change
that that team of teams approach is kind of what we’re talking about here, that
it’s not always just one person leading or one department, but we’ve got to
that that dynamic group may change depending on what sport, depending on what the needs
are that season, the issues or challenges you’re dealing with. It may rotate who maybe you’re a little
bit more involved in this time, maybe next time you’re not as involved or certain exactly. But you’re still part of the team
and your value and worth has not changed. Right. Right. Everyone needs something a little different.
You know, some people already come with, you know, with expertise or with their comfortable
in these worlds. But maybe they need to be pushed out of their comfort zone into whatever it might be. And that that is
different for every student athlete. But you capitalize on it when you have sought resources for all of them to
get what they need and then unite for one common cause. And I think to what you talked
about in the book, Cassie, about the importance of just transparency with information
that that speed of information helps you move quicker. Mm hmm. And that’s I think, you
know, kind of to piggyback off what you’re saying and why that team approach is so important
is that, you know, being able to share information amongst the team helps you move and make
decisions quicker and move the athlete down the road faster. So I think that’s helpful. Well, John, you asked
initially you asked me, I think for this. The question was, you know, with the teams that I worked
with that have been successful, what’s that? You know, X Factor or what? What was that thing that caused that in a team
that works together? And that’s something I think every coach is always looking for ways, you know,
whether it’s doing military workouts together, whether, you know, putting them through a ropes course or,
you know, trying to build these kind of exterior challenges to make the team care about the team, caring
about each other. Teams that are in it for each other really do
come out on top. I think more often than not, obviously, they have to have the talent and they have to have the skills
as well. But there is this intense intangible factor when you’re just out there and your gretton it out with your teammates
and, you know, you sacrifice dove a little bit more. You do these things because
there’s again, that extra extra emotion, that extra caring. And I think
a lot of the coaches that I’ve worked with have really tried to facilitate that and build that into their training and into
their culture. And. That one’s harder to figure out,
but it’s a good one. Yeah. You made me think of a quote. I don’t remember who said it, but it was it was. It goes
something like this, someone to kind of paraphrase it. But when we don’t worry about who gets the credit,
we can really accomplish anything. Oh, man. Well, that’s you know, that coat’s exact. I
don’t have that in front of me. But I think because that’s what I hear you saying is like, you know what? It’s we’re here
to help each other. We’re not here to be like, hey, I’m the I’m the guru. And I had the biggest
impact on this team. Ratha been successful, you know. So I think, you know, not care who gets
the credit and just being a team. So when I say I saw that even with, you know, like, ah,
our national championship teams of football and I was a student here at Texas, you saw that from your Vince Young’s,
you know, the team, the post practice meetings, you know, huddles before
they work for practice. A lot of the things that were said were, you know, teammates caring for teammates
and making sure everyone had each other’s back in those and those moments, too, which was really cool.
It’s good. It’s good. We’ll change gears just a little bit. Let’s let’s change
and talk a little bit about and we see this today.
You know, we’ve been doing this for a little while now, a little while, just a little slower.
So I’ve heard you talk about it. I know we deal with it. We are actually starting
to mentor and develop these young student professionals coming up.
Yeah, well, the best parts of the job. What advice? Couple things here on this one.
What advice would you give a young professional? Listen to this podcast.
Is there starting out at athletic training 1 2? What do you look for when
you go to some of this younger? Yeah. So, I mean, I tell this to
our athletic training students right now. And, you know, when there’s moments to have those motherly soapbox
advice giving speeches, and one of the big things that I tell them is to never let an opportunity
pass you by. And that’s pretty broad. But I you know, I’m usually
highlighting a moment where there was an evaluation of an injury that they could have, you know, partook
they could watch if they didn’t know what they were doing, you know, how to do it. They could at least watch and learn from that.
