This is Democracy – Episode 305: New School Year

[00:00:00] This is Democracy, a podcast about the people of the United States, a podcast about citizenship, about engaging with politics and the world around you. A podcast about educating yourself on today’s important issues and how to have a voice in what happens next.

[00:00:20] Welcome to our new episode of This Is Democracy.

[00:00:25] This week we are going to discuss the beginning of the school year. I always love this time if you, do you like the beginning of the school year, Zachary?

[00:00:32] Well, I don’t know if I used to, but uh, now I’m, I’m like now you do, now that you’re in college. You do. Yeah.

[00:00:37] So, uh, it is a time, uh, of new beginnings and new school years and we are very proud.

[00:00:42] Our, our daughter actually, Natalie Ry is starting as a fifth. Great teacher. My sister, not my daughter. Right, right. Okay. My daughter, she’s starting as a, uh, fifth grade, uh, teacher, uh, in San Antonio. We’re really proud of her and her new beginning. Um, so today we’re going to talk about, uh, American schools and the challenges and opportunities, uh, of this particular moment.

[00:01:06] We’re joined by an old friend, distinguished scholar, and now of. Very successful business person who also is devoting so many, uh, elements of his repertoire of talents to, uh, to public education. It really is quite extraordinary. This is, uh, Dr. Jack Loveridge. He’s the vice president. Of the El Paso, uh, independent school district, board of trustees, and anyone who knows anything about boards of trustees for schools, for public schools, that’s a big job.

[00:01:37] And it’s a job that is filled with controversy these days. Um, the El Paso, ISD, uh, serves that district serves 48,000 students on the US Mexico border. It’s probably one of the most. Interesting public school districts, um, in the country, uh, when Jack is not, uh, helping the schools. He’s also CEO and co-founder of Inoculum Inc.

[00:02:01] Which is a digital history startup company that he created, uh, in his hometown of El Paso. Jack holds a PhD in history from the University of Texas at Austin. I was very fortunate to work with him a bit when he was here. He has an mfi, uh, from Oxford and a BA with honors from Stanford, A as as do I. So we, Jack and I have a lot in common, uh, Jack leverage.

[00:02:23] Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:02:26] Thank you. It’s, it’s a pleasure to, to be on with you all.

[00:02:30] Before we get into our conversation with Jack, and we have a lot to talk about, but before we get into it, of course we have a, a scene setting poem from Zachary. But this is not one you wrote today, right? No.

[00:02:40] This is one actually that you selected, but I think was a very good selection. It’s, oh,

[00:02:44] you’re praising me. This is extraordinary.

[00:02:47] It’s from Muriel ER’s Elegy and Joy. Um, will read two Stan, uh, about beginnings. We tell beginnings for the flesh and the answer or the look, the lake in the eye that knows for the despair that flows down in widest rivers, cloud of home, and also the green tree of grace, all in the leaf in the love that gives us ourselves nourish beginnings, let us nourish beginnings.

[00:03:18] Not all things are blessed, but the seeds of all things are blessed. The blessing is in the seed.

[00:03:25] It’s a wonderful poem, isn’t it? Yes. I, I picked it because I, I felt it really captured some of the excitement and the, the, the possibility in this moment. What’s your thought on it, Zachary?

[00:03:37] Yeah, I think that’s right.

[00:03:37] It captures the, the beauty of a beginning. Um. I think, uh, students feel this, teachers feel this. Certainly, um, parents probably feel this too, but the sort of a new skill year can be daunting, but also exciting. Yeah. It’s always something new at the start of the school year that you don’t expect.

[00:03:54] Right, right.

[00:03:55] So, so, uh, Jack, I guess that’s, uh, the perfect place for us to start. Um, as someone who’s so intimately involved with, with public schools as you are, what, what feels different? What feels the same about this year?

[00:04:08] Well, as we’re jumping into the beginning weeks of the school year, I think what what feels different is, um, some of the challenges that we’ve, we’ve been faced with over the past several years and budgets and, and, uh, declining enrollment.

[00:04:24] They seem to have been coming toward an inflection point, and so that does feel different for me. I feel like the tone and timber of the conversation has. Uh, it changed significantly, uh, and I think a lot of parents and teachers, um, are, are really in a better place now in terms of, uh, demanding better, uh, for their schools from their state government.

[00:04:48] So I think I have a good deal of optimism in spite of those challenges being so significant.

