This is Democracy – Episode 297: Free Speech and Repression in Turkey

[00:03:00] Jeremi Suri: Nedim Turfent. it is really, a great pleasure for Zachary and for me to have a chance to talk with you and to share your work and your experience, with our subscribers and hopefully with the larger public. I was telling. Some people yesterday Nedim, that, I think you are in many ways, not only an inspiration, you are the, conscience, the moral conscience of our world right now.
You and many others like you who are standing up for justice and, freedom of the press and freedom of speech. And I just want to begin. Okay, good. So the first question, Nedim, I had for you is can you, share with our audience some of your experience? How did you get in trouble with Turkish authorities?
What were you doing? And what happened? What happened, that, that landed you in jail? What happened?
[00:03:49] Nedim Türfent: First of all, I’m really grateful to each of you to gimme me this, unique opportunity. until, a few days ago, we had no connections with each other. but now we have connection among us. If all the, journalists in the world, if all the poets, others, writers in the world.
write the truth or speak the truth, then we will not recall any journalist in the word that you are unique. You are extraordinary, man or woman. first of all, I want to, draw attention on this truth. I’m all an ordinary journalist and I, try to do cut the truth, whatever the price, whatever the cost is.
and the cost was really, heavy. For one person, to shelter it. but with the help of, an international support and solidarity campaign, I succeeded it. And I, and now I am here with you. I started my journalist journalism career in 2012. In east of Turkey where, the, a great majority of the population is Kurdish.
And I was worked for, a procure news agency, digital news agency, through all my journalistic carrier. I tried to do focus on human rights violations, and at that time when I started my journalist career, there was a peace process between the Kur and Turkish courses. but after two years, the regime, they stopped, the peace process and heavy, armed clash broke out in the border Arabia with Iraq and Iran, and also in the, Northern Kurdistan in the K cities of Turkey.
And, you know better than me when there is a war. When, where there is a collage between, armed, forces between militaries, then human rights violations are on the rights at such forces. And then I was reporting about this human rights violations, in my hometown actually, which is just at the corner of Iraq and Iran.
The Turkish are made. Turkish police, Turkish soldiers, try to be disturbed by, my reports because, for example, they are killed big civilians. And I’m reporting, this, human rights violations. they are taking, civilians, under detention with torture and mistreatment. And I’m photo, I’m taking photo and, recorded videos of this, inhuman, incidents that after some time after all these women right violation are known in the national media.
They start, started to, target me and, put me, as their target. and my story of, I, resembled my story to Pandora’s box. Maybe, from the ancient Greek, methodology, there is a Pan Pandora’s box. And this Pandora’s box brings both hope, but at the same time, a, a great kinds of, badness, a cruelty.
This, story of writing about human rights regulations brings me a big majority, of, cruelty and repression oppression, but at the same time a unique, solid dirty that, put, all the walls and, borders meaningless.
[00:07:57] Jeremi Suri: can you read us one of your poems that you wrote while you were in prison?
Yeah,
[00:08:03] Nedim Türfent: I want to read, one of my poetry that’s, when I was in prison, under an absolute, isolation, an international, started a campaign to raise my voice, all over the world.
And they translated, this poem, into over 20 language. and one day, the, and he, gave me, he gave me one of, a bag of documents and I saw that there’s over 20 different language, one my poem, and I was shocked. And then I understand that, when you put a pre a journalist or a code under an aggravated isolation, you cannot silence him because, when we, when we organize a network of, support and solidarity among us to, make the cryo.
every people, every human being in the world, nobody, nobles, no borders, no prisons can, of us over to the cause roaming over the country. Let your heart be a remedy to those who fight for happiness. Let it be a resistance
to the captive. Interrogation, let it be patience to do with a set of taste left. Let it feel the most of unhappy with hips of laughter. Let your heart be so mighty that it shelters monsters of hope. Let your heart become earth and pour elixir into winds. Bring fertility to the soil from the spins behind the mountain.
