This is Democracy – Episode 21: Political Prospects for 2019

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Jeremi: Welcome to our new episode of This is Democracy, and happy new year. This is our first episode of 2019. We have the great fortune today of opening with, I think, someone who’s one of the most important thinkers about what 2019 has in store for us, my friend Brian Jones. Welcome Brian.
Brian Jones: Thank you and great to be back.
Jeremi: It’s great to have you back on. Brian is an accomplished entrepreneur, he’s an expert on economic and technological matters, he’s a former swimming star at UT, and he is now in one of in what I think is one of the most important role in our country, he is the chair of Stand Up Republic, which is an organization, which is working to restore our democratic institutions and renew our democratic culture in our society. We’ll talk to Brian in a minute, but of course we start with one of Zachary Siri’s poems. Zachary, what’s your poem titled today?
Zachary: “Reflections on the New Year, 2019.”
Jeremi: That seems appropriate. All right well, let’s hear it.
Zachary: December’s whip and the January’s beat. New years go by in a matter of days, a matter of trust in the ticking of the clocks and the crossing offs of the calendars. And we sit in silent corners rocking chairs by swaying fires pretending to read, but to but just staring. Staring at the television screen, and in fact binge watching Netflix, turn off the news kind of 2018 we were counting bullet holes in the nation to fall asleep at night. And we tried, by God we tried. In trying to sleep I have counted backwards from 1,000, losing the numbers at 979 almost asleep, but then I can’t see the chimes in the back of my head made me turn around. And I’m almost sleeping and looking out the window, the night makes me afraid that I will never sleep, that I will stay here staring out the window at the street for all the hours of night.
Zachary: This weekend I heard on the radio a show from a year ago and the voice soothingly wished everyone a happy 2018, and I sighed. And then he said he hoped it would be better than the last, and I laughed. I laughed with my head buried into the television later that night and we watch to escape, to leave the coffin of 2018 that brought many personal triumphs, but it left us wondering. Wondering if we could even hope for, we wish for a happy new year. Slowly we come out of the shells, sit on the beach and watch the sunrise, smile at the empty ocean. And back inside we can finally turn the news on again, we can breathe sleep through our exhausted souls, and we can wake up in the morning with a different step on the cold floor of our bedrooms.
Jeremi: Very thoughtful, Zachary. What is your message about the new year?
Zachary: Well, what this poem speaks to, I think, is how the new year is a time of renewal, but also a reflection on the past year and all the emotions that came with it, and how just utterly exhausted and tired we are.
Jeremi: And why is that? Why are exhausted souls, as you say?
Zachary: Well just after such a long and tumultuous year to have it over and to be able to rest and reflect on it, it just makes one think about how tired we all are.
Jeremi: Well, maybe we’ll turn to Brian on that. Why does it feel like we’re so exhausted, Brian?
Brian Jones: I think one of the things that’s happened in the political system right now is that we’ve really fallen into this trap of things becoming hyper-partisan tribal, and so no longer does it feel like we’re getting the small wins that we’re used to getting where there is some type of collaboration on moving things forward, and instead it feels like we’re constantly at conflict whether that’s internally within our nation, whether that’s internally on economic matters, whether that’s externally on more military type conflicts, there just seems to be a lot of tribalism happening right now.
Brian Jones: I think to Zachary’s point, a lot of that starts to weigh on you as you feel that friction on a regular basis. You’re continuing to see that a little bit in 2019. I think that anybody that thought that things were going to magically get better in ’19 is going to be in for a long year. The blue wave, the election in ’18 showed that there is some movement within the nation to, maybe, go in a different direction, but we still have the same president and group of advisors, we still have majority Republicans in the Senate, and now with the house being led by Democrats you’re starting to see more of that friction where what was a unanimous vote to open up the budget by the Senate now that exact same bill passed by the House won’t even see the floor. That type of hyper-partisanship is continuing to really stick in the craw of our nation.