[00:04:54] That, that’s so wonderful to hear, and I’m so happy that that, that this optimism is there because I think it has been a tough few months and years. What does better mean for you? I know that’s such a big question, Jack, uh, but you know, you went through the El Paso school system yourself, so what does better mean?

[00:05:11] Yeah, I, I went to, uh, Burgess High School here in El Paso. I graduated in 2003. And, um, for me it was such a transformative experience. To have access to great programming like journalism, academic decathlon, and a number of other, um, extracurricular activities that really set me apart. So better for me means every school having those, um, opportunities available for all of their students, El Pasos, um, dealt historically with a great deal of disparity.

[00:05:44] Uh, in our city of socioeconomically, uh, we are an 80% Latino city as well. And so I wanna see, um, our, our opportunities increasing for all students across the city. And, and so that. Every student has the opportunity to go to a great college, should they choose, uh, like Stanford and should, should they need it, uh, to be in a position to pursue a full financial aid package, which was something that I was able to, to get myself.

[00:06:11] So I just wanna make sure that every school is resourced well and that we keep as much, um, of the taxpayer’s investment as close as possible to students and not, you know, wasted on overhead or lost on attendance issues or, or all the rest. How do you balance these broader, sort of structural issues that you mentioned?

[00:06:32] The long history of, I think you called it disparity in El Paso. Yes. Uh, inequality, poverty. Um, how do you balance, um, your efforts to try and tackle those larger systemic issues, um, with the, you know, very present daily, yearly crises that you must face, uh, on the school board? That’s a, that’s a really good question, Zachary.

[00:06:56] It’s something that in the past year and a half that I’ve been on the school board has been, uh, quite a challenge. Um, the balance I think needs to be, um, in reminding ourselves that we can’t be ho, you know, hobbled. We can’t be kinda lumbering from crisis to crisis. We have to find ways to work with, uh, the budgets that we get.

[00:07:17] Or the budget resources that were, are available to us from the state. The state is, uh, the state of Texas is not the easiest partner, uh, the legislature, um, has over the past six or seven years not increased the basic allotment. We saw a change in that there has been an increase in the basic allotment.

[00:07:36] Um, which is the, uh, the dollar value that each student receives, uh, or is, is allotted for, uh, the academic year. So I, I think we can’t lose sight of, of making sure that we’re focused on, um, academic outcomes first and foremost. And so if we are going to be, uh, forced into a position where we have to make budget cuts, we have to protect academics first and foremost.

[00:08:04] So that’s, that’s the balance we need to strike in, in always remembering our, our mission is, uh, academic success for all of our students.

[00:08:13] How Jack, do you recruit and retain the best teachers? This, this is a big problem nationwide. It’s a particular problem throughout Texas. It’s certainly a problem in Austin and elsewhere.

[00:08:24] Uh, I don’t see how you can have good schools without good teachers. All of us had a teacher at some point. I mean, multiple teachers who, who transformed our, our learning. Um, so how do you do that in El Paso?

[00:08:36] In El Paso, there are a number of pathways through, uh, our university, ut, uh, El Paso utep, um, that find, uh, good local talent and give them the resources they need, uh, to work for any one of the nine school districts that serve our region.

[00:08:55] Um, El Paso, ISD currently is not where it needs to be in terms of compensation for teachers. I think compensation is. Uh, one of the number one challenges for school districts. Um, also simply giving, uh, teachers consistent, um, support, uh, on campus for their professional development. Treating the teaching profession as a profession and doing all that we can to support the professional development of, uh, teachers.

[00:09:27] I think that’s something that we need to, um, always allot, uh, significant resources toward. Then on top of that, it’s class sizes. It’s making sure that we are not, um, overworking our teachers. We’re not, um, giving them too many responsibilities that are too far away from their number one job, which is ensuring the academic success of students.

[00:09:51] So, you know, yesterday we had a board meeting. We had a, uh, every, uh, third Tuesday of the month. And, um, you know, one of the complaints from, uh, one of our teachers was the paperwork burden. Hmm. Uh, it’s something as simple as that. Doing all that we can to reduce, um, things that get in their way as teachers and providing the supports, uh, in conjunction with our local university, I think that that’s, that’s really the great way to do it.

[00:10:19] So we have to close that gap, uh, in terms of compensation as soon as we can. How do you, I mean, you mentioned that the focus, obviously, of your teachers and of the district has to be on academics, but how can you focus on academics and really push students to, to learn when there are so many other things outside of the classroom that you can’t control as a district, um, you know, poverty, um, like lack of nutrition, um, housing insecurity, all of these other issues that I’m sure many of your students face.