Let the benevolence of the crops with a silver key of life. Let your heart serve the pea, the day walker, the agricultural laborer. Let your heart be worthy for those in distress. Let it be a cure. Let it massage the broken links of birds with ointments. Let it grant your reach to the hands working collectively in solidarity.
Let your heart feel deep giving butterflies an extra day of life. Let it be a lifeline like the womb. Let your heart be a crystal clear, as clear as water spin to the barrier forever. Let it suckle me from the son’s pure breath and feed the need with unchanged timber of the life. Let your heart give life to the lifeless.
[00:10:34] Jeremi Suri: That’s a very moving poem Zachary did. You’re a poet as well. What is your reaction to that
[00:10:39] Zachary Suri: poem? I think, This poem, sort of show shows the power of poetry to capture the, the, spirit of, resistance, if you will, as I think, Nadiem says in the poem. but also, the way that poetry can, as also said, ground us in solidarity or a feeling of being together or.
and shared spirit with others, even when we are far apart, or in complete isolation. It’s a, way of reaching out. and I, think that comes through so powerfully in this poem.
[00:11:17] Jeremi Suri: how did the poems, touch you, Zachary, when you read them? a as someone who’s followed a little bit, what’s happening in terms, most of us are not experts on this.
How, did it educate and affect you?
[00:11:33] Zachary Suri: Good question. I, think the poems, first of all, one thing that comes to, I think very clearly on the poem, this sort of in, in this poem in particular, but in all the poems, is the sort of connect land, that you feel. it, I think it gives a feel to the sort of larger struggle of the Kurdish people in general, that I think is sometimes hard to grasp from far away or from someone who doesn’t have that knowledge of the region.
but it also. The poetry also just really kept personal toll of that kind of oppression. And, the way in which it requires this kind of overwhelming spiritual, almost like medical response, how that’s like the only way to survive. it’s not something that’s grasp without experiencing it yourself.
[00:12:23] Jeremi Suri: Do you have a question for Nedim? Zach?
[00:12:26] Zachary Suri: Yeah, I, wanted to ask, How do you want people to react when they read your poems? what do you want people to feel? And, I want to ask as well, when you do read these poems to people around the world, what kind of reactions do you get?
[00:12:41] Nedim Türfent: as I, first of all, as I said before, my aim to, compose this poetry was too, To, say people that, never give up. and please, protect your hope. whatever, your conditions, are, human being is such a, existence that when, you put him among was or behind, iron was, his or her secret. Or imagination, finds a way to go out. And at that time for me, escaping from prison and with the help of, poetry, I was outside.
I was free. I was not in prison. So I’m, calling on, the people who are, reading this poem. Maybe the enemy of press, the enemy of human beings, the enemy of nature, the, enemy of, all the existence, in the world. Maybe they are powerful, but they’re not as powerful as the words we have.
They are not as powerful as, our hearts. in short, in our, journey to towards a more peaceful or. Free, words, literature, poetry, or press freedom? Freedom of thought. for us, I think there, I knew well, indispensable, principles that we should, protect and if we make bridge, For example, the US people now hearing me or in Turkey or in Asia or in Africa, if we, protect or create some breach of, solidarity among different kinds, then we will survive, and succeed, despite all the, difficulties that we are suffering now.
[00:14:56] Jeremi Suri: Do. Have you found Nedim that, in your poetry you have been able to, connect with other human rights activists?
Do you feel that your struggle is an international struggle, not just a Turkish struggle of, course, it’s an international
[00:15:13] Nedim Türfent: struggle. if you, want, I will, tell about, the importance of international. So solidarity for me. And in this way you will understand that international solar is really meaningful and also taking results.
in the first, years of my imprisonment, I start to, the Turkish Army, army, the Turk, I started to. Write, the cases and stories of other political prisoners, other journalists, other politicians there, after some time I will tell about the process. For example, I am, preparing some questions, writing in a paper.
I’m throwing the paper over the wall, and another in the next cell. He, answer my questions and then, I prepared my report and or article. Then I sent, the article with a letter or with, with my lawyer to outside and they publish it in websites or in newspapers. So the prison administration was this told by my act, of writing in prison, even in prison, they put me, under in isolation that I, had no contact to anybody.
