E11 | Andrea Hudy & Phil Wagner: Strength & Conditioning

[0:00:01 Speaker 0] Welcome to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Dani May. This is the monthly show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to ethnic performance, strength, conditioning, sports, medicine, sports, science, mental health and wellness and sports nutrition. Welcome back to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Johnny made. And we’re glad you have joined us again today. Today I’m very, very excited. I have not only a good friend and colleague as a guest today, but we also have another colleague and friend in the studio. So to two phenomenal people, two phenomenal performance coaches that care about the profession are here to join us today. Uh, Coach Andrea Hoodie, who just joined the University of Texas in August. Coach Judy, Say hello, everybody Today.

[0:00:56 Speaker 1] Hey, everybody. Glad to be here. Thank you for having us.

[0:00:59 Speaker 0] Yes, ma’am. Thank you for me. I know you’re in season and busy. Thank you so much for making time. And Dr Feel Wagner was Sparta. Science is joining us. Say hello, Dr Field.

[0:01:09 Speaker 2] Hello. Thanks for having me.

[0:01:11 Speaker 0] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Coming in from from California. Just getting

[0:01:14 Speaker 2] got in. Ah, yeah. yesterday afternoon. Yeah. Good. Welcome. Tosses. Lightning coming in. Yeah.

[0:01:21 Speaker 0] Has hoodie got you barbecue Since you’ve been in. What has she done?

[0:01:24 Speaker 1] We drove by Franklin. Barbecue was closed.

[0:01:26 Speaker 0] Okay, It was closed. All right, well, a to do list to do this. Right? Um, so today, again, just excited about our guests. I know. If any of you out there in a performance world, you should know coach duty and feel Wagner with Sparta if you’re involved in technology, so we’ll give it all that in a second. A little bit of the objective of the podcast just for those new listeners. It’s the team behind the team concept. We’re just going to get into the different buckets or streams of performance today that modeled its current trend and athletics strength and conditioning. Sports science on nutrition, athletic training, in mental health or behavioral health is kind of five buckets on. I know. Depending on each person, you may wear multiple hats in your role. And so we want to get into what makes each team successful. How do you manage and operate and deal with some of those challenges in today’s world? So I want to give a little bit of the career. Highlights about CO two t and fill as we get into this first co two. T again her first season at Texas. Prior to Texas, she was assistant athletics director at K U, where she worked directly with men’s and women’s basketball and oversaw all sports. They’re very successful career. Kansas. So, Coach, we’re glad we we could kind of steal you away. So glad you’re here. Before that, she was at UConn, where, she claimed, definitely oversaw men’s women’s basketball. Right. Um, had a national championship with soccer. Eight national champ ships that you can coach. Eight. Yeah. So very, very successful there. So, uh, been named national strength coach of the Year before Impact Achievement Award with an S E A. You’re an author. You’ve You’ve developed multiple, many, many MBA draft. So, Coach, phenomenal career. Glad you’re joining us today, Dr Wagner. A little bit about Dr Wagner. Got your start in strength conditioning. We share a common bond. E j dot crease at u c l A. So that always holds dear place in my heart for me and you that I worked under. Doc is a young coach in the you did too, as well. So we have the influence. Uh, was it was an athlete played football was injured. Little. Your story. We’ll get into that a minute. That kind of drove you out of strength conditioning more into what can do to risk to drive down the risk or mitigate the risk of injury, which has led you to your the current CEO and founder. Correct. Corrupt Sparta Science and I have been to his facility, Callie going back to Cali. And I thank you so much for having the volleyball team in that year and was phenomenal experience to see just how you’re managing in getting those athletes in better shape, not just to be stronger, but to be healthier. I think that’s kind of name of the game today, so welcome.

[0:04:17 Speaker 1] Thank you.

[0:04:18 Speaker 0] Thank you. So we’ll let you guys kick it off. And my first kind of deal here is like, just introduce yourself. Gave some highlights. Uh, Coach Judy will start with you. How did you get kind of roll us back in time? Where did you start? How did you get into strength conditioning that led you to hear? Give us the little short.

[0:04:36 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think my family was the first fear factor competition. Um, so I was the youngest of five kids. Ah, Irish Catholic family, where we were teachers. The everybody ended up being teachers, traditional teachers, and, um, everything we did was competitive, you know, uh, e mean watching TV, and then you run to the refrigerator and grab water or something. We would time it, we timed everything. Will time lapped around laps around the house. And whoever lost had ah consequence whether that was running up and down the stone driveway with your bare feet eating an onion like an apple, like I mean, it was is

[0:05:18 Speaker 0] you guys had some fun times, Coach.

[0:05:20 Speaker 1] It was fun. But it was also, you know, there was always a consequence to the competition. So being the youngest, I was always trying to play catch up. My brothers and sisters were, um, college athletes. So they were training, and I got involved in it and just wanted to be a part of what they were doing competitively in in training wise. And then I was a college athlete in Frank Costello, one of the fathers of strength and conditioning. was? Yeah, um, was my college strength coach and then Dwight GALT. Ah. Who’s that? Penn State now was going, Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I thought I wanted to go into corporate fitness or fitness or do something. I never thought I wanted to be a coach, but when I got into corporate, it was like, not my style at all. I wanted to be a part of a team and develop relationships and have an impact on the people that I was working with. So, uh, my first true position was that the university Connecticut under Jerry Martin, who’s a mentor or was a mentor, and, um, yeah, work for three Hall of Fame coaches since and like Phil being an injured athlete, you’re you’re driving your career to have people not be injured cause they’re pretty traumatic. Um, things going on, you know, I think I was hurt when I was 14 or 15 and I look at I look back and you think about God. What if I wasn’t hurt? Things would be different, but I can’t change my history. But can I change what could happen in the future to somebody else? So I think that’s where my connection with Phil has been just solid. That’s the foundation is that we’re both hurt and you want to prevent that in people. And then when people get hurt now, in the people that I’m working with, you internalize that and you’re like Oh my gosh, what could we have done differently? Or could I have done differently for that not to happen

[0:07:18 Speaker 0] Quick, Little point there, and we’ll get to you, Dr Wagner. But you’ve made something that made me think of something. It’s pretty interesting to me in our career and profession, or even just in life. Oftentimes the things that cause us the greatest pain becomes our passion. It’s really a key to your assignment because you care so much and you do research on it and you figure out the problem with that so that you can add value and help others so

[0:07:42 Speaker 1] well. And yet, now you look at it in all the A C l research out there, you know, that was my first injury. Ah, since I’ve had my knee replaced almost a year ago. Um, but you look at all the A C l injury data and research and what’s causing it. And it’s like, man, there still no answers to it. Yeah, it’s crazy.

