E 14 | Dr. James Bray: Sport Physician

[0:00:01 Speaker 0] Welcome to the team behind the team podcast. I am your host, Dani May Thistles. The monthly show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to ethics, performance, strength, conditioning, sports, medicine, sports, science, mental health and wellness and sports nutrition. Welcome back to the team behind the team. Podcast. I’m your host. Dani may been, man. I cannot believe we are already in December, Man, The holidays are honest, but that’s all right. We’ve made it through the fall. Hey, we’ve got ah, special co host today in the house that’s gonna be helping with Show one of our staff members, the UT athletic performance Staff Coach Joe Cross six. Hello, Coach Joe. How’s it going? Glad to have you on the show, Joe. I know we’re getting different staff in here from time to time so everybody could get to know him. But, man, today it’s been kind of Ah, kind of a buildup for this episode this month. This shows the team behind the team. We could not think of a better guest. Then we’re gonna have on the show for you today. And, man, I’ve been excited about this for a while. We’ve talked about it. We finally caught this guy. He’s been busy going through the pandemic and dealing with and kind of keeping us all saying and safe without further ado, everybody. Welcome to the show. Dr James Bray, our team physician that you tease. Hello, Doctor Bray. Hello. [0:01:33 Speaker 1] Thanks for having me. Yes, sir. [0:01:35 Speaker 0] Way finally got you free for a moment. I mean, it’s rare to catch Dr Breyer. He’s not got something going on. So, Doctor Bray, thank you so much for making time. I know it’s gonna be a great show today. It’s a pleasure. Well, Doctor Bray will jump right in. And I really want to just give you time to, you know, on the show, we’ve had nutritionist sports scientists, strength coaches. Uh, man, this is a really special episode in that, you know, when you look at the team behind the team, our student athletes, I mean, you’re really In my opinion, you’re like the engine that, like, if you guys don’t do your job, we can’t train them physically. They can’t do nutrition, you can’t treat them. And so you’re kind of that hub. That man, we all go to that. Nobody sees really right. Nobody sees you. But, man, you’re the engine that makes it the whole thing. Run. So go into your story today, and kinda. How did you get started in the medical profession? How did you kind of lead into sport right up to you to kind of take us through the whole thing and give us that that that story, please? [0:02:33 Speaker 1] Sure. So I always knew that I was gonna go into something in the scientific field. Both my parents are Ph. D s. My mom is in biochemistry. My father is in physics, so I pretty much had the basic sciences covered. And the one thing they said that I could never do would be a doctor. They thought I was too squeamish. Apparently, I didn’t like the sight of goats being butchered when I was like a six year old. So that kind of stuck in my craw like one of the things that gets me going. If somebody says I can’t do something that I want to show them, they’re wrong. And and so that was always in the back of my mind. And then I was greatly influenced by my dad’s family physician. Dr Crawford in Cedar Hill, Texas. He saw my dad and my whole dad, my dad’s whole family. He saw me when I was a kid. He was so calm and so reassuring. And I thought, you know, I really wanna be a Nen fluent like that in somebody’s life. You know that that you know, when things are going bad, somebody can step in and you make what’s wrong, right? Or if everything’s okay and you’re just worried can calm you down. And I thought that that is somebody I wanna be like. So, you know, it came time came to college. I actually grew up New York, Toronto, Canada, but came to U T in 1990 just in love with the place from the first time I saw the LBJ Library and so decided this is what I was gonna come. Came here with the goal going to med school and got to u t San Antonio in it. I went to U T San Antonio with the idea that was gonna be a family physician. Uh, just like Dr Crawford. Well, I got there and there was Walter. Kalmbach was there. He was a primary care sportsmen, and I never even heard of that. But as soon as I heard about, you know, sports medicine with primary care, I thought, that’s perfect because I played a lot of sports in high school, which tells you I wasn’t really good at any of them. But I really enjoy, you know, competing and and pushing. And so the thought of being able to be involved with sports and medicine Well, that’s just, you know, the perfect marriage. So when I went Thio decide where to go for residency, I picked a place. It’s a North Carolina Moses Cone family practice, and Dr Bert Fields is a mentor of mine, and he’s, Ah, primary care sports Med Doc, since you know, before there was such a thing and went out there for four years, got trained up, came back my intention. That was to be, you know, a small town doctor who could also hang out high school football games and take care of injuries and things that come up. So just, you know, normal life things happen wound up close toe Austin again living in Georgetown, Texas, just north of Austin, and the team position of the Time mark tax. A asked if I could help cover a few games and you know, he knew he knew my allegiance to you tea and of course I jumped at the chance. And so then, in 2000 and 12, when Dr Task decided to take a different job, he advised that I apply for this job and at the time I was a little hesitant. But boy, after the first week, I knew that this is what I was born to do. So I really loved working here. I love my job. It really melds a lot of the things that I like to do, which is try to be a calming, reassuring presence in people’s lives and at the same time be involved with sports and athletes and and also get to push the boundaries a little bit. Thio you know, to find out. You know, uh, you know where Where can we find some advantages and training or nutrition? That’s where you know, being immersed with experts such as yourself and our nutritionists, really you know, professionally is very satisfying on DSO. So yeah, that’s how I came. Thio get to do what I do today [0:06:29 Speaker 0] the guy. You one of your mentors? You mentioned he was in kind of sports mad. I mean, did he have a little influence on kind of when you were making that transition into