E16 | Dr. Mike Voight: Defining and Developing Leadership for Successful Teams

[0:00:01 Speaker 1] Welcome to the team behind the team podcast.

[0:00:03 Speaker 0] I am your host, Dani May. This is the monthly show focused on building conversations

[0:00:08 Speaker 1] around the team based model approach to ethics, performance,

[0:00:11 Speaker 0] strength, conditioning, sports, medicine, sports, science, mental health and wellness and sports nutrition.

[0:00:22 Speaker 1] Hello, and welcome back to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Danny Mayb. And man, this is, uh we’re well into the New year. 2021 is upon us and, uh, this specific episode I have been so excited about for before you started the podcast and launched it, We’re gonna get into I’ll introduce our guests in just a second. But we’re gonna get into one of my favorite topics of all time, which is the topic of leadership and specifically, sports leadership. And so this is this will be the first episode where we delve into that topic again. The team behind the team. We’re looking at the different buckets that form leadership. Excuse me? That form the team behind the team behind the athletes on the field or court sports, nutrition, strength, conditioning, sports science, athletic training, and then the mental behavior, sports mental behavior, which is what m v is gonna be, Doctor voice gonna be talking about here in a second. So I kind of leaked that they’re already but without further ado, Dr Mike Void. Welcome to the show today,

[0:01:30 Speaker 0] Don. It’s great to be here. I know you and I have been talking about this for a while, and I’m glad it’s finally here. And I’m so happy to be ah team behind the team member.

[0:01:41 Speaker 1] Yes, sir. You are a crucial and critical member on the team behind the team and everybody listening our listeners today. This is Dr Mike Void. I’ve worked with him, uh, text with Texas while since 2000 and seven. So 14

[0:01:55 Speaker 0] years going on 14

[0:01:56 Speaker 1] years. So I definitely have a close working relationship and friendship with him. So we all refer to you as M V. Is that Is that okay today, doctor? What? We call, um

[0:02:06 Speaker 0] be

[0:02:08 Speaker 1] all right. Well, good stuff. Well, uh, m v let me just give a quick. I want to read some of the bios so people understand who they’re they’re listening to and what you have to bring to the table because it’s so important. So real quick who is doctor voice as a university professor, researcher, leadership educator and advisor. He is author of seven books on mental toughness in leadership and a columnist for the United Soccer Coaches soccer journal. Dr. Mike Void brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to his teaching, writing and advising work. He has, over 20 years of experience, providing team middle toughness and leadership consulting of all sports in levels pro Olympic and top division one, especially from football, basketball, volleyball, soccer, swimming, diving, softball, golf across and others is a ever expanding list of organizations. Departments and teams seeking his counsel include the University of Texas. Thank you, Lord right. UST Wake Forest, Mississippi State, Georgia Tech, Harvard and many others. The Los Angeles Kings, National Hockey League, New England Revolution Academy, MLS, New York Liberty, women’s MBA, U. S Olympic coaching staff, international coaching organizations and one of my favorites, the New Zealand rugby team. So M B, welcome to the show. So glad again have you on, um, how’s everything over in your your area of the world? How is it today?

[0:03:40 Speaker 0] It’s actually

[0:03:41 Speaker 1] quite pleasant.

[0:03:42 Speaker 0] It I don’t think it’s hit 30 yet, but but it is New England, and this is the time of year for no no snow in the forecast. This

[0:03:50 Speaker 1] week, you’re teaching classes yet. Are you back to teaching yet or you’re still kinda Paul’s?

[0:03:55 Speaker 0] I’ll be I’ll be back in a couple weeks, which gives me time toe to get with with my clients, which I’m so excited about now that e mean cove, it is still still with us, and I know we’ll have to endure that for a while. But it’s just so wonderful that that the coaches and the athletes are able to compete. So I’m just about kind of really getting into the start of the spring season. So So I’ve got a couple weeks to prep for that. And then classes start and we’re on our way.

[0:04:25 Speaker 1] Awesome. Well, good stuff. We’ll jump right into the first question. And, uh, you

[0:04:29 Speaker 0] know, our listeners,

[0:04:30 Speaker 1] um, maybe never met you. I know in our profession, um, you know, we probably get a lot of strength coaches and in sports scientists and performance coaches. Listen to this. This is the probably the first time they’re getting Thio get introduced. You Would you just take a moment? Tell us a little bit about yourself kind of your career path. How did you get started in leadership development and athletes and teams organizations that may be led you up to where you are today? Could you just take a couple minutes and do that for us?

