E36 | Coach Jeff “Maddog” Madden : The Man, The Myth, The Legend…

Welcome to the team behind the team podcast. I am your host Donnie Maib. This is the monthly show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to ethic, performance, strength, and conditioning, sports medicine, sports science, mental health, and wellness and sports nutrition.

Hello, and welcome back to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Donnie. And coach Joe Crok. The cohost is back in the house, coach Joe, what’s going on today? Oh, not much coach. I’m I’m extremely excited. This, this summer’s been insane with the, the guests we’ve had. So, I mean, innate, you just keep getting bigger.

I mean, the bios, I thought we had a big one last time and coach, you have a, you have a handful here to read. I mean, it’s just, uh, that’s right. It’s a mountain. And, and so this today’s guest is, is awesome. Well, you know, it wouldn’t be a Texas summer unless we heat up the studio with bringing a living legend into our podcast.

So we wanna welcome to the show. Coach Jeff mad dog, mad, mad dog. How you doing coach? Doing great coach. How about yourselves? We’re doing great. Thank you so much for just making time to come in. You obviously, uh, laid a huge foundation at UT and just glad to have you back on the 40 acres. So welcome. I’m blessed to be back and glad to see you in charge doing your thing in winning championships.

That’s that’s how it’s supposed to be. Well, you train me right coach. That’s right. You train me, right? I appreciate you. So, uh, we’re gonna just do a little for our listeners if you’ve never. Heard of Jeff mad dog Madden, you are in for a treat today and you, you need to go and do your research if you’ve been in this field, even for just a moment, but I’m gonna just hit some highlights here and read just some of the things he’s accomplished.

We’re approaching right at 40 years, that’s right. 40 years in this profession. So that’s a lot of longevity, a lot of success and a big influence and a lot of coaches’ lives. So, uh, so just to kick it off here, coach Madden’s resume, uh, more than checks. All the boxes required to achieve the title of living legend in our field.

Um, he was an all city Allstate all-star athlete back in his day when he played, uh, he went to train over 30,000 athletes over these 40 years, four decades, hundreds of who. Went on to become professional athletes and Olympians in a coaching career that has spanned again, nearly four decades, uh, football teams that he directly led and was responsible for training had a combined record of, I bet this is not correct coach, but 2 44 and 70 that’s from, uh, 89 to two 14.

So need to update that mm-hmm but it’s a lot of wins there. Two national championships, one at Colorado, one at Texas, who I was, uh, fortunate to be under his leadership with. We played for four national championships and we only won two that’s. It’s tough to win him, man. It’s tough to win. ’em uh, in 2000.

He was part of the inaugural class of the CS, C a master strength and conditioning coaches. And in 2008, he was inducted into the USA strength and conditioning hall of fame. Uh, the following year, he was named the 2004 national strength and condition coach of the year by the professional football strength and condition.

So coaches society, um, in 2005, he was named the collegiate strength and condition coach of the year, uh, in a long time CSCA sponsor Samson equipment. So that was a huge award. I remember that that’s huge. Uh, coach Madden has been certified expert, uh, for the national association of speed and explosion since 1985.

He’s a master certified with the international sports science association since 1991 and has been a member of the NSCA since 84. Since 89 coach Madden’s teams appeared in 24 consecutive bowl games and he coached teams that played in four national title games and NCAA division, one level winning. He won at Colorado won at Texas, as we mentioned, um, coach that’s a lot.

I’m gonna kind of pause there for a moment and just open it up to you and give you some time. We definitely want to hear from you. So coach again, welcome to the show. If it is truly an honor, could you just take a moment, look over your career for a second there in a, in a glimpse, in a, in a blink of an eye.

Um, what has it meant to you after all these years of success influence with countless athletes and coaches you’ve mentored to be inducted as a legend in the field. What has that meant to you? Coach? Well, Donny, as well as you know, in our profession, that’s pretty. High cotton there, you know, and I was blessed and fortunate to, you know, have guys and guys like yourself and girls like Sandy and, you know, some tremendous, tremendous people to learn the field of strength and conditioning, you know, and I remember a couple years back when I asked, uh, question, uh, who have I talked to, who have I helped, you know, when we were at our banquet that, uh, you know, 85% of the place stood up, you know?

So to me that was one of the reasons I wanted to help, uh, whether our CS CCCA, you know, and, uh, they gave me the award now. I mean, the, the ward is something that’s super strong. I was able to give it to dot crease who you and I both, uh, came through when he was, uh, back at Vanderbilt, you know, in the early eighties.

Yeah. Uh, you know, and then, you know, you got Chuck Diggins and some of the other guys that, uh, Knowing this a long time. So, you know, I think the legend thing tells you you’re getting a little older so, you know, as you say, you say four decades, you’re you’re right. It’s four decades, but. I don’t feel that I don’t think that I just keep going, you know, so I’m excited about it.

Uh, we had a really nice ceremony, uh, in Oklahoma city about it. It was beautiful. It was, it was beautiful. And it was great to stand there and see so many faces of people that I’ve helped, you know, from, you know, I remember when, uh, you were lifting, you know, when you were at Georgia and, uh, what 290 something pounds, 2 97, you know, and you’re doing cleans and I’m standing there watching you do your thing, you know?

Uh, and uh, now you’re grown man with four children and, you know, running a podcast and I’m sitting on the other side. So , this is funny, real quick, funny, full circle, right? Yes. Mm-hmm, one of the first ever clinics. This is back before clinics were even started. So dog was that one of the first ones that doc put on in middle Tennessee said he was one of the speakers.

Right. And this was before it was like, nobody was doing this. Do you remember those? I’m sure I do. I came in and told bench, press upper body movements and that kind of stuff. so that’s, that’s a long, many moons ago and doc was the head of the game because he brought myself in and he brought in Meg Richie, who was the first female strength coach from Arizona.

And he brought in Daniel LA duke, who was a Texas coach at the given time. Yeah. He brought in Brad role, who was at the university of Miami, you know, so we, we had a host of excellent. And then, uh, uh, he brought in a Memphis coach. That was tremendous coach back then. So in reality, you know, the coaches that came to the clinic had a.

Great time because they learned a lot and we were all still down to earth people, you know, and young in the profession. So we, we gave them everything they needed as far as information was concerned. Who, who put these clinics on? Like, how did you guys find out about ’em? Well, doc crease, uh, EJ CREI was, uh, he was my strength coach in college.

Uh, my first strength coach was a guy by the name of Martin Poe who did a great job. And then doc came in from the Georgia state prison. Right. that’s old school right there. So if you think we did old school training, we did old school training you know, because, uh, you know, we did everything, but lift the building, you know, but, uh, doc did that and he, uh, started the clinics.

You know, we had guys like a, you know, legends, true legends. When you say, uh, I remember Fred hat hat. That’s what I was just trying. Dr squat, Fred Hatfield. And that was my guy. I, uh, had to take him around, you know, and show him everything. And he was a phenomenal man. You know, he was one of the strongest ever.

He squatted a thousand, 14 pounds and he was all, but five, five, maybe. Yeah, he was small, you know, at the most, you know, but he also opened up a lot of doors for me and coaching, uh, from spending that time with him, you know, uh, cause the new England Patriots gave me call to come coach with them and that’s cuz Fred, uh, was out there with him and he said, you don’t need me.

You need my dog. Right. So that was a, that was a great, uh, thing in my, uh, coaching cap at that time. That’s good coach. If you look, uh, just look over your career, any kind of highlights or special moments that kind of like pop out any, it could be a story. It could be a, um, it could be anything actually that kind of comes to mind.

When you think about what some of those, those highlights were, you. Sure Donnie, there’s a lot of highlights in 40 years. Right. You know, and, uh, just blessed to be able to sit here and talk about some of them. You know, when I look at everything was a highlight to me, I mean, in reality, you know, watching guys train hard all summer long and improve their vertical jumps and improve their broad jumps.

