This is Democracy – Episode 4: Young Citizens Promoting Democracy

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Introduction with many voices: This is Democracy- a podcast that explores the interracial, intergenerational, and intersectional unheard voices living in the world’s most influential democracy.
Jeremi Suri: Alright, well welcome to our show. We’re here today for a new episode of “This is Democracy”. We’re very fortunate today to have two of the leading lights of Austin schools and the University of Texas with us. We have with us today, Sophie Wysocki, who is a senior at the Liberal Arts and Science Academy here in Austin, which is one of our magnet schools here. And we also have Mina Anderson, who is a first-year Journalism student at the University of Texas, Austin and a graduate from the Liberal Arts and Science Academy here in Austin. Before we get to our discussion today about democracy and student life and making democracy among students in schools, we have a poem from Zachary, of course. Zachary, what are you going to read to us today?
Zachary Suri: It’s a poem that I– it’s a poem that I first wrote, like, two years ago, but I really heavily edited it and basically changed the whole poem and it’s called, “If I’m Lost.”
Jeremi Suri: Great, well let’s hear it.
Zachary Suri: When the first sparrow sounded forth his voice and passed it through the very breathe of every living sparrow until someone could hear a bird sing in every corner, did he know it was everlasting. When the first poet put pen to paper and wrote the first eulogy to love, compounding the human voice into words that sunk through the heart of every soul until one could hear a sonnet in every sandstorm and every stream, did he know it was for all mankind. When the first man set foot on the still surface of the moon and left the first footprint, when he had to take all of humanity and speak forward in one single step until a human voice could be seen forever on the untouchable surface of the moon, did he know it was to never be forgotten. When one stands up and shouts to the wind, does it really sound forever without a TV camera? Does holding a sign against the scorching sun, does it last if no one sees it? Do we really know enough to stand up to raise our voice without a megaphone? Did the first man ever to wander, to blaze the first trail, ever have to wonder if he was lost?
Jeremi Suri: Wow. So what’s the imagery of being lost in this poem?
Zachary Suri: I don’t know, I just think it’s more about like not knowing what, like, the best way to be heard is. And not sure if there’s a way to know beforehand, or if you just know afterwards.
Jeremi Suri: So you sort of figure it out as you go, right?
Zachary Suri: Yeah
Jeremi Suri: Well that’s the perfect transition to our guests today, Sophie and Mina. Both of you are very involved, I know, in all kinds of student activities and are very concerned about getting students involved in helping to improve our democracy. Sophie, how do you come to these issues, how do you think about them?
Sophie Wysocki: Well, throughout my life, I’ve been– I feel very privileged and very sheltered and kind of, not having to experience a lot of the prejudice and discrimination that a lot of people have faced. And I’ve seen some of that first-hand through like my friends or people I know, and a lot of it I’ve seen through the media or the news. And because of that I just have felt, like, a call to action almost? Where I feel like if I don’t do something, then I’m not fulfilling my purpose to help others. By participating in different, kind of, events or activities that raise awareness and call for participation in politics, I feel like I’m fulfilling that purpose and helping others.
Jeremi Suri: Well it sounds like you feel a sense of duty. What are some of the activities you’re involved in?
Sophie Wysocki: Well, in terms of, like, my call to action I guess, last year I joined a group at my school called Diversity Council and we’re kind of working on bringing awareness to more cultures at our school because there is like a large white and Asian majority at LASA and while those, obviously, are very important to like American culture. There is definitely significant minorities at our school and I feel like it’s really important for those cultures to also be represented and so we put on events and try and bring awareness. We have a day called cultural day where we have speakers from around Austin and surrounding areas that come and talk about their culture or their experiences, or try and bring awareness to the thing that they’re passionate about. And we also have conversations with each other about diversity and about representation and about things that matter to us. And this year we’re starting something called Town Hall Tuesdays, where we have students from LASA, kind of all gather together and ask questions and talk about the issues of diversity within Austin or LASA, or kind of around.
Jeremi Suri: It sounds like you have better conversations than most adults have. That’s really– I mean I guess that’s not saying much, but that’s really wonderful, it sounds very mature also. Now, Mina, you’ve graduated from LASA and now you’re on campus here on the forty acres. How has your perspective on this changed in the last year or so?
Mina Anderson: Oh man, well I guess I have to contextualize it, right?