[0:04:59 Speaker 0] I certainly can. Well, my my sport journey kind of started. I was soccer player, played in, played in college. I was so honored to be the captain of that team so that that’s where my leadership started. Even though I wasn’t given any type of mentoring or any instruction, I was just kind of Hey, you know, the team and coach values you as a player, and we think that you could be a good leader and go lead. So that’s that’s really kind of started my leadership journey, uh, me just kind of doing as I felt was needed. So I was kind of leading just, um, on on the go and then once I once I graduated from Springfield College, coaching was definitely in my life’s passion. So even once I started coaching and I was at a smaller division one school, and then I moved up into a top 10 program. And but I was always not only providing not just the soccer Exynos, but I was also doing an awful lot of mental skills training with with my guys but also helping instructed the captain’s just cause I never got that. So from the so any time I could I would offer, uh, just any any tips, advice, strategy. And once I left coaching Thio to pursue my PhD at USC, the leadership continued, and I just continued to do more and more reading more and more research on this, this incredible concept of leadership. And once I finished their started teaching as a professor, uh, now I kind of had the vehicle, the platform and the voice toe to doom or writing to do more speaking. And that’s kind of what what? What brought us here today. I was very fortunate to work with our head. Women’s volleyball coach at Texas. I was able to work with him when he was at USC, so so he kind of had a sense of the mental team and leadership work that that I do and took him a few years. Thio, allow me into to Texas, but once I was given the green light. I’ve been with them ever since and being able to tow work with with you, Donnie and the coaches. I mean, we really provide the student athletes at Texas, especially the volleyball student athletes with with three. Great, we’ve got you and all, all of your experience and and all of you know how and all the books that you’ve read. We’ve got Jared and his staff who have been there, done that. And then we have me coming in from the academic side. And I think when you combine all of that, all those team behind the team and and we get those captains and the up and coming captains in one place and were able to talk shop, amazing things happen. So So that’s what kind of you know, started it. And that’s where we are now. And now you and I get

[0:07:44 Speaker 1] to talk about it. No, I appreciate envy. I know. Just listen to you right there. That’s an incredible journey of kind of how you got into it and how your path is kind of morphed and changed. And again, really, just something that’s really resonating your heart, your passion has just come to life, and you could definitely tell your gifted in it. So, you know, you mentioned something about you know, when you got the Texas. But, um, you know, today there there’s such a such parody in sports, right, in team sports and in sports in general that you’re really fighting and scrapping for that 1% difference. And I Really this is just my personal observation and conviction experience of just working with you over the years. Is that man often times that 1% difference is leadership and eso You definitely spoke to that. So, uh, saw that when you came in Because I’ve never done anything that like that with you when you came into Texas for the first time. And so I’m very fortunate to be able to work alongside and learn from you as well. So we appreciate you envy.

[0:08:47 Speaker 0] You got it, man.

[0:08:48 Speaker 1] Quick question. Um, I always wanted to ask you this. What was it like working with with coach Carroll at USC? Pete Carroll. What was that like?

[0:08:56 Speaker 0] Well, you

[0:08:56 Speaker 1] know, it was it was something

[0:08:57 Speaker 0] that that just kind of started with with us. Just just a meeting on the way to his noon noon basketball. He absolutely loved his noon basketball, Um, at U S C. It was the upstairs in our old Jim building Opie building. The faculty would, uh, and coaches would play in one gym. And then I’d be teaching my basketball class Azaz a grad student. So? So our paths just kind of crossed. And once he knew that I was I was of the sports psych realm and and he was always a Tim Galway in her game guy. So So he and I just just kind of just started talking, talking shop and whether that would be before practice or I’d I’d hang out until eight o’clock at night, toe to talk shop with him after practice. So it was just kind of more of a chance meeting. But once we realized that there were both, uh so appreciate the mental side of of the game he he and I did did on article together and there, and he would then have me work with a few of his guys. Wasn’t wasn’t anything that was there was formal. It was mawr informal, but it was just amazing. Teoh be able to hear him say what what he believed in and the article we wrote was all about his coaching philosophy, but then to actually see it, it’s and so many coaches, though. They’ll have the coaching philosophies and you hear it, but you don’t see it. But with with Pete, I saw it day in, day out. He was the same guy, and he certainly practiced what he preached. Eso. So he was very, very impressive in that. In that way, and and even with the Seahawks, um, he still continues the importance of the mental side and as well as the leadership side as well. But, ah, lot of our conversations, um, really circled around the mental side of the game.

[0:10:46 Speaker 1] You know, he’s a appreciate you sharing that. No, um, that you worked with him for a good while there, and it just he’s just the guy. It’s always been very inspirational. It seems like he’s just real positive energy and always it just seems like he’s got a growth mindset. Is a head coach, which I think it’s always good to see. Coaches are always trying toe find ways, thio up their game, so he’s a guy that that I knew you’d been around. Always seem to do that. So that’s pretty cool. Um, how my next question for you. So, within the realm of sports, uh, envy how would you define leadership? Well, I for

[0:11:21 Speaker 0] my because I do teach leadership, undergraduate and a graduate class at Central Connecticut State. And this is Day One lecture one, and I keep it a simple is possible. Leadership is influence, and it’s just a matter of And, um, the second part of that definition is that you are not a leader if you don’t have anyone following you. So So it’s It’s about getting people and helping and working with people s o. They wanna work with you so they want to collaborate with you. Um, but then what is the influence you have on them? And there’s certainly plenty of recent examples of bad and ineffective or maybe even dangerous leadership. So we certainly see the negative influence. Um, and especially these times, we want the good and the effective leadership. So just to kind of boil it down, leadership is influence, and you are not a later unless you have people working with you and following you

[0:12:19 Speaker 1] That’s good. How would you say it differs from like a corporation or corporate leadership in military? Because you see, today a lot of corporations are strategically targeting hiring former collegiate athletes. You’ve seen articles on it. How does that differ from sport? And how does that working, corporate or military any differences there?