All around, the around, prisons was empty and for a long time I was, for 18 months I was under that, isolation. But then international human rights organizations and also, organization like Pan International and all its brains, amnesty International, indexed on censorship and lots of other organizations.
Started to campaign for my, prison, rights, my conditions in prison, and also my freedom. And, after, few, weeks, all of all across Europe, letters of solidarity and support, reach my prison, sir. And then the prison administration changed. My condition, I wa they, they put me in a normal prison cell.
and in that process, the solidarity, I, worked to an earlier time, but at the same time, when it is not possible to bring your, freedom to earlier time, it cha it changed your prison conditions. It helped, you and it make pressure on the prison administration. to when they think about violating your right.
For example, even in prison, we have rights. We have right to call up our family. We have right to visit, our, family have visit to, has right to visit us and lots of other, for example, receiving books, reading books, other rights we have in. When the prison administration, administration thinks about, let’s put Nadiem in, in, isolation.
think twice. They think three times. they think four times because they know that when they violate my international campaign will be bigger on the government. to short to sum up, of course, international, solidarity helped me and of course it helped me to compose poetry.
It helped me to survive the process. And without the international, campaign, maybe I was still behind parts. Who knows? It’s Turkey. When were you released and why? And before release, if you had. I will go on with, go on with the judgment process if it’s okay for you.
[00:19:14] Jeremi Suri: Yes, please. I was, published a video footage that the Turkish police officers, tur, a group of Kish workers in my hometown.
[00:19:24] Nedim Türfent: After the video, the Turkish police, was target me in a systematical way for a, for few months. Just in the first days of the, my report, the Turkish ministry, launched an investigation, towards, against the police that, toward security workers. I knew from my, witness of the, actual history that when the Turkish police, when the Turkish government or Turkish, courts launched investigation towards police or towards, soldiers, it’s an in on, in an only formal way, they do nothing.
they, launched in, and then after a short time I noticed that, they, they tried to make oppression, on me just because of there was a, There was a process in Turkey in 2000 broke out in the city centers, and I was following, the process in my hometown Zea. And in Zea there was a curfew, there was a curfew that last four months in just before that curfew.
the police, tragedy threaten me with that. They shared an, message on their ex on there. At that time, Twitter account that, where are you, at every dead body that we killing in the, class, we are looking whether this dead body is yours or not. And my lawyer, parliament purist, parliamentary journalists, tech organizations.
We, we su against this, share and the police. but they did nothing. they did nothing. we, re received, nor, we didn’t take any results from our, applications to the court. in 2016, in May, Maine, the Turkish police, Detained me and under de under detention, they tried to kill me.
They brought me, to a, mountain in, one, in a courtesy. they put a, a, black bag on my face. they handcuffed me behind and, they all air just to, make me frighten it. But they were since there. they tried to kill me. They are not, just joking, or such a thing.
I, know from, them, but, huge, solidarity for me. They couldn’t kill me, but they put me in prison. the prison, process was really difficult for me, because of that, I relation process that I was talking about a few minutes later. but after 11, after 13 months, my indictments came and I saw that they, they said, Nedim, you are a terrorist.
But no evidence why I am terrorist. I had a pen and I had a camera on my hand. I am reporting and writing, I’m speaking, but in Turkey, there is a, low, understanding that. When, for example, I said, you, you are a terrorist. You have to, make it clear that you are not a terrorist, but you are a civilian or you are a innocent, person.
But according to the international law, when the court, launch an investigation towards you, the court and the pro. Has to make it clear that you make this crime. You are, guilty, but in, in Turkey, you have to defend or you ha you have to make it clear that you are innocent. Innocent, Don’t need that. Doesn’t need any evidence, but crime need evidence. I don’t know if I, am you, understand? First, process of hearing, me and my lawyers, we, because in Turkey, yeah, in Turkey, there is, there is a law, all that. Every suspect, every person has the right to go to the, court, to go to the hearing and defend himself physically.