[0:08:03 Speaker 0] Yeah, And it’s sport in itself, Just I think. What was it I read years ago? Your percentage of injury goes up significantly just by playing a sport and just because of the intensity of it. So,

[0:08:12 Speaker 2] yeah, the exposure,

[0:08:15 Speaker 0] Dr. Wagner to give us a little, give us a little history, Leave this up to currently where you started and all that good stuff.

[0:08:21 Speaker 2] Yes. So, um, like Andrew mentioned my I guess passion began being injured, you know, like like Andrea in playing sports. And for me, I think my experience is the way my brain works a little bit more mathematical. And so I figured, OK, the more work I put in training wise, the more I started getting injured, and that really was concerning for me, cause I would work hard on rehab or training. Yet the outcome would actually be the same or in fact, worse and so really kind of driven to figure out OK in this equation, it shouldn’t be working like this. So that kind of led me in the strength conditioning and and really loved. Um you know, being with the team and helping athletes and figuring these things out. But I also saw, you know, ah, need that I could fill from a medical standpoint to elevate that field of performance because it is where the real battleground is battlegrounds not in the rehab, the battle grounds in the prevention. And so how can we kind of gather, um, the evidence and the community to start elevating the folks that are working within that, um, that are really, truly trying to help people that are involved in sports? And that’s kind of led me toe toe to form a company that supports universities and and performance staffs with this idea of like, OK, let’s let’s try to identify using data quickly. Um, yeah, how we can make yeah, individuals as healthy as possible.

[0:09:55 Speaker 0] Training has changed like, yeah, that’s right 100 that you made me think of when I was playing a play ball. A Georgia. And back then, if you didn’t go heavier, go harder,

[0:10:06 Speaker 1] More is better.

[0:10:07 Speaker 2] Well, survival the fittest to write like is just yet another

[0:10:09 Speaker 0] term was like back then you were mentally weak yourself. You know where is today? you know, it’s kind of like we want. We want a lower injury of risk. But then how do you kind of keep that toughness to? Absolutely. So I think there’s a There’s a challenge of the fine line there. So

[0:10:24 Speaker 2] 100%. So for sure. Yeah, that under training versus overtraining I think there’s been so much, uh, you know, media and and and awareness around overtraining. But, you know, under training is just as bad. You know, that’s where that softness or that lack of mental resolve you know it can develop. Yeah,

[0:10:43 Speaker 0] it’s true. Um, go back a little bit. Kind of kind of got both of you in the studio. You know, I first heard about Sparta through one of our baseball coaches here years ago. Lance Sewell’s here, And I know Coach Judy just following you through the years in the respect I have for you, I really popped up on the radar with you first. You kind of got my attention. Uh,

[0:11:09 Speaker 1] Phil and I met in Germany the first time, and I didn’t know this, but I had been trying to chase it for years before that, Um and I didn’t know Phil and I didn’t know anything. Really? What was going on? Ah, friend told me about force plate technology and and maybe predicting injuries or trying to prevent injuries. And I had worked with force plates and undergrad and grad school, and so it became really intriguing. I was chasing it, but I didn’t know where to go because I didn’t have his name and all the stuff. So anyway, uh, we were on a trip with Adidas and, um, met in Nuremberg, Germany. And

[0:11:49 Speaker 0] how in the world of the happened

[0:11:50 Speaker 1] I know, right? Um, right. But right off the bat, first minute I met Phil was like, It’s on.

[0:11:57 Speaker 0] That’s good. How was your coach when you first met her?

[0:12:01 Speaker 2] Yeah. I mean, I think you know, when we first met, I was just blown away at Thea. I think the level of passion or empathy that we talked about like of like, hey, you had this painful experience that, you know, fires, that passion of helping, um, somebody or something in some way. And and we connected right away off that shared experience if we just wanted if people want to be active, we just wanted to help him be that way, particularly athletes. Um, just based off our own experiences. Yes, it was a powerful connection right away. Based based off empathy. Yeah. If anything,

[0:12:38 Speaker 0] I think it’s cool today. You see, you know, give me talking. This podcast is all about the team, but you really got It’s about the quality of people you have around you, Absolutely, To do the job at the high level, you cannot. That’s the law of significant loss significance that John Maxwell talks about, like one is to smaller number to achieve greatness. And I mean, as we get into this world, wind is it’s growing and changing. It’s speeding up. You really do need a team around. You have no great minds and great people. So school story. I never knew that, um, in Germany. Yeah. Reason to travel right there.

[0:13:09 Speaker 2] Yeah, I think you know, to your point of having that right team around you from Ah, we were a small, small company at that point, and I was afraid to grow, and we actually hadn’t used it outside or four walls and hoodie, just as both a friend and a colleague, you know, pushed me outside my comfort zone to get outside our four walls, which I think that’s the other importance of having that team around you a team within the team, As you say, You know, as you have those people that hold you accountable and and push you into things that, um you’re you’re afraid to do if you didn’t have a team around you, huh?

[0:13:45 Speaker 1] That’s funny, because looking back on it, I remember sitting in the airport in Frankfurt and I was like, No, we’re gonna work together. He was like, But it’s not ready. I was like, No, we’re working together.

[0:13:54 Speaker 0] Yeah. We’re gonna make it work.