And the next thing you know, you got guys jumping up and making huge plays that they couldn’t make the year before on, on, uh, tip balls or DVS, uh, faster than they were the year before. And they’re break on balls and taking back for pick six, those are all highlights. I mean, you know, watching guys do pump returns and they’ve been sitting out there with y’all all summer long and you’ve been throwing, uh, dummies at their feet as they’re trying to run by, you know, and then they’re, you’re jerking and Jing and missing.

Uh, and then they’re avoiding all the different obstacles. And when they do that, then they redo it reality in the game. So the key for me was always taking things from the weight room and put. Out to the field. So everything that they learned from us, you know, all those cleans, you taught ’em all the combo moves.

You taught them. They could do that on the field, you know, and we would mimic what they were supposed to do on the field. And they got better, you know, not only did that make them mentally stronger, it made ’em physically stronger. You know, we put ’em in a whole lot of tough, tough situations that a lot of, uh, folks can’t handle, you know, mentally, because we would say we we’re down by 14, you know, we’re in, uh, fourth quarter, we got seven minutes to go we’re down by 14.

Well, we’re gonna do to win mm-hmm , you know, and we go through the different scenarios and certain amount of yardage that you made during that workout gave you a score, you know? And are you gonna leave six and six? Or are you gonna leave 13, 14 and oh, you know, and some days were wins and some days weren’t wins.

You know, some days they grabbed the pompoms and shake the pompoms cause they lost other days they would celebrate. exactly. I think, you know, you, you just, as you’re talking right there, I’m starting to remember. I think the one thing I, I coach Joe always took away from, from mad dog was to his point. We would take guys in the off season, whether it was winter or summer mm-hmm, both combined.

And these are guys that were like maybe little scrawny, not as confident. And next thing you know, they’re big, they’re strong, they’re confident they’re leaders. And to dog’s point when you get him. Tough situation in season, they come through for you. So he was a master at like getting, not breaking guys down so much, they lost confidence, but that they built confidence up and could help the team when their time came.

So that was huge for sure. That’s what you say, Donny, you, you break ’em down to build em up. Yeah. You know, I mean, so when you, you take a man and you put him in some adverse situations to see whether he’ll fight or not, you know, that’s what the tugs were all about. Remember we put the tug things you pulled, you know, and you would tell a lot about your football team by using the tug, you know, because some guys would fight through it and some guys would, you know, they would tap, give it in.

And when they tap, they’re gonna tap yeah. At football game. So what you do is, you know, that guy’s gonna tap. So what you gotta do is keep working on him and working on his confidence on the side. So the next time he went out there, he was fighting. Even if he lost, he fought. So the, the deal is to teach him how to be competitive and fight to the end.

Coach. So fuck Joe, you’ll appreciate this. He knows my volleyball team really well, but we’re not using the tug dog with the volleyball team, but, but you could, we, yeah, we’re doing this. Like we did this cone thing. I, I got on video on my phone here, but this in the summer early on, and they’re basically like fighting over who can get this cone, one of our, you know, stud outside Scott, the cone and she would not let it go, dude.

Right. And that made me think we’re gonna be in good hands this year. This, this young lady is leading us. She’s got no quit in her, not one she’s gonna win. So yeah, you see those kind of moments. It just gives you that like aha kind of thing. So it’s cool. That’s why your leadership is so key. So when put you with the Olympic sports, you were taking everything that we did in explosive power in Texas and everything you did in explosive power and, um, Colorado, pulling them all together and you put ’em on the hill.

I watched you, I watched all the stuff you did and everything you did helped make those teams better. And that’s why, uh, Texas is, you know, winning in a bunch of Olympic sports right now. Yeah, we, we’ve got, you know, I think you guys on that side and I’m watching, you know, the track and field and I’m seeing what’s happening with the different, the volleyball teams and, uh, baseball and all the rest of them.

I mean, that’s why they’re winning. Yeah. You know, it’s the true, it’s the, excuse me, it’s the haul. It’s the hard ass work that makes the difference. No doubt. No, it definitely, uh, you gotta have in a day and time where like, it’s a lot of. How do athletes feel? You know, at some point you definitely gotta push ’em outta their comfort zone, or you just won’t get better.

You won’t change. So. Right. Um, and it’s not cool just to be okay. Yeah. No, not here. no way. say that one more time. It’s not cool to be okay here. Right? Right. You know, some places you can get away with, you know, just having an average team, you gotta win here. You know that too. See, they give you everything you can to win and they expect you to win every single.

Good stuff. Um, coach, how have you handled the hard times? This, this was one of my favorite questions, but how did you manage those and how did you balance that with the good times? How’d you manage when, when it was tough? Well, you know, uh, the way I look at things, you know what what’s, what’s your definition of tough.

You see what I’m saying? The fact that you lost a game, you lost a. You know, you gotta think, you remember every Sunday, if we lost a game, always had those guys together before we started mm-hmm and then first 10 minutes of talking, 15 minutes, whatever we go over the game, we go over what we did wrong and that kind of stuff.

And I was fortunate enough to have a guy by the name of Mac brown that believed in what I was doing, you know, and he made sure that he gave me the time to do what we were needed to do. We didn’t have to max five, six times a year, we got two maxes in that was it, you know? And then we went off the numbers.

We just went off improvement. If God was better, he was better. If he wasn’t better, he was worse. You know, you never stayed the same. So it was key that, you know, if, if a guy made a mistake in that game, you don’t relive that mistake over and over and over again, you know, you find a way to bridge to a positive.

So if you’re bridging to a positive within that first 24 to 48 hours, they gotta let that go. I mean, if a DB gets beat for a touchdown, he better let it go or he gonna get beat again. You know, and, and you, you gotta think about that. If you stick with it and stay with it, you got problems. I mean, and, and as you look at the games we won, we went to 24 bowl games in a row.

You know, who’s done that. Mm-hmm , you know, as you look back very, very, you know, and, and the other thing folks didn’t understand about me, I was in I’m in charge of every sport. Okay. I’m the was associate athletic director for strength and dig for all sports. So what I did was I went out and I hired the best guys and girls, I could find to coach stole sports mm-hmm

And every couple weeks that head coach from that sport would gimme a call or come up to my office and stop by. And we talk about how everything was going. I talked to you guys on the regular and girls to see exactly what you needed. You know, when you told me what you needed, we got make, we made sure you got it, but to be in charge of all that.

It’s tough as you’re seeing, you know, being in charge of all the Olympic sports, you know, and that including basketball and football, you know, and some of them, other ones that are out there, you know, mm-hmm, , you know, it’s different. Yeah. You know, and cuz those monsters need to be fed all the time and their coaches of course think that they’re the best that there’s ever.

Yeah, it’s funny. You mentioned that I telling our staff, I think it was a couple weeks ago. I was like, you know what, being a director’s great. But I remember thinking when dog was here, like, why is he making that decision? Like, I wouldn’t do that. Mm-hmm and then you become a director. You go, you know what I’m doing?

Mm-hmm, just the same thing as either. Exactly. Cause she just don’t exactly. You really don’t know until you sit in the seat and have to have the conversations and the difficulties, but yeah, it’s a good point. Right? And all the other things that happen in between, you know, whether the trainer’s disappointed with this coach or your, your, your coach is disappointing with the trainer or they, they think about different ways of discipline, a particular athlete, you know, all that stuff has to come together.

Everybody’s gotta go in the same direction to try to find a way to win. And it’s a tough situation, you know? So you have to be ever changing as a strength and condition in today’s culture. You know, you have to be able to listen and get along with the different coaches and get along with the different trainers yeah.

That are out there, you know, to make it work. And you can’t have people that just go rogue, you know, or you can’t have folks just coming in your weight room, training the whole world that has nothing to do with your sports. Yeah. It won’t work. No. And we we’ve had all kind of stuff, Joe, you can go next.