Jeremi: It seems as if, in a certain way, that partisanship has deepened with not only the election of Democrats, but also with evidence that the country is moving forward in other directions. It’s almost as if there are forces trying to hold us back. Do you feel that way?
Brian Jones: I think that there is a decent chunk of the population that is afraid of change, and I think that’s always been the case regardless of where you look in history. We definitely have some trends that are changing pretty quickly whether that’s economic, whether that’s social, whether that’s demographics, and so you see a lot of people that are really digging in their heels because they’re afraid of what things may look like. If you’re a coal miner … I read something I thought was really interesting about, this past week about some of the lyrics by Bruce Springsteen in the 1980s. You read the lyrics and they’re so apropos to today, and it’s the mill’s closing, and for the town’s whitewashed, and their downtown is closing, and those jobs are gone, they’re never coming back.
Brian Jones: That’s where we’re at again now, and it’s energy, it’s the blue-collar jobs that are changing, and they’re changing in location, they’re changing in skill sets, they’re changing in education required, they’re changing in just direction where coal energy versus green energy is not the way of the future. If that’s all you’ve ever known, and that’s what you’re town’s dependent on it’s going to be scary.
Brian Jones: What we have to figure out as a nation, and our political elected officials have to figure out is not how do we embrace that fear, but how do we get in front of it, how do we give them the lifelines and opportunities, and show them the way up and out, so that they don’t feel that the only way to survive is to act like nothing is changing?
Jeremi: It does seem as if it’s a combination of fear and, as you said, almost tribalism and conflict that’s dominating our news every day. Do you believe something this as something that, and in your work at Stand Up Republic, do you see this as something that permeates all levels of our society, or is it something more evident at the national than at the local level?
Brian Jones: That’s a good question. I don’t know if I’ve seen anything on the local level that really gets into that when you start looking at city councils and the way that they’re interacting. I do think that you see it on a state level and I think that you’ve seen some really interesting places where that’s played out recently that will lead to some of the things that hopefully get fixed in the next couple years. In your old home state of Wisconsin you had that elected officials including the governor going and making some midnight heroics to change what was the will of the populace. In Michigan, you had a very similar situation, but the governor vetoed those changes.
Jeremi: These were efforts to change the power of the governor after the Republican party lost the governor’s seat.
Brian Jones: In Michigan to almost override referendum on the state ballot, and so you have these massive power plays that are very much tribalism in nature where people have spoken, and I think that’s the thing that I think gives me the most hope is I think, in just the polling that I’ve seen is that 70 to 80% of the population is probably more aligned than what the politicals thinks that they are. Everything from little things like universal background checks on gun control, I think, is 97% now by the US population approves that. That’s something where it’s like all right, but if you only read the national news and you only listen to what our officials on Capitol Hill said you would think that it was 30%, and that there is this huge rift. I think on a lot of these issues that people do in fact want to come together, and are more aligned than what you would read.
Jeremi: Which is why I asked that question. It does seem to me sometimes, Brian, and I think this shows up in the polling that people are more divided on the party and the leader, whether they like the president or don’t like the president, whether they like a governor or don’t like a governor, than they are on the issues when you drill down. Healthcare seems to be another one. There might be differences on universal healthcare, but a large proportion of the population actually likes the idea of the government providing and helping with healthcare.
Brian Jones: Absolutely. One of the things that’s been really interesting over the past couple years is when you pull issue out of those tribal mechanisms, and you have a discussion on the basis of that topic the outcomes are almost shocking. We mentioned it briefly the last time I was here, but Florida, where Florida can’t have an election if it doesn’t end up in almost a tie ever, and 60 plus percent voted to restore disenfranchised voting rights.
Brian Jones: In Missouri, you saw elections where they passed things that you would never expect. Expanding Medicaid, that you would never expect to be in a what’s considered to be a pretty red state, but when you pull it out and you say, “Okay well, listen, what’s really happening here?” Forget the R, forget the D, forget who the spokespeople and their personalities are, but let’s talk about this issue. Does it make sense to, whatever the issue is? I think people all of a sudden put that down that guard, that tribalism, and go, “Okay well, let me think,” because we’ve gotten to that point where that identity politics plays such a big part of things, and as a plank of a party this is what we’re against.