[0:13:56 Speaker 2] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, like, that’s what you want in a team, right? You want someone? Yeah. Pushing

[0:14:01 Speaker 0] help Push you and make you better. That’s that’s right. Go back into a little bit. Each of you. Maybe Coach Judy, 26 years in the business. How’s it changed? The training. And is it different? Is it

[0:14:15 Speaker 1] way still, see? Use the same exercise selection. Right? Um, it’s just a little bit more pinpoint. Focus on when, Where, how and what intensity. And I don’t even know if we still do it the right way. We’re trying to figure it out. And

[0:14:30 Speaker 0] human bodies Amazing, right?

[0:14:32 Speaker 1] Yeah. It we always talk about, you know, what’s your philosophy? And that’s whatever works, whatever makes him better. And, um, that changes all the time. It changes during the season. It changes in the off season. Um,

[0:14:47 Speaker 0] Coach, what would you say? So today, that one thing I’ve just noticed and I know you have to You can quantify internal load stress, right? How has that changed the training? And,

[0:15:03 Speaker 1] you know, all I ever wanted was somebody that care. And somebody asked me how I felt some of it and to feel really good when you compete. Um, so if you don’t feel your basket, if you feel good, you play good. Right? So, um, I think asking somebody how it doing,

[0:15:20 Speaker 0] I love it. Yeah. God

[0:15:21 Speaker 1] is like, Holy cow. That’s a novel idea, right? I’d rather that than any data, Really? But the data kind of hold you responsible to what we’re doing.

[0:15:34 Speaker 0] Yeah, it kind of gives you, um or education or ah, more information of what you did and gives you feedback on how you can adjust. Right? And I love what you said right there about just the connection with people. And I always like to say Face to face time beats face time all the time, right? I’m thankful for phones and technology, but face to face times, always the human honest.

[0:15:57 Speaker 1] I’ve actually been getting away from the technology like phone wise, and it’s helped me as a coach not being on my phone. So that helps

[0:16:06 Speaker 0] you get more connected into the instinct in No, that’s so what Have you seen Dr White Training wives? And I know you travel and you definitely visit with coaches

[0:16:16 Speaker 2] and different sports and levels and organizations, I think, yeah, technology, For the most part that we’re seeing, it’s It’s not all positive, you know, because people can emphasize it so much that they forget. Kind of the basics, particularly, becomes a coaching. You know who you just mentioned of, like, how are you doing? You know, because we’re looking at data and numbers all the time. Um, that’s not the entire story. I think the other piece with with Data’s is in technology is just making sure to that if we are gathering information, ultimately it should act like a decision tree and that it should guide or support decisions as opposed to just light up colors and and just are interesting. Um, and I think, Yeah, I think that’s where the trend is gone. But I also think now there’s a little bit of a rebound in technology which is good, and that now people are realizing, Hey, if we’re not really using this, um, to make better decisions, we probably don’t need it. Um, which in any innovation in any industry that’s kind of what happens is there’s initial Russian people bring lots of stuff in than the bubble bursts. And it’s like, Okay, well, we don’t need some of this stuff, but we do need, you know, these things. And so I think it’s the state of performance technology right now is where the bubble starting to burst Here, where people are saying Okay, well, we’re only going to do this stuff that actually matters. Yeah,

[0:17:45 Speaker 0] you don’t get to two wives in your range with what you’re using.

[0:17:49 Speaker 2] Yeah, and that’s the term we use to depth is so much better than breath

[0:17:52 Speaker 0] because you get lost. You can’t just say you really can. You could get lost searching for the force. The tree, sir. Right there. Right. Using too much.

[0:17:59 Speaker 2] Yeah. We’re trying to explain every single thing rather than just being comfortable knowing, you know, a few strong aspects. The big rocks rather than the sand. Yeah.

[0:18:10 Speaker 0] What about each of you? Coach Judy will have you. Have you dealt with sport coaches? It may be a little resistant or kind of, you know, very skeptical with implementing some technology. Kind of what’s been your experience with that and maybe approach to kind of get a little bit by in.

[0:18:27 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think the sport coaches have been great. I mean, having technology and, uh, as a recruiting tool even separates you from other schools. Um, but e think with the coaches, knowing that the intent to make performance and health better, um, using technology, they’ve all bought into it, right? There’s nobody that said No, we’re not doing that that I’ve worked with, you know? So it’s just a matter of do you have enough people to interpret the data, understand the data, look at it and follow it. So I I’ve always had great experiences with doing. It was

[0:19:05 Speaker 0] good. Yeah, and I think I think it’s, you know, depending on the sport. And if it’s pretty, the novelty of it, it’s really new. And what are you guys understand this. If you’ve had a coaches had a bad experience with something they tend to be like, let’s just throw the whole thing out right. And so I think that’s, um, What I’ve seen to is maybe at first, something so new, and maybe you don’t understand it completely and it doesn’t go how they anticipated, they may kind of throw it aside and not realize the good benefits other.

[0:19:38 Speaker 1] The technology that we use, though, are pieces that we make decisions with. So they’re in the weight room or the sports performance center. So we use elite form and and Esparta. And how many people can you say that have had and use the same technology for almost 10 years? And we’ve done that,

[0:19:57 Speaker 0] you know?

[0:19:59 Speaker 2] Yeah, and consistency. I think in any technology is is important because what we’re all looking for is trends longitudinal E because we’re all a certain way on different days or weeks. But if we can see how that changes over long time, you know, that’s really, I think, where the where the fields starts to provide a lot of value. Technology wise is when you can get access to the trends of an individual. Um, you know, the ups and downs and what actually causes those on, I think to your point to Donny about sport coaches may have been burned almost in the past with technologies. I think that’s kind of the area we’re in right now is a lot of folks have been burned by certain 10

[0:20:38 Speaker 0] on my SATs, great in right success, like Hootie. And that’s to she can sell it, though too right? Yeah, that’s personality coaching relationship leadership that brings it in

[0:20:49 Speaker 2] 100%. It comes down to education, the right and the performance staff has to educate each other and administrators and athletes. Hey, here’s why we’re doing this. And here’s the value We think it’s gonna help you on. And I think that’s the The landscape right now is we’ve got to be pushing education, you know, from all the different people within the department.