Clinically, that’s kind of the whole basis for how the program is built. The education program at Texas, as you
learn, you learn the the components of athletic training and class and then you walk over to the
to the field or to the pool or to the court or whatever. And then you
apply what you just learned in class with supervision, of course, by certified professionals. But that
is the opportunity component of this profession. And it’s it’s bar none for
for success. Absolutely. In addition to evaluation experiences and clinical experiences
and never missing an opportunity to volunteer for an event, you’re not going to
experience those crazy catastrophic issues. If you aren’t if you aren’t putting yourself
out there and taking taking time to do the extra volunteering, whether that’s, you know, a track meet
that the university is hosting or a marathon in town. I mean, you can get a lot of experience when you’re
working on some of those settings. So I tell them not to let those opportunities pass you by both from the clinical experience
perspective and because I’ve met some of the best people, best mentors and people I’ve known that
I’ve utilized throughout my career in those experiences, too. Are you our director here
at Texas? Probably. The reason I was on his radar as a first year student was because I was gung ho about
working sports medicine camp, which is, you know, kind of an extra extra thing we do here
and something that not everyone really is interested in doing in the summertime. But he I was a camper
through and through, and he loved that energy. And, you know, that was just that jumpstarts a relationship
that has, you know, helped me a lot along the way, getting into graduate school, having recommendations there. So you never know who you’re going to meet.
And you don’t wanna meet someone just with the intention of, you know, use it, utilizing them for professional growth.
But in our program, director tells a story of running into someone in the elevator. He had his
elevator speech and he got an NFL internship from a conversation he had in an elevator. So always
taking advantage of opportunities and not, you know, always looking down, looking at your phone. He
kind of just laying back and waiting for something that volunteer lap. That’s what I tell students
because I truly believe it. Yeah. I don’t think I would be where I definitely wouldn’t be where I am right now if I
if I had not taken advantage of those. And then not that I am necessarily on the pay
level of getting to hire people here in Texas right now. But they do take the input of our our staff,
of course. For me personally, if I’m hiring, I’m looking for someone with an interest in research
because I have a research bug in me for sure. I love working with individuals
that are heavily invested in following in and recognizing evidence
based medicine and where that trend is leading. It’s a it’s just a passion of mine
since since graduate school really sort of sparked that for me. So that’s always something that I’m asking about. Anyone
we might be interviewing is where they where they fall in that realm, and it’s not it’s not a deal breaker, but
it’s something I like to see. That’s so good. I think the advice you give about
just taking small opportunities, you know, getting started.
What you’re telling us, that’s powerful, I think. Again, when I’m a quote, person, but it goes
like this. The death of a seed is the burial of a forest. And you
think about what you just said. You would think being in a sports medicine
camp like that’s that’s insignificant, that’s just the one telling. And
we do we start out you get small opportunities and how you steward or manage
or take advantage or don’t take advantage has big implications on your career. So that’s good advice.
I mean, yeah, absolutely. Making sure, of course, while you are taking advantage of these opportunities, you are shining,
too. Right. So you don’t I guess, don’t partake in these extracurriculars if you know,
you’re still going to have a bad attitude. They’re watching at all times. So it’s important to have that right attitude
on while getting those experience. Yeah, that’s good. And like you said,
what I heard you say about hiring to just just stay curious. Right. Yes. There’s just this
natural curiosity of growth and wanting to get better and learn more because
our profession is changing so fast right now. Right. Technology
and everything. It’s hard to keep up, really. It is it’s it’s pretty impossible. But you got it. You got to stay curious
to keep that edge. Yeah, as much as I. As much as I don’t love change, cause I love all the coworkers that I work with. And
we have had some change on our staff. There is there is a re-energizing
when you got a new face, especially if they’ve got new perspectives and they’ve got new credit. You know, different
credentialing is different angles on things. They’ve, you know, taken different courses or they have that, you know, that
energy. It’s been as much as I hate saying goodbye to good coworkers, having new ones on staff
that add that energy is fun, too. So it’s it’s a Win-Win kind of thing. I guess it’s good to have a fresh set of eyes for sure.
Yeah. I want to talk just a second about professionalism.
So all my years, I’ve definitely watched you work. You are somebody
who has. I feel like this the high standard of excellence and professionalism on how you carry
yourself, how you communicate, how you work with people. And it’s something I’ve always respected.
And, you know, to me today. I don’t know that in that we
always see it that that same standard you do. And it can impact, you know, whether you get the
job or not. What would be your definition of professionalism and how do you go about
developing that? Yeah, I’m I think I I kind of walked
into a lucky situation at Texas. I think first and foremost, surrounding yourself with good people,
both at Texas A&M University of Virginia, kind of the two main places I’ve worked collegially.
I can’t say enough good things about everyone. I worked with Ethan’s Levi Kelly Pule, you B.A., Alan
Harden here at Texas. You, of course, my former supervisor, Tina Bonzi and LA do both.