sports? [0:06:38 Speaker 1] Uh, yeah. Like which one? There’s Doctor call market, San Antonio. But Bert Fields is the one who Really? Yeah, he’s the one out of North Carolina and anybody in the primary care sports field sports medicine field knows Bert Fields. I mean, he has been so influential, and he really brings a level of, uh, how shall I say, Like a high level of medicine to sports. I mean, he was the one that, you know, started using ultrasound, uh, to diagnose, uh, musculoskeletal injuries, because you can see them dynamically. And he a lot of cardio cardiac testing, stress testing, but, you know, changing the parameters so that they’re more appropriate for athletes. Uh, not just, you know, every day, patients. I mean, you know, you have to kind of adjust things when you’re dealing with an athletic population because, uh, because, like, as he pointed out, like he’s had marathon runners who who could, uh, run the normal tests and not have any problems. But if you adjust the test to try to pick it up, you find out they have blockages. They’ve just had, uh, you know, not training to get around it. So things like that he really brought an integrity to the sports field that I really appreciate with his influence. [0:08:00 Speaker 0] Thanks. Yeah, that’s [0:08:01 Speaker 2] cool. So, uh, we all know you we we love seeing around especially, you know, prior to covitz, seeing the way you’re coming down, working out. But, you know, I think what I’d really like to know is, you know, what’s your day to day like? It’s already shadow you. Um you know, what would I see you be doing? Uh, you know what? What teams would you be working with? You know, more consistently. [0:08:22 Speaker 1] Yeah. So there. Well, that’s that’s easily divided in the pre covert and post co vid. So the pre covert era my day would, uh, be spent most days spent in clinic, I would be here, like, nine to noon. And then again, 1 to 5 most days, uh, seeing, uh, either musculoskeletal injuries or, uh, you know, common primary care illnesses. Um, there would be a NAFTA noon. Ah, week that I would meet with the different performance teams and we go over athletes of interest. Andi way would coordinate our care. Um, there would be, uh, several events at night that I would then cover. So after wrap up in clinic, I’d go cover you in the fall. We cover any home volleyball game, any home soccer match, or ah, home in a way, football aan den in the winter that would beam or the basketballs and then in the spring and beam or the softball and baseball. So, you know, I basically spend my time in clinic during the day and then in the evenings, um, several nights a week, you know, covering games which essentially involves just sitting there watching a game, but being ready to switch it in tow. Dr. Mode, if somebody gets hurt. Um, there was one experience I had, where I was covering. Ah, doubleheader for baseball. So I was there all day, uh, working quote unquote. And then I got home, fought down on the couch, and I think our softball team was being televised, and I just sat there and turn it on and started watching it. And I thought, uh if I’m gonna do this on my spare time and it’s a good thing they get paid for it during the day. So So that’s what I knew. I knew it was doing what I love to do because it seems I do it even when I have time off. So in the case, Post post Kobe, it now involves a lot more zoom meetings and, uh, you know, you always looking for a silver lining. And if there is one, I’ve gotten to know a lot more people throughout the organization because of all the extensive planning and preparation that we’ve been doing to try to keep our athletes and staff safe. So now a lot of my mornings were spent on various zoom meetings with either the athletic director’s here or the athletic trainers in our sportsmen department or in the Big 12. I’m on a couple of different committees and we meet, uh, you know, an hour on Mondays and our on Thursdays again just tryingto catch up on what covert is throwing our way and how we’re gonna plan Thio, mitigate for it and and move forward, trying to keep everybody safe and healthy. Um, you know a lot of those meetings. I mean there. There’s a reason that we’re trying to go forward with that. And I don’t want that to be lost in the the the chaos or the anxiety that is Cove in. And that is that there is a benefit to exercise. There’s a benefit for team sports, and I think truly there’s a benefit for for collegiate athletes to be participating in their sport on dso Thio. To take that away because you’re worried about Kobe introduces risks that you weren’t anticipating, whether their behavioral health, whether they’re just physical health, you know, I think that you are endeavors here. U t and in the conference have gone a long way towards trying Thio, maintain some sense of normalcy for for our athletes, but also maintain their health and both mental and physical. [0:12:05 Speaker 0] That’s a good point about you know, you don’t you kind of take that for granted The piece where kids and I think we’ve seen that on the performance side Dr Brady with, you know, just being back on campus, we’re still we’re still practicing and doing stuff in our little bubbles, right? But kids are not out walking around like they did it class because they’re all on zoom virtual classes. And you something that simple that you take for granted still has a effect on their bodies that they’re not burning them in these calories. So we’ve gotta find creative ways to kinda keep them engaged, So yeah, it’s definitely a great point. You made that. You know, I think a lot of people sometimes miss, because it’s definitely there’s a lot more to this than what you think. So, [0:12:48 Speaker 1] Yeah, taking it away, there’s a taking away their their quote unquote normal life comes at a cost. And that shouldn’t be, uh, [0:12:56 Speaker 0] for gotten. Yeah. Good. Um, you kind of Touchstone this a little earlier. But talk about your wife or just a quick, quick second. Why did you get into medicine? But more specifically, what was it that drew you? You said you were hesitant about the U. T job just a little bit before you applied. But what was that? Why, that kinda drew you into that? What was that? Uh, [0:13:22 Speaker 1] good question. So Well, I alluded to before the initial one. The one that got me piqued. My interest initially was that I was told I couldn’t do it. Then it turned into I wanna be a net benefit in the