[0:21:09 Speaker 0] Yes, I think who needed to your point? The thing I love is that you gotta be a rookie coach to a teacher. Once you get that technology right, I’ll

[0:21:17 Speaker 1] tell you the difference. That what has happened over the last 26 years as we worked with every athlete like you, like Phil and those are great reps teaching reps. We were on the floor eight hours a day, and this is the first time in 26 years that I have to worry about two teams, and that’s it. So you’re talking almost 30 athletes, and most people now come into the profession, and that’s all they’re worried about. Us 30 athletes. And I’m like, Man, you guys, I wish we could get you more reps

[0:21:49 Speaker 0] that zits like a getting a doctorate, right? Just coaching what you just said in that That’s invaluable. And I mean, I had a conversation with Ah ah, young man looking. He’s young. He’s in his early twenties, trying to get the profession. He’s only worked with one or two teams. I was like, I need to get more hands on experience with other teams

[0:22:09 Speaker 1] and coaches like they like they don’t understand their job descriptions anymore. Well, am I supposed to be working with them? I’m like, if you want to be a better coach, just coach o care who it is.

[0:22:20 Speaker 2] Yeah, jump in.

[0:22:22 Speaker 1] Let’s go.

[0:22:22 Speaker 2] Yeah, in a nice part about the university environment, right is there’s obviously gender differences and and, uh, and sport differences and all these different cultures within one umbrella, which is a great exposure for training as a coach. As a young coach, you get all these exposures that you couldn’t get with a professional team or or other, you know, aspects.

[0:22:43 Speaker 1] And, yeah, just dynamics of working with humans and all different types of humans and who you have to be to sit in and lead that.

[0:22:53 Speaker 0] Yeah, I do think that a part of what you say Coach Judy was, hasn’t game has a change. As Faras kids want to to know it. Do you care about me? Absolutely right. And there’s there’s way more distractions for coaches today. It’s poor coaches thing that can can kind of be a hindrance to that relationship, and I love that one quote. I’ve always uses rules without relationships. Eco’s rebellion, right? And so you won’t enforce rules, but do you have that relationship, you know? Do you know their background? What makes him cry. What makes him mad? What makes them happy? Do you know that person? Somewhat intimately, Uh, and how to motivate him is huge. So shifting gears a little bit here. Topic. This is one of my favorite coach Judy and Coach Wagner would love to hear your take career path. 26 years, Coach. Um, you’ve definitely reached Ah, high point of Pinnacle. You’re not done yet. I’m not saying the head like, No,

[0:23:54 Speaker 1] I don’t know if it’s a pinnacle yet.

[0:23:56 Speaker 0] Uh, you’re still going

[0:23:57 Speaker 1] up. It’s up and down.

[0:23:59 Speaker 0] That’s right. And I like it. That’s right. Securitization, right. Talk a little bit about what has been, um, some key factors for you getting toe where you at, They talk, speak to speak to that,

[0:24:12 Speaker 1] Um, probably learning how to deal with failure and being persistent and having great. I mean, that’s kind of how I grew up with my childhood and competition and wanting to compete, um, wanting to try to be the best and, um, having a passion. But I would you know, I think today too some people struggle to find their passion. But I liked your quote about, uh would you say your pain is your passion.

[0:24:40 Speaker 0] Yeah. I think you find things that really hurt you. You know what? It’s physical or even relational. You know, going back to that. My family was very broken dysfunction. You know what I love today? I’m passionate about my family because I was hurt growing. I’ve gotten over that. But yeah, it’s big.

[0:24:58 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think finding your passion. Ah, having integrity. Um, having persistence.

[0:25:05 Speaker 0] What if somebody’s listing? Really struggling in this career, they’ve been fighting grinding Azeri body says you talked about grid. How do you make it through those tough times, Coach?

[0:25:17 Speaker 1] Well, I would ask one. Why? Why are you struggling and, um, trying to figure that out? And, um,

[0:25:26 Speaker 0] how did you get through your tough times? I know it’s not been easy.

[0:25:28 Speaker 1] Everyday stuff. Oh, I think, um, every day I fail, every day is tough. Every day you make bad decisions and you just try to re evaluate and correct it. When Phil visits. It’s always questioning or to a you know, and, um and why we’re doing it then. I appreciate that I want questions. I want to be questioned because then I questioned myself and grow

[0:25:56 Speaker 2] and I would add onto Hootie’s, you know, career path, just from an outsider watching, you know, now that she’s in a new place. I also think one of the things that that’s letter to this place is is how outgoing she is at creating relationships within the organization she’s at. I mean on the way here, right? She stopped, you know, one of the field workers, the guys work on the field, reintroduced herself, said Hi said I’d of a fellow coach and then also said hello to, you know, an analyst walking by on the street, a data analyst that works within the athletic department. So I think it’s cycle yah, right? It’s that that’s really deliberate attempt to connect, you know, with others in the department, you know, to have that shared mission. I think that’s a big piece toe her growth. But I think anyone’s career growth I mean, you’ve done the same, Donny. Yeah, so I think, yeah, that’s a big piece of advice to for people out there struggling. I think they struggle sometimes because they look inward and only inward rather than accessing that team around him a lot of times because people are willing to help more often not,

[0:27:01 Speaker 0] Yeah, I love to say, um, I think Donald T. Phillips if you’ve never read any of his books, he’s got a incredible ah books on leadership. But he talks about how Martin Luther King Jr would walk slowly through the crowd and

[0:27:16 Speaker 1] that’s management at was walking around B W management by walking.

[0:27:20 Speaker 0] Yeah, but it is kind of like you’re never in a hurry, right? You wanna stop and get to know people and and make It’s a community. Yeah, At the end of the day, small community and people when you when you get to know people and like who he said, You how are you doing? What? Just, I think even knowing somebody’s name today is huge. Yep, and goes a long way with people.

[0:27:42 Speaker 1] I walk away when I don’t know somebody’s name, and I feel bad and I’m like and you wear it. Well, I do. Anyway,

[0:27:50 Speaker 0] that’s good. Good shows. You care for sure. So career path for you don’t want to talk a little bit about coaching. Kind of. How do you make some of those transitions and things you have to consider? Yeah, we’re some thoughts there.

