This is Democracy – Episode 53: Back to School

Unknown Speaker 0:05
This is Democracy, a podcast that explores the interracial intergenerational and intersection of unheard voices living in the world’s most influential democracy.

Jeremi Suri 0:26
Welcome to our new episode of This is Democracy. Today, we are going to mark the beginning of the school year. In many parts of our country, students have either returned to school in the last week or they are in the process of returning to school here in Austin. Our public schools begin this week. And we have with us to talk about the beginnings of the school year. We have with us two students here in the Austin Independent School District. They are familiar to our audience and familiar to me if course, we have Natalie Surrey. Hello. Hello, Natalie. Natalie is in high school. Yes, yes. You’re going into your junior year, correct? Yes. And we have. It is very exciting. It’s very exciting. And we have Zachary Siri with us as well. Hello, Zachary. Hello. And you are starting high school? Right? Yeah. Excellent. 10th grade ninth grade, right. Yeah, it’s great. And that’s right. That’s right. And in order to start us off and our discussion Zachary has written a poem about going back to school, and we hope it’s a positive optimistic poem. Yes. Okay. Let’s hear your poem.

Zachary Suri 1:36
Ode to My school. This is an ode to my school, a soliloquy just slowness the piece of a school set under the sunlit rafters of teenage lane siesta, and this is a river to collect the tears of all her homesick fledglings beginning to fly. This is an ode to my school, an ode to all my rainy morning stepping on the puddles of never Neverland. This is an ode all the constitutional legalities screaming down the concrete steps of the construction yards of the mind. This, my friends, is an ode to all the times I ran my hand across the old railings of the building that tricked so many sleepless scholar. This is an ode to all the scratched records I have spun under the stucco of aging ceilings. And this is an ode to all the soothsayers to acquire luminary visionary, revolutionary daily readers at the end trails of your soul, who looked to us each day to find which way the wind blows it somehow and oh does not suffice to capture the life between the sacred rituals, and the Latin conjugated verb yo contraptions, and oh does not suffice to tell of all this, for there is something about this place that cannot be expressed in words, I can only say that it is the feeling of sinking into an old couch that you have known for many years.

Jeremi Suri 2:52
That’s a very affectionate poem for school. What what’s your message?

Zachary Suri 2:56
Well, my poem is really about how much school and the environment that it creates is a part of our lives and how it becomes a second home and a sort of respite for us. But at the same time, it’s a very stressful and engaging institution. And what’s your message for kids maybe like yourself today who are a little afraid to be entering high school or entering a new school? Well, I think, too, that every year sort of brings new opportunities, and, and, and new experiences and to be able to do that with a community that a community that’s like there specifically for that purpose is a really special experience.

Jeremi Suri 3:38
Natalie, do you agree? Is that your message for kids starting a new schools today? That it’s it’s it’s a comfortable home? home like environment?

Natalie Suri 3:45
Yeah, definitely. Um, I think that that’s what supposed to be. And if it’s not, I feel like, yeah, I feel like especially at a public school, there’s so many different people. There’s so many different. You just have to put yourself out there. And yeah, I definitely. And I believe that school is supposed to be your home. For some kids. It’s the only consistent part of their lives. So if it’s important that, yeah, so if it’s like not working out, it’s important that it’s fixed. That’s right, that

Jeremi Suri 4:11
was very big. No, I think that makes sense. And one thing, Natalie, that that’s often an issue at schools is how political issues get handled by we live in a very political time. I know that for you and your friends, many of the issues that they’re seeing on TV and hearing about and over social media are important to them. How does your school deal with political issues to teachers, and students have an opportunity to discuss them? And how do they discuss them?