world. And I was looking for ways Thio connect with people and to, uh, you know, calm anxieties. I think that, uh, having skills and knowledge and experience that you can share with other people on let them, you know, that brings them some sense of comfort, especially in times where they’re troubled, either physically or mentally or both. Uh, that really, uh, keeps me going. You know, I think there are some doctors who really enjoy the challenge, that the puzzle of medicine they wanna be, you know, like the doctor house types that that really wanna. I mean, I know he’s fictional, but you know that that character of of warning, you know, the the heart of the puzzle, the better. Whereas I tend to be on the other end of the spectrum. I mean, I enjoy a good, you know, medical mystery as much as anybody, but I get just as much satisfaction for from somebody coming to me with something that I know is completely benign, but they’re worried about it and having an opportunity to to be able to to calm somebody down and allay their fears and let them know that it’s gonna be all right. Uh, that means as much to me. And my practice of medicine is the problem solving does so that I really find drives me, Andi just being part of a team, which I think what initially gave me some hesitation about coming to you t was that I had a lot of job satisfaction where I was before. And, you know, if you have something good going, you always, like, hesitate, like one of my giving up to go do this. Uh, but I knew within the first, you know, week of being here the team atmosphere here, which, you know in retrospection, have been surprising in a, you know, an athletic setting. But just the collaboration here, uh, I find second to none. I think that the culture here of communication and working together for a common goal and there’s no, uh, individual glory. We’re all trying toe help. These kids do the best they can. And when I say the best they can, I don’t just mean athletically, but academically. I mean, it’s just really gratifying. Thio see these kids, uh, come in as wide eyed freshman, and they leave, uh, you know, a little more savvy about the world, a little more savvy about their health, a little more savvy about their sport on the radio kind of tackle the world, you know, in the next step. I mean, there’s a lot of satisfaction in that for me as well. And that’s the another one of my wise, Um, the I was telling you that, you know, one of my goals was to be like a doctor Crawford, and be a small town doctor. And it occurred to me not too long ago that I have carved that out here to a certain extent. I mean, I have a small town of 500 athletes who who considered me to be there, go to a doctor, and my door is always open. And they come to me with problems big and small, and I find that extremely satisfying. [0:16:42 Speaker 2] You mentioned a couple of things there, Doctor Bray. You know, being a part of the team and being there for the athletes. And, you know, how would you define? You know, the performance team model and more specifically, maybe with no co staff and coaches eighties nutritionist, um, are than just between you and athletes. [0:17:02 Speaker 1] Yeah, So that z, uh, one of things I find very exciting here. The model I came from is, you know, the doctor. The team eyes the doctors at the head of the team, and everybody else does what the doctor says. And the model here is much more. We rely on each other’s expertise. And, uh, it’s one of those cases where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I mean, I think that you know when when, like, for instance, strike the conditioning staff. Um, you know, I rely on y’all to tell me how to get somebody to that next level. I mean, somebody’s injured, and our trainings get them back to normal. But when our athletes aren’t normal, our athletes, as I alluded to before they’re they’re performing at a much higher level than normal. And, you know, the medical books don’t cover that. I mean, some do, but that’s not classic training. And so being able thio, get them to a certain point, but then rely on on strength conditioning staff to say you know, What is this person need to be working on to get to that next level to get back to where you know they can perform, you know, at a double a level, Um, that that’s part of the performance team and that, you know, goes across dieticians that goes across athletic trainers. I mean, I’m were always counting on each other’s expertise and opinions and eyes and ears. I mean, we, you know, you all looking an athlete, move and see one thing. I look at them and see another and are combined observations can come up with a plan that’s much better than either one of us individually could Dio. And so that’s where I see that our performance team really shining here because we have ample opportunity given Just are, uh, propping quickly to one another, you know, and also the the ability that we have in the culture. We have to communicate [0:18:56 Speaker 0] za good, I think, to kind of alluded Joe’s question, too. I mean, again, you cross over so many different relational areas with coaches with with our staff of form like strength condition, uh, nutrition, mental health, sports mad from just from your perspective, and experience, uh, what have been some, like key traits that you’ve seen in team cultures, that some of the most successful or more more successful should say teams and staff. What have you seen? Kind of What kind of pops out in your mind? Uh, those top traits. That qualities that you’ve seen that, you know, that would would work the best for being successful. [0:19:39 Speaker 1] Are you talking about like, professional teams, like, uh, like health care teams or performance teams? You’re talking about actual, like student athletes, like so [0:19:49 Speaker 0] I think two layers would be, um my curiosity is like, performance team, like, you know, string staff medical. You kind of talked about that a little bit already. But then also, the sport team itself here, like you. T like what? Have you seen some of the better teams? Like, what do you see Traits in that team. Culture helps them be successful as a as a team doctor [0:20:11 Speaker 1] s. So the performance team part first, Um, I think that part of, um what leads to success is that we generally speaking and part of our culture is thio work in the background like nobody is doing this to promote themselves. Nobody’s like out in front or, you know, arm in