[0:28:04 Speaker 2] Yeah, I think went into coaching, Really? This desire to kind of help others avoid injury. And then I got in the football carousel of strength coaching, which means, like, keep yourself. Yeah, keep that go back. Right. Keep that go back. Ready? Because every 2 to 3 years, and I think the thing that was, uh, e guess revealing to me at that point was like, Man, I’m I’m tied to something that I have very little control over, Um, and wanted to, like, be able to provide or investigate how data could help, Um, you know, support strength conditioning, performance coaches because so much of the work is preventative. And how do you actually put a number to that? To show the value they provide on that kind of was what led me into MAWR. The business realm of setting up a technology company is like, OK, this is obviously important. Injury prevention and push into my hands is probably not a good test that we should be using in the 21st century for sending people the moon. And we’re measuring joint strength by pushing in my hands like we kind of messed up there, right? So it’s like, How do how do we get data and technology to give coaches more validation and insights into how to do their job even better than they’re doing now? That’s yeah, I guess, for a career path. Kind of, um, But empathy was the underlying theme, whether it’s for the athlete or performance coach, that’s the underlying theme for me in my career path. At least

[0:29:37 Speaker 0] you know where all I always say Our pasts were all different, how we get the word rat. And I don’t know if there’s every ever like the same right. It’s kind. It’s always intriguing to me to see how we navigate through those those different areas. So definitely you coach, you you come in. Austin, I’ve known you for a good while. Now you’ve been so too help to me in a mentor in a colleague. Just glad you’re here to see that

[0:30:00 Speaker 1] was your career path.

[0:30:02 Speaker 0] Your mind, you know, I was It was mine. Was ah, similar. I mean, I got injured in college my senior year, had hopes to play in the NFL and completely dashed, went through a pretty long season of depression and battled that and almost felt out of school. I got my stuff together, so to speak and finish school. And I went back to the thing absolutely loved, which was the weight room, and got my first internship under Doc. Yeah, and Colorado, which I won’t say too much about that internship, but I was doing the things that you probably should be doing personal, doing more personal errands and stuff. You could like that younger. But those were the old days. Coach duty. We don’t do that. No more charge listing. So, um so I got cut my teeth with working with every sport cheer palm we worked with back then skiing. I worked with rugby coming in from all over the internationally, and I just had was thrown into this kind of cauldron of sport and training, and we at that time it’s I just started and we’ve had a doctor friend. Hatfield, who passed away recently, would come in and lecture and Dr Charles Daley. And so I was in this kind of hot spot that all this cool stuff was going on and just kind of soaking it in. And then was there worked into a full time position there. It came to Texas in 98 toe work with football, but I’ve always just loved working with other sports. And so I’ve always been a guy that I always wanted another sport because I always learn more from that sport coach and the challenges of the needs for each individual that made me a better coach. I felt like I was growing up, and so that’s always been a passion of mine. So that lead. I did that and kind of got into some things here. Working camps, being director there and internship program. And, uh, against some of the technology kind of came about and moved into a director role in In Where? Matt today. So it’s been It’s been an interesting path. Ah, I think that one thing kind of similar to you guys. I just love working with people. And I think that still drives me. And if I can’t work with people, I’d be miserable. I would be absolutely caged. And why would not like it, So yeah, kind of how it happened for me. Cool. Next question. So thanks for asking. Um, what’s in the future for performance? What do you got See? Coming down the in the in the near future. Five years Innovations.

[0:32:33 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think for the future, for us A recovery. Um, and maybe not so much time in the weight room.

[0:32:41 Speaker 0] I like it. Yeah, I agree.

[0:32:43 Speaker 1] I mean, we always talk about OK, well, you increase strength, but does that help you in performance? And does that hurt you in recovery? So I don’t know whoever came up with the the rule that you had to work out for an hour. I don’t know where that came from, but with Phil, we were looking at lowest dose of medicine or exercise for maximum results. Ah, and we talk about Ickarus all the time flying this close to the sunny as you can without getting burned. So where’s that sweet spot? Great analogy. What’s what’s under prepared and what’s overtrained? We want to avoid both of those things. Yeah,

[0:33:21 Speaker 0] you could point there. That’s what got me in the performance. Really. I have overpowered myself playing mall because I always do is lifting. But my 40 went down explosive. My my performance drop and I was like, What is going on here? And that was really kind of problem solving. That kind of led me to that. So

[0:33:39 Speaker 2] I had the same experience. Is a football player? Yeah, I put on. I think about £30 went off season got SOS much stronger. I remember showing up a training camp and I was d B and ran a 40 I crossed the line and the shock on the coach’s face, I was like, Wow, it must have just crushed that. And, you know, he won. It showed me a for nine. You know, 49 40 is a defensive back, which means, like a You know, the equipment team needs some help because your career is done like so. Yeah, but that was Yeah, I agree. Out of the weight room and figuring out what you need, which might be more on the field stuff. Might b’more, you know, flexibility were Yeah, it’s

[0:34:20 Speaker 0] good.

[0:34:21 Speaker 1] But then, you know, then you’re like, OK, well, are we a re getting ourself, then out of a career path? If there’s less stuff in the weight room, I

[0:34:30 Speaker 2] mean, I think it’s about the term. I think the performance term is is more fitting in that regard, you know, because if you’re performing at a higher level, you might need more conditioning. You might need more strength. You might need more flexible

[0:34:41 Speaker 0] every different now, Yeah, I think that’s kind of what you said. The innovation is not everybody needs to be in the weight room the same out of time. But some may need more, you know? Absolutely. Very. They’re definitely getting to get it dialed in, so to speak. Yeah,

[0:34:55 Speaker 1] yeah, Normally a strength coach or performance coach. Their athletes that can lift the most. You want to see them clean the most, right? But that might not be the best thing for them.