Brian Jones: Without being a well-informed, I’ve got a bunch of time to dive into this issue I’m going to rely on my proxy, my proxy is my party, my party says this, and what people don’t realize is that a lot of times those planks, and those people may not necessarily be looking at it as a way to pull everybody together, but may be looking at it as a way to make it divisive, and to make it easier to fund raise, and continue to be out there in front because it’s earned media.
Jeremi: The representative figure is not actually representing the policy interests of the public?
Brian Jones: Right.
Jeremi: Do you see that changing? It seems to me, Brian, there’s a lot of evidence that in spite of the challenges that we continue to face, that you’ve outlined so well, that we do have perhaps a new generation of leaders coming into power. Certainly, looking at the U.S. Congress, the House of Representatives today, looking at state government, looking at a state like Florida that, as you pointed out, will starting today, starting on January 9th be registering about a million felons potentially who couldn’t vote, who now will be able to vote, many of whom are minorities. Do you really see change happening at that level?
Brian Jones: Yeah. There’s a lot that is happening. If you look at, to your point, the class of elected officials that just joined Capitol Hill there’s a lot more diversity, there’s a younger group.
Jeremi: Two Muslim women, in particular the first two ever elected to the house.
Brian Jones: Yeah. In Texas, you had a couple of Hispanic women that were elected for the first time, and so there’s things that are definitely changing. Now, I think that you still have to be cognizant of the fact that just because there’s new faces doesn’t mean that things change. Again, I don’t see 2019 being a massive shift in the way that everything occurs, but I think it is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Brian Jones: On the state level, I think, that you’re starting to see some of that as well where back in November I think … between May and November I think there were five states that the cited to move away from partisan gerrymandering and go to non-partisan districting, and I think that’s a great thing to have 10% of the states decide and say, “Listen, we don’t want this to be hyper political anymore. We want to be something where we at least try to make it fair as much as politics can be fair.”
Brian Jones: Actually, I think one of the things that I thought was the most inspiring, for me, for 2019 is that the very first House resolution, HR1, has a ton of pieces in it that are great for democracy. Everything from strengthening the electoral, so guaranteed vote by mail, being able to have a federal holiday for elections, looking at gerrymandering, looking at campaign donations, trying to get rid of and address some of the dark money and packs and super packs and C4s, to also requiring ethics training, and things that you would think would be noncontroversial.
Brian Jones: I’m going to be really interested to see how that plays out because, for the most part, again taking off your political hyper partisan tribal hat, there are things that we should be able to agree upon where the most people where it the more people that felt that’s a good thing. The easier it is for people to get valid IDs the better that is, the ability for people not to have to miss work and get penalized, and wait 2 1/2 hours in line to vote that should be something that we all should be able to lock arms on and agree. How they frame this and how the conversation goes will be really interesting because I’m fascinated by somebody that comes out and will, honestly, on the floor say, “I want it to be harder for people to vote. I don’t like democracy, I like it the way it is. Let’s leave it.” That’s such an interesting opinion for somebody to take where I just want to see how that’s received.
Jeremi: It’s extraordinary in some ways despite all the partisanship, despite all the ugliness how many interesting ideas have been put on the table. They will be acted on immediately, but they’re on the table now. There’s also been a proposal for a constitutional amendment to eliminate the electoral college. Another proposal, in fact, coming from Republicans to create term limits in the Senate, so there are a lot of really interesting ideas that many of us have been talking about in the academic world that they’re now getting talked about in Congress and elsewhere, and that’s because of the new people who have come into office, right?
Brian Jones: Yeah. I think it’s partly because of the new people and partly because you can read the tea leaves and see what’s happening here. Rather than trying to continue the old ways there are now, even people that have been there for a while, saying, “Okay well, if times are a changin’ I better be rolling along with them and make those types of changes,” and I think that that’s what you’re seeing where people are looking at it.