[0:12:39 Speaker 0] Well, I tell you what. And for for the my last couple of books on leadership in the one book that I spent several years writing, which is the same book I used for my graduate class, Um, I I scoured the business. I scoured. The organizational leadership is well as the military leadership. So So those were kind of my go to source is, um, to really find out what’s what’s new in leadership. What does the research reveal? So so an awful lot of my knowledge and understanding comes from both of those areas. Um, but I also love the idea of applying those principles and practices to sport a little little bit of a difference in the business where it’s a billion dollar industry. Um, but ah, lot of their focuses on leadership training, and they spend, you know, just days and weeks and months and billions of dollars training leaders, where in the military there, there, in the Their focus is on developing leaders. And they have to develop leaders because you’re talking about life and death situations. In the business world, you’re talking about kind of the bottom line, either gaining or losing millions and millions of dollars. But in sport, it’s about winning. But hey at especially at the elite level that that you and I work at e mean, even though a lot of coaches will will bring in the military the battlefields, this is a win and loss. Um, it’s O R. A life and death situation in sport. Yes, it’s e mean it is sport. It should be fun, but we can still, in a very short term, a small little time window. We can still not only educate our student athletes about leadership, but in the limited time we have, I’m very confident that we can help develop them. Not so much for that season. Yes, we can. We can certainly empower them, and we can have them be that good, positive influence on their team in order to accomplish our mission to help their teammates um, but we’re kind of developing them to really use the leadership and develop into a leader that they could bring with them into their next step, whether it’s graduate school, professional school or starting thio work in the real world. So So that’s kind of the difference that I see, um, in terms of we have such a limited time that we can educate them, we can make them more aware of leadership. But I think the majority of of what they learn, we’re hoping they take with them. Just because we don’t have near is much time, as the military and we certainly don’t have near is much time, as the business world does in training and developing leaders.

[0:15:19 Speaker 1] No, I love that. I think like you just you nailed it. I mean, especially we have college athletes. You definitely have a very, very short window and thin margin to to develop leadership. And so you’ve definitely got to be like you said intentional, uh, to to do that with that short amount of time. Not only do you have a small amount of time each week, but in over there, you know, if they stay three or four years with basketball shorter, obviously, was your really good players. And then with football, you’re looking at probably, you know, three years and guys trying to go pro so early. Now with the Olympic sports, you have a good hopefully four years if everything goes well, but yeah, short window for sure. Um, what would you say are some key traits or attributes? You’ve seen athletes of the year that displayed great leadership. So think about what would be your You have a number one trait that you would look for in an athlete, to be a great leader, to be a leader on that team. And then is there one specific example with all the people you work with? A athlete of person that stands out so kind of a two fold question

[0:16:24 Speaker 0] for for sure. Well, they’ve the research, the leadership research they’ve They’ve tried to boil it all down to these particular attributes, and the hundreds of leadership books that are that are published each and every year usually kind of try and focus in on the 55 leadership practices and the 10 late leadership. Um, you know, just ideals to me. Personally, I think the kind of the number one, um, ingredient that especially for a sport athlete, to be a good leader is to be a go to Are you a go to player in your position? So it s so if if you are that point guard, can we count on you to keep spraying that ball? If if If you’re if you’re the center, do you? Do you come your hitters? How much communication do you have with with your teammates when you’re struggling? Are you the go to Are you the go to player that that the younger players will go to to ask questions? So that’s so that word kind of encompasses an awful lot, But I started. Are you a go to player in your position? Because And I’ve I’ve told all the sport leaders that I’ve worked with you’re gonna have the biggest influence on this team by what you do on the court, on the field, in the pool. So if we can count on you to make plays, we we will follow you. Now if we’re able to take the next level, and if we can have you be kind of a go to someone who helps us stay focused on our mission. If you could help help teammates out, if you can keep our team together, eso That’s kind of the next couple of layers. But at the core, it’s to be a go to. And then if I had, if you force me to come up with a second, um, quality or trait, it would be confident someone who is confident in their own skin someone who, when they speak there, they’re not meek. They’re not quiet. Um, they don’t have to be aggressive and loud, but But when they stand behind something, they’re confident and you can trust that what they say they’re going to do. So I think that being a go to player and then if we can ask them as we add more layers, have them be a go to teammate and a go to team builder, but also someone who is assertive, someone who’s confident someone who’s not afraid to speak up because even though and I’ve heard it for years and years and years, Ah, lot of captains will say, Well, I’m a I’m a lead by example person. Well, that’s great, but that’s only part of it. We need to hear you. We, you know, we can’t just see you, which I referred to as visual leadership. But we need to hear you. So that’s where the confidence and the assertiveness comes in. And then just to just thio for your second part. What? What are some kind of samples just staying within the volleyball mix? Um, actually, England Mollema Cage. Logan Eggleston, Whose Our current to current captain. There was just some ideal captains who were go twos who showed that confidence, assertiveness we were through through your work. We were able to get former Longhorn colt McCoy to visit in with with our current team captains this past spring, and it was great toe to hear from him and tracking his career. And and if it wasn’t for him going down, the Longhorns certainly would have beaten Bama that that year s. So those were just some Some Longhorn examples of those go to confident, assertive type leaders that really help drive their team and really are good examples of that good and effective leadership.

