S1E7: Self and Community Care

[00:00:00] Welcome to unpack this we’re academic misfits unload their shit. This is Jo Hsu,

and I am Constance Bailey.

And in this episode, we’re talking about self care. It was also our first guest episode, which we’re very excited about. And I guess that means we’re doing this thing. It’s it’s really happening.

Yeah. That’s is true. This is true. So I’m going to introduce our topic for today is November, December. It is December in academia, and we are starting to get emails again about wellness and how to take care of your mental health. And so it occurred to me that we might talk about self-care and mostly I brought that up in part because it is so much.

Of a term that is thrown around in relation to the very genuine mental health [00:01:00] crises that we were having around the world right now, often without any meaningful effect. But it does also, you know, address this very real fact that lots of people are struggling with. And I thought that that might be a good inroad into the fact that constants and I had a, another pipe dream side project where we were going to talk about the fact that we have both at one point in another, uh, had side hustles as fitness professionals.

And so in some ways have both a critical and uncritical foot in the world of health and wellness. So it was a, it was a good crossover topic. And then Constance had a very apt guest for this idea.

Yeah. Well, I think even before talking about our guests, I should say that yes, we were certainly over ambitious as we often are, but I also think part of why we delayed finish as its own self contained project is because maintenance phase came out and it’s such a great podcast that addresses many of the things [00:02:00] that they don’t need.

Our plugs Lord knows they got all the listeners they can handle, but it’s just amazing. And a lot of the wellness and fitness industry. Mythology they debunk and they do such a great job with research that I think in some ways we were just late. If there are other things that they have yet to unearth or that are particularly, I think, appropriate for us.

And in this case, I think you’re spot on with thinking about self-care because I think your overall point, which maybe we’ll get to later is how does the institution try to displace responsibility for wellness? But yeah, it was, so it was such a great topic this time of year, because actually. Burnout is real anyway, right?

In December, especially the holidays is hard cause you’re so many of us are thinking about others like our kids and gift giving. And so it’s hard when December where there’s a heavy grading burden for academics and grad students. Um, I thought that a great guest. My friend failure. Who’s a good friend from [00:03:00] undergrad, but she started a podcast a few years ago called how to take a break.

And it was really for, um, I think started for black women, but she’s kind of expanded her reach, but it kind of speaks to the wellness issues. Basically you need to take a break for yourself and to take care of yourself and prioritizing yourself. So I thought, you know, wouldn’t she make a great guest. And so, yeah, that’s how we arrived at our first guest

today.

She did she did. She met a wonderful guests and I liked that she pushed back against the very term self care, which is kind of my tongue in cheek, naming of this, this episode. I should also say that I have probably not the most productive relationship with the idea of self-care in that I have all of the criticisms about the institution and how it is often used to displace responsibility.

You know, we get these emails about. Here are a couple of links to PDFs about mental health resources, [00:04:00] but also we’re going to require all of this labor of you. And we’re not going to count it for any of the things, and we’re not going to give you job security for six years. So there’s that. Um, but I also.

Even with all my eye-rolling and pushback and very, quite terrible about taking a break or, you know, understanding my own limitations. I mostly just barrel headlong into them and then, you know, regret it later. So I’m probably, um, somebody who needs to listen to more PM guests, guessers, podcasts. What about you?

What’s your relationship to this term?

Yeah, I think probably hearts. I am, I think that’s the case for a lot of rest. Just like we are. I don’t know if. Incapable of taking breaks or prioritizing ourselves in the way that we should be, or, and I’m going to throw it back to, I think your overarching point, if there are systemic issues at place that make it more difficult for trans people and people of color and women and single parents and, and other people to see.

Take time [00:05:00] for themselves, because as much as I tell graduate students and other people, I say child, my very folksy, Southern ways, child, you better tell us people know, you know, but yet the number of open knows that I give is not sufficient given my other responsibilities. But if. I always feel like if everybody’s saying no, someone has to say yes, you know, who’s going to mentor graduate students.

Who’s going to do some of the other necessary labor to keep some of the organizations functioning that are important to me. But also they are just the logistics of my family mean that many of the things that are. Um, most time consuming things, you know, uh, logistical nightmares really are things that I can’t actually say no to because right now I’m the only person who drives in my household.

And I’m the only adult in my household. And I have medical appointments and all of my children have many medical appointments of this week. I think we had five appointments and I had a parent meeting and I rescheduled one to [00:06:00] next week, which means I just have four appointments next week. So it’s quite practically the things.