Brian Jones: You and I have had conversations about statistics about what percentage of millennials believe that democracy is the best governance out there, and one of the things that has been very clear is that democracy, as it has been for the last 10 years, is a frustrating viewpoint, and if you’re only view of democracy has been the last 10 years you probably think it doesn’t work that great.
Jeremi: It doesn’t.
Brian Jones: Between the gridlock and the animosity, and the hyper partisanship, and so I think that a lot of people are sensing that frustration and saying, “Well, how do we clear the lanes to get things done?” I know the tendency is to idealistically look back on the past and, obviously, you read some of the debates, and you read the tension things weren’t always grim. This isn’t, by far, the worst it’s ever been, but I do think that there has been points in the past where you could come together and find common ground and say, “How do we address this and how do we get fresh ideas, fresh people and say, ‘Let’s find the 80% that we agree on and let’s get that done,’ and then we’ll focus on the remaining 20 at a later date.” As opposed to, “We’re not addressing any of it now because we don’t agree on that 20%.”
Jeremi: What’s interesting, we’ve talked about this on the show, is that the moments of hyper partisanship, the moments of hyper division are usually the ones that then produce the rapid moments of change as people do come together because they’re fed up, but also because they recognize the problems and the way that people can see a lot of the problems of gerrymandering and unrepresentative government that you’ve pointed to here.
Jeremi: For many of our listeners, Brian, who care about this, and want to make a difference let’s spend the last couple minutes now talking about that. What are the things that you as a scholar of these issues, as the chair of Stand Up Republic, as a political activist, and as someone who yourself really crosses between parties, Stand Up Republic was actually founded Evan McMullin who was a Republican, ran as part of an independent Republican, what are the things you see that young people in particular can do right now to be a part of this positive change?
Brian Jones: Stand Up Republic is, what we consider to be, a cross partisan organization. Our goal is to put forward ideas and, hopefully, policies that can be embraced by whichever party that is, whether you’re an R, a D, a Libertarian, a Green Party, these are common ideals and norms that we should be embracing. Part of that is strengthening the electoral process, making it easier for citizens to vote. Part of it is protecting the Constitution, some freedom of speech, and we’re seeing that plate out to today where we have a primetime speech happening this evening by our president, and watching the press figure out how to address that is a really interesting challenge.
Brian Jones: Our press need our support when you have tweets coming out that the press is the enemy of the people, which is propaganda typically used by authoritarian leaders. Somebody needs to step up and be able to say, “Hey listen, that’s not how we talk about the press here.” Looking at the independence of the judiciary and the Department of Justice and not allowing those to become partisan, and not allowing them to become part of a political weaponized machinery. Those are some of the things that we’re looking at with Stand Up Republic that I think are really important as we look for the next 2 to 20 years out.
Brian Jones: For individuals, I think the biggest thing is to get involved and to look at both state, local, and national issues, and realize that their voice does matter and not only during the elections. Of course, everybody for the last however many years is saying, “Your vote matters, get out there.” As we get to see more of these races become tighter as gerrymandering goes away you’re going to see more races where it really is important to show up and vote and, hopefully, people embrace that. It’s also democracy isn’t something that happens once every 2 to 4 years, on that day you get involved and then the rest of the time everything calms down. I think it’s really important that as issues pop up that there is a way to be activated, and that you become involved enough to know how to be activated.
Brian Jones: You talked about healthcare, I think one of the most interesting things over the past 12 months was the response around the Affordable Care Act, and how many people called, and emailed, and faxed, and wrote letters of support, and said, “Hey listen, this is happening here,” and all of a sudden, “I have cancer, I have diabetes, I have COPD, I have diseases that would’ve prevented me from getting insurance, or would have bankrupted me if I didn’t have insurance. And now, I can get insurance and I don’t have to worry about these economic disadvantages just because something unfortunate happened in my genetic code.”