Natalie Suri 4:41
Well, teachers, I’m pretty sure it’s a rule, but like, they don’t really talk to the class about their political views. But you can usually tell, you can just usually tell but, um, well, me and my friends, it depends on like, how close you are and stuff but me, but some of my friends, we talked about a lot about the political issues revolving around like sexual orientations. And we also talk a lot about, like, sometimes we just talk about how much we don’t like Trump, but like, we don’t really talk about specific issues, because that’s not really our main, like interest. And, yeah, I guess that’s a problem to a certain extent, because we’re not as politically involved. But it’s also but like, also, if there’s like something really important, for example, like everyone, my close friends care about gun violence. So if there’s like, someone asked us to like sign a petition, about gun violence, then we would all do it. But we’re not like, super super, like, we don’t know, like everything going on. Like I don’t really know, like, even I don’t really know, most of the various details. Some

Jeremi Suri 5:43
people are concerned that young women and men like yourself, are not as politically engaged, that you’ve turned off to politics. Do you agree with that? Or do you disagree with that?

Natalie Suri 5:53
Well, we’re not when something’s really important to us, we’ll do something about it. But we don’t like follow like, we don’t know, like each like, bill that’s being passed. But I think that’s okay. Because I don’t think I think that when you’re young, you’re supposed to, you’re supposed to it’s not supposed to be your main focus.

Jeremi Suri 6:11
Exactly. What do you think?

Zachary Suri 6:12
Well, I think that’s really, that’s really what the challenge of of, of media and of of politicians today is to make those issues important to young people. I don’t think it’s necessarily young people’s role to make politics interesting for themselves. I think we need to we need to make politics practical and pragmatic, the fact that it actually influences people’s lives. And I think in many ways, Natalie’s point that young people don’t necessarily need to be deeply involved in the established politics of the day is actually one that is very heartening, because it makes it shows us how young people are, are innocent, and their trying to learn more about politics so that they can change, right. And

Jeremi Suri 7:04
school can be a place where they learn and form their own opinions, not necessarily just the exams of their parents, one area and that’ll you refer to this already, we’re certainly I’ve observed a great deal of change in the discussions around sexual orientation. It does seem that young people, people in high school and other grades are more comfortable talking about those issues and more comfortable with, with other young people who have made a variety of different kinds of choices. Is that true? Is that an important issue? For your generation? Yeah,

Natalie Suri 7:33
definitely. Um, I’m really something really new to my, our generation is that there’s not like this gender spectrum, there’s a sexuality spectrum. It’s not as black and white. So there’s people who are saying that they’re bisexual, or that they’re more gay than straight, but they’re also both. There’s, there’s lots of different things people can be. And it does. And like, there’s a lot of people who like, transgender, that’s a lot accepted, for example, for like, for, for my theater assignment, or not assignment for like, for signing up for like a theater convention, we had to like, talk about if we were okay, staying with a transgender person. So that’s definitely a new thing.

Jeremi Suri 8:13
And that’s good.

Natalie Suri 8:14
Yeah, I think that’s good. I think people should be be allowed to express themselves and be whoever they want. I can become a little like, awkward sometimes, if you’re not, if you don’t feel the same way, and you’re in a conversation, or people are telling you, you’re something because you act a certain way that you’re not. But that’s also just me. That’s not really but our people have different sexual orientation and gender orientation. Are they accepted? into into school life? Yes, very much so. And the groups I hang out with, I think I do theater at my school. And I think that’s an area where there’s where there’s especially, it’s especially really accepted.

Jeremi Suri 8:53
What about an athletics because you’re also in basketball?

Unknown Speaker 8:56
basketball.

Natalie Suri 8:59
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s like two different worlds. But I have never had experienced a problem with like, or heard about a problem where someone was discriminated against because of that.

Jeremi Suri 9:09
What would you say to some observers, and sometimes some parents who say, this is not a good thing, that this is a distraction, and that young people shouldn’t be talking about these things? Obviously, you don’t agree with that? What would you say? I

Natalie Suri 9:22
think it’s, it’s, that’s it’s not their place to decide that because they’re on the outskirts. And that’s just kind of a conceited thing to say, like, if your kid was like, struggling with their identity, like, I don’t see what the problem would be with experimenting, it’s not super harmful. Like, there’s ways you can do it in a non way that actually changes your body.