[0:20:02 Speaker 1] That’s good stuff. Thanks for sharing that envy. Um, to build on that those answers for our listeners. What would be just some simple, practical ways. You know, maybe they can’t hire ah consultant or bring in somebody. How would they subtract ways they can begin to develop leaders with their athletes or teams. If maybe they’ve never done this, What would you say? Where would you start?

[0:20:25 Speaker 0] Well, shameless, shameless plug as this, Aziz, This is gonna be, um, one of my recent books is called That the Leadership Fixed game plan on Git. It’s out on Coach’s choice. But so shameless plug, Yes, but in terms of kind of, um, practical ways and it kind of starts with you as the coach equipping yourself. What do you know about leadership? What lessons have you learned from your leadership experiences? And And I also want coaches toe to kind of really dig deep a little bit and say, Why do you want to improve upon the leadership of your team? What is what is your end game? Do you want them toe work in collaboration with you? Do you want them to help develop the missions? So I kind of want coaches to be a, um upfront conscious about what do we want out of the time that we’re gonna take, especially knowing that we have a small window and especially in the college setting, there’s so many different things that the coaches can be doing, not just X’s and O’s. They gotta do technical training. Um, they’ve got film breakdown, that they have the valuable work that they do with strength coaches. So if we’re gonna carve time into our week, what do we want to get out of it? So So equipping themselves with knowing Maura about not only know more about leadership, but also why do I wanna focus in? And then the second part of kind of the model that I spell out in the leadership fixed game plan book is toe. How can we equip the captain’s? Let’s ask some questions of them. What have they learned from from their favorite coaches or their favorite, you know, mentors that they’ve had and and let’s teach them a little bit more about leadership. And let’s ask them or questions about what their endgame is, Why do you want to be a captain? And what strength do you have that you can be that good and effective influence, and then the the next few few steps we’re gonna especially if you have in football. I know they have an awful lot of leadership groups, so let’s get that group together every week every other week. And let’s let’s let’s talk about leadership. Let’s let’s bring bring out some of the examples of some of the negative feedback. I mean, the negative leadership that may be out there. Let’s bring Cem Cem current events about some positive ones. And let’s let’s talk about that, especially with the national title game being last night. There’s an awful lot that you can kind of learn from the good end and the bad. And then and then as coach is, the next step is toe coach them up, give them opportunities to lead and then the term that I usually uses to catch them, doing leadership right, which I would refer to as a hit on Ben if they missed a chance to really step in and be that good and effective leader, that’s called a mess. So let’s let’s coach them up, give them opportunities to lead and then capture those hits and misses. So they’re learning as they go. Just reading a book. You’ll never lose any weight just by simply reading a book on weight loss. You can read it. You can get to know how, but you have to do it. So I think, with leadership way, get them talking. We get them learning more about leadership. Then let’s get him out there. Let’s let’s get him doing it. And in time you will eventually transform them into just a player into a player leader into a true team leader.

[0:23:44 Speaker 1] I love that answer envy, because I hear you saying that there’s really a process to developing a leader. There’s that’s not an overall quick fix. And I think you know, the one of my favorite John Maxwell quotes is that leadership develops daily, not in a day. And I think that’s kind of what I hear you saying is that you really got to give it time. But you’ve also got to give it space and kind of like you, like you’re saying I got a picture of like a laboratory, right? If you if you have a laboratory where you’re experimenting and trying things, there’s gonna be accidents. There’s gonna be things that maybe blow up sometimes, but they’re not. It’s not bad you’re just trying to figure out what works so that you could bring it out in the real world and then use it when it really counts. And so I kind of here to things there. So that’s that’s pretty awesome. The stuff, um, so kind of bridging off that question. What in your expertise and opinion, you know why? Why does sport coaches not do a better job at developing leadership? Because I mean one thing, always from from Day one of me being in coaching in sport is that we always every year after every since we need better leadership, it’s a pretty consistent theme. You hear out of coaches mouth. So but what would from your experience? Why do you think they don’t do a better job or what could they do to do a better job? Yeah, Excellent