Yeah. Coach from looking at all the championships, you’ve been a part of and all the great athletes you developed. Can you talk about the mentality and, you know, toughness and the training you have and your philosophy, you know, and how’s it helped your athletes succeed, Joe? I, I would say that the things that we’ve done, you know, from the past to now, it it’s so different, you know, as I talk to the younger coaches and see what they’re doing and that kind of stuff, but the, the, the weight still weigh the same, the, the plates still weigh 45 pounds, you know, the, uh, the Olympic, uh, bars and bells weigh the same thing, you know?

So if you do different things with them, you’re still doing the same. You know, so what, what happens is people try to, you know, label you and say, oh, he’s old school, or he’s a dinosaur and say, no, I’m in the hard ass work. If you work hard, you’ll get success. I remember several days and you know, and D and I were talking about it before you, I can throw three sets of 10 up on the board of any exercise.

And we’ll beat the majority of the teams in the country, because those kids believe what you say. You see what I’m saying? So it’s all about the relationship you make with your athletes, the relationships you make with your coaches. So they believe in what you’re doing. And if you do that, they will fight for you.

And they’ll tell that wall down. One good thing about me is, like I said, here, I had Mac brown. I had bill McCartney before, and they both told the team, if you can’t do what he wants you to do, you can’t play for. So what that does, Donnie, is it, it puts them into a mode. Okay. Well, he’s the next guy in charge, so I’m gonna do what he says, you know, and it, and what you do is you get the best players, the best athletes, and you get them on board and then they’re police in your team and they’re helping too, you know, so when somebody’s doing something wrong or somebody’s complaining about something, you know, the great players, the Corey Reddings, I mean, you know, the guys that Rick Williams, those guys will chastise them right away and something shut up and put your hand on line.

Let’s run. Mm-hmm , you know, oh, I didn’t sign up to run track and field, but Hey, but you gonna run this because when we go play the great teams, you’re gonna be in better shape. And when we get to the fourth quarter, they’re going down and forth and we’re gonna be in great enough shape that we’re gonna fight through it, no matter what it was.

So that’s why we came back from so many games, you know, plus we had, you know, guys like Vince young and, you know, great quarterbacks and great players, you know, but that’s why we could get down and, and we didn’t get nervous because we knew we were gonna win games. I’m curious real, real quick. Yeah. You know, so much today is on mental toughness.

So kind of in your own words, mad dog, how would you define, like if a kid is mentally tough, how would you kind of put that in your own words to, you know, well, first of all, Donna, you gotta be mentally tough to come to a school like this and participate in sports. Yeah. That’s good. That then you gotta good.

Be mentally tough to be able to grind through the toughness and the things that your cultures are gonna take you through as well as go to school and deal with campus and the people on campus, you have to be mentally tough. So that’s one phase of that’s a lot toughness, but that’s a huge phase. Yeah. And if you learn how to master that, you can master the other things.

Now, the things that we did physically to make ’em mentally tough are the ones I keep in my little black bag that I walk around with and travel with. You know, you, you give a certain amount of pearls out to people and you can’t get ’em all out. But what you do is those things that they don’t like, you make a mental note of that.

And why didn’t they like it? Then I asked him, I said, why didn’t you like it was tough coach. Oh, that was tough. That’s toughest thing I’ve ever done. I said, good. I’ll keep that. thanks for sharing that. Exactly, exactly. You know, and, and those things, you know, and then you throw a variety of’em every now and then, then what, what, what guys are calling them now only is, uh, podcasts.

They’re called the most finishers when you’re at a finisher to your workout, you know, to push ’em a little bit hard. It’s more of what we talked about earlier, a metabolic thing, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re gonna try to do some metabolic work that they’re not used to doing. You know, so all of a sudden now their energy systems are kicking in and they’re like, oh my gosh, you know, I can’t breathe.

I’m tired, you know, but you gotta make sure you’re on the same page with your trainers when I was gonna do something. I would talk to Kenny or one of our trainers, you know, who, whoever, what, 10 Tom or whomever at the time and say, this is what I’m doing today. Just be ready for, you know, it’s coming out and we’re gonna do it at this point.

And they would be ready. I mean, cuz they would have their water and they would know that guys are gonna say, oh this is so tough. Oh this is so, so when they come in the trainer room, I don’t want the negativity talk to say, Hey, that was so tough. We can’t, what does that do with football? When they get in the trainer room, I want our trainer to be saying, Hey, it was tough, but you got better.

Yeah. That’s the one part people that, you know, if, if they’ve never worked for you, like I did, he did it. I mean, Joe, he did a, I think a stellar job. Like he would tell us as a staff, like, Hey, if so, and so somebody’s struggling. Just wave a hand. Yeah. We don’t need to draw, you know, a scene to it. That’s right.

But just pull ’em to the side. We can slow it down. This ain’t about killing these kids about out just making ’em better. Mm-hmm and I mean, to me, that was like a protocol that we all kind of knew about and, and, uh, it worked great. I mean, just, you had to keep, you had to pay attention to your kids, right?

And to coach’s point, you had to know those kids. If you saw a certain look on their face, how to adjust things. So it was. Yeah, you gotta know your kids’ health status, you know, who has the sickle cell trait, you know, uh, who whom, uh, has different, uh, diabetic traits or whatever you have to know your athletes and what was good about when I was here, you know?

And we, we, when we hired Kenny and Tom too, you know, we had hand signals, like you said, you know, when somebody was struggling or something, he would just wave if he saw it and he’d point at it. And I’m like, okay, go ahead, take ’em, you know, and I’ll point left or right. Or whatever, go ahead, take ’em out.

You know, because we moved the drill over or something. So they could, if they were struggling because I knew those kids. We’re not kids that were not in shape. They were kids that were having problems, medically mm-hmm , you know, and one thing about it, we had our emergency action plan in place and we knew what to do and how to do it.

I had the cell phone in my pocket all the time, you know, and Kenny had his, and we had our AEDs out there and we wanted to make sure once they invented AEDs right. We wanted to make sure if, if not, we knew how to do CPR anyway, so that’s good. Yeah. I feel like, uh, You know, it’s almost like shared suffering too, though.

You know, if, if you have that tough drill at the end and they all go through it, you know, talking about the mental aspect, when they all go through it, you know, in the locker room, they’re talking about it, cuz they got through it together and you know, it gets, gets a group pretty tight. You know, I’ve seen it in the past.

Well, Joe, I tell you, you know, with your military background, I’ve always had military guys on my football teams, you know, and I’ve always put those guys to the forefront, you know, because if it would say it’s a tough day, like it is outside right now, you got a hundred, two degrees or whatever outside, and we’re in the sandpit and you got a 35 pound weighted vest on, you know, and you know guys, oh, this is so tough.

This is so tough. I would say, Joe, come out here, tell ’em what would your guys be doing? Right. Yeah. And my guys, you know, mod and the rest of ’em would say, Hey coach, you know, we’d be doing the same thing. Our R act be close to 60 pounds or something like that. And we’d be running on the beaches, you know, we’d be crawling through the, uh, uh, sand, you know, and, but the only difference was that people would be shooting over our heads, you know, and they would be trying to kill us.

So I think that message, I know that message got across to all our players. Cause I did it every single year with certain guys. Yeah. You know? Uh, so it’s, it’s like shut up and play. Yeah. You know, I mean, it’s, it’s time to get ready to go into a battle, but our battle is not one where somebody’s shooting at you.

They’re just trying to knock your feet from under you and keep you from winning championships, you know, but if you really wanna win and you want to be the best, that’s why you came to the university of Texas or wherever I was at at that given time, you know, and you worked for that. It’s hard work to win.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s a strong message for sure. I know I’m reading in the book. Uh, the culture code Daniel coil, I think is the guy’s author’s name. Yeah. He talks about an there about to kind of coach Madden’s point earlier about like the tugs and things like that. We had the different heels change. You name it.

He would. So in the book he talks about how you build strong cultures, right. Is through in the military, they would call it like being log PTD. I don’t know if I’m saying that right, Joe, but yeah, essentially. Yeah, basically. got a group of guys carrying his log around, doing all this stuff with it, and you’re either gonna get stronger or weaker.