Jeremi Suri: Please
Mina Anderson: So I moved to Austin four years ago, like I started high school here from London, England and the– literally the day after I arrived, like, at Austin Airport Michael Brown got shot in Ferguson. So I sort of went from “Yeah, free healthcare and like only mild racism” to “We shoot black people in the streets” and I was sort of just immediately thrust into this world of like, I came as the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement was beginning, I just didn’t know what was going on like the culture shock, I feel like, was so much more intense just because of that event and sort of the protests and riots that followed. So then, I came to LASA halfway through my high school career, like I came as a junior. So I went from a relatively diverse high school to one, like, as Sophie, that is primarily white and Asian. I was one of 25 black people, I think. I mean, I’m mixed so that’s a whole other identity crisis, that I’m not going to get into, but I mean the past year– I think being at LASA definitely, I’m not sure if it prejudiced me, it’s difficult because, again, being mixed I’d have a pretty deep connection with both white and black people, but I simultaneously walk this line of fitting in with neither group.
Jeremi Suri: Right.
Mina Anderson: Here at UT I’ve been trying to find some kind of community where I can be both white and black, and where I can be mixed and be myself. Again, I’ve been here for four days. That’s been difficult.
Jeremi Suri: Sure it’s a big transition. How do you engage people in conversations because a lot of the things you said very powerfully right now evoke emotions in people, positive and negative? You say Black Lives Matter to a police officer, or someone whose family is in law enforcement, and they have one reaction. You say it to someone who lives in a largely African American community and they have a different reaction. How do you engage other students you meet, faculty in these kinds of conversations?
Mina Anderson: I feel like especially now you kind of have to be political and that’s what I do. Most of the conversations I have are very like, “Wow look at the grass. It’s so green outside.” It’s almost always–
Jeremi Suri: And you’re a pretty serious person I can tell. Even though you joke a lot you’re a pretty serious person.
Mina Anderson: I feel like some of the most fun conversations and engaging conversations I have are debates, not arguments. I don’t like to start fights with people. It’s fun to hear other peoples’ opinions or to find someone you agree with. Some of my best friends I found because we have similar political views, we go to marches together, and we’re in diversity council together right. Starting those conversations can be kind of tricky just because my friends say I’m prone to start race wars in comment sections. I’m always like black lives matter and then someone comes for me, then I go for them. It’s a really a whole–
Jeremi Suri: It sounds like you actually relish mixing it up a bit.
Mina Anderson: Yeah it’s pretty– I think it runs in the family. My brother is the same way and so is my sister.
Jeremi Suri: Sophie how do you deal with this in high school? It can be really difficult in an environment first of all where you have a lot of academic pressure, as you do at LASA, but also where there is often an expectation that everything you do is supposed to get you to the next step. If you take on a controversial issue, I remember this in high school myself, there’s always a concern well will that divert me from the path I’m on. Will someone not admit me to a university because I was part of some activity, will I alienate someone? How do you balance these different pressures in high school?
Sophie Wysocki: There’s people with a lot of different viewpoints. I think there’s a large spectrum when it comes to being– like this school appears to be largely democratic with the population of students, but there’s a large range to that. Then there’s definitely conservatives as well. We have a lot of classes where discussion is a big part of it and sometimes we’re force to talk about things that are controversial, or difficult for some people. That can start really almost hurtful conversations sometimes.
Jeremi Suri: Sure I can imagine.
Sophie Wysocki: People have viewpoints that others may not agree with. Sometimes it’s hard for that not to get out of hand. For the most part I think for me it’s been really helpful to keep myself educated so that if I’m going into one of those conversations I’m speaking about my beliefs with data or evidence. Something that can help me back up my point.
Jeremi Suri: Facts we might call it.
Sophie Wysocki: Yeah facts. If I’m just going out there with my passion that’s important. Passion is so important when it comes to these issues or else I wouldn’t want to talk about it, but if I don’t have facts to back up my argument then it’s just going to be a heated fight. When it comes to participation sometimes it’s difficult. The day I remember after Donald Trump was elected there was a lot of people that came to school in tears. Teachers were giving speeches and crying, or just very upset and trying to mediate what was happening with a lot of the students being upset. There were also those who were really excited. There was, I remember, a boy who went up to one of my friends and tried to provoke her. He was excited about the election and was like, “how do you feel about it?” or tried to make a joke about Trump. There’s a lot of different people and a lot of different ways to engage. I think one of the most important ways is by just trying to be active and informed. In my high school career I’ve participated in a lot of different marches and things like that, one of which was in Washington D.C., one was here. Those have been like life changing moments for me. It is scary to think that if I go and something bad happens what am I going to do? What if someone shows up or there’s violence.