They denied my right and I had to defend myself in the prison cell, video, via video conference system. And they brought, a translator for me because I defend, myself, in good at, or is, is good at, speaking or defending himself in his or her mother tongue. So I, thought that I was, I should said to the court that, judge, I am not good at Kurdish and Turkish translation. Please change me and bring another translator for, because, there is a very, important thing because you will, you, are the demanding 20 years of penalty towards Nedim. It’s your demand that Nedim has to defend himself as far as he can, as far in the best way.
but, the court and the judge didn’t change, the translator and, my, the, defense in Kurdish was not totally translated. These, are small violations. Small violations. I will tell about the, most important violation during the, judgment. the, per prosecutor, brought about 20 witness to testify against me.
All the witness that came, came to the court. They said, the Turkish police, tortured them to, testify against me. I will give two example, two. Shocking example of them. A young woman. They came to the court and she said, to the, to the judge. my name is Roj. I’m Turkish Police. be before, 2 months.
Ago, I think two, it was two months ago when I was in prison, of course, she said, Turkish police threatened me and said, me, RO, if you didn’t sign this paper against Nedim, we will rape you. Police said to the young women to take boy against me, and she fa she, she was afraid of rape at that time.
Of curfew because there was a curfew. And if Turkish police raped her, nobody maybe will hear about this, story. And the second example, shocking example, was that a young man about, I think he was 20 or 21 years old, he came, he showed, he opened it, his mouth, and he showed his teeth to the judge. It was a broken tip.
He said to the judge, the Turkish police, broke my teeth and to against Nedim and all the other, witness, they told about the process of torturing being tortured by Turkish police and, signing the papers that police prepared, against me. And on that papers. Their journalistic work. For example, CEPT.
Adam Truant is a journalist, but he is working for terrorist organization. He is taking photos in the streets and he making, with the purpose that we are, coll violations. and they give me eight years and nine months. And, according to the Turkish law, you have to spend 20, 25% of your penalty outside and 75% of your penalty, in prison.
I finished, my part and I was released in the end of, 2000, 22. But conditionally means that after your release, Turkish police, Turkish soldier, Turkish court, or Turkish government ask. Are following you, and when you disturb them, which one of your articles, one of your speech or one of your statements or one of your, social media sharing, they will put you in prison again to spend the 25% again in prison.
Wow.
[00:28:19] Jeremi Suri: Wow. so did you continue your work when you left prison? What did you do then?
[00:28:26] Nedim Türfent: As you, you can imagine that it was really difficult after prison, to start again. working. When I was in prison, I said myself, nadi, please, after prison, make your time, take your time. maybe join a rehabilitation process.
and, because, almost seven years, it’s too, long. And there was the time of Corona and, This discussions or chats or everything among in society change after Corona. so you have to, make observation about society, about people, after seven years, and maybe after one year.
Please resume your journals journalism carrier. Take your time. But it’s only a imagination because after two months, outside because of economical, difficulties, I did, I, I stopped, time of unemploy unemployment and, I applied to an, websites that’s focusing on human rights violations in Turkey.
I worked for them. just three months after prison, I started my journalism career again. I was in Istanbul, and I was, I worked for nine months. And in, in that process, I wrote, generally about human right violations, and I exposed, lots of, Incidents of torture, Turkish police or soldier, tortured, Kurdish civilians in Kurdistan, in Kurdish cities.
And, with the, help of lawyers of they reach me, I wrote about them and, Turkish police, disturbed, me again. They followed me and twice they, went to my house in village. They, disturbed my family and they, they asked questions about me and my story and, I understood that.
They will for the prison. And, I was, I was thinking about, applying to international journalistic organizations. then when I was thinking one Optum invited me, as a guest writer, to Germany.
[00:30:55] Zachary Suri: where do you find the motivation to keep. To keep working at this, you are harassed by the authorities constantly and they come to your family’s house, as you mentioned. Where do you find that? What, what keeps you going? What keeps you motivated to, to, writing and, publishing and speaking to people around the world?