[00:10:49] How do you, um. You know, put them on the right academic path, um, without addressing those issues first, or can you do it at the same time? I think we can do it at the same time. Something that El Paso, ISD has been doing very effectively is setting up community programs, particularly in the south side of El Paso, uh, Rio and Baral.

[00:11:11] These are areas of the city that are closest to the US Mexico border, and they have historically been neglected by the city. Um, so we like a lot of towns in the west and south. The United States has, uh, a freeway running through, uh, the heart of our city, and that serves as a sort of socioeconomic dividing line.

[00:11:32] So those south side schools, um, receive support from El Paso, ISD, uh, in, in terms of making sure that, uh, students have all the meals they need so that they can focus on, uh, learning that you have. Support in place after school, um, and that the entire community knows that the school itself is a place, um, where they can get resources that they need that are essential to raising children.

[00:12:00] Um, we also have a number of local partnerships with, uh, the El Paso Community Foundation and, um, a number of other, uh, organizations that are very active with parents so that there are opportunities for parents to. Learn about, um, you know, financial literacy, uh, to figure out ways to better serve their own student, their own children.

[00:12:25] Uh, so we are trying to be as holistic as possible. Um, and those are programs that are actually expanding across the city. Uh, we had recently, um, you know, a headline where there’s about a hundred thousand folks on the low income. Housing waiting list in El Paso. So this is a constant challenge in a city like ours.

[00:12:48] It’s a low income city. It has been historically. It, it’s something that, uh, we hope that through education, uh, we can really raise the bar on that, uh, in the years and decades to come. But it’s something that, you know, it requires a holistic approach. It requires, uh, everybody being, uh, on board and, and pointing in the right direction on that.

[00:13:09] It, it’s so interesting to hear you, uh, talk about this, uh, in such detail, Jack, because I mean, what you’re articulating is, is the historic mission. Schools have always served in communities, going back to the common schools of the 19th century, where they really are community resources. It’s the children are only one component of the school.

[00:13:26] Right?

[00:13:28] That’s right. And I think as much as possible, you know, we, we have to be fostering a culture of literacy, a culture of reading and writing. Um, we have been advocating as well, um, for eighth grade algebra for all students. It’s, it’s something that should be consistent across the board, but thinking about it as a community resource that’s available in, in every, in every neighborhood.

[00:13:53] Right. Um, and that, you know, kind of leads me to the challenge of, uh, you know, infill development. We really wanna attract. Uh, more and more families to the core of El Paso. Um, we have built a lot of houses in the northwestern section of the city and in the eastern parts of the county. And that means that the core of the city, um, has fewer and fewer resources available to, uh, the entire neighborhoods.

[00:14:18] And among those resources are schools, libraries, swimming pools, and all the rest. So we really need to turn the corner on that and, and make sure that Central El Paso is, is a great place to live. And something that, uh, is key to that I think is a, is a neighborhood school, right. So that’s, that’s our objectives and it’s just gonna be a long road.

[00:14:39] So,

[00:14:40] yeah. And, and it’s so I stay

[00:14:41] optimistic.

[00:14:43] No, and I, I love your optimism and energy and your analytical prowess on this. I mean, it, it, it’s such a. Challenging but crucial issue, right? People will only move to the center of El Paso if you have good schools there. Uh, but you can only have good schools if you get people to move there.

[00:14:58] Right. So there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, a, a vicious cycle of a sorts. How, how have you dealt with the school choice movement, which of course is very strong in Texas. Uh, the Texas legislature, just this last session before the special session passed, um, funding for voucher, a voucher program where, uh.

[00:15:17] Families that send their kids to private schools and parochial schools will get a tax credit, um, money that will come out of the public school budget one way or another. Um, so how, how have you dealt with that?

[00:15:31] Um, it’s gonna be a process. Uh, I have to say we haven’t seen the full effect of it, obviously, because it’s, it’s just gone on to the books.

[00:15:40] Um, but I think that our parochial school system locally, the diocese of El Paso, I think runs the largest, uh, and I was, I’m also a product of that. I did elementary school at St. Pius ii, uh, Catholic School. I think they can be partners, uh, more than anything. I, the, the budget challenges are acute, but we do not wanna be creating, um, sort of rival schooling systems.

[00:16:05] We wanna make sure that. All of the students who come through any of the school systems in El Paso are, uh, getting the highest quality education. So I think partnership is the way to approach that because there’s little we can do, uh, when, you know, a family decides they’re either going to send, uh, their, their child to a.