I mean, I’m kind of manufacturing time right now, but yeah. So I think that can create for us what feels like an antagonistic relationship with self care. Cause we don’t really know how to do we know we should do it or maybe, uh, it’s a concept that we should embrace, but I don’t think we practically can do it or something.

I

yeah. So since, since our conversation with our guests goes well into different strategies, uh, for self-care I thought that we might take this intro section and talk a bit more, like, what are the barriers to what are the very real conditions that we often overlook when we throw around the term self care?

And, you know, you just gave us all sorts of examples from your own life. I was thinking about how. I mean for a lot of academics, it feels like we’ve just been stuck in spring 2020 for a very long time. And in part that’s because most of us at universities are not getting any information about how. The following semester is going to go.[00:07:00]

Uh, as far as we know, nobody at UT has any solid information yet in part that is because of a lack of information from the top down, pretty much, no one knows, but that means that every semester we’ve been reinventing classes and reinventing teaching strategies, discovering some things that they were don’t work on top of parenting on top of being chronically ill on top of, you know, all of the life responsibilities, which means that when we have.

The section that is say winter break. Um, mine is literally just doctor’s appointments and labs the whole way through, because they were things I couldn’t do during the whole semester. Right. And so there, there are these just like material constrictions restrictions that our time, and also as junior faculty, both of us who don’t have tenure, you can say in theory that we.

The the right to say. Now people can tell you the very same people who tell me that, you know, you should say no. Or also oftentimes the people who asked me to do things, [00:08:00] and oftentimes those people have visited in making power. Right. There’s this other thing where they kind of break you down right after about two or three nos, I start to feel really bad about the number of nos that I have said.

And that’s how I usually end up with an obligation that I didn’t intend to agree to in the first place. And so, you know, it’s, it’s easy to say that we have the option of self-care that we should take a break or that we should set our boundaries, but there are all of these, both. Formal policies that make it hard, whether that is like a limitation on how many hours there are in the day, but also informal policies in terms of who we’re afraid to cut off in terms of what relationships we need and want to foster and kind of like you’re mentioning in terms of the fact that we are here, because we want it to do work that we thought was important.

And sometimes that work’s not going to get done if we don’t do the thing.

Yeah, no, I mean, that’s true. I could say a lot more about that, but. That you’ve probably said enough. So I do maybe want to circle [00:09:00] back to in terms of institutional or systemic things, at least with I really. I suspect that this such situation is here is comparable to your institution.

But honestly, I am so inundated with emails. If they disseminated anything that suggests what the spring class Brooks or a situation would be, I would not know because I am buried in email. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna. Take ownership of that right now. But the worst thing that emails with the PDFs and links are super annoying, but the other thing that’s institution wide.

And I think not just academic, but like business, like the virtual retreats or the virtual wellness, I don’t even know. I mean, retreat for lack of a better word, but I’ve seen some other terms thrown around, but it’s like, are you seriously going to say. You know, let me not give you any extra compensation for maybe mental health visits or other things that you’ve had to incur as a result of this forced isolation.

Let me [00:10:00] not give you any work release or any reprieve. Let me send you this link. We will pay for this thing for you to do another thing in a virtual space. But meanwhile, if you were to fully engage, you still have to have like childcare or suspend your teaching or research responsibilities. And I don’t know this to be specific to my institution, that I don’t even know that we’ve done that in a formal way, but I have certainly seen it in the academic, um, stratosphere or whatever alternate universe that academics live in.

And I just think it’s hilarious when I look at them. To me just kind of patently absurd, but you have any thoughts about those returning to, as in, we

have literally devoted money to this thing that is going to talk at you about how to take care of yourself, but we’re not going to spend money so that you can actually take time to take care of yourself.

Yeah. And it’s kind of like the AI practices writ large. We can name a thing after the [00:11:00] work we should be doing to pretend that that work exists, right? The work of Sarah Hoffman, um, is huge here in terms of how naming diversity work can be a way of not doing diversity work, right. We designated it to this space, to this person, to this one, zoom webinar.

So we’ve taken care of it. And therefore we’re not going to actually address the fact that. All of our faculty are very burnt out that all of the students are struggling right now that all of our staff are way underpaid. Um, and you know, we’re just going to send them PDFs about some places to go for mental health

counseling.

Yeah. I mean, it boggles the mind. That’s probably the best way that I can put it. So yeah. I just think that for all that I am sometimes dismissive of the phrase self-care now I do think to kind of get back to. What we originally wanted to talk about. There has to be a way to find some kind of balance between institutional practice and our own individual needs.