It’s going to be either bringing together or it’s gonna divide you. And so putting people through very hard and, and adverse situations together forms a common bond that can’t be broken. And I think that’s, that’s what coach and a lot of it is all about. So right. But, you know, and my dad was a Marine, so, you know, as well, you know, so I learned a lot growing up cause I had to do a lot of stuff.

but, but the bottom line to all that is tho those guys learn how to protect each other, you know? And when you build that, you know the word nowadays, this culture, culture, culture, we’re changing the culture. We’re doing this for the culture. I’m like, hell, we had a tremendous culture. Yes we did here. I mean, we, we, from, from that 89 team on up, we had some culture.

Now we got a couple guys in there that, uh, wanted to float through in the end, you know, because they hadn’t been vetted, you know, and they were getting ready for their vetting process, but hell we won, uh, nine games last year, you know? So last time I checked, I don’t know how many more times they done won 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 games.

Yeah. It’s been a little drought. It’s been a minute. It’s been a minute. Hopefully, hopefully back on track. It’s time. Um, all gas baby. That’s right. That’s right. Uh, coach looking back over your career again, just to the current day up to right now, your hand print can be seen in so many coaches that you’ve mentored worked.

That’s worked with, you worked for you and they’ve gone on to be very successful, great careers, including myself. So thank you, coach. Uh, what qualities. Would you say, go into, be, go into being a great strength, coach and professional. What traits would you look. a lot of it’s honesty and loyalty. You know, I think I look at people and I judge people rather quickly, you know, about how they carry themselves, how they do certain situations, how they treat other people mm-hmm , you know, and on recruiting visits guy, I can see a lot of that in kids when I spend time with them.

That’s one thing that was also good about from bill McCartney and, you know, and Mac brown is they allowed me to talk to each and every recruit and spend time with each and every recruit’s family, you know, and then took my opinion, you know, and if it was a great opinion, boom, we take them. If it was a shaky opinion, they, mm.

I don’t know. You know, and it, it’s amazing that that made such a big difference for a long time, you know? And then as the years went on, you know, of course, you know, all cultures think that they know everything, you know, and they can do whatever they want to do and shape people. And you just can’t shape some people because they’re not.

wanting to be shaped. Do you understand what I mean? Some folks just want to wear that, hook them on their shirt and wear the, uh, horns on their shirt and they’re happy. Yeah. That’s not what you want. Yeah. They don’t want they’re. They’re good. If you win or you don’t win, that’s not what you want. You want.

So some of those that are gonna stay hungry, you know what I look at with, you know, with you, uh, guys, now it is gonna be tough is now there is no more, uh, collegiate athletics to where it’s it’s IL. I mean, you, you know, you got guys getting paid to play. You know, so it’s gonna be really interesting to see what happens when somebody has a $2 million deal and you tell ’em, well, you can’t play this week because you didn’t come to workouts or you can’t play this week because you know, you, you made a, a boo boo in your classes and, uh, you know, you’re gonna be ineligible.

Yeah. You know, that, that changes the whole makeup of everything. So there’s gotta be a lot of brainstorming going on between your, you, your staff, the, the whole athletic department to try to figure out how, uh, all those situations are gonna be handled. And then what happens when you’re the, uh, $2 million, uh, quarterback and you got linemen up front that are making a thousand dollars once a year.

I mean, Texas doesn’t have that problem, but I’ve talked to schools that do have that problem. Yeah. You know, I’ve talked to schools that are trying to find ways to get money, to help them because other teams are taking their best players. You know, so that’s the reality of our world right now, you know, and I’m sure it that’ll be going on for the next three to four years with that whole portal thing.

Yeah. About, I think what you said to me is powerful about you. You’re gonna even have to do your homework even more today. Yes. To, to make sure the kid you’re getting is they got, like you said, good character, honest, and they’ve got some kind of loyalty in there that they wanna be loyal to the brand in school.

Not that they can’t leave. Right. But you’re gonna have to do more homework, you know, so, well, we had some that left that were great players. Yeah. You know, so I, I’m not against that. You know, I I’m against I’m I’m for whatever they can do that’s best for themselves and their families. They do, you know, the university used to be the only thing that they fought for mm-hmm and now with this bag being opened.

They’re gonna be trying to manipulate. Well, I’ve seen guys now, if you watch the web that are getting courted by all these different schools for different prices. Yeah. So their loyalty isn’t to the university. It isn’t to the coaches it’s just to themselves. Yeah. It’s true. So you got, you know, it’s, it’s a different kid, so you gotta train that, that kid a different way, you know, because what happens when you’re, uh, you got a kid that’s a 10 million kid and it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen.

Yeah, no, cause close to it now at a couple places and that kid’s making that kind of money and he decides that, yeah, I’m gonna do this no more. What happens to your program? Yeah. Yeah. It can flip it around quick. Right. But it also, it can help a program, you know, but I mean, you. $6 million for kickers. And I mean, that’s, that’s that stuff’s going on all across the country, not just here.

I’m when I’m speaking, I’m speaking of, I go to different places. I talk to different coaches. I got folks calling all the time. Well, coach, how do you handle this? What, what would you do in this situation? You know? So just understanding that it’s out there and it’ll be coming this way one day, you know? So you just make sure everybody’s ready on your staff.

Yeah, no, you can always see it happening, honestly. Mm-hmm yeah, it just seems like the wild west right now with all that stuff. I mean, you, it’s really hard to predict like where a lot of kids will want to go and stuff like that. And like you said, like the, the name isn’t so much as important as the, the dollar sign, it used to be the brand that everybody fought for.

Yeah. You know, it’s different. So I mean, that, that, that’s something that is, uh, out there and we know it’s out there. So you just get ready for it. Yeah. I think you, you, you, I experienced it this recently to your point, dog is like, It’s the first time ever in all my years of coaching, I’ve had this thought of.

are we really developing character now? Or is this more about the money and the brand? So I’ve had that thought and, and I know that that’s just part that comes with it, but how do you kind of preserve and protect some of that stuff that made it so special? You know, I don’t know. I think it’s gonna be a challenge for sure.

So, right. And my idea is that you keep doing what you do. Right. You know, and then you just make different changes. I mean, we’ve had guys over the years that were kind of divas or, you know, premadonnas they used to call ’em, but I mean, the guys that were, they have been treated so special in high school that they didn’t feel as though they should have to do things in college and we would break ’em down and they’d join everybody else.

That’s right. You know, it’s a tougher breakdown now, you know, because you do that. And then next thing you know, they’re wanting to tra transfer and go somewhere else, you know? So you just gotta let ’em understand when they’re coming in and they’re getting recruited, Hey, this is tough. This is not something you just wanna walk into.

You know, you gotta get your mind. Right. You know, this is where you want to be. We’re here for you. We’ll do everything we can to help you legally within the rules, but you’re gonna. Mm, that’s right, coach. Do we, I mean, is there some kind of middle ground we have to meet though? Do we start giving them some kind of like that leeway, like, like pros get now, or I would say the middle ground you have is to make it fun, make it fun.

And you wonder how do you make it fun? I tell you now I learned how to make it more fun. There’s days you. There’s cycles you work in, you know, to get ’em where they need to be. And then maybe at the end of that cycle, or during that cycle, you have a 20 minute period where they’re let, ’em be kids. Yeah.

You know, we had spot, you know, Dodge, Dodge brawl, as we called it, we had, uh, what was that? We had the medicine ball basketball. We just did that recently again, out in the sand though. Right? So you gotta be careful, but we did it. Are we allowed to say to the rules, to these games on yeah. Well you adjust the rules, dude.

The rules are, makes it fit. That’s you adjusted, you got the, you got the whistle, man. You know, so I mean times everything else, you, you handled that. I mean, whatever you feel it should be done. If you could, if you’re, if you got 15 seconds to run something, you go 10, 11. yeah. 12, you control that, you know?