[0:35:04 Speaker 0] I heard a guy Gary Scofield made this point a couple years ago. You know, Gary is a great strength coach, um, works in the high school arena, but I thought, this analogy kind of a piggyback off you hoodie Sometimes. Oftentimes, the kids that love the weight room are not always the best on the court or the field. They probably need a little more time on the cord, a little less time in the weight room. Those who just love the GM and they’re just so gifted may need a little more time in the weight room. I thought that was an interesting insight. You

[0:35:39 Speaker 1] always tend to do what you’re good at.

[0:35:40 Speaker 0] Yeah, that’s it. What I’m good at, I’m comfortable. That’s what I’m doing.

[0:35:44 Speaker 2] I worked with the professional baseball team and and one of their catchers, physically was, was off the charts, leased from a data standpoint in his force production. One of the things that we sat down with him talked about was this exact point that, like, You know, if you want to be a better baseball player, you know, at what point do you need to do less in the weight room? And so he was astute enough to actually change his where his time allotment. And instead of going the weight room, you spent more time watching film on pictures. And now he’s an everyday catcher in the MLB, and it’s because he was put his ego on the weight room aside and regal. Okay, if my real goes to be a better baseball player, that may mean less weight room, more video on my actual sport.

[0:36:27 Speaker 0] It’s good. A good realization. Yeah,

[0:36:30 Speaker 2] and that’s where I think the value of data is it could just be a simple decision. Tree like that, You know, if X then why? I know,

[0:36:38 Speaker 1] and that’s what we’re doing with the catapult now. It’s like, OK, well, just because somebody has a high load number that might not be good. Let’s get let’s get them out of the gym. And then let’s put the people with lower load numbers in the gym, right? And get

[0:36:55 Speaker 0] them more practice. Yeah, good. Yeah, I see that you can just quantify. And I think that’s the coaches have to really gotta face their training plans now.

[0:37:06 Speaker 1] And that’s hard.

[0:37:07 Speaker 0] Yeah, and we’ve not been able to do that. Right?

[0:37:10 Speaker 1] But you know, Coach Smart here. He’s absolutely awesome and wonderful looking for the feedback. And I feel like we’re getting better just based on reading the data.

[0:37:21 Speaker 0] That’s good. I mean, that guys have definitely been doing well here recently, and congrats on that. So we’re definitely

[0:37:27 Speaker 1] We gotta keep rolling.

[0:37:28 Speaker 0] Yeah, one of the time. What a time. One of the, um how would you guys both kind of define this? This podcast, the team behind the team? How would you define or describe this approach to team performance? How would you define or describe that yourself?

[0:37:47 Speaker 1] I like team performance better than high performance.

[0:37:50 Speaker 0] I do you

[0:37:51 Speaker 1] so much better because high performance to get lost in the weeds. You can’t do it in a universe. It, in my opinion, in my opinion, it’s hard to do. Not that you can’t. It’s hard to do in a university setting with so many different teams and philosophies. But the team behind the team, I like that. Like it a lot because there so many, you’re juggling so many balls in the air. And if you have good people that are willing to care and understand the gold, that’s awesome.

[0:38:21 Speaker 0] That’s good. That’s good. A good definition. Coach.

[0:38:23 Speaker 1] I like teen performance, not high performance for the university,

[0:38:28 Speaker 0] saying, What about you? Yeah,

[0:38:31 Speaker 1] I think

[0:38:31 Speaker 2] team performances, um, you know, kind of you alluded to earlier. It’s that balance between, um, you know, the toughness, which a lot of times come out of that commodity. But then also the individualized approach, which is what helps elevate one individual’s performance. To me, it’s team performance is the melding of those two aspects because ultimately you’re playing as a team, so you have to have that toughness, that commodity. But at the same time, each individual’s so different, using technology to make sure that that’s targeted in a very surgical and effective manner.

[0:39:07 Speaker 0] It’s good. What about, um, you made me think so. We were kind of looking at these this team performance model, the positives. Good in it. What have you seen? Coach Judy Feel what? Some challenges. Some cons.

[0:39:22 Speaker 1] I just think communication is the biggest challenge that I always say. No matter how much you communicate your always under communicating or depends on how people give the information or receive it, you never know what people’s experiences are and how they communicate. So, um, I think that’s the major goal. And just making sure that we put the athlete and winning in athlete health centric. Yeah, it’s easy. It’s easy if you can get a team of people that understand that,

[0:39:53 Speaker 0] Yeah, I think the quote. I can’t remember who I love quotes, but it goes something like this. When you get to a place in your life, when you don’t care who gets the credit, there’s nothing you can t right, and I think that’s that’s a change you know, kind of where they’ve always been. This, like one person’s in charge of everything. Now you’ve got all these great minds at the table, and it may change who leads at different times. But you’re pulling in the same direction. Absolutely. Yeah,

[0:40:20 Speaker 1] well, we we won the other night on a buzz reader, and that might have been the most fun in the locker room that I’ve had.

[0:40:27 Speaker 0] The Beatles were also

[0:40:29 Speaker 1] a really long time, and that was everybody having a joint effort. And, you know, obviously the guys competed and the coaches coach, But, gosh, that was so fun. I was so proud. And it was the ugliest basketball game you could probably imagine, but we want in the, um that was kind of like the pinnacle of my career so far at Texas. Was that win the other day unit was So

[0:40:53 Speaker 0] stay with you, right? You take those with you.

[0:40:55 Speaker 1] Yeah. Lasting. There was water dripping down off the ceiling. I mean, everybody was bouncing around and I would just want I needed to make sure nobody got hurt. Nobody get hurt

[0:41:08 Speaker 0] for you have seen that years ago. You want does not get injured in the celebration. Yeah, a tweet. Michael, go. He’s out. No,

[0:41:16 Speaker 1] but I was so proud for everybody with our team from Amy called the Nutritionist. Ah, the athletic trainer, Leif. And just all the support, everything that had gone into that with everybody working together. Ah, of a super proud.

[0:41:32 Speaker 0] And I love the quote twos like, we’re not really here to compete against each other here to complete each other. Yeah, you know where this win win, right? And I think that’s kind of what were you saying? Correct

[0:41:42 Speaker 1] and even Travis. And, you know, the data science, like, um, trying to keep us from being under prepared or over prepared and period izing practice like it was super proud of everybody. That

[0:41:54 Speaker 0] was big time.