[0:25:03 Speaker 0] question, Donnie. Coaches have so much to do. You’re you’re a coach now. Um, for six years, I was a collegiate coach. So much time is spent doing the necessary things. Recruiting, training, conditioning, preparing for matches, breaking, breaking film film down to just the hundreds of other things in terms of rules compliance. So in terms of There’s so much work that needs to get done and and the average sport fan, unless they know a coach, do not know that it’s It’s incredible the amount of tasks and duties that the coaches have, even even at the high school and club level, especially if these people have have other other jobs. But but for the collegiate coach and the pro coach, there’s never enough time to get all the necessary stuff done. And then now you add this leadership peace. It is a specialized knowledge and a zoo you mentioned in in one of our earlier drafts of one of our books that that we’ll talk about eventually. I mean, you you mentioned just how much how much time it, uh, how much time it takes, and it really needs to be prioritized. Leadership is a science, but it’s also an art, and it and it just takes not only the specialized knowledge but but the know how. How can I bring this into my team? But like you mentioned with John C. Maxwell, it is a process. It takes many, many days, and it’s not. It’s not a can program that that you could just open up and the players read. They follow the steps, and then now they become a leader. If only it was that that easy. So so for coaches, it it really takes them to prioritize this. They need to do. I mean, no one’s going to do is much reading as you do, Donny. You are definitely the most read coach that I know. But the reading certainly helps just because you need to develop that knowledge base and just by just by grabbing different sport coaches, books isn’t really going to do it. Um, so I think it’s just a lack of time. I think, Ah, lot of coaches kind of assume that they’re already a leader because of their position, so they already know it. And that’s not That’s not really the case, because that’s certainly a misconception among a lot of leaders today, not just in sports but in uh but in corporate and the political realm. They they just believe that their leaders, because of their position and that’s so not true. That’s that’s such a common misconception. So, really, it’s just a matter of prioritizing planning out sometime. Will you improve upon your knowledge base And then it’s also how am I gonna put this into our weekly practice schedules and and and address it whether it’s with our co captains, Whether it’s in football with our leadership groups, we have to prioritize it. So I think it’s definitely a kind of a combo of those two points. Dhani.

[0:28:08 Speaker 1] That’s a great answer to I love. Um, I love that because, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about you know, there’s those seasons and those those

[0:28:20 Speaker 0] years where

[0:28:21 Speaker 1] man, the team just has an incredible year because oftentimes they’re just athletes are just naturally gifted. They’re born kinda so to speak the lead there, just a naturally gifted leader there. They were kind of built that way from birth. But I also believe, you know, I’ve seen years where, especially working with you, and be where there’s maybe somebody who maybe they’re not a big vocal person, but they’re kind of the What would you call it? The reluctant leader. They’re still very gifted, but they may be they don’t. They lack some of the the the vocal skills of the communication styles that air required to lead and man, when you see those un reluctant leaders

[0:29:02 Speaker 0] and you get

[0:29:03 Speaker 1] them position to lead, man, they do a great job, and I think it takes like you said Cem, Cem, intentionality and purpose and planning that, really, it’s not as hard as you think once you kinda go through it for for a couple of seasons. But I think there’s sometimes coaches. They just they don’t see the leadership qualities, and they just let them kind of drift along. And they don’t become the leader they could be to influence a team to be more successful in the years ahead. So I think that’s something sometimes, you know, leave it on the table, so to speak.

[0:29:32 Speaker 0] Well, sure, Donnie, and you certainly bring up some excellent points. Uh, I think asl long as you’re prioritizing it, as long as your team knows that, Hey, Coach really values this This’ll leadership peace. And not only do we hear it, but we see it where, where? I mean some. Some coaches don’t even want to have set captains, but they but they want at least the seniors to take over, so the seniors will will be the first ones to speak. In a meeting or with seniors. Will will take care of the warm up or or, you know, during halftime before the coach comes in. The captain’s will will bring the team together, so it’s not just kind of saying it, but it’s, but it’s letting the captain’s let let them visually display that. Hey, we are stepping up and give us give us the opportunity to try and lead because kind of going back to one of the ingredients I mentioned earlier is the confidence and mawr. You give them the opportunity the Mawr confident they’re going to get. Especially for those, as as you mentioned those reluctant leaders who have never been asked to be the first to speak in a meeting. Eso give them that opportunity Now, what I would do with those reluctant leaders before the meeting have the meeting before the meeting and let this Captain No. Hey, just so you know, when we talk about you know how lackadaisical practice has been this week, I’m going to go to you, so make sure you have something to say so that those there lots of little tips that you can do, but but letting that captain know that Hey, the first person who’s going to speak is gonna be you. And and if you could mention this point or that point, that will help. So that so that way. They were given some time Thio organize their thoughts, and then they’ll probably execute quite well because they were given that heads up. And sometimes that’s that’s all it takes. So there’s a lot of little things that that can be done, Um, to not just prioritize later leadership, but to show the priority.

[0:31:33 Speaker 1] That’s very powerful. Good, good, good little tips right there. Envy. That’s that’s really very practical. Some good handles to take for a lot of the listeners, um, kind of a shift of topics here just a little bit. Wanna one of the current buzzwords that you hear so much on social media in an article today is the word culture. So how would you define team culture and from your experience? How important is it?

[0:32:03 Speaker 0] Well, culture is is brought up in in the majority of coach interviews in the business world, it’s it’s all about culture, and the business world is where I kind of use and how I define culture thing. This comes from the Harvard Business Review. Um, culture is basically the norms. Um, just what’s encouraged or what’s discouraged, what’s accepted or rejected. Among among this group S O so the culture is is something that I mean, the head coach is certainly a key agent in developing that culture, but the group kinda has its own norms as well. So I think it just points to the benefit of having effective team leaders because you want to make sure that the culture that the coach wants to establish the the behavioral norms that the coach wants done You. You wanna make sure that those mirror match the team culture. So the more that you kind of come and collaborate with the captain’s that way, you’re more aware of what is the team culture because a lot of coaches just assume that whatever culture they want is actually done. But that’s not always. That’s not always the case, so it’s just a huge benefit on something that the coach listeners out there. Just And if you need any more examples of why leadership is important, this is probably one of the biggest ones to make sure that the culture that you want you actually get in is reinforced by the team team leader. So again, kind of just to define it. It is kind of the behavioral norms of the team. What’s encouraged discourage what’s accepted or rejected within the group.