Cause it’s all about how well they’re performing, how well they’re working now and if they’re not working, then you go 10, 11, 12, 13, 40, 15, boom. Didn’t make hammer em. Right. You know, but it’s, it’s all about what you want as the coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coach and with all the new technologies today and, and seeing where the field has changed, you know, how would you say you’ve adapted over the years, you know, of your career to remain so successful?

I’ve been blessed really blessed over the years because I go hire good guys like Donnie, you know, I, I go hire these brainy acts coming outta college. you know, that our tech savvy and know how to do everything, Jesse Ackerman and those kind of guys, you know? Yeah. Sharp guys, you know, sitting up there with, you know, four different master degrees and that kind of stuff, you know, and you know, that’s like with Don, Don went to every.

from how to be a millionaire. right. No. What was the guy’s name? Uh, John you’re certified. John Maxwell, John Maxwell, Johnson Maxwell. Yeah, all his different things. Uh, public speaking, you know, to, and then send other ones to track and field conferences and Australia or whatever, then send other people to Louis Simmons, you know, Lord rest his soul when he was doing all the power work and then they just bring him back and then they give a clinic to, um, our staff, you know, and everybody would be able to pick up on what they learned, you know, and that was my only thing we take care of.

We pay for whatever you had to do, but you have to bring all that information back, you know, and as they brought that information back, it helped us as a staff with staff development to totally get better all the time. One thing I can say is that one of the best things I did here too, was I let Donny run the.

Um, development program. Mm-hmm the internship program, you know, and he took it and did such a tremendous job. We had almost 10 interns every semester. Yeah. That was a big job. I mean, you know, so if you figure, you know, I was here, uh, for 16 of those years. And so you got 10 every year and we didn’t start it till maybe 2002, maybe.

Yeah. So from 2002 to 14, you know, you’re, you’re looking at, uh, 12 years with 10 interns per semester. That’s a lot of people, you know, so you, you mess around and you get hundreds of people that came through the program that learned, and Donny did a great job, cuz he had each one of the, um, interns present, they had to present their information, you know, and then they, you know, he did what he had to do and then they went out and they took their test and I would say.

almost every one of them passed all the tested. Yeah. Yeah. We had good class. I mean, you did a good job with him too, coach mean it’s just like, there’s some still coaching today. Yeah. Oh, a bunch. Yeah. There’s a bunch. Yep. One, one of S here. One of ’em came back. I saw him he’s on the, uh, football staff. Oh, um, Corey.

Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm yep. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. He, he interned yeah. With us. He was just a, yeah. Was the intern went to be a GA, right. Um, with latte got latte. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good coach. Yeah. Um, go ahead, Joe. Well, I can, I can vouch for the, that, that still remains when I interned here, right. Gave my 52 week presentation to the staff.

And, uh, you learn a lot, you know, you have to, unless you wanna stand up and get embarrassed in front of the staff who put so much time into you, you know, over the course of a semester, It’s tough, you know, tougher than you’d think. And no matter how much experience you have, there’s still a panel of coaches right there that can pick you apart and, and help you learn.

So it’s important. It’s important to do. It helped prepare you though. It did. Yeah. It did a time and congratulations to you for going through that and now being full time. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, it’s it’s you gotta, you gotta go through that, that training and equipping or just, it won’t happen. So, um, coach, just looking at your resume again, we, we mentioned this just to circle back two legendary football coaches, coach, bill McCartney, uh, who I had the privilege, uh, to work with his last year mm-hmm and then coach Mac brown, as you mentioned, um, what was it like working for those two coaches, successful coaches, and then how did you manage their expectations?

Cause the pressure is high today. So maybe some insight how you did. Pressure’s super high, but they were good people, you know, and the one thing that I learned, I had them before they were major coaches. So with, uh, bill McCartney, bill McCartney had not beaten, uh, Oklahoma ever. He had not beaten, um, uh, Nebraska, you know, and those were the teams he wanted to beat.

Uh, and it’s really funny because he sent a guy by the name of Bob Simmons, who was the D line coach. I know coach out the rice university and I was in there training guys. And at rice I had, uh, oh, I had whos who, I mean from Neil Smith and Johnny Holland. And I mean, all these first rounders, you know, and they’re like, you like coach, why you, I got first rounders at rice.

No, they were there training with me. so I had all, I had a bunch of the Texas guys, a bunch of a and M guys, all the Southwest conference guys back then. that lived in Houston, came and trained at rice every day. And I trained them just like they were my own, you know, because I, I didn’t know any other way to do it, you know, because I was lifting with them.

So I’m out here lifting, and this is the program for the day. Let’s get it, you know, and they would do it. And they like, and you know, Charles, our buckle, I mean, guys went to UCLA, you know, and those guys now to this day, cuz he’s coming over my house tonight. As a matter of fact, you know, those guys still call me and talk to me, you know, because you know, they say coach, you’re my first strength coach.

You’re you’re the guy that showed me what it’s really supposed to be like. So that. is how he learned about me. Mm-hmm and Bob came and watched me all day long. We were in a coaching change, so I didn’t know who he was. And I said, can I help you? He said, no, I’m good, man. I’m just watching. I said, okay. So I knew he was a coach, but I didn’t know.

He coached at Colorado. And then, uh, guy by the name of Ted Gill, who was our D line coach at rice just came in and he said, um, you know, I wanna take y’all to, to dinner. I said, okay. He said, he said, we’re looking for. The best strength coach in the country, such and such and such, cuz we got a good team and we could win if we had a great strength coach.

And I’m like, what you talking to me for? I’m at rice, you know, but you know, the bottom line, he said, I watched you today, you know? And you know, back then I was really throwing the weights, you know, super heavy, you know, I think I did, you know, five 50 for five on the bench with my feet crossed. We’ll get your attention.

Yeah. I mean that got kind of attention, but then, but only that, then I’m jumping up on top of the bench, you know, dancing and cuz we’re having a good time. You know, the, the guys are having a good time, took him out, ran with ’em and we had a great workout and he said, man, if we worked half as hard as y’all work here at rice, you know, we could win it all.

And I’m thinking, yeah, here’s another guy just talking it wasn’t another guy just talking because he went back, he told coach McCartney and probably within three or four days, I got a call from bill McCartney and they said, I’m looking for the best strength coach in the country. And your name keeps coming up.

Why did my name keep coming? I had, I had Arthur, uh, art, uh, Arthur Williams was a great defensive tackle. I had, uh, Al Al Williams, you know, H boys I had all the Houston guys from Colorado were training with me. Right. He said, they came back last summer and they were in the best shape as anybody on our team, you know?

And I want that thing from my whole team. I went out there and we went undefeated. Right. Yeah. You know, dominant for sure. Yeah. We were very dominant, you know, and we went back to back to back three times championships and played for two national championships. So he was, that’s be that’s when he became that great coach, cuz he remember now he had just been to the freedom bowl, you know, and he was six and five, you know?

So that’s the biggest he had ever won at Colorado. Then he made the trip and he had, we had horses now, you know, he had to have somebody who’s guide those horses. Funny kind of piece to this. I say it’s funny, but it’s cool. You go back to those days and coach Joe, you’d have to witness this what I’m about to talk about.

Um, so being at col you know, coming from the S sec, being at Colorado dog had already had just left. I was working for doc CRE mm-hmm and got to meet Boyd definitley. I did at the time through doc. And Boyd didn’t really give us the time of day. But then when I was at Texas and we went out to co uh, to Nebraska to see Boyd again, the respect he gave, there’s some kind of, I don’t know, you can speak to that.

There’s definitely a special connection there with you and Boyd. Boyd’s like a hall of Famer as well. Uh, still lifting hard and strong and he’s in his seventies now, but right. How did you guys, I mean, where did that connection come from? I mean, cause you were the first guys to beat them really then that’s why.