Jeremi Suri: Like at the University of Virginia what happened in Charleston.
Sophie Wysocki: It’s scary to think about that. It’s something that I think about every single time I go out to one of those things. Like what if someone shows up with a gun, or the police show up and there’s something bad that happens.
Jeremi Suri: So why do you go if you’re concerned about it.
Sophie Wysocki: I think that showing up for people that I care about, and for issues that I care about, is the most important thing that I could ever do. Knowing that going to the women’s march and going to the march of our lives is to show the people that I care about. That is the thing the pushes me to do it every single time. Marching for the rights of women of all kinds and minorities of all kinds, LGBTQ people of all kinds, that is the most important thing to me. If people don’t feel like they can be safe then how is America really free. The March for Our Lives like that affects me every single day. I go to school and we have lock down drills relatively often. Last year we had a lot of lock downs, and a lot of gun scares. Gun violence is something that terrifies me. Pretty much every day I think about, “What if something happens? It could be me.”
Jeremi Suri: Right and you’re so vulnerable at a school.
Sophie Wysocki: So I think that because I care so much about each of these issues that they affect me so personally, and people that I care about so personally, that I need to show up regardless of potential danger. That’s my civic duty.
Jeremi Suri: Right. I can hear the passion in your voice. Mina how do you respond to people who say this is all fine but it’s only one side of the story? As Sophie said there are, and there should be, people who have different points of view, who have different experiences. I certainly remember going to a magnet high school in New York City where then and now whites were a minority. Many people who were from that background, and a few conservatives who were there, would say, “Well our viewpoints aren’t really heard. It’s not fair.” How do you respond to that? We hear that at the University of Texas sometimes too.
Mina Anderson: Yeah you hear that at LASA also. Not necessarily that conservatives are being oppressed but they aren’t getting a huge amount of representation. For me I think part of that is living in a fast growing city. I wouldn’t necessarily call it big but it’s getting there. Statistically liberals flock to cities and conservatives stay rural. I think there is value to their viewpoints and I think that it’s critical to have different viewpoints in a conversation. Otherwise, it’s just enhancing an echo chamber if you’re talking to people with the same view points in the room. Again, I might not agree with everything conservatives think but that doesn’t mean there isn’t value to their opinion, and that they shouldn’t be heard. It’s just difficult sometimes when we’ve become so polarized in almost any issue that we can talk about, political or not, becomes a shouting match. You’re stupid because you’re a liberal, or you hate everyone because you’re a conservative. There has been as time has gone on especially now there’s been almost no room for respectful conversation. I personally experienced that in my classes last year. One of my teachers we would try to have conversations. He was very conservative. He was a reputation for being so at school and anytime someone would try to have a conversation, or debate about what he saying, they would immediately be shut down or ignored. That’s obviously not the way to do it because then people feel silenced. That’s not really what we want to happen.
Jeremi Suri: Do you go out of your way to try to develop relationships with people who have different points of view?
Mina Anderson: I mean I guess yes and no because a very large part of my mother’s family is significantly more conservative than my family is. Even my dad’s family too but it’s the whole black conservatism which is kind of a tricky issue. I think because of my international perspective that I sort of developed because of living overseas for so long most people that I talk to have a slightly different perspective from me. For me things like universal health care that’s kind of just a given. I’m like yeah that’s possible I’ve seen it work in action. Homelessness because if you have free health care you can go fix your broken leg, or get treatment for your mental illness. For some of my best friends even talking to them about that they’re like it’s just not realistic. For me I feel very passionate like it is. There’s some things I consider non-negotiable like black lives matter. I think that they do and that’s it. If you think not so then I’m not sure we’re going to be friends.
Jeremi Suri: So there are certain issues that you need agreement on, but there’s still a large space for discussion. You clearly like to debate, I can tell. The last question I want to ask each of you is how you’re going to maintain this passion and idealism as you go forward. What tends to happen, you’ve seen this, is one gets involved and excited in these sort of issues in high school, even in college, but then you go out and get a job, family, and a mortgage. You become very professionalized. We all know lots of people who care but aren’t involved. In fact that’s a majority of Americans. It’s changed a bit in the last year. A certain way our current controversies have provoked people to get more involved, particularly women in many circles. How are you going to stay involved? How are you going to be successful, as you will be professionally, but still remain involved with these issues? How do you see yourself going forwards Sophie?