[0:33:46 Speaker 1] What have you observed over the years in terms of like a toxic, unhealthy team culture? And what have you think with strong or successful team culture? Kind of compare those to a toxic or or unhealthy team culture. And then what have you seen with strong, successful team cultures? What kind of compare those two?

[0:34:04 Speaker 0] Excellent question, Donnie. Uh, in my in my 20 years, working with collegiate teams from all sports, I’ve I’ve seen them. Well, maybe I haven’t seen them all, but I’ve certainly had so many examples of of the negative toxic to the very positive, uplifting, empowering and everything else in between just as a as a quick example of kind of ah, the toxic ones even, even just I was I was working with, and it certainly wasn’t Texas and that this was another top top collegiate volleyball team who had had the star power should have done a whole lot better in one of the top conferences, but but they were always whenever it came crunch time, they couldn’t execute, they couldn’t finish, and it and it cost them a season. Here they were there, ranked in the top 10, and they bowed out early in the N. C. A. A tournament. And when we were able to to peel the layers, it was it was just just and again. It wasn’t a toxic culture, but it was a It was a culture because the because the captain was the so called favorite of the coaches and the rest of the team couldn’t get past that. So it was just this just the little drama that that held held it back. But in terms of them not having as productive a season that was toxic to them, so toxic doesn’t necessarily have to be that everyone hates each other and they’re battling in the locker room. It just could be these little grudges or the little drama that the tents tends to hold people back. Um, when whenever I’m asked about culture, I I usually refer. I mean Jared Elliott and his staff that with the Texas volleyball, amazing culture, coaches and team works collaboratively. They work collaboratively on their team standards on the team motto, Um, even the team identity. What they want others to view them. All of that is done in collaboration. So So that way the coaches and the players know what each other wants, what, what they want the culture thio to look like. But that takes time and it takes a lot of communication. And I think that’s the one area that I can kind of come in as the outside consultant. And I can help help make sure that that this process is done in a as time efficient but also seamless as well. Um, but there there are so many examples out there, but I kind of choose just the little drama and how that can certainly, in fact, the other team culture which can hold them back, but also stress the importance of the collaborative culture where we’re in this together and we will find solutions together and we will succeed together.

[0:36:47 Speaker 1] All good stuff I thought about when you’re talking about the little dramas because I think you know you’re gonna have drama and sports. I mean with your teams, because everybody is so different from different backgrounds, different families raising differently, different beliefs, ideas, you know, Some are strong minded. Some aren’t so strong minded. And so I thought about, you know, I think what I what I hear you saying to what I’ve seen personally is those drama. If there’s drama all the time, then I call it sideways energy. We’re always going side to side, but were never like you just said We’re never pushing towards our mission in our goal of what we’re trying to accomplish for the season and that. And I think that comes down to again, that culture being you know, not it always just seems to kind of you take two steps for you, take three steps back, kind of keep getting derailed. So I hear what you’re saying. There. That’s a great point, um, kind of building off culture. Think about think about, you know, you see this all the time, M v in sports and you see them business with teams or have, like, a really just a bad losing season. And all of a sudden, that team you know, they were 2 to 3 wins where there’s a football or tennis or basketball then then next season, and they flip it around to go from the bottom. The the basement, you know, to the top there, up in the top bracket, they’re playing for the championship. In your experience, in your knowledge and expertise, How does that happen? And be like, What are some things that go into that into that turnaround season?

[0:38:34 Speaker 0] Well, the first thing that I would say about any any kind of the chemistry behind a team turnaround is belief and buy in. You need the two and they and they are separate. Belief is just that that that deep down confidence that that we’re not done and the buy in is actually the practices, the verb, the how are we gonna show this belief? Eso I think, for any turnaround, there needs to be that belief. There needs to be that buying. Where does that come from? It certainly comes comes from the coaches who are who are not only saying it, but you see them between plays. You you see them, um, during practices where you see the belief and buying where it’s it’s not just talk where they’re they’re always working there, always there always striving to do the little things. They’re they’re smiling. They’re encouraging because ah, lot of coaches will will say, Hey, don’t don’t even though we’re falling on hard times, I believe in you We’ve got this so they say it. But but do you really see it? So So I think for the turnaround toe happen, the coaches not only need to say the right things, but they need to do the right things that cannot be mixed, mixed communication there. And I think that’s where some coaches fall off, where they kind of know. Huh? Changes are what we are probably done here. But just in in every sport, that’s that’s played depending upon whatever your favorite sport is, and especially for the listeners listening here. I’m sure you can think of these amazing turnaround stories on def, especially if they were involving your own team. I’m assuming you will probably see that at some point there was a change. At some point, there was belief happening. There was that there was that by in and once the winds started rolling, it became infectious and you just couldn’t stop. It s so to me. That’s that’s why I love what I do because I I absolutely love getting diverse collection of people together with all their all their baggage, all their different personality sets. How do we How do we get them focused in on 11 mission and especially in times of adversity? How do you battle that? Just as a as a recent example, I was I was so excited to be invited in by Bruce Burke and Brandon Wagner with the Texas men’s tennis team here. They’re coming off a national title, and unfortunately, Covert came in and and took away their their their season last year where they were going to repeat as national champion. And what a what a great challenge that is for that staff and that team, because here, there at the top, how do we sustain that? But But Bruce and Brandon said, Hey, you know, um, let’s let’s do what we do. But let’s do it even even better. Um, so So there’s certainly an awful lot of processes involved with getting the turnaround. But once you achieve that highest level, how do you stay there? So So I was I was very, very excited to be invited in and helping them sustain that level of confidence. And I was also happy to know that that you are their strength coach. So you and I get toe get to do what we do again. So it’s not just kind of the turnaround, but it’s also the sustaining. How do we sustain excellence? That is just a fun, fun challenge. And that takes everyone that takes the coaches. It takes the team leaders and obviously the team to have belief and to buy in.