Yeah. That’s why. And, and, and did it with humility. You know, one thing I, I learned over the years is, you know, you, you don’t have to be braggadocious. You don’t have to be cocky and that kind of stuff. And, and boy came in and he was, uh, he brought his team to us, you know, to play. And he was Boyd. I mean, he was, you know, he he’s Boyd, you know, he’s, he’s the godfather of strength and conditioning.

Right. You know, and he was playing that role, but I was cool. I was like, all right, man. Yeah. And he said, well, we want to lift in your weight room. Before the game, I’m like what he said, we want to lift in your weight room before the game. I wanna bring all my linemen over. So I said, they’re gonna lift before we play.

I said, hold on, man. So you gonna bring your whole team over here to lift weight so you can go on the field and whip our ass. Oh no, that will not happen. And he luckily said, everybody lets us do. I said, well, no, it won’t happen, coach. I’m sorry. I can’t say you can use my weight room. You can lift my weights and then you can whoop my butt that does, that’s not good math.

You know, I’m a Vanderbilt guy. Right. You know, that’s not good math anyway. And so he took that like, you know, he kinda raised up a little bit. I was like, it don’t make a difference, you know, but he went on and we won the game and that’s the first time that Colorado had beat him. I love it. And the good thing about it is, um, He was humble.

And I got a Omaha steaks sent to me. So I had a box of Omaha steaks waiting at home when I got there, you know, a couple days later, that’s a wise decision by him. Yes. But once again, he realized who I was, you know, that I’m a straight lace person and, and I’d never bragged about beating them. And he said, that was the coolest thing because we did it every year for a long time, you know, four years, you know, but when I was going to play the national championship that first year, uh, first person I called was Boyd Epley.

And people have, well, why’d you call boy definitley? I said, because he was a national champion, he’s been through it. He knows the routine. He knows how everything’s supposed to go. He knows what happens every single day, you know? And he told me verbatim how to do it. We did it. We played right up to the end and, uh, Messed around and lost the game, you know?

Cause we had sent a couple guys on for, you know yeah. I remember that doing some things they weren’t supposed to be doing, you know, and uh, took the same formula next year and did the same exact thing. And we won, you know, so I sent him a box of stakes. no thank thanking him, you know, for doing it. And ever since then, it’s disrespect, you know, and uh, football brings that, you know, it brings it or it doesn’t bring it, you know, doc and he had, you know, something back from the Clemson days and that kind of stuff.

So, well, the thing I love about that, uh, is just the honor, cuz we don’t honor people today, which is kinda like move on to the next thing. So I don’t know. It’s always been so powerful to me to see that. Right. And as we were talking about, uh, bill McCartney, move on to Mac brown, when I took the job withm brown, after we had won back to back to back championships at, uh, Colorado, uhm, brown was one in 10.

One in 10, two and nine, I think four and seven. And then the last year he was going to the peach bowl. He won seven ball games, so he was seven and four. So that was what helped turn his program. And then we went to five ball games in a row there before he got the opportunity to come here to the university of Texas.

So that put, put him on the map and pushed him up over to hump. So, and then when we got here, we set a new standard. . Yeah. I mean, yeah. To your point, like North Carolina, you guys were like top five, weren’t you? Yeah, we were number three. I mean, y’all had like multiple, like draft picks, top grip. Yeah. Draft picks.

Right. And, and that was what was great about him is we go into the board room and, you know, we have everybody’s names up that kind of stuff. And then that first two weeks of me training him, he said, well, what you think? And I had to get on the board and I said, do you want, uh, what’s real? Or you want the company answer or you want the real answer?

And he said, coach, you giving me the real answer. And we went through every position and I saw where guys were stacked and I’d say, well, this guy would be a great defensive end. This guy would be that. And their position. Coachs like, no, they they’re tight ends. They can’t be great defensive. They can be great defensive end.

Cause they move mm-hmm and they have power and they have strength and they can, you know, they, they can flow, you know, and you know, the guys were like, oh, this guy’s crazy. You know, but thenm was like, let’s try. And he put ’em over there and they played different positions. Next thing you know, guys were, we had four tight ends.

Now we had two tight ends and two new defensive ends and, uh, you know, their names. I mean their first round draft picks for Cowboys. So, you know, you got Greg E and you got Ebos Oron were the two. Oh yeah. You know, but they didn’t need to have to sit and wait behind other guys. They need to play, you know, and as they played, they made a lot of money and they’re very successful.

Good question. Um, you know, going back to, you know, this is kind of a little side topic, but I remember coach, when you got to Texas, you brought me on board. Mm-hmm . Joe you’ll lap, this, all these fancy big weight rooms a day. We didn’t have a weight room when we first got here. Like we worked in a DL eight up in the building over old.

Building’s still actually there it’s different now, but we had that DL eight, but then we had, I, I was telling about somebody the story today, we had a weight room outside on the turf. Yes. With a tin over it with no air air conditioning. That’s right. That’s where we trained that first summer. Yeah. Uh, for coach brown and, and coach Madden their inaugural year here in 1998.

Right. Who we were building this weight room over here. Yeah. Mm-hmm . And, uh, that was one of the hardest conditioning, uh, performance summers I’ve ever been a part of as a coach. But dude, you either stayed on the team mm-hmm or you found a new team yep. Where you got and that’s how it worked. Mm-hmm and you were ready to roll when we came outta that, when we came outta that, uh, that summer.

Well, the bottom line to everything is, you know, uh, the strength and conditioning coach is so important, uh, and his delivery with the football team to get the football team prepared for, uh, game base, you know, and that summer is essential, uh, work time, you know, to get the ones that remember we had, like I said before, you had guys that just wanted to wear the Longhorns on their chest and go down on sixth street and have a good time.

But they weren’t willing to put the work in. Yeah. You know, and some of those guys decided they were going, they didn’t wanna work that hard and they were leaving. And when they left, our team just got stronger and they got better. And all those guys that stayed, um, and some of those guys had played before, you know, but you know, they got moved out by other guys.

Yep. Yep. And, uh, this is, it. It’s a game, but it’s not a game it’s serious business. Yeah. I think, you know, this, this new technology and I, and I like some of this stuff today, the new stuff, but honestly, deprivation is a motivator. When you start taking away some of this, you gotta have some of this taking away the, the bells and whistles and the fancy stuff.

And at some point you gotta get down to some hard training where you actually make kids uncomfortable, make. Make ’em tougher and the way they, so then when they get on the field, it’s, it should be somewhat easier. Right. They’re used to it, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re used to it. And when I remember Donny and well, if you remember, but when we came in 98, so right around 2000, everybody was talking about, uh, your core.

You gotta have your core strong, right? You gotta have your core. And all they were worried about was doing core work, you know, and I watched it, I watched it at Carolina. You know, one of the guys that worked for me there, he, he just in all his Olympic sports, he was, got, put him in charge of Olympic sports before I left.

And all he wanted to work on was the core, right. I mean, he’s not a bad guy, but he wanted to work. Come on man. It’s a whole lot more to a game than core, you know? And, and, and all those people that all they talked about was core. And just like the ones that all they talk about is culture all the time. You know, other people are working on everything, you know?

So when you got somebody that’s working on everything, you gonna get whooped. Mm-hmm , you know, and it’s going, it’s gonna cost you. I mean, you know, then some guys I read, you know, they wanna try new things, you know, how do you introduce new things to your teams? You grab one or two of your walk ons. , you know, people that bust their hums every single day, you know, and say, look, man, this is, what’s the latest thing that’s out there, you know?

And I want to try it if you’re willing to try it, you know, and we’ll take you separately than what we’re doing. With the guys, you can always come back, you know, but we wanna get a couple weeks of this and see what it’s like, you know, and, and if they’re for it, and I, you know, we always had walk-ons that just loved to do what the latest thing was in the world.

Oh, my, those guys love it. Love, you know, and you know, those were the guys that I would have set the tempo for our team, you know, and every now and then there’d be a pretty good exercise that we could use. Mm-hmm , you know, or, and, and that’s one thing I, at every conference or clinic I go to, I try to find one thing.