I think failure’s insights will be [00:12:00] useful. She definitely has at least some resources that I definitely want to check out. I don’t know. I’m wondering what, how do we strike? How do you find that balance? I think one idea. That resonates with me as this idea of community. And I think that’s what feels so hard or so difficult, uh, which I have found a good community.

It’s a small community, but I have started to foster community here, although you left me. So my community is smaller now.

So I left the community altogether, right?

Well, yes, but guilt and shame can go a long ways. So what extent is their community support? And if there’s not institutional support. And the other thing I would say that’s connected to that as far as I’m concerned is.

Sally. I mentioned vulnerability, vulnerability. I have not had sufficient caffeine today. Okay. But at the other way to think about it is I really like, I think Melissa Harris, [00:13:00] Perry’s sister citizen, but also Patricia Hill Collins, black feminist thought, um, both scholars and other scholars mentioned like the myth of the superwoman and the way in which black women’s strength has been mythologized and, and not through.

Malicious intent on the part of black men or other people who are saying black women are resilient. Black women are strong, but when people say that to me, it’s funny because now I think most of my guy friends know not to say it to me. Do you want me to go off now or later? And then it’s like, what do you mean I’m complimenting me?

No, you’re not, you’re not doing me any favors. I’m not trying to be a moderate to my strength and you’re not going to strong black woman meeting to the grave. Tell me that, Hey, I’m paying for dinner this week or I’m paying for Molly maids or, Hey, I know you need help. So I’m doing this thing. Don’t say, I know that because black women have historically been strong and have had to do these things, I know that you can, or somehow that you should do all of [00:14:00] these things.

Right. And so that’s been my ministry. So if anybody has heard me on a soap box for the last, you know, six months or a year, uh, the pandemic, if it’s taught me anything, it’s like, no, I’m not the strong black woman. I’m not trying to be the strong black woman hats off to our mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers and whoever.

I had to wear that badge and wore it. Well, she shouldn’t have had to, so I’m not feeling that at all. So I’m all about the, whether we call it self-care or not, you know, I’m all about taking the break, prioritizing self and finding ways to try to be self it’s. Really? Yeah.

I, so I, I love that you noted the same moment that I did.

I literally wrote it down in front of me when she was talking about vulnerability and how scary it is to ask for help from other people, because this is, this is the moment when. You might hear back from these people that you’re not worthy of it, that they don’t care about you enough, that they don’t have the resources, but what it ends up showing you is that you might be alone in [00:15:00] this and that there’s a very real fear that nobody’s going to answer.

When you, when you ask, there’s also the very real connections that you build when people do, um, in the very real communities that you do. It’s a risk that folks aren’t necessarily used to taking. And one that is scary to do. The other thing I wanted to respond to was your mention of the strong black woman trope.

Um, my angle into a related trope is the super Crip where the disabled person is only, um, recognizable. Celebrating if they can overcome their disability. Right. And so I’m a disabled person who has been disabled for over a decade. And this job is the first time during the pandemic is the first time that I asked for institutional accommodations because I ran up to the very limits of what my body could do.

And. I was speaking to Alison Kafer. Who’s a disability study scholar, a [00:16:00] wonderful colleague, um, who was giving me advice on how to even talk to the office for our accommodations. And she was saying that. She hears this a lot from disabled faculty that she talks to where like a lot of the things out of our mouth is just okay.

But if I just tried a little harder or if I move this thing around, or if I, you know, manage this better, maybe I could suck it up and do this thing, this totally unreasonable thing that I shouldn’t have to be doing. Right. But we have internalized this guilt about individual responsibility that. The world has given us and feed that the institution emphasizes that it’s our responsibility to take care of our needs, our emotions, um, and nobody else’s and it’s isolating.

And it actually is fundamentally opposed to both self and community care. So I love that we’re highlighting that, right. That mutual aid is a term that’s come up a lot, but that more broadly. Being able to reach for and take care of one another is really the only [00:17:00] way we’re going to survive. You know, um, everybody’s saying it these days, your job is not going to love you back, but we’re all learning it.

And perhaps even harsher realities, right?

Well, yeah, and I mean, that’s the thing too. That’s really sort of interesting is that, especially with disability studies and Crip studies, this is a new field for me. I attended a great seminar a couple of weeks ago by black women, activists. And they were talking about, you know, Fannie Lou Hamer.

And I always think about her civil rights activism and forget about her as a disability activists. And in some ways it’s made me rethink. My own identity in terms of able-bodied Ines. Cause you and I have talked about this where I haven’t wanted to exploit what I felt like is to me a temporary condition.