Jeremi Suri 9:42
And so you see this, you see this as a real opportunity for freedom in school? Yeah. How does this connect to the curriculum? And what you learn in school? Is your curriculum open to creativity in different identities? Or is it not?

Natalie Suri 9:57
It’s open to creativity in the same that we and especially in the humanities, we do a lot of projects, like there’s a lot of opportunities for projects and essays. Often, sometimes, you’re allowed to really just express yourself and like your own writing side, oh, that’s not like super, like rigid to a rubric. And but the parts, I get really frustrated, because multiple, multiple choice tests are very rigid and kind of unfair way to test whether or not you know, something, because a lot of times I experienced and I know, I’ve talked to my friends who they feel the same way that you know it, but you just, you know, the information like decently you just the questions, just go over your head, and you can’t really show the teachers that you know it, but I also understand that there’s so many students, it’s not really a way around it. But do you think there’s too much testing,

Jeremi Suri 10:45
particularly in Texas? Yeah, exactly. What do you think?

Zachary Suri 10:48
Well, I definitely think that there’s way too much emphasis on a standardized tests. And I do think that often, a curriculum is taught as if everything is factual, as in a way that prevents students from being able to form their own opinions, which I think is a skill that, in some ways our society is lacking. And I think it’s something that we should make sure that our younger generations are learn for the future, because I think it’s something that’s going to be really important in politics, when it comes to democratic change, and interest in life in general.

Jeremi Suri 11:22
Right. Right. And And on that note on the the formation of opinions, and the understanding and interpreting of the word of the world around us, how do you find the curriculum and other school activities, addressing issues of racism? Natalie, this a very racism, sexism? These are issues that obviously come up a lot in our society today? They’re old issues, but their issues? Of course, they’re still with us? How do these issues come up? for you at school?

Natalie Suri 11:48
Well, I’ve never encountered like a racist student, or like, no one’s been like, explicitly racist. But I do feel like I’m in two different worlds, because I’m, as an like, AP classes are, mainly I’m like, majority white, like what you would expect more of like higher social class, whereas regular classes are the opposite. Like, I’m mainly like, Hispanic or African American and lower social classes. So I don’t

Jeremi Suri 12:17
even want people with lower family incomes. I’m sorry.

Natalie Suri 12:20
Yeah. That was really good way. family incomes. And I feel like, I feel like there could be more done to encourage the people because I’m sure I’ve met a lot of people in the regular class who are actually very smart just afraid to try the higher level class. What Why

Jeremi Suri 12:36
do you think that is? What Why is there this bifurcation? I think it’s true in many schools around our country today, bifurcation between schools and also within schools, between certain groups that are in certain kinds of classes and certain groups or other kinds of classes?

Natalie Suri 12:50
Um, I honestly don’t know, it’s, it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot. And I just can’t find an answer that makes sense. Exactly. What do you think?

Zachary Suri 12:57
Well, I think there is, I think that I haven’t had the same experience that Natalie’s talking about about a sort of bifurcation. But I do think there’s, there’s not enough. There’s not enough resources, putting this in the public school system, to, to encourage gifted and talented programs that people who are who have a higher who are ahead of their peers when it comes to, to to learning. There’s there’s not enough resources put into encouraging those kids and getting them entire classes. And part of the problem is that the public school system has to handle kids who have special needs when it comes to education, and kids who are ahead of the curve. And so it’s really hard for our overburdened public schools to find ways to solve this problem. People with who feel like they learn like a different way, or have a slight like, learning, like kind of difference, um, they feel it’s not really it’s like also like, it’s a feeling of feeling like an outcast in the AP class. So even though you can do it, a person could do it, they would just need more time and possibly, like more tutoring and more help, and would have to work a little harder than some other people, they still they still feel like they’d be an outcast. And they, no one wants to be like the stupid kid. Right? That’s not right. No one wants to be ostracized.