Hopefully, one thing that I think can add to our repertoire of everything that we’re doing. So, you know, and those guys were the ones that would show you. I mean, you remember when we came out with the wheels and, you know, we were battle ropes back in the day, all that stuff before you could buy em, we had to go buy ’em at a wires shop up here, Joe, up the road.

that’s battle ropes. Before you could just order ’em online. It was crazy. And that was early two thousands. Yeah. You know, so, but once again, uh, Uh, my man in Michigan state, he, he did a video with the bag of ropes, cuz he had taken, gotten some from home Depot and he talked about it and I tried it at the clinic and went through it.

The same thing with kettlebells, you know, you try things, you see whether they’re they fit or not. And if they fit, you, move them in. If you, if they don’t fit, you don’t put ’em in. Yeah. You don’t just throw your whole team into something. I mean, you’re, you know, you know, Lord rest, um, angel soul, but you know, SP off, you know, was known for the Bulgarian wave, you know?

And I remember that. Yeah, we did the Bulgarian wave. We broke every record and collegiate athletics for power clean, but we couldn’t. You know, because it, it, because you did so many sets, you know what I mean? We did long workouts, 10, 10 sets of clings and presses, you know, and I’m like, dude, we could cut this down, we cut it down.

Then we cut it down. Then we cut it down again because what happens is you get away. You’re not a power lifter. You’re not Olympic lifter. You’re not a bodybuilder. You know, and these guys and girls out here, they get so caught on in the aesthetics and the look of what you are, as opposed to whether you can play the game or not.

You have to find coaches that are teaching them the game. You know, you knew all your D line play. You could do it. You know, they cross, we had cross, you know, cross could do the linebacker play. So we had different guys that played different positions that could help our team get better at those particular positions with weighted apparatus or with bands or cords, or, and we were doing that stuff.

I always wanted to stay on the cutting edge of strength and conditioning my whole career mm-hmm , you know, so whatever was out there, we find it. And what what’s great about being in Texas is people will give you things to try, you know, give you different devices to try, because they want to get the stamp of approval on there.

And we stamped a lot of good things and we didn’t like a lot of things we’d tell ’em we didn’t like it. It didn’t work, you know, or we break it, you know, when, uh, we’d had the speed machines, we, you know, some guys made some really nice speed machines, but they only last for the first 10 guys, you know, when the big horses get on there, pow, those things are snapped.

Mm-hmm yeah, I think, uh, to your point, the thing I loved about what you’re saying was, and, and I’ve taken this away from you for years, but, um, you don’t like a lot of strength coaches. They try to force their athletes into their program. Versus build the program around that athlete. Right? Because then it’s individualized a little bit more and you find things that work that develop them in the way that you want to.

And I think that’s, I think that’s the sweet sauce, you know, mm-hmm to do that. So it’s good stuff. I’ve gone to a bunch of clinics, Don and Joe, and I watch people get on the boards and they have the prettiest programs you ever wanna see mm-hmm , you know, they got all these different colors and cycles and all the different things that they’re doing, you know, and one or two things I always ask ’em when I go up at the end, do your athletes really do this?

No. Some do some don’t your program don’t work, right? Doesn’t work. It’s good for the presentation. Yeah. Do they, do they understand what these different terms are? Cause it’s not all about what, you know, it’s what they know and they, and what they can regurgitate to you, you know, because a lot of these guys are out here trying to impress everybody else.

You know, and my thing is I ain’t in impressing nobody, you know, the bottom line is, you know, the people that you respect your family, God, those are the ones you want to impress beyond that those folks are come and go real fast. Mm-hmm that’s good. Yeah, coach, if you could go back and talk to a young, just getting certain in the field of coach mad dog Madden, what advice would you give yourself?

Knowing what you know now, what advice would I give myself? Knowing what I know now? Okay. Sure. All right. What I would say to young mad dog madness, what would you say to coach young, mad dog mad. Listen here, son. the bottom line. I would say, look don’t trust everybody. You know, uh, there are some people in the world that’ll stand with you and stand by you, but don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

That’s good. Yeah. Good wisdom. Save your money. You know, uh, you never know, uh, what tomorrow has in store for you, you know, continue to, uh, make your family a number one priority. Uh, your, your, your boys and your wife, you know, love your wife, respect your wife, you know, uh, that those are the things that are important.

Uh, it is great to be able to coach these kids. I mean, when you got thousands of ’em like I do, my phone is still over here, buzzing from father’s day stuff from yesterday, you know? And that’s a, that’s a tremendous deal for me. I mean, cuz that whole day I’m sending back texts, you know, same thing when birthdays come up and uh, holidays, Christmas and that kind of stuff.

You know, I have guys and girls from, you know, almost 40 years ago. I mean, I got the, the, the couple guys from Cincinnati. That still text me. Yeah. So good regularly, you know, and, or call and ask for advice and coach, how you doing this and this, and they’re in the business world they’re doing very well. You know what I mean?

But you gotta think, I mean, when you watch television and you see, uh, you watch ESPN and then you see, uh, Jeff Saturday, you know, doing, uh, pro football and you see Bucky Brooks doing pro football and you see Manuel Acho doing his thing and writing books. And now speaking to the university and you see Sam achos, he’s got his show, you know, I mean, mm-hmm, those guys and.

They’re just phenomenal people that still go by your basic principles. And it’s so wonderful and heartfelt when you hear them say, you know, things like the pride and winning tradition of the Texas Longhorns will not being trusted to the weak nor the Tim. And they still can respond to all the different stimulus that you taught them as they were growing up, you know, and they teach that to their athletes.

So keep teaching, keep learning, you know, don’t be like a brick on the wall, be like a sponge and suck up as much knowledge as you can from everybody. And also listen to some of them younger guys, you know, because they got a different way to do it. You know, you don’t have to carry your notebooks everywhere you go.

You don’t have to write with your pencil everywhere, you know, and you can just tell one of them and they’ll put it on the computer. Next thing you know, you got a dish, you’re walking out the door and you got your whole workout and your program’s right there. So I’ve learned a lot and a young mad dog.

Had to learn a lot in the older mad dog, cuz he ain’t old yet, you know, that’s right. I like it, you know, but he’s still learning, you know? And uh, it’s, it’s always best to get as much information you can from everybody cuz you you’ll be amazed sometimes if you just talk to somebody or listen to somebody you’ll pick up on something that you can use to help your repertoire.

Yeah. And I think that takes, you know, it takes some humility and being, you know, I always, one of my favorite quotes dog is, uh, you know, uh, everybody’s mind. Uh, should be like a parachute. It works if it’s open, right. Mm-hmm and I think you’ve always had an open mind on just philosophical changes. If, if you’ve got something that you like that’s worked, but if you find something that’s better, you’ve always been open to now.

You would always, I think you use good wisdom to test drive it for a little bit. Mm-hmm but I think you were always open minded and, uh, I feel like that’s something that’s rubbed up on me, always looking for something better, coach. Right? We gotta find, find an edge some way you gotta find that edge, but that’s why I’d ask, I’d ask y’all because there’s reasons why I hired you.

I mean, so, you know, you, you come from a total different perspective and if you notice on all my staffs, all the guys on that staff are a little bit different, very eclectic. Yeah. Very EC, eclectic. I have guys that want to, you know, can get out on knee and pray with you. You know, I got guys that can. Bench with you or squat with you, clean with you.

I got guys that can, um, talk to you about fishing and hunting, you know, but I, I always had girls, you know, that could be there for the big sister mommy thing, if, if needed, you know, cause I’m big old guys, they’re nothing, but they’re nothing but kids and grown men’s bodies, you know? And when the faster you learn that stuff, mm-hmm and the faster, you know, that they gonna get homesick the faster, you know, that, you know, they miss mama, they miss girlfriend or whatever.