arm with the athlete, you know, on on TV saying, Look what we did. It’s more like we’re working in the background and letting the athlete, uh, you know, be out front, be center stage. And we’re, you know, communicating behind the background, but letting them, uh, take that on because, honestly, it also gives the athlete ownership. I mean, it puts the athletes still in control and were there in the supportive role. But we’re not, you know, they’re not dependent on us there. Uh, you know, uh, you know, they use us Thio, help them get to that next stage. But they can also you know, the most gratifying things when they don’t need us anymore, and they can go on and do it on their own. Um, the our ability to communicate. I think I lived into that before, and, uh, just I know from my point of view, it’s, uh, from a physician point of view, it’s to stay out of the way. I mean, honestly, not too, You know, uh, to realize that that, as you know, the m d behind my name can be intimidating to some people. And so a Not so let that be because I want to know what other people are thinking. If I interject, you know my opinion. Sometimes that’s gonna quashed other people’s perspective. And that’s that’s what makes us strong is the different perspectives. Um, and frankly, you know, uh, I have seen that happen with some of my colleagues where, you know, we are, as a physicians were normally paid to give our opinion. And so too often, more than many Thio throw it out there and a drop of a hat. And I think that, you know, having the ability to listen to each other. I mean, truly listen and not just talk past each other as a team really makes us the performance team stronger. Um, because then you really get buy in and to people who are collaborating on something versus to people who are trying to convince each other that there point of view is right, that’s the those communication skills and communication skills include listening more than talking on, then being able to be humble in the face of you know, the challenges that we’re facing and yeah, especially boy. I tell you what, if I didn’t know that before code that I am, I have been humbled multiple times by this fan Temic. And so that a lesson that no, I’ve learned, you know, in the past six months, another silver lining again. Um, sports teams. What I’ve seen here is, you know, the athletic teams is when their their student led. I mean, you know, the coach, um, is there providing instruction and providing motivation, but well, I I tell you what. There’s something magical when you see, uh, sports like the athletes take over themselves and start policing themselves and start holding each other accountable. It just it takes it to the next level. [0:23:37 Speaker 0] Good. Thank you, Doctor. [0:23:40 Speaker 2] Well, Doc, you built a lot of trust with, you know, the staff and a lot of reporter with the athletes as well. And, you know, as a physician, what’s your approach like, how have you done that successfully over your time at Texas? You know, whether it’s getting an athlete to trust you when they come to the training table or getting a staff member to trust you know, your opinions. [0:23:59 Speaker 1] I think I would like to think it’s because I try toe listen toe to what’s going on behind the words that they’re saying, Um, you know, like, for instance, with somebody’s coming in, um, insisting they need an m r I you know, when I don’t think they need it as opposed to just saying no, you don’t need that trying to delve into, like, what? What is driving this? Why do you feel like you need this memory? You know, if you’re gonna address that problem and sometimes they’re right. Honestly, sometimes if you give somebody a chance and you say, You know, I don’t think, you know why do you think you need them or I and they have a good reason. And if you’re willing to say, okay, now I get it. Let’s do that, then that I think build some trust on then, um, yeah, and then just being willing. Thio, listen to the opinion of the person that is coming to either the athlete. I always try toe end every visit with a question that was taught to me in residency and that is have I addressed you know what you thought you needed today like that? It was there something on your mind that you think you needed that I didn’t talk about Because oftentimes, you know, somebody will sit there, especially freshman, you know, younger athletes and they come in, you know, with headaches or whatever the problem is. And you just launched into what you would normally do for for, say, headaches. And you find out that wasn’t what they were there for their you know, they’re not actually worried about headaches and so giving, ah, chance to to have somebody explain to you what it is that they truly want and then addressing that. And even if I don’t think it’s the right thing, at least it gives me an opportunity to explain them. Why a supposed to you know? Then somebody leaving saying he didn’t even listen to me or he didn’t know. He doesn’t always talking about on dso I really think that listening eyes a skill that it’s hard to practice especially, you know, we get busy. We got zoom meetings to get to. You know, you’re looking at somebody You think I know what your problem is? We could just get that knocked out and taking the time. Thio, make yourself pause and say, You know what? What is this? What about this? Is troubling you? And how can I help address that? I think that helps really build a trust, and the athletes know that. That’s what I’m here for. It’s not just a pebble medicine or just thio write prescriptions or order tests. It’s that actually address what’s troubling? [0:26:37 Speaker 0] Yeah, I could see how that would especially like you said, younger kids, younger athletes, that air deer in the headlights. You think they came in for one thing, they leave and like, they got a completely different experience And, um, you know, message than what you actually thought you got. So it za great advice today. I mean, because I mean it really just be able to read people on just kind of and again, I think that, like you just said, it takes time for people to learn how to communicate and kind of lower their guard a little bit and open up to So but But you gotta be patient when people like you said so that’s good. Um, next question I have this is probably one of my favorite ones. Um, not that we would ever have any Texas. We never would. Of course. Right. But, you know, just watching you