But I do feel that it’s really unfortunate that individuals have to think about mutual aid and their own wellness. And since I have had mobility issues over the last year or so. And have had disability as [00:18:00] maybe a temporary category and not fully an aspect of my identity that I’ve embraced in part, because I’m trying to be more sensitive to the community that I haven’t been fully immersed in, but just even that minimal amount of time, I thought, okay, this institution is not, um, ADA friendly.

And just things that, to me seem to be common sense, but probably weren’t registering with me before, but also now thinking about the way in which we expect people to do. Where their disability. And this has been hard for me as a parent of children who have various mental and other conditions that aren’t visible the way in which we expect, not just disabled persons to advocate for themselves, but that they have to in somehow, like when I have, when my arthritis is so debilitating that I can barely move, I may use a cane, but most days I don’t.

But then the expectation is somehow that why aren’t you doing XYZ? You know, I’m not going to pretend to be a runner. Like I used to pretend to do a decade ago because I [00:19:00] can, some days barely move somehow that I have to perform my ability or lack of it’s really unknowing the psychological burden of that day in and day out.

I just imagine it has to be crushing, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I actually, so you can’t quite see it. I have a cane in my office that I sometimes use when I am too dizzy to, I mean, it’s the balance issue, but I am really self-conscious about it when I’m out in public in part, because I don’t need it all of the time.

Um, and so J Dulmage the disability studies scholar has named the cliche disability drop that there are all of these films that. Create the stereotype of the fake disabled person, somebody who is explaining the system and is taking advantage of it, uh, to the point that people will be suspicious of disabled people.

If say you are wheelchair user who doesn’t always use the wheelchair, um, Chris, this very [00:20:00] real psychological damage, like you’re saying where we question ourselves and how we’re presenting and how we’re wearing that disability in public. And it’s, um, it’s a social slash structural problem that has very real personal harm.

Right.

Yeah. If I had to still failures term a breakaway, I think there’s some degree, maybe cognitive dissonance, for lack of a better word. I don’t know. But I like this idea of yet that the structural and systemic issues still cause us personal and localized problems and we still have to address those.

So I think that. Well, just to, I guess, bring things on home. I think failure’s point about embracing the, no, I think it’s the way she puts it is a really excellent takeaway, but also just to be mindful of the way that to your point, the way that structural and systemic problems still cause us personal and localized issues.

Right. And that we have to try to grapple with that, but that community and mutual aid, at least two ways that we can start to try to [00:21:00] sustain each other through. Process of self-care maybe.

Yeah. There’s no. Neat, you know, putting a bow on it, way to talk about it. But for me, the breakaway or take away is very much that we need each other and we need a vocabulary with which to reach out to one another, uh, both to give and take care to understand that that is a relationship that’s always in flux that sometimes I will need more.

Sometimes you will need more, but that we ultimately at the end of the day are. Aspiring to survive together. Um, there’s this moment in trans care Hillman, Latino’s really wonderful book where he talks about the futility of doing this like quantifying of debt. And his example is when talking to his partner, right.

I could say. You didn’t do the dishes tonight. And I did them the night before, but it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day, we need one another to survive. Right. So it’s not so much that we’re [00:22:00] competing against each other, trying to reach these goals so much as we’re actively together with the resources that we bring to the table, trying to get there, you know, with one another.

Oh, wow. That’s a really great point. I love that. If I had a partner, I would totally invoke that quote.

Right. So even though we’re sort of wrapping up, I do have one question because we ask this of our guests. We haven’t asked each other. So just quickly before we leave, what is your favorite form of quote unquote self care?

Oh, man. Okay. So this is hard because it used to be slash is fitness. I used to be, um, I mean, I was a CrossFit and weightlifting coach and there’s a whole backstory in relationship with that, that we’ll get into one day.

Um, I did jujitsu before the pandemic and 20, 20 to 2021. One of my symptoms was that I would go into like full blown auto-immune crises if I overstress myself. And so I had [00:23:00] this whole identity crisis of like, how do I deal with stress without this one thing that I have used to, to cope. Um, and so more recently I, uh, bought a guitar.

I’m getting back in touch with the fact that I didn’t use it for the first year. 15 years of my life. I do like taking walks kind of like failure with saying, uh, it’s not so much running these days, but long walks with my dogs, long hikes with my partner. Those are, those are things that have worked their way back into my life and definitely still using the garage gym when my body lets me.

What about you?

Yeah, that’s fine. Maybe that’s why we’re such good friends. We have very similar interests. And so I was just bemoaning the fact that I have not been able to work out as much as an outlet, as a way to challenge myself physically to help be kind of a mental distraction, but that is. Really one of my favorite forms of quote unquote self care or just mental releases.