[0:41:55 Speaker 1] Got into that? Yeah.

[0:41:56 Speaker 0] Yeah. Baby steps. Um, a little different topic from both of you. Just quickly Hiring Coach. You’ve led departments for years hiring staff. Phil, you started your own business. We’ve had some of these one wonderful talks about personnel. What do you look for when you hire somebody, coach,

[0:42:16 Speaker 1] get people, you can train him in anything. I think my take is a little bit different being a woman in a male dominated field. I just want to hire somebody that’s a servant of assertive enough to come up and shake my hand and introduce himself. I hired a lease, Rodriguez, because she facilitated our meeting and pulled up a chair.

[0:42:36 Speaker 0] She’s a go getter. Yeah,

[0:42:37 Speaker 1] yeah. I mean, I didn’t know. At least I didn’t know what she knew or whatever, but that was the only reason.

[0:42:43 Speaker 0] Yeah, we appreciate you looking out for two. She she had incredible experience here. Brokerage

[0:42:48 Speaker 1] Jan Todd emailed about it to

[0:42:51 Speaker 0] just a small, legendary coach topic. That’s good story.

[0:42:56 Speaker 1] Um, but yeah, I look for people people for sure.

[0:43:00 Speaker 0] It’s good. What about you feel?

[0:43:02 Speaker 2] Yeah, I think that’s probably at least is the CEO of the area have struggled with the most last few years. Um uh, just just assumed that everybody was going to come in and work hard. And I think for me, the values of of a sports organization or company leased the way I was raised form or what You put on a T shirt for your football team that offseason, you know, like only the strong survive, right? And it was just some sort of catch line. So, yeah, I never respected. I never respected values or mottoes because of that. That’s just kind of the way I was exposed in them. And now, after hiring and making some misfires, I really appreciate values as a core, you know, aspect of how you hire, you know, and and you want a diverse and very inclusive ord. But there’s some values for each word that you have to decide these air non negotiable, like these are what we’re about. We want people to be about those things from different areas, but we can’t ever sacrifice those. And that’s been a big lesson for me on the hiring front. Um, and you can’t have obviously a long list of values, you know, A few you know, for for us. You know, we stole the ah, think it’s a dosek ease guy. Thirsty is one of ours, you know, Stay thirsty. My friends like these. Curious, You know, that’s that’s key. You know, the other one is purpose, you know, um, back to our common of having that passion usually comes from pain, and then the other when we look for is trust, you know, just a teammate that you can trust to help you or to delegate things, too. Um, and so we kind of rely on the street values and we hire. And that’s been a big shift for us,

[0:44:44 Speaker 0] your core values. That’s interesting, right? I mean, who He kind of hit it right there to like you did good people. You know, the end of the day, you’re in a coaching profession. If you don’t care about people. Yeah. What are you doing in here? That’s right. And

[0:44:58 Speaker 1] in their coaches out there, that don’t ko

[0:45:00 Speaker 0] No question. They have their own agenda and they’ll step over whoever they got our own. Who are they need to to get where they’re going to get. And you look at core values. I think you go back to hiring on paper. Somebody looks awesome, but they may be a They maybe have the credibility in the professionalism, but they may not have the internal character right to work for you or for your staff because they don’t care about people. I don’t have the core value. And so when they come in Hey, great sharp, Very smart coach, but not good, coach. But not the best fit. Yep. I think that’s the part that sometimes it’s hard to Teoh figure out. And I love the behavioral interviewing stuff that’s kind of going on of I was listening to something yesterday own just hiring about instead of doing interviews like given somebody something a task to do and see how they work through that task.

[0:45:56 Speaker 1] Let’s coach a team. Yeah, just Here’s your interview. Let me see how you interact and see who they say hello to our see what they do. They, you know, place a piece of garbage on the floor, see if they pick that out.

[0:46:09 Speaker 0] Yeah, it’s good. Yeah. Yeah, that’s Ah, Leave it down. Hey, you didn’t get a coach passed. They failed,

[0:46:16 Speaker 1] Teoh. It’s how you interact with that. Ah, I guess the people maybe outside of what you’re in,

[0:46:28 Speaker 0] it’s good. Um, like I got one question to hoodie. I’ve been dying to ask you. Um, no, this is this is one, uh, you know, my dad of four daughters and, you know, being ah, strong, successful female. Um, talk about our profession. Some young female string coaches that are out there. They’re listening to this. They’re looking up to you, Coach, um, border some challenges. Maybe they’re gonna face. And how would you help them navigate that career?

[0:47:02 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think we touched upon a little bit yesterday, and you touched upon it today. It’s like you got to know who you are. And how do you know or how do you figure out who you are? And Phil said it. You said it. You gotta understand what your core values are. You know, I think from fell and whether those aren’t just fills corporate values, those air hiss, you know. So, um, write it down like, right, three, and put it on your phone and go back to those. And don’t care what anybody else thinks about. Stick to who you are and stick to how you want to run things cause women tend to care what people think about

[0:47:45 Speaker 0] they do. I mean, especially social media

[0:47:47 Speaker 1] rise due to its anybody,

[0:47:50 Speaker 0] but we’re that we’re in the age of how many likes can I get? Right, But UNLV Coach, if you care too much about what people think, you won’t ever do anything. Yeah,

[0:48:00 Speaker 1] no. And you know this social media stuff, like if somebody says something about, you know, something that I put out on social media. I’ll call him. I’ll be like, What do you want to talk about? Like don’t attack our program with a 22nd clip of what we do in the weight room and question what we do and you’re not in it. It’s like a fan at a basketball game like you don’t coach, you know you’re not in it. How can you? Zero context. Yeah, How can you judge what’s going on? So I’ll call. People will say, I can’t believe you called me and I’m Michael that Why not? Let’s talk it out. So I would say, Be your own coach and and be the coach that you want to be be the coach that you you want. These kids are that you wanted authentic. Yeah,

[0:48:49 Speaker 0] What about a more seasoned coach? Transitioned career transitions. What’s been kind of your thought processes is you’ve made transitions. What? It’s

[0:48:58 Speaker 1] like mine. Personal a

[0:49:02 Speaker 0] Z. You’ve gotten older.