Sophie Wysocki: I think that it’s definitely for a lot of people to be involved because when it comes to participating in things that are controversial, or potentially dangerous like a march, it’s scary to be involved because you have a family to think about. You have a job to think about. My mom is helping out with Beto’s campaign here in Texas right now. My dad can’t vote because he’s Canadian, but he’s working on it. I think that as an adult I hope that my career can be somewhat of a way for me to stay involved. My hope is that maybe I’m not involved in politics, but maybe I’m involved in something to help people.
Jeremi Suri: Like what?
Sophie Wysocki: I don’t know. I’m still thinking but a potential option for me would be to work with groups such as Planned Parenthood, or another non-profit, or something to help with the environment. So the issues that I care about can move forward and can progress. I think that as an adult I want to pick a career that can help me stay involved. I think also as an adult it would be really important for me to vote in every election. To make sure the people I care about, and all the people I know, are voting. Even if I don’t agree with them it’s still important that we all vote so that we can actually see what democracy. If only 30% of people are voting then everything in skewed.
Jeremi Suri: Informed voting is something crucial that’s often missing in our society. That’s great. Mina how are you going to continue to change the world while you go and become a rich, successful business person.
Mina Anderson: Oh man I wish that were me. No I think I’m very lucky in that I love writing. It’s always been my favorite thing to do. Again, very lucky that I found newspaper freshman year and pursuing journalism here. I think that it’s critical that me, a black bi-racial woman, is contributing to newspapers, contributing to the media for representation mostly right. You’ve seen people who are like you that inspires you to go vote. In the primaries my mom was like, “You know if you don’t vote you’re failing democracy.” I was like, “Oh man you’re right.” Can’t do that.
Jeremi Suri: Sometimes parents are correct.
Mina Anderson: I think that if I could forge a path of diversity in the media, which I think again journalism is changing. It’s going through a renaissance right now.
Jeremi Suri: Absolutely.
Mina Anderson: Being a part of that is something that feels like a great privilege to me. I think that being able to inspire people with my op eds, my opinions, and also my feature stories about being able to travel and make documentaries I think is something that the visual media, and audio media, is what people consume now. Newspapers rip in peace is dying. Yeah it’s not great. Being a part of this revolution, of this renaissance is critical for me and for other student journalists. I think young people are definitely forging the path for success. Look at the Parkland students. Like if Emma Gonzales ran for in political office and I could vote for her I would.
Jeremi Suri: I think journalism is an incredibly valuable way to raise awareness. Both you and Sophie are going to be important leaders in educating those around you. You’ll do that in all kinds of ways: professionally, informally, in your communities, in your families. Democracy and leadership occurs at the local level in that way. Zachary what do you think? Are you inspired by our discussion here?
Zachary Suri: I think so. I’m just excited and looking forward in high school to get involved in more things, and do more things politically.
Jeremi Suri: What kind of things do you think you want to do in high school?
Zachary Suri: I have no idea. I mean just want to explore all the options. I think I have to go to high school first and then say. I don’t know that I can say–
Jeremi Suri: It’s true you first have to go to high school soon enough. I think that today’s discussion has been really valuable and inspiring for so many of us. To see such smart, young people getting involved, and to hear the thoughtfulness. What’s really been powerful about this to me is it’s not a partisan discussion. There are of course issues we care deeply about and their perspectives we bring. To be non-partisan is not to be without strong views. I think these are strong views that don’t line up with party, they line up with society as a whole. I think this new generation that Sophie, Mina, and Zachary represent is going to be a generation that builds new kinds of coalitions. New kinds of coalitions around idealistic goals. I look forward to having ya’ll back when you’re at the next stage in your careers, which I’m sure will be soon. Thank you for spending the morning with us today. We will continue our discussions on “This is Democracy”. Thank you.
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Speaker 7: This podcast is produced by the Liberal Arts Development Studio and the College of Liberal Arts at University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 8: The music in this episode is written and recorded by Harrison Lemke and you can find his music at harrisonlemke.com
Speaker 9: Subscribe and stay tuned for a new episode every Thursday featuring new perspectives on democracy.