And I’m going to attempt some of [00:24:00] that this, this weekend. But I think, I don’t know, spending money is like self care. Cause on some ways definitely say, yeah, well it’s counter-intuitive right. But I like, um, Shopping. I know, seriously, I spend an inordinate amount of time, uh, trying to put together the perfect ensemble for like my once every six months outing.

And, and so I get great joy from that, even though it’s a time suck, but really I think lately. I’ve been getting back to reading and just simple things like copious amounts of wine when I can. So inexpensive, I mean, that’s the thing that I like to, to advocate for people who need a break, you don’t necessarily have to spend money.

So if I buy like a new tea and I think I’m going to invest in one of those fancy tea, things that like, when I drink coffee, I’d grind beans. And now I don’t drink coffee because I can’t handle the caffeine. But I’m like, oh, tea doesn’t have as much caffeine. Maybe I’ll get one of the, you know, but anyways, so spending [00:25:00] money as related to my personal pleasure is now self care, but it shouldn’t it’s prioritizing yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. It should not be expensive and it should not be inconvenient. So even if you have to hide in your closet, folks, take the time you need for your.

Yeah. So I guess for folks who are listening, we understand that this is a struggle. We also want to acknowledge that it is not just you, it’s not on you, it’s not your fault.

Um, and also to the extent that you can, we encourage you and applaud you for carving out space and time for yourself.

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you have questions, shoot us an email@theunpackthispodcastatgmail.com or hit us up on the Twitter. Uh, which we won’t check, but, you know, just drop us a message anyway, the unpack this podcast.

Yeah. Help us blow up to the point that we’ll actually run our Twitter. Thanks for listening.[00:26:00]

For our self care episode, we actually have our first guests. So we’re super excited about that. So today our guests that’s joining us is none other than failure, McCorkle Kester. She is the CEO and founder of PM. Kester enterprises, LLC PM. Kester is the break taking strategists, host and creator behind how to take her.

The podcast, her three core break taking areas, our career money and relationships, the latter, which is the basis of I am open to love the journal slash workbook quote. When we take the break to love ourselves, it opens us up to better love others. This. And workbook as a tool to do the work on yourself, to propel your life forward in quote, and I should also add that failure is a dear friend of mine from Alcorn state university.

Yay. She’s also my fitness buddy. She does some virtual fitness classes with me, so I’ve been fortunate enough to be a guest on [00:27:00] her podcast, which is wonderful. I am a little behind now though, but welcome failure.

I’m so happy to be here. Um, fetish. Yes, I I’m enjoying

it. Happy to be here. Thank you guys for having.

What’s funny that you said that. So I should clarify. So finish, which w is, is it was going to be its own standalone thing right now. It’s kind of a segment on the unpracticed podcast because I don’t know. We just haven’t got. Yeah, but at some point, and so it’s just a segment of unpack this, but thank you for remembering that.

Right. So, um, yes, it is.

Oh my show. And I’m sitting here and I was like, wait one second. What are we doing?

All of the strategies preservation. We realize that we do not in fact have the time to do too much. So now we’ve, we’ve slotted it into.

Yes.

Okay. [00:28:00] We try

we’re over ambitious for sure. But, so this is the time when we would talk about fitness slash wellness related things. And today we wanted to engage in a little bit of conversation about self care, and then because. Podcasts. And my mind is very much about self care. I figured that’d be a good starting point.

Like, you know, what made you decide to do this topic in particular for your podcast? Why taking a break as a topic?

Um, so in September of 2017, I was rushed to the emergency room. Chest pains. It was hard for me to catch my breath. Like I went to sleep the night before and didn’t think I was going to wake up, which is kind of scary.

You hear people saying stuff like that on the internet. And you’re like, that’s not logical. Then it happens to you. You was like, oh wow. This is like a movie of the week or something like, who’s going to play me on lifetime, but it happened. And it was real and it was a wake up call because at that time it was like, everything in my [00:29:00] life was just like, Looking forward at a fast pace.

That was his kind of uncontrollable, like, and it culminated in this big health crisis. And by the time I left there, I took the stress test, get through all this stuff with people taking off my clothes and trying to figure out from having a heart attack. And my blood pressure was. Two 50 over a hundred, which I mean, when I was taking the stress test and I knew something was wrong because I started with one doctor in the room and then I was sitting, there was like four and I’m like, well, this isn’t good.