over the years, Doctor Bray. I just feel like you’ve done, you know, you just have. Like you said, I think you said earlier that calming presence to you. How do you have you dealt with at a big school like Texas? High pressure, high expectations all the time. How have you dealt with, Like, really tough, demanding coaches competitive coaches? That man, they’re fighting the win. And you may have to go and give information about an athlete that, Hey, they may not be able to go now. How How have you done that? So masterly. Like what? Have you what’s kind of secret sauce to that, Doc? [0:28:04 Speaker 1] I’ve heard of coaches like that. I don’t know. Yeah, I’m here. I read about it. What? Yeah, of course. I mean, first of all, um, if you’re a coach and that’s what you’re passing it about, then you’re gonna be driving. I mean, otherwise you shouldn’t, You know, driving personality. You’re always looking, you know, Where can the improvement be made? I mean, that’s just what you know. Coaches are supposed to be, and so just realizing that first of all, like there No, no matter the situation. Ah, good coaches always looking for a situation and how it could be made better. And they’re not looking at, you know, uh, what, what you’ve done so far to get them as good as they are or as good as you know, a situation is they’re always looking at that last 2%. Yeah, it could be 98% good. And then look at that last 2%. And so you gotta understand that that’s where they’re gonna be coming from. And that’s their job. I mean, that’s that’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s what we want them to do. Um, So the way that I, um, get through that or I tryto communicate with any coach like that is something that was again tried to me early on, which, which made no sense to me at the time why they were telling me this, but it has proven to be one of the tenants, the position, I think should live by, no matter what specialty that you’re in. And that is always do what’s best for the patient. So the patient you have in front of you. If you’re trying to figure out what to do in any given situation, doing what’s best for that individual is should be your North Star should be what you’re going. And so I realized that the you know a coach has a game to worry about and who’s gonna win the game is gonna lose the game. That’s not my problem. My problem is the individual who right in front of me who needs my help, and I’m gonna do the best I can that individual And honestly, if that’s the goal that is always defendable and no coaches going thio contradict that. I mean, they calm down or, you know, not that they would get riled up, but, you know, they they see if you can explain that to them, they get. And then, you know, thankfully we’ve had Coach is a Texas who understand that that the individual athletes is important and you know, of course, a coach’s job is to worry about wind losses and, you know, trying to do what’s best for the entire team because that’s their job. But my job is to pay attention. Thio, the one athlete, was put in front of me and is my patient. [0:30:43 Speaker 0] It’s good advice. Good stuff. Thanks, Doc. Well, shifting [0:30:47 Speaker 2] gears a little bit. Uh, Doc, where you see the future of medicine in sport settings? Are there any major innovations or advances that, you know, it could impact how athletes are cared for? [0:30:58 Speaker 1] Yeah. I mean, I don’t wanna sound like I’m, uh, gonna be using the next major performance enhancing, uh, drugs or something, but, uh, but, uh, yeah, so I think that genetics is gonna be huge. And I think that being able to tailor a training program to some of the specific genetics is gonna be the next next level just across the board sports medicine. I mean, I think that from my time here, I’ve seen quick twitch athletes who, you know, if you try to train them the same way that you would do with some or, ah, you know, ah, grinder that you’re gonna you’re gonna break them down, and but you don’t know who they are like it’s hard to know who other than just having a got feeling for it. But I think that we’re going to get to the point where you know, we’re checking. Ah, blood test when they get here, and we’re gonna have genetic markers that they’re going to say. Okay. This person? Yeah, they should do intense exercise three times a week, and that’s it. And that you’re going to get the best performance out of this genetic profile by doing it that way. Whereas, you know, this person there are grinder. They’re not gonna You mean you’re not gonna wow you by their their jumping skills or their flash? But you couldn’t Every day, an hour in the way room, and they’re going to make it up. You know, that way because everybody could take it. So I think that there’s gonna be, ah, lot of ways to tailor how to train and, frankly, how to rehab. Well, based on genetic information, [0:32:39 Speaker 2] Yeah, that was me. Like, my my follow on is is how would that affect, you know, say an athlete breaks their leg, you know? What would that also affect the recovery? [0:32:49 Speaker 1] Yeah, I think so. I think we’re gonna have a much better idea who is a quick healer. Who is. You know, somebody who has more loose ligaments. Eso you have tow compensate for that with muscle tone. I think that, you know, there’s just gonna be, ah, lot information that we’re going to be able to categorize with relatively cheap genetic profile and be able to really tailor, uh, sports thio and rehab and training to their individual genetic type. I mean, I think already we sort of seeing forays into this with just general medicine, you know, like the cholesterol types. And, you know, certain types of myopathy, like certain types of muscle disorders on, I think that it’s just a matter of time for that envelope. Just keep and pushed back and back until we’re dealing with a population that you would otherwise consider to be normal. They’re not pathologic per se, but were still able to profile. Uh, you know what? What? Training or rehab? Best for them. [0:33:53 Speaker 0] I’ll tell you, that’s interesting. You say that. I mean, that would definitely genetics. You start talking about that that would play. You start talking about recruiting and development, man, that changes the whole ballgame. You start getting kinda be able to peel back the layers and look into the DNA of what people are. Not only they have, but what are they potential what they could Could be one day, you