[00:31:13] Nedim Türfent: I don’t know, whether you ever went to, middle East or not, but. In Middle East, may, maybe not only in Middle East, but also in, maybe in other countries. I will tell about an anecdote. just before prison, Turkish army bombed a village at the border of Iran. And, I heard about the incident and I went to that village.
There was a, an old woman, and she was crying. besides her, home, one of her homes was, devastated because of, the bombing. And she cried at me. Where are you journalists? Nobody is here. Nobody’s aware of us. We are, we are, exposed to a huge, cruelty and journalists are not anywhere here, and we need you.
And then I. I recorded this, I recorded this and write about her story, in, my, agency. and after I finished my, my finished work with him and I, observed that, maybe when you write about human right way relations, nothing changed. For example, you are writing about, the violations of, Human rights violations towards Kurdish people in Turkey, but Turkish government disregard it, do nothing. And the Turkish government going on, violating human rights. This is the case. This is the truth. But the people that live living, at the borderline in the village, they think that one journalist.
Write about such incidents, their life will change and everything will be better for them. They believe in journalists, they believe in poets, they believe in writers. And when you see that these ordinary people in living in willies at the borderlines in the forest, believe in you, you cannot lose your hope.
this is one of the best motivation that I was, that I, received, through all
my journalistic career.
[00:33:34] Jeremi Suri: That’s very inspiring. and, I want to, encourage, all of us to remember that, we’re giving voice to the voiceless sometimes even if, the authorities, even if the police forces don’t always respond immediately.
We are, documenting and are recording and we are. As you, have, so well, Nedim, I’m gonna ask another question, but I want to encourage our audience to put questions in, in the chat. Just write a and we will read your question to nad He is, very, interested in, interacting with all of you and getting his story out, obvious.
adeem, I wanted to ask, What is the, danger you face now? I think it’s important for our listeners to know that, without really revealing, too much, jeopardize your security for them to understand that your future is uncertain. What, is the danger you face right now? I understand you might be sent back to Turkey and possibly back to prison.
Can you explain our listeners please?
[00:34:43] Nedim Türfent: as not only in USA but also in, European countries, lots of governments started to, cut, the fund raising the money of the cultural organizations that, for example, help, journalists or refuge or, writers, all across the world. especially for those in, for example, Ukraine, Belarus, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan. That’s, and because of this, cuts, I am also, me and my fiance, we live together here. she was also, with me when I, have to, came to Li Leipzig in Germany. We are together, and she stayed also, Five years, in prison because of her, German sick work, from 2016 until 2021.
And here, we, were the guest of an, international organization, for about, half and one year. And then, the. The local governments of he state, decided to cut the money, the fundraising of the GNI world, the, organization that giving us a scholarship. And then all of a sudden, we found our ourselves, in a shocking way because, our weather, would expire in the end of May.
and if we, couldn’t find any alternative, scholarship or residence program or any way to extend, our weather and also scholarship, then we will be deported. there is a, real, a risk. And then I came to Germany. Germany, I joined lots of, co-op conference and events in England, in lots of German cities.
I. made speech and lectures about human right regulations, about, for example, finally, there was a human rights, international human rights conference in B and, I talked about, the human right regulations in, Syria, in, the Turkish, army. Kish family, in February. And, the, family has 11 members, mother, father, and nine kids.
Eight kids, father and mother were all killed. Only one, kid that she’s nine years old, she survived. And I, wrote about this, story and incident. I also thought about this, and after that the Turkish, court, launched an investigation towards my, report that I, shared in, x in tweet Twitter.
And they, brought, and access ban to my report. I’m trying to say they’re following me. They’re following my articles, they’re following my speeds. if I, couldn’t find anything and I go back to, Turkey, I don’t know what will happen. I don’t know real, I, don’t know what, what will happen.
They, put me in prison or, but it’s, I, cannot imagine, what will happen and. I’m trying to, find an a way, to stay here. I wrote, to the minister, and they accepted to, extend, our visa and scholarship until the end of August. now we have four months, in front, I will, we will try to find an.
to stay.