Everybody’s sitting there. And they just all looking at me asking questions, like, so you can talk. Right. And I’m like, yeah, because I was disclosed to having a stroke and they could not figure, but it was just something that was pushing me on. But you know, it was a wake up call and that journey to trying to figure it out.

What was happening with my body and my life is that time kind of led me on this [00:30:00] process of why it was so important to take a break within it for my mental health, my physical health and my overall wellness.

Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, I know that lately your social media stuff has been like taking a break to be unbusy and I’ve been trying to deliberately engage with those posts.

When I see it, I’m like, yes, I’m going to take a nap today because we do get overwhelmed. I know we could talk forever, but I’m going to defer to Joe to ask the next question, but yeah,

thank you for that story and showing us how you got here. It actually brings to mind for me, my sort of fraught relationship with the idea of self care.

Cause it is like. Key word that people throw around right now, right? To like deflect responsibility for the amount of pressure that we actively put on people. You’re probably running around really busy and stressed out. Not because you want to be, but because there are very real life demands that you’re trying to respond to.

So I guess I’m curious, what are some ways of thinking about taking a break or [00:31:00] self-care that are not useful for you and what are ones that are helpful for you?

So I don’t like the term self care Sunday. I think just kind of like the word self-care it became like the 60 buzzword. And when you peel back the layers of Sunday, and I understand why we use self care Sunday, but it almost implies like this the only day of the week that you need to be taking a break.

And when you look at, especially the numbers now of people’s stress levels, especially women and women of color during this pandemic life in general, but especially during this. Um, and the numbers of more women of color that are having strokes heart disease, diabetes, I’ll use a stress-related illnesses.

And so if we were to just delegate one day for taking a break that really does not move a needle, taking a break. Something that is part of your day-to-day living. So I just don’t, I don’t like that. Um, I’m more [00:32:00] of, we should try to find some time every day to take a break, whether it’s 15 minutes to an hour, maybe it’s 15 minutes to sit in a closet.

Yes. I have done that before. Escaping my keys. Look at the customer’s face, you know, reading a book or, you know, 30 minutes to walk around the block. If you have it and you have to get inventive with it, it’s not going to be some perfect every time, every day for every people, because this is life, but I don’t like that term of self care Sunday, just one day, because it really has to become part of your life.

It’s kind of like the problem with you, like delegated there. So it’s as if you’ve taken care of it, but without actually addressing the sort of core problem of why you’re not able to carve out this time for yourself. I’m also curious what you’ve discovered throughout this podcast.

I’m always learning something. I tell people that this podcast is very much, I’m [00:33:00] helping people, but really I’m helping myself. And I did an episode talking about my big break taking lessons, but, um, the biggest lesson is, is that, you know, Things change and you have to change with it. And with it mindset is that you’re going to have to kind of reteach yourself almost like maybe every month or every other day that you know, you are deserving of a break.

I think a lot of times we feel like we can’t, we have to kind of be a moderate to what’s going on. I live and we have lots of stuff going on. I’m a mother of two. I was just running before we get to this podcast because I have a college kid who needs to go to the doctor and couldn’t drive herself. And then the.

Middle school kid wanted, forget all her stuff for one of her classes. And you know, you’re running where, and I have like, I’m off work, but I still have work stuff to do. And so it can be [00:34:00] very easy to get caught up in this trap. And I find myself, even though I think I know better getting caught up in this trap of, well, you know, this is just how life is.

Deserve a break. I, you know, because I have to work, I have to make ends meet and I have to take care of these kids, but that’s part of the big lesson that always comes back to me is that I’m deserving of this break and that I have to find time every day to take this break and it has to be a priority for me.

Yeah. So I, I’m going to ask one more question and then pass the mic to Constance, but you’re, you’re mentioning kids made me think about. You know how our lives are so bound up in other people’s attention and needs and another sort of key word that gets thrown around without necessarily the conversations we need for the how to is boundaries.

Right? So what are some strategies or approaches to managing your attention, your emotions, your time that helps you carve out [00:35:00] those breaks?

Um, so the biggest thing that’s helped me boundary wise is learning that I had to delegate, um, leading up to this point in 2017. I really, I was lucky to have like a good group of doctors and they were all females and I loved how that all came together.

But when we get to the point where we were doing all the tests and we were finding like, you know, well, these tests are coming back normal, but you’re still having this problem. So. The cardiologist basically sat me down and she said this, just write down some things like what’s going on in your life.

Like, what are you doing? Like, what is your day like? And I started talking about stuff going on at home, how that was impacting, you know, in my diet at the time and stuff like that. And she was like, so it sounds like you’re doing everything. And so the big listen to me and, um, the boundary I said up.