[00:16:25] Um, a parochial school or private school or homeschool, there’s really little we can do, uh, to recoup that $10,000 credit that that goes out, uh, as a state. So I think, you know, keeping that highest priority, uh, academic outcomes for all, uh, is really the best way to deal with it. Um, in terms of the financial challenge on our end, I’m, I’m happy to talk, um, a bit more about, uh, the sort of cost saving measures that we are forced to, uh, implement internally.

[00:16:54] I just wish that, uh, these laws that come down from Austin, from the state legislature weren’t, you know, so blatantly designed to, to pit uh, schooling systems against one another because I think we can all work in tandem, uh, for the benefit of all.

[00:17:11] What, what are some of the specific cuts you, you’ve had to plan for now because of the school vouchers

[00:17:18] recently?

[00:17:19] Um, last November, in fact, uh, we had to implement a plan called Destination District Redesign. Um, and that was, um, a plan design by the administration and the board at the time, uh, to reduce the number of schools within, uh, El Paso, ISD. So we have, uh. Begun the process of closing seven schools. Um, wow. Five this year and two next year.

[00:17:46] Um, all of them are elementary schools in this round, and some of them are in fact, um, you know, rather under-enrolled. Um, I have voted against the ultimate, uh, proposal from the district on that because I felt that not enough attention was given. Uh, to academic outcomes. We were, for instance, uh, planning to close an a-rated campus, a Lamar Elementary that had twice won a National Blue Ribbon Award, and that served, uh, a 95% or higher, uh, economically disadvantaged population.

[00:18:20] So those are things that we have to do. We know that we need to tighten our belt. We know that we need to consolidate and close schools because of that outflow of the population and because. Birth rates are down, but at the same time, so much depends on how we do it. And I think if we ignore the academic, uh, performance of schools in that process, or if we.

[00:18:42] Um, are going to be closing schools that serve economically disadvantaged students and kind of hollowing out the core of those neighborhoods. I think it’s just creating a cascading effect, uh, where you’re causing flight from the core of the city. And, you know, it’s just from my perspective, it is, um, just an injustice.

[00:19:02] To lay that on the backs of those students yet again. And some of these students, um, are kids who’ve been transferred out from previous closures. So we have to do this in a very delicate way. We have to perform, um, a good analysis of the situation and make sure that, you know, we are tracking outcomes over a long period of time.

[00:19:24] Could you say a little bit more about, um, what the school closure or consolidation is it often as it as it’s often called process looks like in a district like El Paso? Um, these closures, as you know, are becoming increasingly common across Texas and are honestly probably some of the biggest decisions that school districts will be making in the coming year.

[00:19:45] Um, what does it look like when you close a school, um, and why are districts in a position that they need to, to close schools? It, it’s a very difficult conversation that begins, um, with the community and, and I think that’s where school districts tend to. Go off the rails in a sense, in, in the process, uh, these closures processes involve community consultations.

[00:20:12] I attended a great many of them, um, and a fair amount of research is done by the district itself. And, um, finding the sort of receiving school, the sister school, um, for those students. But it involves so many moving parts, uh, concerns over transportation. Um, we added busing routes in the original proposal, for instance.

[00:20:34] Um, and then concerns over how staff will be handled. Will that, uh, closures process, um, mean that we’re going to reduce our, our personnel, our, our, our, our teaching staff. And generally speaking, um, at least in E-P-I-S-D that did not happen. Uh, the majority of personnel cuts were done through attrition. Um, and so we were able to protect our, our teaching force.

[00:21:03] But at the same time, that’s where the vast majority of savings can be found. Any particular campus personnel is the number one cost. Um, not, you know, maintenance and operations of the, the physical structures themselves. So that process, you know, because it involves so many moving parts. When you have a large scale closures process, the original proposal was 10 schools, not seven.

[00:21:29] And so a number of community organizations came out. Parents and teachers came out and they voiced opposition to the whole plan. Uh, in that discussion and, and back and forth, three schools ultimately came off that list, but that original list was 20% of our elementary school inventory. So I think the larger the process is, the greater number of schools you’re doing in one go, the more risk there is, uh, to losing sight of academic outcomes, of ensuring that your transportation system, your busing routes, are all in place.

[00:22:06] So it becomes this massive undertaking for a district that I think really draws attention away from the day-to-day mission of the, of the district, while that consultation process, while the research and all the rest is taking place. Hmm, Hmm.