Jeremi Suri 14:21
But

Zachary Suri 14:22
I don’t think that has anything to do with like, races. I guess that’s just also how you’re brought up. I don’t know. What I think to that. The kids are very unaware of issues of, at least in my middle school, which was a private little school of, of the of the issues of de facto segregation in our society, and the ways in which our city, Austin, which is one of the most segregated cities in the country, the ways in which economics and race play a major role in how you get educated and what careers you go you take and what colleges you go to, I think we really need to discuss that a lot more, because it’s something that affects our society in our generation deep.

Jeremi Suri 15:01
And and with it being clear that this is a major issue in all schools. What would you do about it, Natalie? If you could, if you could address this issue? How would you try to deal with the divisions along racial and economic lines that that are in your school and so many others?

Natalie Suri 15:21
Well, I don’t know. I that’s kind of that’s a really hard question. But one of the things that I know I would do is I would like create more I would in can make learning see more cool, more fun and more cool. And I would teach about, I would share my experiences and various things about how I you’re smart, just you learn differently. And sometimes that doesn’t like my experience with like, how like, there’s like a very enclosed box for like learning problems, then there’s, oftentimes you don’t fit inside the box and like, different things you can do and how you’re just as smart, and just different ways of learning and how cool it can be when you learn stuff. And then I would also create, like, like, have like more free tutoring, maybe, like, I know, there’s a lot of tutoring hours, but encourage it more

Jeremi Suri 16:08
right to get so people would would be able to seek out help without feeling they’re dumb for asking for. And

Natalie Suri 16:13
also, I would share with them that no one make. Everyone thinks that other people are paying more attention to them, then they actually are so that they should try it like I would encourage them to try the higher level classes, but I also wouldn’t demean them for

Jeremi Suri 16:24
sticking with the low. Right, exactly.

Zachary Suri 16:26
Well, I think I mean, I feel like sometimes, in many ways the solutions are out there, we just need to invest our time, our energy and our money in it. Because I think the solutions to ending segregation have been there the whole time, we just need to actually recognize that it’s a problem in our society. And that segregation didn’t just end with the 1968 Voting Rights Act, that is 6565 Voting Rights Act, that it’s something that’s been going on, continuously for for centuries. And at the same time, I definitely think that without he said, is really powerful. I think we need to emphasize that every student is different that every student learns in a different way. And we need to put more resources into teachers who recognize that and to hiring, and to encouraging young people to go into teaching and public service.

Jeremi Suri 17:18
Well, and this takes us to another topic, I wanted to make sure we discussed because I think you have both of you and other young people have insights that often are and listen to the role of technology. Many parents, many administrators are worried about social media about cyberbullying and things of that sort, also about the proliferation of non fact based sites. But on the other hand, technology also offers opportunities, right? The opportunity to be able to do research, in a way you couldn’t before. videos, Khan Academy, things of that sort. So what are your thoughts? If you were asked, as I’m asking you now? How could schools more effectively use technology to help young people learn and to combat the misuse of technology? What would you say now?

Natalie Suri 18:04
So um, I would say that it’s actually I don’t think it’s really the school’s place to monitor social media and my students time on computers, because it’s up to them how much effort they want to put into their education, especially in high school. But I think that, yeah, I really think that the school actually does a good job of encouraging tutoring states. And we do a lot of like concerning paper, because we do a lot of online tests. But yeah, it’s also slightly easier to cheat on the computer. But they also I also think they have a good solution to that, because they use go guardian. But I know your question was about what they could do better. And, um, I don’t, I don’t really know, I honestly, I honestly, personally prefer, like written stuff.

Jeremi Suri 18:45
So she would want that option. Yeah, things in writing. Exactly. What do you think?