[00:38:43] Jeremi Suri: Wow. It’s a terrible situation. and I think we forget when we debate issues about immigration and these kinds of issues, we forget that the people like you, who, often are their lives are in jeopardy if we don’t allow you access to countries, where be safe. And, it’s really, a terrible situation.
We have some requests, Naim, from our list you to read another, you read another one of your poems for us. Okay.
[00:39:16] Nedim Türfent: which one do you prefer? There is a or it’s my choice. It’s your choice. What does it look like to live? Living is a mother can on the dimple of soil is resting your head in your lower S lap is the mark of her knee on your pace.
You are already absent. It is looking at the child’s eye closely at last moment, tweaking the cheek of a baby as their silk living sometime look like this. What does it look? Meanwhile, my heart was closed due to. The eye of the country are wet with tears like a spring. This is burning for our pigs and roses more.
While there are Syrians on the edge of our ears openly, this is getting our identity from being beaten and beaten. Pepper spray anti cannon wipe sometimes means mimic with TAs. Tight twist. Cloth in a lampkin looking like vet is slaving drop by drop under your armpits or rings and rings is yelling at the residual of silence.
A handful of dozens where the artiness is cheek by Joel. Too much in the blink of an eye. Leaving is returning to the salt of the earth. In fact, to a degree, living is the act of courage. What does it look like to live? It’s being able to love by living the leap in your eye. It’s knowing how to love joyfully.
It’s being able to love as if acting out Worship. Living is knowing how to love to death. It’s being able to breathe by putting a comma between each breath. Living is knowing how to breathe head over his. It’s being able to think by holding your head in your hands. Living is know how to think by fits and starts.
It’s being able to fight head up against tyrant Living is knowing how to fight with and will Living is an act of resisting kind of what does it look right to live?
[00:41:35] Jeremi Suri: I love the line. Living active resistance. Zachary, you, are usually our podcast poet. This week, Nedim has taken your role.
what, do you think of his poetry of this poem in particular, Zachary?
[00:41:50] Zachary Suri: I’m, struck by, the sort of power of the repetition. What does it look like to live? a sort of question to also to oneself. yeah, it’s, very powerful sort of simplicity of the images and, and, the sort of, question again, haunting.
Haunting,
[00:42:10] Jeremi Suri: yeah. Nedim, when, you turn to poetry in prison, how it, helped you to live? One of our themes is that the arts help us to keep our humanity alive in a democracy. How did the poetry, writing poetry help you to live in these terrible conditions?
[00:42:28] Nedim Türfent: and on under the absolute isolation, for a time.
I had no, contact to, books. I had paper and pen with me and some other stuff, of, daily life. and the, this, the bigness of cell, it was, for example, I want to describe, the prison cell to you. at every 11th, your step, you have to turn. In the yard, but in the prison itself.
In the prison cell, in the prison room, you have the ability or you can walk only four, five steps. At every five step. You have to go back because that is vault, it’s too narrow. And in that process, I had nothing with me notebooks, no context to anybody. And, I was crazy. I was crazy about, tolerating the accumulating of words inside me.
And I said myself, you want to write, you want to write articles or writing reports about any, anything, but you are, you don’t have access to outside, so you should write part y. What, how can you write? And then poetry. Then the process of composing poetry began, and when, I composed poetry, I felt myself, powerful and stronger despite the process of, pessimism or the darkness of prison.
and some po some poems, for example, I worked on them for one day. But there is a poem that, where the soul and the,
I worked on this poem, I think it lasted for eight, eight months for me to, to, and, the poetry, for example, I am, I’m walking in the cell at every, in the yard or in the yard. Sometimes some, phrase or some words are coming. I’m writing this, sentence in my hand or in a paper, and then I’m going on my daily life.