[00:22:21] How do you address Jack as all this is happening? Uh, what are obviously very strong political currents that come into meetings and discussions?

[00:22:32] Um, there’s a parents’ rights movement, as it’s called that’s that’s often challenging. Um, basic ways of teaching and basic requirements for vaccinations and things of that. I, I, I don’t want us to litigate the politics of that. We’re not gonna Yeah. Make any progress, but I know you have to deal with it.

[00:22:49] How do, how do you address that?

[00:22:51] I think being as common sense as possible, um, and focusing on the areas where we can find alignment. For instance, um, we have a, an attendance problem in El Paso, ISD, we have an exemption under our dis district of innovation status from the 90% rule, meaning if a student attends, uh, less than 90% of of classes in El Paso, YSD, they can still get credit, they can still do makeup work.

[00:23:18] So what many students and a lot of parents don’t know is that our, uh, funding from the state of Texas is really dependent on average daily attendance figures. And so when those numbers slip below 90%, they’re, they’re in the high eighties for a lot of campuses, or are one of our high schools has an 83% average daily attendance rate.

[00:23:41] Each percentage point districtwide, uh, represents $3 million in state funding.

[00:23:47] Wow.

[00:23:48] We operate in a budget of half a half a billion dollars. So, uh, each school’s operating budget tends to be between 2.73, uh, $0.2 million. So each percentage point represents the operating budget of a school. For me, that’s something that we can find agreement on, um, with, um, you know, folks who might, you know, find those hot, but issues to be the sort of lead for them.

[00:24:17] They’re, they’re, they participate in politics because of issue A, issue B, issue C, but we can all agree that the best place for it. 16-year-old kid who’s in high school is probably in the classroom, right? So that’s, that’s where I wanna land. And I wanna make sure that, you know, our target of 94%, we’re at 91%.

[00:24:39] That’s a gap of $9 million there that we can close. Not to mention the learning loss, uh, which is significant. And I think our academic outcomes reflect, um, our, uh, attendance rates and, and, and that, so I, I think we can find areas of agreement. I’m, I’m very hopeful on that. And I think the majority of, of, of parents and taxpayers.

[00:25:05] See that as a common sense solution to a problem. That’s, that’s just a practical matter. It’s, it’s not a, a political passion project for anyone. It’s boring. So

[00:25:16] boring is good sometimes.

[00:25:18] Yes. Boring is good. Um, speaking of maybe the less boring side, um, how. Is your, your district approaching all these kinds of new technologies that are, um, you know, maybe threatening, uh, the educational status quo, or offering new opportunities depending on how you look at it.

[00:25:38] And maybe a bit of both, but how, for example, is your district handling questions around AI use? Um, how are you mm-hmm. Implementing policies on social media, uh, et cetera. Well, in a very basic way, last night we passed, um, our, our version of the cell phone ban. So the state of Texas has, uh, issued a personal device ban during the school day, um, and left it up to the individual school districts to interpret how to enforce that.

[00:26:08] So last night we, um. We passed, um, our version of that and, uh, we’re hopeful that it can be implemented effectively. I wish there had been significantly clearer language, uh, coming down from the legislature and the Texas Education Agency did what it could, uh, to help us with that. Speaking about artificial intelligence, um, for us, uh, in El Paso, uh, we’ve made an investment here at the University of Texas, um, in, uh, artificial intelligence as a, as a bachelor of science degree, uh, at the undergraduate level.

[00:26:45] And what our school district, um, can do is really create pathways at the high school level. So that students are well prepared to enter that program, and that’s not just focused on artificial intelligence, but it’s a, a broader com computing, um, module that they would be able to take there at utep. Um, so preparing them not just to learn a, not learn with AI or learn through ai, but to learn about it, learn about its risks, its limitations, how not to be deceived by generative AI and all the rest.

[00:27:20] I think that’s what, um, our priority is, is, is taking shape as, uh, in El Paso, ISD and we’re glad to have a partner locally in, in UTEP that is attempting to, to, you know, stake out their claim, uh, in, in this new territory. So, you know, it’s gonna be a very difficult challenge when it comes to examinations, when it comes to testing.

[00:27:43] Um, but we think that awareness, uh, is a very important, uh, first step in addressing the problem, not just for our students, but for our teachers as well. So that partnership’s gonna be very, very important. Okay. That makes sense. Um, I wanted to ask too, um, I know El Paso, as many of our listeners probably know as well, is is a bilingual city in many ways.