know? [0:34:14 Speaker 1] Yeah. Oh, yeah. There’s definitely ethical questions to be answered. As we get into that realm on, uh, smarter people than me will have to decide. I’m just excited to see how how it developed. [0:34:33 Speaker 0] It’s amazing. Yeah, it’s good. Um, so just again knowing you doctor Bray over the years, you know, observing and just relationship I’ve had with you’ve always been a guy I’ve always admired in the sense of you always seem curious. And you have, like, this I feel like you got this growth mindset you’re always trying to learn not just from medicine but other areas, so that you’re well rounded as a team, doc. And I think that’s unique. I mean, even watching you train and the passion you have for for lifting and training and running and for your own health and fitness has been great. But what are some? What are some things you do to you? Got any routines or resource is you use to keep learning and growing and expanding your knowledge. What do you do for that, Doctor Bray? [0:35:21 Speaker 1] Um, well, one eyes a curiosity lead me. Uh, something if something piques. My interest in this is something I’ve learned my wife. But, uh, you can learn a lot if you just, you know, answer the questions that your own brain is putting in your head. A little side story. We were on vacation. Newlyweds were on vacation. I think we were in 1000 Mexico. And she had some question about opera singer. And this was pre like iPhone days pre just about free Internet. And we she made me drive over to the Towers Public Library so she could go look it up like we want government Jason. And she could not let this go until she went looked it up. So I’m not that passionate about it. But I do like to follow, you know, questions where they leave me and so assed faras research. I mean, honestly, you know, everybody knows that Google is a great resource. You just have to build the horse out. What’s your sources? Are, you know, and be able to see what’s just going on the Internet and what could be trusted, what the sources of that material are that takes practice. There is ah, medical website that I go to frequently called up to date. Andi. Uh, it’s Ah, uh, excellent source were positions and anybody in health care really don’t look up. Well, what’s what’s the latest? And, you know, people, uh, the authors update that regularly. Um, but like I say, I mean that Google Scholar is something that I hit at least once a day because especially now with Kobe, Because curiosity takes me in all kinds of different directions on and, you know, taking the time thio satisfy that curiosity can need you a lot of interesting places. Both. I’ll be honest, not just medicine. I mean, I’ll tell you another source I have about a 30 toe well and sometimes office Austin traffic, a 60 minute drive home. And podcasts are a great way Thio be aware of what’s happening in the world and, you know, hearing about different areas of thought. Uh, behavioral economics is fascinating to me. Um, you know, just hearing stories from from all over. I mean, it’s just a great way toe again, Pete. Curiosity and follow curiosity. [0:37:48 Speaker 0] What? Some of you go to podcast Doctor Bray. What would you What would you say? You kind of your go to, [0:37:53 Speaker 1] uh, lately has been, uh, one called the 99% invisible. It’s all about design, but there’s also Freakonomics radio and then another one by the same guy. Uh, is, uh, no stupid questions? That’s a great one, because it, uh literally I mean, it’s just too really smart people asking each other questions or having questions nailed into them that, uh, that they say No stupid questions, you know, just they take it to the end degree. So it z always fascinating, and they approach it humbly. I mean, that’s the other thing is is like and you guys know this, uh, anybody who’s confident they know everything about something doesn’t like it’s the the what’s called the Dunning Kruger effect. I mean, the more you learn about a subject, the more humble you become in the face of the breadth of knowledge that you don’t know. And so it’s like that paradoxical, uh, you know, situation where you know, the people who are the smartest think that they’re about average, and the people who don’t know anything about the subject think that they know the most s [0:39:05 Speaker 0] so true that she, like you, said you the more you read and study, you get older. You’re like, Oh, I don’t know anything. [0:39:12 Speaker 1] Exactly. And so that’s That’s another tip that I use for myself. If I feel like I got something conquered, I probably am over resting, getting my my knowledge about that. I better keep looking. That’s [0:39:25 Speaker 0] good. Good. Good resource. Is there, Doc? We appreciate it. [0:39:28 Speaker 2] Mhm. Well, kind of building on those. Resource is you kind of talked about, you know, figure out with you know what’s a legitimate resource and what’s not, you know, kind of siphoning your way through Google. Um, and and over the past few months, you really kind of leading our staff through the whole covert era. You know, this past summer passed eight months. Um, what would your advice you know, bto our listeners, or, you know, other coaches and navigating through the covert Aaron Sports. [0:39:55 Speaker 1] Well, being humble, that kind of building on what I just said like knowing that that you’re gonna be wrong. Uh, in two weeks, you just don’t know what it is that you’re thinking is gonna be wrong. But I mean, the way that I mean, frankly, the way that the knowledge has progressed. I mean, when I can sit back and take myself emotionally out of the situation. I mean, this whole pandemic, academically speaking, has been fascinating and not just, you know, the disease itself, but also the collaboration. I mean, when I take time to think about it, I am truly grateful for the time that we live in right now that you have scientists from all over the world collaborating in real time on this, you know, existential crisis. I mean, this is not something that has ever happened before. And, you know, we’re talking about, you know, were complaining that the vaccine is gonna take almost a year, that that’s insane, that no vaccine has ever come out that. And and it’s because of, you know, the work that’s been done both prior to the pandemic. And then, you know, all of a sudden all the all the minds turn towards this one problem and seeing the progress that we make and that you know, on a day by