[0:42:16 Speaker 1] No, I think, man, that got me excited here. And you say, believe so many memories come to mind of, you know, working with teams, you know, it zits, fun, working with teams that win. But, you know, I’ve definitely had my fair share of work with teams that have had losing seasons and, man, one of the most infuriating and just frustrating things. When you’re working with a team or an athlete specifically, that they just won’t get the belief in the conviction that what they’re doing is gonna make a difference. And, you know, I think sometimes you know, like they say, winning is a habit. But you know what? So is losing

[0:42:53 Speaker 0] like

[0:42:54 Speaker 1] you said. You know, if these athletes don’t have buy in first and belief, then nothing will change. And so there’s a process to getting back to being a winning team or winning athlete or winning season. And there’s a lot. Sometimes it takes longer than others, and I mean, last night on the night I love listening to the postgame interviews last night was the collegiate football national championship. First thing out of Coach Saban’s mouth was he loves working on this team because they’re bought in just what you just said. He’s held it and you could see a genuine, authentic smile on his face it. Man, when your athletes are bought in and they believe in each other and they bought into the culture in the system, then the work is done, and then the winning becomes a byproduct of all those different processes. So when I love it and I love it, we’re kind of getting near here to the end. So just a couple more questions for you. Envy. What do you see coming in the future for leadership development in sports? Well, you know, I was

[0:43:56 Speaker 0] I was so, so excited once Sam Walker’s book, The Captain class came out, and, uh, and in that book, for those who haven’t had the pleasure of reading it, I mean, Sam kind of through

[0:44:08 Speaker 1] who

[0:44:10 Speaker 0] knows how maney, How many volumes of research and stats that that he had to go through. But the same walker basically kind of looked at at the best teams. Like in history in sport, Andi had very, very high criteria for those for those who were rated kind of the the best teams ever. What was it that led them to that sustainable success? And and after looking at at star Power best coaches, it dwindled down two team leadership. So I I love that book. But as I was finishing the book, um, Sam Sam mentioned that, at least at the highest levels of the game, which is which is obviously the pros and the Olympic level. Ah, lot of coaches air kind of just, uh, just kind of having their their best players. Where the sea which which is what hockey players do. Football players have have the sea on their on their jersey eso Sam Sam thinks that some coaches are kind of going away from what has worked for years, is empowering those those team leaders who who just get it done there, that they know themselves as leaders. They work hard to get to know their their teammates. So I am. Even though Sam kind of put in a little cautionary that at the pro level they may be going away from having the right leaders lead. And they’re kind of just using it as as maybe a carrot T to bring in the top draft choices or toe toe offer that carrot to the best player on the team. So so despite some of his concerns, I I believe that more and more people at the higher levels of sport value leadership and especially at at our high level of college, I hope. And I’m encouraged that more and more coaches will will hear podcasts such as this or or read books about the importance of of the process of leadership, not just to get wins, but because it’s the right thing to do. And today’s generation needs as many mentors as they can to show how leadership should be. So. So I’m I’m very encouraged by

[0:46:21 Speaker 1] it

[0:46:22 Speaker 0] and and I do hope that more coaches not only will considered training there

[0:46:28 Speaker 1] players to become

[0:46:29 Speaker 0] better leaders, but I’m hopeful that they’ll be a little bit more introspective and say, Am I the leader that I need to be for? For my, um, team and players? There’s an awful lot of work being done in the business side in terms of bringing in leadership coaches for their CEOs and their upper management positions. I would love to see the same thing happened in sport. Um, in terms of a. D s assistant AIDS head coaches, top assistant coaches being able to to talk to someone who does leadership on a day in day out basis. So I’m hoping that there’s gonna be a trickle down from the top corporations to sport and and and let’s let’s let’s give these coaches someone to talk to a resource, someone who they can bounce something’s off of. And this is what we do day in, Day out is leadership. So not only am I encourage about coaches doing mawr with their team leadership, but I’m hopeful that they’ll doom or with their own leadership, knowledge and, uh, practice by bringing in leadership coaches.