Tina was great. When you’re both great examples. It’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So
if I if I tried to define, you know, what those qualities are in the people that I look up to, because that’s ultimately
how I then have grown to try and replicate or be more like they were
both. I would. They all have that that ability to kind of take
maintain calm level headedness during any scenario, whether that’s administratively or clinically.
I think that’s hugely important for a sports medicine professional.
And and respect, respect and a lot of different areas. Respecting
their patients are, you know, what we would call student athletes here, respecting the profession and just
recognizing its role and the professions around our profession, I think
is really important respect amongst colleagues that work in other disciplines.
And then, of course, respecting those that you work with and directly and indirectly at your institution,
I think. And I go back to something I think I said earlier that, you know, we expect of our student
athletes or even my athletic training students, but doing the right thing when no one else is looking
professionalism. I think that that is definitely a requirement. Just like we expect our student athletes to do the same.
So keeping that level head, I guess keeping calm and and
listening more so than reacting and speaking think is strong. That’s a hard line,
sir. That’s a hard one. Yeah. See what the phones and everything today? They have to listen
to people. Yes. And just in general, I mean, I learned that even in my, you know, my relationships,
my husband, sometimes I got to listen. Speak second. Listen first. Right.
So just doing that professionally is important as well. Listing what the users
need to see. That’s a whole nother that’s another that’s another try and find someone else for that one. Quick question
on this thing. How do you know if somebody knows you’re listing? How do you know? How do you know
if someone knows that you’re listening? I don’t know. Contact or
body language. I guess the response you give eventually.
But that I think. I agree. I think you nailed it right. There was, you know, after the
conversation of the meeting. What takes place after that? Yeah. How you respond here
because, you know, it’s heavy. Yeah. It’s good, I think. But I think it’s, you know, people
you’re talking about because you guys are our leaders at Texas. But leadership is always about.
Being this dynamic personality and vision and being a go getter a lot of times
about can you listen? Yeah, more more often than not. I would say.
You know, I would say this too. And again, this is not something that I’m saying. It’s something I’m def
at work on. But when you listen, I think you you get really good at asking questions. Yeah.
You learn a lot more that way too. Yeah. And so I think today we we have a lot of noise. People like to talk
became how well do people listen? I think that’s I think that’s a big piece of it. Yeah. And there’s you
like quotes all thrown at you too. This was an athletic director that I worked with in Syracuse
at the high school, one of the high schools I worked at. She would always say, you know, the athletes
are the people you work with. Don’t care about how much you know, until they know how much you care. Yeah, I love that.
Cool. I got one. Right. And I think listening is one of the best ways you can show someone that you care because you’re giving
them the opportunity to, you know, meet you where they are or meet your meeting them where they
are, how you want to put that. But if people know people figured out over time, if you really do care and.
Yeah, if you’re interested. So that’s good stuff.
What about the future of sports? If you had a crystal ball, Cassie,
and you could predict the future. What do you see coming down? What do
you see coming down the road in any innovations, any kind of cool stuff,
things you may see change, anything that pops up with that kind of stuff? Yeah. You know, I think we’re going to continue to learn
a lot. I think the brain remains one of the most confusing and fascinating
parts of our body. Obviously, with regards to concussions and those sorts of things, I think that’s
going to continue to be a focus because because it’s so important. My godfather,
you saw someone, you only get one brain, so take care of it. Ironically, that is very true.
I think that will continue. I think mental health, mental health and wellness and behavioral health
is is going to become a more relevant factor in a lot of cases. And in
sports medicine, departments are going to be going to have to recognize their role in helping
and fostering that and maintaining that. And how that is going to impact sports is
I mean, I say it’s going to it already is. It’s already a huge deal and
we’re kind of connected to that. I think all these things sort of overlap, I suppose. I’m really
interested in learning more about sleep and where sleep plays into
a lot of these things, probably because I work at a college where an average student athlete on my team. I know this because
I track down their sleep for 10 weeks is, you know, looking at
But there’s still a lot of still a lot there. So how we can be involved in that and helping that
cause, obviously sleep is happening not under our direct watch. Right. That’s not something we
can directly impact. But there are ways and there are things that we’re learning about that we can do. And that overlaps
back into the recovery that I was talking about, body maintenance. Those seem to be high on the radar
and bleeding into the realms of nutrition. But also some of these technologies
like wearables and gear that we’re finding that might help compression float tanks,
infrared. But like all of these things, I don’t know where they land on research and I’m still waiting for that to roll
out. And I’m leaning on Travis because he likes research just as much as I do in our sports science
department, but trying to find the next best thing so we can be on the front of
that pause, don’t we? Yes. Sleep pods. I mean, employees and first time
I don’t know if it get them for employees that go over well. Yeah. I like
the thought of it though. I like the thought, you know. Yeah, exactly. Anything like that bodywork massage.