day basis, it feels like just maddeningly slow because it day by day. But you know, any time I have a chance to step back and take a look at what is being accomplished. It is just, you know, very humbling. Um, so first of all, just being grateful for that Andi and that the other thing is is, you know, listening to the consensus. I mean, you know, the I know that there are quote unquote different opinions, but they’re, you know, really, I think those arm or politically based. But, you know, the, uh, scientists around the world, they’re kind of, uh, not always marching this interaction, nor would you want them to be. You want people exploring, you know, different ideas. But, I mean, I think some of the basic tenants are there and, you know, with the social distancing in the masking, I mean, all that has been pretty much showing to work. And so, you know, I guess what I would say, you know, to somebody who is just, you know, paying attention to this the first time is the mawr excited headline get you? The less likely it is to be true because, you know, headlines were out there to get your attention. And, um whereas, you know, good news and in fact tend to be a little bit on the boring side and they don’t tend to make headlines. I mean, every once in a while, you know, the latest one, I think is the vaccine is 90% effective. But even that, I mean, if if if your first reaction is, you know, a big emotional reaction, whether it’s anger or happiness or whatever your second reaction to be like, Whoa, why did I just have that? And let me just kind of dig a little bit beneath that surface and figure out what the you know, the what’s underlying that? Because most of the time, good news kind of creeps up on you. Bad news hit in the face, so mhm. It’s [0:43:03 Speaker 0] good. All right, Um, got a couple more questions here. So this one a little bit more kind of talking about your family. You know, we work in an industry where there’s really especially I mean, you’ve seen this with co vid. It’s even got more like there’s really no work. You don’t know what day is like Groundhog Day. But you know that, like being around coaches I’ve seen coaches in the past, is their families just, you know, get split apart because the dads never home, But just being around you traveling with you some with volleyball or whatever over the years. Your beautiful wife, Two wonderful kids. Um, man, it seems like you do just in incredible job to me. I know we’re not perfect, but you do a great you’re You’re the best of what you do at work. But then you’ve got this amazing family. Like, how do you do your work Life balance? How do you approach that dog? [0:44:01 Speaker 1] Well, first of all, credit goes Thio Kendall my wife Because, as you mentioned, I’m on the road a lot. I mean, you know, uh, surgeons are never home, but they’re not on the road. You know, they tend to be in the same geographical areas. So this is one of those unique areas of medicine where I’m actually like, gone, gone, like, out of town on DSO. Uh, yeah. I mean, well, I can’t take credit for I mean, my two kids are fantastic, and they both take more after their mom and their dad, and that’s probably why, um, but and so I you know, there was a point where I was kind of like I was saying, a coach was I was like, Coach to add, Like I was always looking at the 2% you know, they would be 98% good and I’d be looking to the 2% going, you know, let’s let’s work on this. And I think I finally got the point or wised up enough to realize you know, that my time with these kids in the house is limited and I need to be rebelling in the 98% and just, you know, letting other people worry about the 2%. And so I think, uh, that’s gone a long way, Thio think, making them not cringe when I walked. Oh, and wonder where the next criticism is coming from and just, you know, just, you know, loving them up and enjoying being around them and being excited to see you know, where they go with their talents and where it takes. I mean, I I think that is, uh and again that’s that’s based on the wisdom of my wife, who is, you know, gently corrected with my coach tendencies. And, uh and so, yeah, I’m really grateful for her, uh, relationship and also her helping me enjoy the relationship with our kids actually having making me more enjoyable for my kids, [0:46:04 Speaker 0] you know, you have a you have an incredible family. Of course, Miss Kendall is awesome. And, yeah, we definitely takes a village that the doctor bray. You can’t do it alone. There’s no way, can’t work in sports and and not be able to have this great family A team at home, Strong team at home before you could do a good job at your work. So [0:46:22 Speaker 1] it’s huge. Well, and I also I mean, the culture at UT was I was pleasantly surprised at how welcome families are around here. I mean that, you know, they they do a good job realizing that, you know, time, uh, this is a time is a precious commodity and that we can involve our families. You know, with whatever we do here that that is encouraged and that comes from the top down. So I’m really grateful to be working in a place that mhm, you know, I love to spend 55 60 hours a week in my job, but I also love being on to bring, you know, the kids in for for 5 to 10 hours of that. [0:47:01 Speaker 0] It’s good. I had one more fun question is that we didn’t talk about But what are your big hobbies? Dr. Brady seemed like you. It seems like they kind of jumps around a little bit, but I was listening to a podcast, so they talk about podcast, But just, you know, as I’ve gotten older and been in my career longer, it’s I think it’s so important. You know, you gotta have your job, right? You gotta make make your career or make a living. You got your family, but like, you’re gonna have a little hobby there to to kind of kind of keep you, keep you learning. What? What’s your big hobbies right now? [0:47:33 Speaker 1] Right now? Uh huh. Because, like you said, it changes for a while. It was facial hair grooming. Uh, I see Joe’s taking over that title from me. I like physical exercise. I mean, like, you know, pushing myself. I’m like I said, I’m never really good in any of it. So there’s always room for improvement. And so for a while I was doing like, endurance sports, like marathons or triathlons. But you know, when you have a job that takes a lot of your time. You really want to spend the rest of your family? S o. You know, doing something is time consuming is