[00:28:04] Yes, it is. How does your district, uh, handle the challenge or the opportunity of bilingual education, um, while also dealing with all of these other funding tech challenges? It’s been a tremendous opportunity for us, um, in El Paso, YSD The, uh, board president who I work with very closely, Leah Nanni, has championed, uh, dual language education, um, across, uh, El Paso, YSD.

[00:28:31] Um, and we’ve made a, a pretty significant investment in, in attempting to be as, as, as close to the top as possible, as close to the cutting edge as po as possible in doing that, um, so many of our students are Spanish language speakers when they enter, uh, El Paso, YSD and. Um, you know, my, my mother grew up on the south side of El Paso.

[00:28:53] Her first language was Spanish. Uh, she hesitated to teach me Spanish as a child because of, you know, the old thinking that if you’re learning two languages at once, you’re gonna be at a disadvantage. Uh, we wanna turn that. On its head and show that being multilingual is a tremendous intellectual benefit.

[00:29:13] It’s a tremendous, uh, benefit, uh, for one’s career development as well. So we’re proud of the dual language program here in El Paso where we think it’s, it’s really rather unique, uh, and it really reflects the fact that. Uh, our city is 80% Latino, and it is, it is very, very deeply rooted in the Hispanic culture.

[00:29:35] And so, uh, I’m very proud of our strides on that. And that’s yet another collaboration that we’ve managed to fill out, um, with, uh, the University of Texas at El Paso. So. These are are vital things that we can do, uh, you know, to make sure that the entire picture of education in El Paso is very clear and very bright.

[00:29:57] It’s, it’s such a central element of the culture of El Paso and, and in building, coming back to your earlier point, Jack, you know, in building schools that are really community resources, I mean, they, they have to be bilingual, right?

[00:30:11] That’s right. And, and one thing that we haven’t done as well, uh, in El Paso, ISD and I, I, you know, despite my optimism, I’m often criticizing the, the school district, I’m often pushing back against, um.

[00:30:26] Certain administrative policies? Well, we, one thing we haven’t done as well is ensuring that we have translators at every single function, every single event, and that all district communications are bilingual by default. Right. I think that it’s, it’s just something that. We have to, to see as a benefit. It, it’s just positive, uh, absolutely.

[00:30:49] Spanish and English side by side and in conversation. So

[00:30:52] Absolutely. And I think, and I think all the, as as I understand it all or most of the academic research supports that, that actually it’s a, it’s a huge benefit, huge benefit for children to learn, uh, learn and, and grow speaking multiple languages.

[00:31:04] In fact, we under teach language in our society, not over teach it. Um, that’s right. Yeah, so, so Jack, I wanted to sort of, as we come to a close, this is the question before the closing one. ’cause it’s the, it’s the most controversial one. Then we’ll ask one that’s allows you to be more optimistic, but, but we’ve been sort of bracketing and waiting for this.

[00:31:25] The immigration issue. I mean, it seems to me it’s, it’s, it’s screaming to be asked around these issues. As most of our listeners know, El Paso is, it’s not just a border community. It’s a community that traditionally, for hundreds and hundreds of years has had people going back and forth. And, uh, for that reason, uh, that that creates as, as you know, better than anyone, it creates such a, a, a wonderful hybrid culture in El Paso.

[00:31:51] But it also means that when you have strict immigration restrictions and you have, um. Ice going around and arresting people, that there’s a lot of vulnerability and fear, probably more in parts of El Paso than almost anywhere else in the country, uh, that that’s gotta cut against your efforts to get attendance up.

[00:32:10] That’s gotta be a problem in bringing families in. Uh, I, I, how, how are you dealing with this

[00:32:17] as much as possible? It really requires us, uh, to protect the rights and identities of, of. Uh, communities that are uncertain of their status and that are concerned with enforcement actions we’re, you know, from January onward we’ve been in close communication with our local government, with our city and county governments, as well as with Congresswoman Escobar to make sure that we’re aware of any possible enforcement actions that are occurring.

[00:32:49] Um, so our legal guidance on that as a school district, um, has been, you know, a process of notification and it gets, uh, kicked immediately to our legal department. But I think more practically, um, all of us in this city, uh, have grown up thinking of the border as a porous thing. And this is something that.

[00:33:13] Has been a benefit for us as a community. We have 2.7 million people in this region, and the majority of those people are, are not factored into our planning, into our, uh, overall equation because they’re on the other side of the, of the river, of the Rio Grande River. So we really feel like this is a. A period like the previous four years that will hopefully, um, pass, uh, because the enforcement has been so heavy handed nationwide.