I mean our student athletes obviously respond to that sort of thing and they they feel benefit from that.
So it’s it’s got to be something we look at. Good stuff. Kind
of getting near the episode here. Just want to touch on a couple more things.
I know in our profession early my career as a coach, I saw one of
my former bosses his life, you know, his mares just kept blown apart because he just worked
many hours. Yeah, that’s hard. You got it right. You got a part of the job, is it? It demands a lot
of your time. I know you have. You’re married. I’m married. I know. I’ve dealt with it. You’ve mentioned
it. Talk a little bit. How do you maintain or manage, I guess,
your work life balance? How do you tell that? Yeah.
There’s I guess there’s several things that I I do one. I’m always checking in both my work
life balance and my husband’s. I’m married, don’t have any kids yet. My athletes will delight when
I say yet because they’re all ready for me to have little ones. I’m like, what do you mean? I already have 20 kids on last year. I’m good.
You need to take care. Yeah, I check in on how my life balance is going, how I’m doing, but also how
he’s doing. So that conversation in and of itself offers just that reciprocity to make
sure. I mean, I still consider us young professionals. I know we’re exiting that realm a little bit here soon,
but I think young professionals do tend to kind of grind into the into the ground a little bit and
they work, work, work, and then realize later, like I’m in my 40s or whatever, whatever you want
to call young fresh. And I don’t know. But for me, one thing I do is I plan ahead when I can.
So in the sport I work, I recognize when my offseason is and as best I can,
I I plan things, I plan trips, I plan getaways. And, you know, if I know
there’s an off weekend and we’re not going to have practice, yes, I could change. And so your plans
have to be some plans have to have a little bit of flexibility. But I you know, I take advantage of that.
I’m truly unplug. I mean, you have to truly unplug. And athletic trainers don’t really have the luxury of.
True. 100 percent. Unplugging our phone is always on for emergencies, etc., but
working with your team and recognize and talking to them about respecting your time too. It’s not
a hard conversation to have. Kind of sounds like it might be, but an a team culture where, you
know, everyone loves each other. With regards to that, they they understand that I’m married. They they know my husband.
He comes to all of our games. So it’s it’s a respect thing. They’re that they recognize. I’m not gonna
call you at 8 o’clock at night for something that’s not an emergency, that wait till the next day. So
turning it off or unplugging when you can within reason
and making sure your team and your coaches know that too, and working with you again, surrounding
yourself and great people who also have a desire for work life balance is is
is a true gift. I think having having people that I work with that work hard when it’s
work time and they want to grind it out in their ready to win big win championships and then they’re ready to ready
to relax and unplug when we need to unplug, too. And bringing both of those worlds together, like I said, my husband
attends all of our home games. So even though he and I aren’t sitting next to each other in the dugout talking,
I look up and I can see that he’s there and he enjoys the sport. I mean, that’s so it works well that I have a husband
that like sports because he’s been in attendance of all the different sports that I’ve worked
with, you know, with Unreasoned, the ones that he is able to go to. So that helps to kind of feels like
now I don’t know when you inject a kid into the scenario, what it’s gonna be like. I thankfully, I’ve had
colleagues and mentors that I’ve seen, both women and men that have had children who had families
and made it work. And usually that’s the phrase they say as you just figure it out and make it work.
But seeing that and I mean, you know, at the highest level to one of my favorite
people in the profession, Kelly Pugh, is an athletic trainer. She’s director. She’s the head football athletic trainer
at UVA. And she has family kids. That’s the main. She is a boss. Like she is
just someone I want to be like when I grow up. That’s what I like to say. I got to meet her at some point. Yeah, she’s great.
You know, you should. I’ll be sure to make that happen if she comes to town. I’m not there yet.
One more question. What do you do to stay sharp as a professional?
Sure, some do. You read you listeners podcast, you clinics. I know you guys got to keep
these up like we do. Rally street coaches just turn reason. Yeah, well, if you ask
anyone on our staff, they’ll know. Most of them know we did one of those like personality
tests or whatever. And you are in orange or blue. I was a green the only
green on staff by the way when the green was that me. Green is a question asker and I’m always
looking to find the answers. So my staff quickly our staff quickly acknowledge that that was an accurate.