And, at night I brought all the phrases together and worked on them. And in this way, I noticed that. Literature, poetry or stories. In fact, they are, they are things that make you, make you survive, in such conditions where when you are in a dark place where you are, prisoned, where you are, among law, among was or behind walls, words or this kind of, literature, I think they are, they belong to us. They’re coming from us. They’re, and we feel same, more or less, same. And we as human, there is an insist insect, basic insect on us that we want to live. We want to survive. For example, when an accident occur, in traffic. And, anybody, will responded.
he at, in his or her, her last brief. When he’s about to die, he will say, you please gimme a, a drop of water because this demand of, a drop of water is coming from the insect of I want to live, I want to go on living. And, for me, drop of water is poetry.
[00:46:37] Jeremi Suri: That is beautiful.
That is beautiful. What I wanna ask you this question as our last question, it’s always a question we ask in our podcast as well. we believe democracy is about human beings, things not just about institutions. It’s about all of us. What can we do? what can those who, encounter your work, those who are.
We’ll watch recording. What can they do to make a difference? what, do you want us to do, Nadine? What will help you?
[00:47:09] Nedim Türfent: I, don’t know. exactly. it’s your, choice. for example, as a personal, human being, it’s our choice to, take responsibility. it’s our choice to, Of solidarity among, peoples. but as a Kurdish journalist and poet who spent, almost seven years in prison just for her, just for his journalistic work, just for his taught and reports, I can say, please help all the. Writers, poet, journalists that are still in prison Tomorrow is, international Press Freedom Day.
and not only in Turkey, but also in lots of other countries like Russia, like China, Iran, and lots of other countries. S of Germans are still behind buyers and. Of course, journalists are outside prison, but they’re like in prison, and the government make such a big oppression towards them. they, they, have to go to, police headquarters every week to make their signs and they’re under house arrests.
Dozens of journalists, still are in danger. And, but maybe the first step would, should be to support, the journalists, the poets, the writers, that are in prison now. And I am, I witness this truth. I survived this truth, and I know that when even you send a letter or you make an appeal outside or you share and social media sharing with your any account, it’ll make a result.
It’ll make a result sooner or later. Later. But personally for me I’m trying to find, an, a way to extend my visa and, to, gain an, to take an, scholarship or residence program. And in Germany, for example, when I applied to some organizations, they said, me, you are already in a safe country, so we cannot help you go back.
The Turkey will help you. It’s all illogical. it’s really silly when I go back to Turkey, they will put in me in prison. Could you take me out Prison? Yeah. Never. And, there is a situation for lots of other, journalists or writers for this situation. The, we are in a foreign, yes, I am safe, but until one month, I wanna say I, I’m safe.
But one, one month later, what will happen? And Fi finally, say something about, the Kurdish journalists, if you let me. of course there’s a great oppression towards Kurdish journalists in Turkey and all the other journalists, but especially particularly towards Kurdish journalist.
in the last, 10 months, seven Kurdish journalists. How being killed by Turkish drunk strikes in South Kurdistan, Stan and in s Syria, in Stan, they are, I will say their name, just to make it clear that, and just to remember, them za will stand. Tara Uhdi Stan.
And finally, in February, this seven Kish journalists. How being killed by Turkish drunks, stripes, and, not only international media, but also lots of intern, barely take taken notice of these killings when the, the, per traitor, the killer is Turkish government or Turkish state, and when the victim are Turkish journalist.
lots of people internationally, trying to become silent and put their hands like ostrich into the sand and think nothing. And if killing journals is a crime, it is a crime. Of course, it is crime as much as in Ukraine, in Palestine, in Mexico, or any other country. So killing journals in Stan is not a crime, but in other it’s crime.
It’s. we have to be censored about our principles, and I’m calling all, the people that please hear their voice. Hear the voice of Kurdish journalists, and please defend them. Hear their voice. Raise your hand because journalism is not a crime.
[00:52:04] Jeremi Suri: very powerful message, and I think a message that’s undeniable that, these are human beings and they’re doing what is essential for any society, which is right at what and, that we all should pay attention.