Flexing my no muscle. Um, and that was actually hard for [00:36:00] me because I do like to be, well, I did like to be the yes person. Right. You know? Oh, I can volunteer to do that, especially if we’re, oh, I can do that. Or feeling like I had to volunteer to do that, instead of just being honest and saying, I don’t have the time.

To do that, or even when I get home, instead of trying to be supermom, right. And go to everything and do everything and be everything delegating and why can’t my kids cook, you know, it’s not going to be a gourmet meal, but they can warm up some Tyson, chicken patties and opened up a box of Mac and cheese.

And it’s little things like that. Or leaving something until the morning because there’s not time. So flexing that no bustle is like the biggest band. But I think I said, but I felt delegation is cemetery. Like I said, secondary to that. I can’t do it all, but I’m going to let you know that I need some help with this.

That’s huge. I I’m chronically ill in and out of doctor’s offices all the time. I have never had a doctor sit down and ask me what is going on with my life. It [00:37:00] just blew my mind.

Great. And it was her and, um, my, um, my pulmonologist, cause I also had found, and I had asked at a time, so it was like a whole health thing, but they were all females.

And I do wonder that’s a whole nother episode. You know, just looking at my care, how different, I don’t think I would’ve got that question. If I had a meal doctor.

Yeah. When

I woke up doctors, I’m very much thinking who is going to look at me like a human being. And that, that is not a guarantee in a lot of doctor’s offices, for sure.

Casa.

Thank you. Sorry for that weird pause. I was trying to multitask as we do. The one thing that I’ll borrow from failure for this, for this crossover episode is what I’m calling it. Right? CALEA does this thing called breakaways. And I feel like that flexing, the no muscle is a good break, as opposed to the takeaway, like the breakaway, like from this episode, which I tell people to do all the time.

And I’m absolutely horrible at it. So as both of you I’m sure know. [00:38:00] One thing I’m interested is this idea of self care Sunday. And you and I even talked about this, I think on the podcast, I’ve said self care is more than just a bubble bath and spa days. I think the reason Joe and I were interested in this topic is that we really wanted to think about what are some ways that we can stop trying to make people personably, personably lowered.

I’m making up words personally accountable for their wellbeing, which is what, in some ways, this affirmation of self care does. But having said that, what are some things? And I like the way you put it, how to take a break or taking a break as opposed to self care, right? The sort of cliche term, what are some of your favorite ways to get away?

Take a break other than hiding in the closet, right? What are, what’s your go-to thing to do to sort of get away from it all? Um, so. ‘

cause I have like two, so something that I do now, I incorporate, since I’m working from home is I [00:39:00] take, like, I set a timer for 15 minutes and I literally played games on my phone.

Like I sit there and. I work in a very scientific field. So it’s something I found. And at first I thought I was like, well, this is insane. But I recognized that it was kind of helping me, like, you know, it kind of took me out of it that world, it was like my quiet time during the day, just away from that laptop.

Um, of course I’m in front of another screen, but I’m doing something kind of fun and challenging. My mind is just like little puzzles and things like that. So that’s one thing that I like to do. My biggest thing that, that I reconnected with over the pandemic is walking. I used to run a lot, um, pre pre pre stroke, uh, almost stroke time.

Um, but I reconnected to a walking because there’s a piece in it. And depending on the time you, they, they, you go, uh, and I go by myself. I think one of the things I learned, I used to try to [00:40:00] include the key. Which is fine, you know, for family time. But I do like to take walks by myself, you know, just me and my PI, a podcast I’m listening to or music.

Sometimes I talked on the phone found a lot of times I don’t even do that because I just like that time to kind of. Me and my own and head and experienced nature, but it, it opens up so much. I get like a lot of show ideas just about walking,

but my writing breakthroughs always come up when I walk away from my desk.

And it’s a really hard thing to remember when I’m stuck and trying to make myself get through the paragraph. But the moment I get up to take a shower or make a snack, that’s when the idea actually hits.

Yeah. And there might be some research to support that, something about the physiology, like something that we’ve moved in, in thought and all that, you know, this research that I don’t have handy.

But anyway, so I guess one of the other things that I would ask is what are, what or who [00:41:00] rather are some people that you learned from in terms of self care practices or resources that you’ve gone to, that you might recommend to others, or that you’ve found personally instructing. Um,

so I have to make sure I had some stuff now in case I was asked, um, so someone I follow on Instagram, who’s a New York times bestselling author now, um, nidra Glover to watch, she does a lot of stuff on boundaries.