Brian Jones: I think that that’s really important that people continue to see that, and get engaged because when the voice of the American people is heard, I think, you see action, or at least you see the beginnings of people saying, “Oh wow, people are talking, people are having opinions on this, and we should listen to them.” I think that’s the best thing about our democracy is that voice of the people usually resonates, and I think does resonate, and hopefully will continue to resonate.
Jeremi: I think it’s a great point. I think even in a time that feels exhausting and frustrating, as Zachary was referring to in his poem, it’s absolutely crucial that people get more involved not less involved and, as you said, make their voices heard not simply in condemning leaders that we don’t like, but actually talking about the issues, and educating people. In a sense, filling the space that’s not being filled by leaders who are telling lies, actually putting facts out there, putting real information whether it’s climate change, healthcare, the real treatment of our immigrants and things of that sort, really getting serious information out there.
Brian Jones: I think if there are two specific action items I would say is, one is don’t stay holed up in social media.
Jeremi: Put down your phone.
Brian Jones: And realize that even if you’re on it that not all of the information is true and factual.
Jeremi: Unless it’s our podcast.
Brian Jones: Unless it’s our podcast.
Brian Jones: There’s a lot of information out there about how disinformation is being spread, and people are looking at quick bites of information and thinking that’s the whole truth, and the only truth. We’re finding out that that’s not the case, and so I think that one thing is just don’t necessarily believe everything you read online. Two, get out of the anonymous ability to be online and to be a keyboard warrior, and go and have conversations and realize that even if somebody disagrees with you on a political issue that they’re not a bad person, that you may just disagree with them on that issue.
Brian Jones: Then, the second big piece of it is be proactive on what you’re for. There’s a lot of people that are, to your point, “I’m against this, I’m against that. That’s a really backwards looking negative view of the world, and if we’re going to continue to advance it’s what are you for, and being able to advocate positive change, and say, “This is how I view where we should go,” and coming up with solutions, and opportunities for these problems that we face and address. That’s a much more productive view of the world and I think flips the narrative where instead of it being a negative where everything bad is happening and I’m against everything that’s happening is, “Okay, here’s one or two issues that I really passionately care about. How do I get involved, and what do I want to see happen that are positive?” Again, that could be healthcare, it could be gun control, it could be debt, it could be immigration, but what would you like to see, and go make that change.
Jeremi: Zachary, does this resonate with you? Is it possible in spite of all the exhaustion and complication, is it possible among your friends and other young people to have a positive conversation about our politics, and to see positive ways forward?
Zachary: I think it really is possible, and I think it just requires leaving that partisan sphere on the part of both those who are involved, but also those who are in power. I think it also shows us how important it is to work on these issues today because I think part of the reason we’re in such a partisan time today because the seeds of this moment were planted 20 years ago, and that it shows us that it’s really important today to be active about protecting our democracy, and making sure that issues we care about are heard about.
Jeremi: Right. I think that’s a perfect spot for us to close today. I think Brian and Zachary have both highlighted the realistic challenges we face. As we’re recording this podcast part of the US government is down. Right now, people are dealing with a government that doesn’t seem to work at many levels, but at the same time there’s all this new energy, all these new individuals in our politics, and so many good ideas out there. If anything, 2019 is going to be a year when the opportunities for activism, and the opportunities to speak out for what we believe, and pursue what we care about, I think, should be greater than they’ve been in a long time. Out of difficulty comes great opportunity, and I think Brian and Zachary have given us a good hold on understanding that.
Jeremi: Thank you for joining us today Brian.
Brian Jones: Absolutely. Thank you for inviting me back.
Jeremi: Great to have you on. Zachary, thank you for your poem.
Jeremi: Please continue to listen to This is Democracy, we are your source on democratic activism and political thinking, not partisan thinking, but historical thinking that helps to renew our democracy. We will be with you every week this year. Thank you very much and see you soon.
Speaker 6: This podcast is produced by the Liberal Arts Development Studio and the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 7: The music in this episode was written and recorded by Harrison Lemke and you can find his music at harrisonlemke.com.
Speaker 8: Subscribe and stay tuned for a new episode every Thursday featuring new perspectives on democracy.