endurance sports just sort of lost some of its luster. But I still like exercise on a regular basis, as you know, you know, bodybuilding, you know, by Dani and that way get after it. And that z e. I don’t know if that counts as a hobby because I don’t think hobbies are meant to be that painful. E pleasurable. It feels good when we stop. [0:48:34 Speaker 0] So glad we were does. Yes, sir. [0:48:37 Speaker 1] Yeah, but otherwise, I just tend toe pick up. Right? Honestly, right now I’m letting my kids drive my interest. I mean, my my daughter has just wrapped up for tennis season and starting softball. So now I’ve gone from enjoying tennis to softball. What? My son Still playing tennis, So I feel like watching tenants. But gosh, you know, the things that my kids get into our completely different than what I did is a kid, and it’s actually fascinating. Watch where? There and just take them. My daughter is now gone into photography. Pottering, um, she’s done that through school my son has become politically aware. And my goodness, the ideas that go through his head or that he actually that he researches, you know, and the great philosophers. I mean, he he could tell you that all the different philosophers and existentialism versus nihilism, you know where he files on the spectrum. I mean, it’s just it’s incredible. I can’t keep up with that kids just some of the time. So then itself has been entertaining, and so that that’s most of the way I spend my time. I also fantasize about traveling, but I don’t actually get to travel. I mean, other than, you know, with the job. I mean, I have gotten Seymour the United States, and I never dreamed I would just mawr college towns than which is fabulous. I love that part of it. Someday I plan toe to see some of the the natural beauty is the world of the, you know, the, you know, hide the Grand Canyon or going to New Zealand are Alaska. Are you know, just take in some of the natural wonders of the world. That would be a chapter after I backed up here. [0:50:21 Speaker 0] Yeah, I could see that travel is definitely something I know you enjoy. I think we share that commonality. I know. I think Joe likes to travel, but I just like, exploring and seeing new places and meet new people I’ve never met. And I know you share that the same interest, but yeah, you gotta have time and money to do that for sure. So, Well, cool. As we wrap up, if the listeners want to reach out, connect with you. What would be the best or easiest way for anybody? Listening would like toe to reach out and connect with you. How would they do that dot [0:50:50 Speaker 1] email is probably the best way I can. I just give my email address. Yeah. Broadcast James dot bray at athletics dot UTexas you team e x a s dot e d u. And I’m frequently checking email. So it has been more than a day or two than it went to my junk files. [0:51:13 Speaker 0] Awesome. Well, Doctor Bray, it’s It’s been a It’s been a pleasure, Joe. Appreciate you helping out today with the show. Any closing comments from you, Joe? Anything you want to add? Anything, Joe. Doctor Bray before we get out of here? [0:51:25 Speaker 2] I want to say about the traveling thing real quick. I like the road trip because then you get to stop along the way. If you do a plane, you know there’s only two places you can go from where you came from and then back again. So I like I like to road trip alike and stop along the way. Yeah, it makes a lot more fun. [0:51:42 Speaker 1] Yeah, Part of my travel fantasy is van life. My Kendall is gonna have nothing to do with, and she sees me looking at things like tripped out bands with a bed in the back and the tiny little bathroom, and she just shakes her head. She’s she’s not excited about that. But I agree with Joe like I want to see not only point a and point B, but all points in between. And if there’s a point, see, that’s just off the beaten path. I wanna drive over there and check that out, too. So, yeah, I’ll tell you, actually, uh, Donny, one of the influences that I’ve had about this idea to was, you remember? I think it was two like the volleyball, too. if you were on and we went Thio, where were we? Croatia. I want to say there was a non opportunity to do some see a sea kayaking that because of time pressures. I didn’t do it. Can I want to do it? And I didn’t do it. And I’ve always regretted, like I’ve always thought, You know, I want to travel in a way that if some an opportunity like sea kayaking comes up, But I have time to go do that and then it’s the next day, you know, there’s a hike I want to do. I could do that, too. There’s not like the next next town to get to. There’s not like a bus leaving. I just want to, like, stay in a place until I’m sick of it and then move on to the next place. Yeah, it’s [0:52:59 Speaker 0] tough. It’s tough to do that on those trips where it’s everything planned out. But I feel you on [0:53:02 Speaker 1] that. I’m crunch. Yeah, so that’s just building on what Joe was saying. I mean, I want to do some, so I think they call it slow travel where there’s not an agenda. You just sitting absorb everything there is to a place until you’re tired of it. And you just, you know, under the next one, that again, the teacher curiosity. [0:53:23 Speaker 0] We’re good. Hopefully we get out of this pandemic, we’ll all get to travel a little bit more coming. Something look forward to so well, Dr Bre, it has been a distinct pleasure to have finally get you on. We appreciate your time and expertise. [0:53:38 Speaker 1] I appreciate you having me. This was fun. [0:53:39 Speaker 0] Yeah, It’s been fun. Joe, Thank you for being a copilot today on the team behind the team. Hey, that’s all we got from Austin. We’re signing off, and we will. We got some great guests coming up for you and 2021. So keep listening. Keep tuning in. And if you have not done so already, please go on iTunes. Leave a review so we can keep the show going and keep providing great content again. Donnie made Dr James Ray and Coach Joe cross it from Austin. Hook em horns and we’ll catch you next month. Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to this episode of the team behind the team podcast for future episodes. Goto, iTunes, Spotify Google podcast or stitcher way. Definitely want to keep having great guests on the show and great content. So if you have a moment, please go to iTunes, leave a rating and review and let us know how we’re doing. I’m Donny Mabe, and thanks so much for tuning in