And at the very least. Give voice to their, experience and their suffering. Zachary, do, you think, this is a story, this is a, an element of our world that we can learn to pay more attention to? It seems we don’t pay a lot of attention, particularly to what’s happening in Turkey and to Kurds these days.
We don’t pay a lot of attention in the United States. do you think, Zachary, that this is a topic that can gain more attention and do you think it would be useful if we paid more attention to it?
[00:52:49] Zachary Suri: Yes, I think so. I, think the power of these in parallel, because, when you hear someone personal experience, it’s hard to deny the reality, and the pain that’s there.
it’s easy to ignore something like, the crisis over the lack of a Kurdish nation state. But in, in the abstract. But when you hear someone speak personally about what that has meant in their life and the sort of impression that it engenders, it’s much harder to ignore. and in that sense, I think these individual stories are some of the most powerful tools we have for, learning about and sharing the stories, of people around the world.
[00:53:29] Jeremi Suri: As Zachary, are there particular lessons.
[00:53:33] Zachary Suri: courage I think is just the main one, is that like you never know when your journalism is going to really matter for someone. and you have to be willing to stand up and fight always.
[00:53:45] Jeremi Suri: And there’s a power in telling a truthful human story.
In spite of all the lies power in telling a true story. Your, poetry captures not only your experience, but the universality to captures the experience of so many people in so many societies suffering for simply trying to tell the truth and simply trying to explain what is happening, in their communities.
I don’t deem your poetry politically, I think. It’s telling a human story. I am so grateful and I know our listeners and watchers are very grateful to, for use, to courageously tell your story and to keep telling your story, to educate all of us, and to encourage all of us, as you said, I wrote it down here, It is absolutely important that we give voice to these individuals, so many around the world, yourself included, who are being sh who are being. To give voice air. I wanna remind all of our listeners that what’s come through this in this conversation is how important support for international organizations that defend press free help journalists, how important these organizations are, how important that we pay attention, and how important it’s that we demand that our countries, including the United States, do what we can as a society, as a powerful society to help people like, you.
It’s not about political position. It’s about helping basic human beings pursue their basic rights re expression and telling the truth of their lives. Naima, I want to give you the last word, and then we will close. Okay.
[00:55:23] Nedim Türfent: Thank you so much, first of all, as a last sentence, I’m really grateful to you, to giving me this opportunity and please take this, re this story not personal story.
I think this story is, the story of all the Kurdish journalists and also the story of lots of other poets, others, journalists across the world. More or less, they are the same. They are suffering the same, cruelty of the enemy of the press, of enemy of the world. we will go on, writing, speaking for human rights.
personally for me, a journalist is at the same time a human rights defenders. I always, pouch my career as, I was a human right. Defenders. Please, stay hand in hand and shoulder to shoulder with all journalists who are paying the price and who are risking their life across the world.
if we, if we stay together, I think we will succeed in and, sooner or later, our words, will be more peaceful and of course more free.
[00:56:42] Jeremi Suri: Thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for giving us hope, for giving us such a clear description of the, horrors, the nightmares of our world, but also providing us hope.
And of course, the theme of our podcast and our substack, that democracy is about human beings. It’s about all of us speaking up, as you say, standing shoulder to shoulder. For what we believe in, this, conversation, which I think has been so powerful and so educational and enlightening. This will be available on our substack as a recording.
It’ll also be on our podcast. Encourage everyone to share it with others. Not everyone could join us live. Of course. everyone has work, but please share this with other people. we need to get this story out. I wanna close on what Nadiem himself said. Please tell their story. Please pay. This is a way we can all make a difference, as he said, just by.
Attention. We’re helping those courageous people like Nedim who are in prison or are displaced in different countries. We’re helping them to know that their lives matter and we’re helping to make democracy more resilient in places where it’s attacked, which almost everywhere now. Thank you so much Zachary.
Thank you for part this conversation. Nedim, I want to thank Maddie Schrman, who does all the technical work, David Judson and various. Possible. And, we hope to continue the conversation. Nedim we hope to see you again soon. Thank you very much.
[00:58:02] Zachary Suri: Thank you.