And that is always out of all the interviews that Hey on now in season three of my PI. That’s the biggest thing people talk about is boundaries with taking a break, right? Because you know, there’s so much of our taking a break, self care or whatever wrapped up in saying yes to ourself and notes. These other things, because, you know, a lot of times I have boundaries are like the little linchpin to like a lot of the stressors going on in our life.

And she is really good. Her book is really good and she drops like a [00:42:00] lot of, of stuff on her page. And I have. That he did and, you know, print some out, even hung around my house. So it has helped me a lot in understanding even some of the breaks that I take and don’t take, you know, and how boundaries affected another self care resource.

And you have a lot of my stuff is kind of, um, I look at self care is, is almost inner work in some areas. And so this has maybe some, some inner work with learning about boundaries, um, vulnerabilities. Um, Ms. Renee brown does a lot of stuff with it. Um, her book daring greatly at talking about it on a podcast to help me out a lot.

Um, not only in dating, but recognizing my, but vulnerability is also a boundary. And so, cause you have to tell people that I need the help I need this time. Can you help me by doing this for me, that’s a [00:43:00] vulnerability opening up, telling people that, you know, I’m not super woman. So can you watch my kids for 30 minutes or, or, um, can you help me with dinner?

Friday. So I can go to like a hot yoga class or something like that, but you have to kind of be vulnerable and recognizing that you you’re in a bed and that you are enough and you can still be out and ask for these things. So I think this will now, as far as community things that have helped me during the pandemic, of course, somebody had something called Constance, baby fitness.

And, um, that actually has helped me or not because a lot of times we need accountability. Right. Um, in trying to eat healthy. Um, trying to go on these journeys and you want accountability, that’s going to be supportive and not something that’s going to be almost like bullying, which I think that’s also goes into account of this self care in health.

And with. Landscape, you either get like the good or the bad with it. Like it could be, some can be uplifting, some can be [00:44:00] damaging. Um, so you want a good supportive community and Constance provided it with, with her challenges and her group. Um, also Tracy brown fitness, Tracy, Denise, Denise fitness on, um, Instagram is also good with, um, her stuff about nutrition and time.

She again talks about boundaries, but also she hits it from the fitness coach area and how we. Not denying stuff. Cause a lot of the health and wellness journey almost seems like you’re denying yourself stuff in one of her posts. And she did a lot about, you know, you can be healthy and still have your lemon pepper wit so, and I love it, but those are just things.

Those are resources. Also people like support. The inner work that I think we have to do when we talk about self care and taking.

Those are awesome. Yeah. Thanks for the shout out. I’m glad you said that too. Cause I was like, shoot, I owe some people some gifts. [00:45:00] Cause everyone’s external motivation. Like, I mean, it’s great if you have intrinsic motivation, but some folks like I like prizes.

So I think I’m woefully behind cause it’s that time of the semester, but I owe some people some gifts, but I tell you what, I know I could ask a thousand questions, but I want to just open it up to Joe. If you have any other questions, otherwise we’ll just play. Follow-up at some point in the future so that we don’t tie up your whole day.

Oh no, I’m always happy to come back and I have to have both of you on my podcast, so

we’ll have to work something out. Yeah.

We’ll have an ongoing relationship.

Okay. Well, I’ll tell you why. So the people, how we can find you are droves of followers PM. Caster.

Yes. I drove out together. Um, you can find me on.

Instagram, which is probably the best source at P M Kester, K E S T E R. I’m on Facebook. How [00:46:00] to take a break podcast is the Facebook page. If you type that in, it should come up. You’ll see like a lovely black woman logo with, with some, um, headphones on, on Twitter. And I have to admit, I am not super active on Twitter.

I do post on Twitter, but I don’t engage as much as I used to. Four years ago, probably, but I am on Twitter. It PCM Kester on Twitter. And of course, podcast is like on every available platform on how to take a break past.

Well,

we’ll

link to that in the show summary as well. Awesome.

Well, thank you. So, so, so much for joining us, I got to get caught up and especially like the holiday season messages, like how to take a break during this season, which I definitely, and also like how to take a break.

This is kind of a sidebar like for academics, right? Uh, during the holidays, there’s a horrible intersection of like end of semester chaos slash holiday slash [00:47:00] Joe. And I both have 5,000 medical appointments

of how to take a break. We need that ministry right now.

I hope you get it. I have been seeing some of your posts about grading papers in colony and favors. So hope that. Um, good can finish out this semester and take a break for yourselves, but thank you so much for having me on.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you.[00:48:00] .