You tell your husband that, too. Oh, yeah. All right. My family knows. Everyone knows. I’m not shy
about it. So I ask questions. I’m constantly trying to learn new things. Anytime
I can at conferences, I totally nerd out. Like sometimes people
go to conferences and maybe they go to one or two sessions and then they go hang out or go socialize.
Now I do both. I fit in both, but I am from 8 am or as early as I can get there. Anything
relevant to what the sport I’m working, where I’m currently interested, I’m taking notes in
and learning things there. So I do like to look into where the research is out
on things. You know, just do searches that way. And I do lean on my coworkers that
are in the in the nerd department with me that that like that sort of thing to see what they’re doing. And
we share, you know. Have you seen this article recently? My coworker Tom
gave me a new app that you can more easily just kind of get the you know, the short version, the summary version of a recent
article that if you really want to dig until you just click on it. So finding those tools to make it easy and
accessible because, you know, free time is few and far between in this profession. But
yes, I make it work when I can. And definitely in the summers it seems to be conference season, so
to speak, when we do a lot of our continuing education and that sort of thing. And I look around
to who I work with and see what conferences they’ve gone to, what what new things they’re
learning and get their feedback. And if they think it’s been really valuable and they’ve really utilized a lot of
what they’ve learned. I’ll usually go take the same course because why not? Or pull from their knowledge.
Yeah, I love I’ve just over the years watching you guys as a group and as a unit, you guys
are always bringing in different therapies or modalities. You learn, you know, you did the dry needling
recently, I think. Was it the occlusion training?
The IBF are just I mean, that to me shows it. No longer are you trying to be
the best you can be, but you’re just you keep getting better, right? You keep you have this hunger to grow and learn
and. Yeah. And become a better professional. And I think that that’s a healthy environment
that makes you want to. Makes you look forward to coming to work. I feel like. So it’s something you guys do a great job with it.
Yeah, sure. I would say it’s impossible to keep up with the growing wealth of knowledge and resources that are real.
I mean, I started out here and as soon as I got to Texas, there were a couple class courses
I knew I needed to get on board with quick because everyone was already a.r.t certified ingress and certified whatever.
But I mean, each year they’re coming out with cut, you know, kup therapy. And like
you said, my old-fashion decompression or turbin dry needling. Couple of my coworkers
are into pure AI and that seems to have really great benefits. It’s it’s just seemingly impossible
to keep keep up with all of it all yet. You just gotta stay hungry. Like you said, stay interested
and trying to get better and trying to grow. There’s a lot out there and you don’t like it. It’s impossible
to keep up with, but you gotta you gotta keep chopping wood. I’m sure that’s the same in your world. Yeah. No, it’s there’s so much, you
know, and. There’s so much out there. But then, you know, I think that’s
the art of what we do. You’ve got to kind of weed through what tools can you use that you really are confident
in that you get good results with? Yeah. You know, I think that’s the art of what we do and that’s what makes it so different. Yeah.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter how much you know, if you can’t implement it. So it’s important to stay on top of it, but also
recognize what will be useful and feasible where you’re at. It’s good. Good stuff.
Well, awesome. Cassie, today, it has been such a pleasure having you
on the podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. Know if people want to find more out about you
or connect with you or just reach out with more questions. How could they do that? Yeah, I mean,
my information’s on the Texans athletics directory on my website there. My email, my
my office line are listed there. My email is pretty simple. It’s just my name. Of course, my name is
sometimes misspelled or often misspelled. Cassie K. SSI at U. Texas dot you.
Pretty simple there. But like I said, you can always go to the Texas athletics Web site. They got the staff directory there under
health and wellness and I am listed there. Good stuff. Well, have love to chat. That’s awesome.
Thank you so much for making time to do this. The show today. And thank you for doing
the show. I think this is really cool. Yeah, no cast. He’s a rock star, everybody. And if you’ve never met or even
talked to her, definitely reach out to if you got questions. And she’s really good at what she does. We we
have a great team at Texas. And again, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. And we’ll catch you next
week. Hook him. Hook him. Thanks so much for tuning
in and listening to this episode of The Team Behind the Teen podcast for future
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We definitely want to keep having great guests on the show and great content. So if you
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I’m Donny, mate. And thanks so much for tuning in.