[0:47:36 Speaker 1] Good stuff in me it’s That’s true, it’s definitely got to start at the top

[0:47:40 Speaker 0] before

[0:47:41 Speaker 1] it trickles down. If it’s not there, then it doesn’t go through the organization of the team. Last couple questions any What would be some great resource? Is any books, programs? Podcast? You gotta go to leadership book. Definitely. I would love for the listeners. Maybe first, you know some of your top books that you’ve written. I would love for them toe check those out and get those in their hands. And it’s helped us so much. So maybe talk about some of that real quick.

[0:48:08 Speaker 0] Well, shameless plug as it as it is. I didn’t mention the leadership fixed game plan for sport. That’s definitely Mawr. More of the Applied Book just came out last year. For those who want it deep, dive into the leadership Very long book. Um, that was the book that I spent 33 years writing. That’s the sport sport leadership game plan, the book I used for my graduate class, which which really goes deep into leadership practice research in theory. But then I really want to I want to mention the two book projects that you and I are currently working on one is the words wisdom and wins spiritually toughness and leadership, and the one that’s probably going to come out before that one will be the captain Challenge. And I’m and I know you and I are very excited about that one, because we kinda we’ll address five principles. Leader of one Know how in skills. Mission focused teammate focused team focused. So we kind of hit those five principles. And and we actually, um, for those coaches out there for those captains out there who really want a set process, what can I do today to be a better leader of one? So So I’m very excited about our collaboration in terms of bringing those books out to the general population because I think and I know it’s needed, especially with me being as hopeful as I am, that leadership will be given. It do will be prioritized. These coaches need re sources that are ready. Oh, applying You could just simply take it, read it, apply it. So that’s s so that those air the current projects that you and I are working on, that I’m just so excited to get out.

[0:49:53 Speaker 1] Yeah, that’s huge. because, like you said, time constraints

[0:49:56 Speaker 0] are

[0:49:57 Speaker 1] right. And you’ve got, you know, all the wealth and years of experience and knowledge and research you’ve done, and you’ve dumbed it down into one you know, a package or playing that will be so, so just easily digestible and implementing, you know, to be able to implement into a team when with athletes is huge. So I love that one of my favorite leadership quotes again. You know, anyone can steer the ship, but it takes a leader to chart the course. And again, what? I hear you saying you’re gonna have a plan and a chart, a roadmap for these leaders that that definitely have that willingness and that buy into to move forward. So that’s good stuff. And be, um where can people find you if they want to connect or reach out to you and just have more questions for you would be the best way to find you the

[0:50:41 Speaker 0] best of the best way. My my website, dr v leeds dot com would be the easiest way, and I’ve got plenty of resource is on that on that website. Andi also will connect you to my email there, Or you can simply, uh, contact this wonderful host for the team behind the team podcast. And he’ll be more than happy toe to share my contact info as well. I always love the idea of of coaches reaching out. Um, the The years that I’ve spent contributing articles to the soccer Journal on Dive also contributed articles to other coaching associations. I absolutely love hearing from coaches from all over the world just wanting to know How can I do what I do better? So so I will look forward to to hearing from any and all of you listeners out there. I think it’s wonderful that you have taken the time out of your very busy life. Thio Listen in tow Donny’s team behind the team podcast and show that growth mindset that you’re wanting to learn mawr about leadership. So that certainly shows shows a great quality that you have that you’re wanting to take time prioritizing leadership, and I certainly hope that you picked up a couple of things from this talk. Any questions that you have, I’ll be more than happy. Thio answer. So please go to the website or reach out Thio, Donny and I’ll be more than happy Thio to respond

[0:52:12 Speaker 1] with envy. That is, that’s awesome. Week. I just can’t thank you enough and and appreciate you enough for making time to be on the show today. I know that you downloaded a wealth of knowledge in our short time together. So we greatly appreciate your time

[0:52:26 Speaker 0] and your expertise

[0:52:26 Speaker 1] today. Um, I just want one kind of thing here at the end before we get off. If you have not, you know, ever really research, uh, leadership. And you’re listening to this. I highly recommend you reach out to Dr Mike Void. In my personal and professional opinion, he’s one of the most authentic, genuine not only people I know because I’ve hung out with his family and just watched him a close. So he lives and breeds what he teaches. So there’s a there’s a connection integrity there. But then he’s also I feel like he’s the best at what he does. He is in an elite level in sports leadership in getting team cultures dialed in. So reach out to Dr Voi M V a Z. We call him M B. It’s been really we really appreciate you M V Thank you so much.

[0:53:14 Speaker 0] Thank you. And listeners, I wish you all the best. Hook him.

[0:53:19 Speaker 1] Hey, that’s it! From here in Austin, Texas, the team behind the team podcast. I hope you guys are doing great out there. Stay, stay, stay strong and we’ll catch you On the flip side, thanks so much for tuning in and listening to this episode of the team behind the team podcast

[0:53:37 Speaker 0] for future episodes Goto,

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[0:53:53 Speaker 1] I’m Donny Mabe and thanks so much for tuning in