[00:33:47] And our priorities, therefore, is to protect our community as a whole and to make sure that our conversations are, are sticking with practical matters like how, um, we can better serve our students, uh, from an academic standpoint. So, you know, El Pasoans. Um, we’ll get through this period. Um, their relationships with, um, the huis will continue to, uh, proceed as as normal, and I think we can, we can put this period behind us, but we do need practical.

[00:34:22] Legislation, um, on immigration. We need to be treating this as a problem that can be solved and not as a political football that needs to be tossed back and forth, uh, for the rest of time, so, right, right. I just think there’s ways of focusing on government as, uh, as a service provider and, and government as.

[00:34:43] Less of a dividing force within the public.

[00:34:47] Right. And also one would hope, um, putting the social welfare of human beings first, which was bipartisan consensus for a long time. Have you had What happened to that? Yeah, exactly. Have you had, um, students arrested on school grounds?

[00:35:07] Not on school grounds, not to my knowledge.

[00:35:09] Um, and that is something that we, you know, that was our first and foremost concern, um, in late January of this year. Um, it is just something though that has a chilling effect throughout the entire community. Um, and this is for, um, families whose, you know, immigration status is, is all but certain I folks who are citizens of the United States are concerned with.

[00:35:35] Uh, these enforcement actions, DACA recipients, um, folks that I know have been arrested at the El Paso International Airport. And so it’s, it’s absolutely, you know, changed the tone and timber of our local conversations. We, we do feel it, but we have lived through challenging times before as a community. Of course, you know, there was that racially motivated shooting gear.

[00:36:02] Uh, at the Walmart in El Paso in August of 20, uh, 19.

[00:36:07] Yes.

[00:36:07] And that really transformed the outlook of so many El Paso in. This is a military community as well, one of the largest military installations in the country, Fort Bliss. Uh, it’s a patriotic community too. Um, it’s very difficult to walk down a street in El Paso without.

[00:36:22] Seeing a great number of, uh, US flags flying, uh, on any given day in the summer. So this is kind of a shock, uh, to El Paso winds, but at the same time, we’ve lived through difficult times before and I think we come out stronger on the other side.

[00:36:40] So, so to close, Jack, you’ve, you’ve given us so much to think about and, and really helped to, to paint a picture of the, the possibilities and challenges, the optimism and the, the hindrances that, that, uh, a, a vibrant school district like El Paso, uh, is facing.

[00:36:58] One of the things that’s most extraordinary to me is how much time you’re clearly putting into this. And there are people like you, there are people like you in every school district here in Austin and many others. Um, oftentimes when I talk to, uh, young people, when I talk to the, you know, the, the Jack Loveridge who was in my graduate seminar years ago, right?

[00:37:18] School board. Service is not something they think about. They do think about public service, young people. Many of our listeners, I think, care about public service, but school board is usually not at the top of their list. Uh, tell us why you’re doing this and why others should do it. Make the case for our listeners to join their school boards.

[00:37:35] Absolutely. I, I moved back to El Paso, uh, with my wife Christine, uh, who’s from Chicago in 2021 during the pandemic. And we moved back partly because of what happened in August of 2019. It really. Um, you know, kind of woke me up, uh, to the challenges that our community faces, especially when it comes to this national, uh, climate, uh, political climate.

[00:38:00] And so, El Paso was a destination for us. I’m an only child. My parents, uh, both of them were educators. My mom worked at, uh, the parochial school. I mentioned St. Pius. My dad worked at Austin High School. The school that I now represent on the board of trustees. So moving back to El Paso was a no-brainer, um, for us, uh, in 2021 during the pandemic, but at the same time.

[00:38:24] We wanted to, uh, do work here in town that moved the needle, uh, on our, our economic situation. Uh, El Paso’s a low income community, and so starting a business in town, uh, was one of those things. And when the opportunity came to seek appointment to the board, I was elected. Just in May, but I was appointed before that, uh, in April of 2024.

[00:38:50] I jumped at it because education, if you’re trying to solve an economic problem in a community, education’s the tip of the spear. And it made a lot of sense for me given the legacy of my family’s involvement in local schools. Um, and knowing that we really can’t turn the corner on our development as a community on our development as a.

[00:39:13] As a society, really in El Paso, our development is a democracy, uh, unless we have well-educated, uh, students, well-educated children who have older opportunities that, uh, a comfortably sized city does. So for me, it just is really. Getting to the root of the problem, uh, for a community that faces challenges economically.