[0:49:03 Speaker 1] I would still say the same thing. I’m not gonna change who I am. Ah, Do I need to fit into the environment? Yeah. I’m not gonna change my philosophy. Really? If you’re changing your philosophy, then you’ve got to really think about those your right standards. Yeah.

[0:49:21 Speaker 0] Good. Yeah, I think two is. You know, as I’ve gotten older in my family of, you know, you definitely. You just have better. I think. Perspective. I think things that may be used to bother me when I was younger. Not a big deal. Now, you just have a little bit more time in perspective and understanding at the big picture. And I think that’s kind of helped me some.

[0:49:43 Speaker 1] Yeah, I still have those standards of beyond time in the weight room where the gear do this. That and the other. But if somebody is not giving, like, the effort that you want your like, Okay. Why isn’t that happening? What’s going on?

[0:49:54 Speaker 0] There’s something going on. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Awesome. We’re almost at the end of our show here. Real quick. Just professional development. What do you do for professional development? We’ll start with you Feel?

[0:50:07 Speaker 2] Yeah, I think the problem. The three, I guess if we’re say three things, I mean, one is is talking with colleagues networking, networking. You know, sometimes that networking word gets it. It becomes a bad word like there’s no you’re just doing it together, likes or like connections or somebody, right? Yeah, but I think it’s so much more about learning their perspectives cause we’re all learning at such a fast pace. Something thes days. Um, so that’s by far and away the largest one. I think the other pieces is reading, reading books, love. Yeah, about just different, because again, you’re getting different perspectives and even especially if one’s you may not agree with just to see where they’re coming from. Um, you know, and I’d say the the the third one is continuing to try toe, Um, I guess define. You know what? What you want to get out of your time, You know, on this earth, because that’s the biggest limiting factor for all of us this time and how you spend it. I’m constantly reevaluating every week. What a lot men in my spending in certain areas because ultimately your life is just in accumulation of how you’ve chosen to spend your time. Um and I think from freshman development standpoint, that’s huge.

[0:51:28 Speaker 0] Coach Rudy, what about you?

[0:51:30 Speaker 1] Yeah, I agree. I would like to read more I id rather experienced things. You know, um and, well, yeah, that’s who I am again. I would love to read more. I just I wish I could have the discipline to do. It’s not about you. It’s not. Um, but I would rather go out and, you know, experience it, then Then read about it and then, yeah, networking speaking with college, it colleagues. And if I had questions on anything, just be willing to call anybody up and go visit. Hm?

[0:52:03 Speaker 0] Yeah. I mean, you’ve always had a growth mindset far as long as I’ve known you. So you’re always you’re learning, e. I think it’s you’ve had some just phenomenal teachers and professors around you,

[0:52:13 Speaker 1] right? And Jerry Martin was unbelievable. Like the curiosity and the questions that he would ask her that we would ask him. I mean, you talk about different tangents, you’re going on, you know?

[0:52:26 Speaker 0] And I think you know, to kind of summarize that I think you what? Here. But he said you gotta reach out and intentionally seek people out for mentoring and for just knowledge. Absolutely. And just have stay thirsty, theater term, and just have it

[0:52:40 Speaker 1] comes in waves, though to, you know, this is the first time that I’ve been able to really sit down in 26 years and really focus on one thing. You know, awesome Coach, Right? So it’s like it’s been a breath of fresh air to not have to juggle all those sports and all those athletes and oversee all that stuff. It’s been nice toe come in and as, ah, with a bird’s eye view and say, Okay, well, this is what we’ve done in the past. What? Could we change here or what? Could we be better at here or what are they really good at? Or, you know, it’s It’s been a great experience learning experience for me, but a lot of people would say, Well, why did you leave Kansas? He had such a great thing there. Yeah, we did. But I wanted more challenges and, you know, it was just It’s been a great move for me.

[0:53:34 Speaker 0] Yeah, I know, I know. I’m thankful. I’m grateful that you came on down to the 51 to coach,

[0:53:39 Speaker 1] and I appreciate everything you’ve ever been. You know, your doors are always open and you guys were great. So

[0:53:44 Speaker 0] Yeah. We’re blessed to have you here. Unfortunate. So glad you in Austin. Well, hey, that’s going to wrap up our time on the team behind the team. Podcast. Our guest today, Andrea hoodie coach thinks again. And Dr Phil Wagner. We’re gonna sign off from here, Coach who to give us a hook. Him today,

[0:54:02 Speaker 1] huh? Come, baby,

[0:54:03 Speaker 0] come horns And we’re going todo

[0:54:07 Speaker 1] to now feel

[0:54:08 Speaker 2] just a hook

[0:54:09 Speaker 1] him hook em horns, hook em

[0:54:10 Speaker 2] horns. Here

[0:54:11 Speaker 0] we go. Have little conviction Will take you

[0:54:16 Speaker 2] back a little bit.

[0:54:17 Speaker 0] All right?

[0:54:17 Speaker 1] Hey, don’t let him do that cause he’s got wing tips on. So don’t say this county’s wingtips. Yeah.

[0:54:23 Speaker 2] Is that in

[0:54:23 Speaker 1] Texas thing? No. It’s, like,

[0:54:25 Speaker 0] get you some boots.

[0:54:26 Speaker 2] Yeah. Yeah, that’s some red wings or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:54:31 Speaker 0] We don’t want California to kick you out from being the Texas, but we got love for Callie List that we love Callie. So Hey, it’s been rial. It’s been a great conversation to incredible minds into awesome people. The team behind the team pockets, they will catch you on the flip side. Have a great week. Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to this episode of the team behind the team podcast for future episodes, Go to iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast or Stitch. We definitely want to keep having great guests on the show and great content. So if you have a moment, please go to iTunes, leave the rating and review and let us know how we’re doing. I’m Donny made and thanks so much for tuning in