Zachary Suri 18:49
Well, I think that, that technology offers a real opportunity, because like, what now is talking about people having different learning styles. Technology, allows teachers to help students in many different ways for many different learning styles, because there’s so many different resources out there to help you. Like, personally, I’m someone who’s an auditory learner. And so I can go online and find find, like, radio programs or things that help explain a topic to me, Well, someone who’s a visual learner can go on YouTube and find a video. I think that’s really helpful. But at the same time, there is a lot of misuse of technology. And even in like a school environment, there’s, there’s people who are very, who are very academic and very smart can still often fall into the trap of of getting overly involved in technology. And I think it’s something that we just need to teach kids how to be better cyber citizens, and how to be better people on the internet, who are responsible for their own information and for others. Yeah, I definitely agree. There’s definitely a huge distraction. With this TechCrunch that almost balances out the good It does. Some

Jeremi Suri 20:03
kids, you have conversations at school about what the best ways are to use technology and what the best etiquette is and communicating with people.

Natalie Suri 20:11
Not Honestly, I mean, not really, you know, but I don’t know,

Jeremi Suri 20:16
that’d be a bad thing. Well, that would be useful.

Natalie Suri 20:20
Yeah, maybe, but I don’t know how much there is to it. You should like if you’re so distracted by it, you should just delete the app. Right? You should like I don’t know how much they would actually. Right.

Jeremi Suri 20:30
So what I wanted to close on today, because it’s great to have the voices of students rather than just the voices of administrators and teachers. What what are the best things that our schools are doing today? Why Why is why is school such an important part of our world? We hear so many criticisms from all directions. What are the good things? What are the things that make our schools work? What are the things you appreciate about school that we should all be appreciating as as we send our kids and we ourselves go off to school for the new school year, and Natalie,

Natalie Suri 21:00
I love the community and just the opportunity to really like to, like reinvent yourself, because there’s so many people. So like in different classes, you can almost reinvent yourself, the community, the people you meet, just, it’s just a good time in your life. Like you’re figuring everything out. And there’s so many people there to support you. In your high school, like, you meet so many mentors, and so many good people. And it really is a home away from home. Because of all the like, it’s like each day at lunch, you catch up with your friends. It’s like, yeah, it’s just it.

Jeremi Suri 21:32
And the vast majority of teachers really care, don’t they?

Natalie Suri 21:36
Yeah, there’s at least for every bad teacher, there’s at least one teacher who, for every terrible teacher, there’s at least one teacher who really really cares. So

Jeremi Suri 21:44
that’s probably as good as really show is we’re gonna get

Zachary Suri 21:46
Zachary, what are your thoughts? I really think that that what makes school so special are the teachers and the students. And I feel like you can have a school that has that, that that does not that does nothing but that Well, I think you can still have an amazing environment. I think that meeting so many other young people that are like yourself and finding experiences to grow by meeting new people, and, and meeting new teachers, I think it’s something that’s a really important opportunity. And the how much many of our teachers care and, and how much they sacrifice for our education. There’s something that really makes you work hard. Yes. So, so happy. Oh, sorry, to make good use of your time. Yeah. And it’s like when you have a really good teacher that really changes you. It just it’s like so like, it’s so great. And it’s just, it’s really cool. Yeah, amazing. Amazing.

Jeremi Suri 22:40
Well, I thank you both, Natalie and Zachary, for sharing your thoughts. I think too often when we talk about school, we don’t actually hear the voices of the students in the school. Other students? Absolutely, we should have more students. I know what you remind us in your comments today is how vibrant democracy needs vibrant schools and the schools are made vibrant by the kids and the teachers in the buildings. And that’s why the beginning of the school year is such an optimistic time, because as Natalie said, so well, it’s a time for new friends, new connections. And as Zachary said, it’s time to learn and reconnect with different people. And so we’re really lucky to be able to have the beginning of the school year and to talk about it here. Thank you for joining us on this episode of This is Democracy.

Unknown Speaker 23:36
This podcast is produced by the liberal arts development studio and the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Texas at Austin. The music in this episode was written and recorded by Harrison Lemke and you can find his music at Harrison Lemke.

Unknown Speaker 23:49
com.

Unknown Speaker 23:50
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