[00:39:36] And, and from a governmental standpoint, our, our, uh, you know, voting participation is, is dreadfully low. So I like to say I won with 72% of the vote back in May, but I know everyone who voted for me. So we have to move the, we have to move that and, and really improve voter participation and make. People better aware of how to change their government and change the society around them.

[00:40:02] But being on the board as you are and vice president now, do you really feel like you’re able to make a difference? Do, do, do you, I mean, that’s all often the question I’m asked by, by students, if I do this, will it move the needle?

[00:40:16] Uh, every day? I feel like we have made progress. Um, I know that sometimes it’s not as significant as.

[00:40:26] Uh, it ought to be, and it really is quite the hill decline. But when I’m able to solve the problem for a constituent who’s concerned about their student, who’s not been picked up by a bus because the bus route is missing, for instance, that really feels good. It, I know that it made a difference and it’s, it’s practical, uh, in such a, an intimate sense.

[00:40:51] You know, it’s not something in the abstract. And then when we do something like. Um, open a high performing school, keep open, a high performing school that I feel was unjustly closed. That to me, um, is, is very rewarding and I think it will, uh, really help out all of the families who are associated with that learning community.

[00:41:11] So, yeah, I, I would encourage, uh, anyone who wants to do it, it’s a voluntary position. In fact, um, you know, it, it’s something that you’ll end up. Uh, you know, it’ll end up costing you financially, but it’ll pay dividends in the long run. I feel good. I sleep well at night and I’m, I’m glad of every decision that we’ve made as a school board, uh, you know, since.

[00:41:34] Since that majority came our way back in May. So

[00:41:38] Zachary, are you sold? Is uh, do you see, uh, a movement of young, of young people like you, uh, getting involved in school boards? I mean, a lot of school boards tend to be gray hairs, older people, right? Do you see that? That’s right. Do you see that changing, Zachary?

[00:41:53] I think that young

[00:41:53] people are. Looking for places like school boards where they can make a difference when they feel that national politics doesn’t represent them or doesn’t represent their politics. Um, and I think, uh, what’s amazing about school boards as uh, Jack just said is, you know how personal it is.

[00:42:12] Like you’re helping one person or one person is coming to complain about something that you can solve. Um, and I’ve spent a lot of time covering the New Haven School Board for the Yale Daily News end. That’s something that has always struck me about it is you go to the Board of education meetings and people actually show up.

[00:42:27] Right? And they’re not just, but they’re not just talking to politicians, uh, in Washington. They’re talking to people who live next door to them. Right? Their neighbors and their fellow parents. Uh, or their fellow teachers. Um, and I think that there’s something really powerful in that kind of personal politics.

[00:42:40] Yeah, that makes sense. I hope all of our listeners will take inspiration and, and optimism from Jack. I, I think what’s been so extraordinary about this conversation has been the fine grained, uh, analysis you’ve given us Jack and description also of, of the, you know, the challenges schools face from, uh, finance to immigration.

[00:43:02] Uh, but yet at the same time, um, the continued purpose and idealism and hope that’s represented by schools and public schools, in particular, the schools that, that take everyone, the schools that don’t get to decide, uh, who they want to cherry pick and, and who they don’t. It, it, there’s nothing more American than public schools.

[00:43:21] We invented the high school in the United States and, and Jack, I think what what you’re doing is more than almost anything else. Protecting democracy in action on a day-to-day basis. Uh, thanks for your service, Jack, and, and thanks for joining us today for taking the time away from your school board meetings to talk to us.

[00:43:37] Well, it’s a, it really is a pleasure. Thank you so much, Jeremy. Thank you, Zachary. And I look forward to all the great things that you’re doing up, uh, hearing more about all the great things you’re doing up there in New Haven. Thank you.

[00:43:48] Uh. Thank you, Zachary. Yes. For, uh, your wonderful questions, your own reporting.

[00:43:53] I hope our listeners will also go to Zachary’s reporting on KUT this Summer on schools. And, uh, I also wanna thank of course our loyal listeners, uh, for listening to our podcast each week for subscribing to our substack and for joining us for this week of This is Democracy.

[00:44:14] This podcast is produced by the Liberal Arts ITS. Development Studio

[00:44:18] and the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Texas at Austin.

[00:44:22] The music in this episode was written and recorded by Scott Holmes. Stay tuned for a new episode every week You can find This is Democracy on Apple Podcast, Spotify and YouTube.

[00:44:35] See you next time.