And you got, you gotta have somebody that they can talk to sometime, you know, just about life, you know, or about their girlfriend or whatever. And, and that you care about them, not just about them lifting the dag on weight. Cause that’s what Mac brown tells people all the time that the least thing he did was teach them how to lift the weight.

Mm-hmm he taught ’em about life and how to be men, you know, and how this world works. So, I mean, yeah, we’re just, we’re transforming lives. We’re, you know, sports is the vehicle, weight room is the, the instrument we’re using to change lives and build strong relationships. So you’re yes. So powerful. And you’re speaking on this and we’re, you know, we just going through the Juneteenth thing, mm-hmm, , you know, where it’s become an, uh, federal holiday now, you know, how powerful is that?

That’s tremendously powerful, you know, cuz it’s tremendously powerful being here at the university of Texas when in 1960, you couldn’t walk across the railroad track, you know, to come to this place. So I look at it this way, you know, it’s a privilege and a honor for me every day that I could work at this place, you know, and it’s amazing to me, you know, how far things have come and when you look at it, you hear it from other people that aren’t like, you, you know, whether you belong or don’t belong.

But the bottom line is when you win, you belong. There it is. That’s good. One. He does a lot. It does. Um, so question, okay. I want you to talk a little bit about as we, we kind of, we’re getting close to the end here. You gotta, you got an event coming up in Vegas. You mentioned before the show. I’d love to hear a little bit about that, but anything in store for the future.

I know you’ve definitely, uh, you got inducted into the legends of the field. You’ve been speaking and traveling. You know, looking at you here in the studio, does my heart. Good. You’ve got a lot of life in you. I know you got a lot of wisdom. We’re gonna get this out to our listeners. Anything come to mind, obviously talk about the Vegas.

Right? I would love to hear more about that. And then anything that comes to mind for the future you’re thinking about. Yeah, the, the Vegas thing is a pretty big thing. It’s a, uh, the president’s award for a service, uh, and it’s a lifetime achievement award award. So, you know, congrat thank you. Thank huge.

But yeah, you’re a part of that too, you know, I mean the bottom line is I was, uh, nominated for it and won it, you know, and I get it, I think July 22nd or something like that. , you know, I’ll be, I’ll be in Vegas for, you know, those four days and, you know, enjoying life a little bit, you know, but just the fact that it’s an honor and it’s a presidential honor, you know, makes a big difference.

I mean, there’s not too many more on the totem pole. I can go get, you know, but I’m, I’m gonna try to get, ’em all . So not, there’s a legacy that you leave behind, you know, you know, for your, your kids and stuff. So, and you know, it’s just like life, you know, when, when we went to Cole Pitman’s funeral, who was our great defensive end here at university of Texas, the, um, preacher said, how many more Sundays do you have left?

Right. You have, how many more Sundays do you have left? You know? And you reflect on that. And then he says, you know, all those awards on the wall, all the degrees on the wall, won’t make a difference when that day comes. So it’s strong. It’s, it’s pretty strong. And I live by that, you know, but why not grab one every now and then if you can, you know?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um, just another piece here, any, uh, any projects you got coming up, anything? Yeah, I’ve got some stuff that, um, that are business oriented, you know, it’s amazing to me, you know, I got, got the old Vanderbilt thing, so I mean, I’m using it now, you know, um, I’ve been going around to different.

Universities too, you know, I can’t talk about that, but yeah, that’s pretty cool. I’ve I’ve been helping, it should be yeah. Different programs get their programs better, you know, more of a consultant type thing. So, you know, and then I’ve hit the, you know, different gyms of course, for the past couple years, you know, but there are some, you know, some major projects that, you know, my name is in with some pretty big time name people or that have a lot of money, you know, that’s good.

They’re using me as the sport part person. So, you know, hopefully all that’ll come into fruition and we can talk about it a whole lot more here. That’s good stuff. Yeah. And they shit, I mean, you, you got so many years of, of experience wisdom. Mm-hmm , but you’d be amazed just like yourself, how many people, you know, mm-hmm cause you don’t really realize who you know and who you’ve met until you’re out there in the real world.

Yeah. Cause that’s how they do things, coach. That’s awesome. And you know, what advice would you give a younger and up and coming coach as to grow and learn the most right now? You know, any your resources or anything. That you recommend? Well, what I did, uh, coming out and then we’re talking about 19 82, 83 season.

I went out and I learned from people. I went out and spent a day or two days or whatever they were, let me do. Uh, and back then it was, you know, right here was, uh, Dan led. Duke was here. Uh, there was a guy at, uh, Tennessee, uh, that I learned from, I went out to Arizona. I went to a lot of different places anywhere I could drive.

First of all, just to spend the day watching and to talk to them, you know, and back then they weren’t, as most people weren’t as readily available to give you the information, cuz they didn’t want you to know everybody was so secretive, you know, back then. So, you know, I had a, a host of coast of people that I got together and talked to, but I learned more at the, I.

At two o’clock in the morning with guys like, you know, Dr. Squat, you know, and the great lifters, Duane feely and Gabe IO, I mean the super heavy power lifter dudes, um, you know, that were the strongest in the world in conversation while they were eating , you know, I was the driver, you know, and they would, and they would just talk.

And it’s amazing to me, you know, you got guys like Dr. Terry, Todd, you know, who ran. He was here at the university of Texas and ran, uh, uh, wide Royal sports, you know, and I was, uh, fortunate enough to spend a lot of time with him when he was here. And Donny spends time with him and Jan Todd, you know, now, and I inducted him into the, uh, legends hall of fame and was able to give him his award, but learn so much from him.

And, you know, those kind of people that are a. You know, academics, you know, in, uh, power training and strength training, and, you know, just spend time with people. I mean, you know, you’re doing, uh, track and field. I understand, you know, but go see what they’re doing in baseball, go see what they’re doing in football, you know, and try to see how all that stuff, strength, advice.

Yeah. Yeah. How that stuff works to you. I mean, uh, when I was here, you know, uh, I had, I had every sport, like I said, then we hired DNY and all the, and the rest of the guys. And I told the lost dos that we, we will eventually have a strength coachs for every sport, the way this strength, confession thing is going, you know?

And then we bought in Todd. and Todd did basketball, but Todd spent a lot of time with us in football. And like you said, he said, coach, I learned so much watching you do those guys, you know, that he took some of the, the things that we did in football to basketball. You know, now you got a much tougher basketball team, you know, so I mean, and then, uh, of course Augie wanted it and rest his soul too.

Yeah. I am getting older. Yeah. Uh, you know, he wanted some, so he had to go out there and do a baseball team. Uh, same thing with Jody. Jody wanted the basketball team done. I took the girls over there and ran the Hills with him. Mm-hmm and the hit. And then that was it. so, you know, it’s just that, you know, you have to open your eyes and see, but you also have to respect everybody else and what they’re doing.

And my biggest respect thing, I remember taking the North Carolina football team over to watch the, um, women’s lacrosse team. and she was like, why are y’all here? We got this, we got this thing today. We had the field, we got that. So I’m just walk. We’re watching. I brought my team over here so we can see what the national champions look like.

We wanna see how the national champs work, you know, and we all took a knee over there and I told ’em to be quiet and clap when I told him to clap and they did it and we watched them, we watched them about 20 minutes of work, you know? Cause the girls was like, why are they here? You know, they, they thought we were trying to take over the field, but we weren’t we weren’t team.

No, but, but we watched them. And when we watched them, when the 20 minutes was up or 30, I can’t remember what it was when that time was up. We got up and we clapped them and we thanked them. And then we went on to go do our workout because I wanted them to see what a championship teams looks like. Even though it’s a different sport, you know, you gotta see it work, you know?

And then once you see it, then now, you know what you gotta do. To become a championship team. Yeah. Nothing better than the power of example. Yeah. That was smart. Yeah, for sure. Such a different level of commitment too, with those teams that, that know how to win and know what it takes to win and you, I don’t care where you, you can see it doesn’t matter where you are.

Yeah. It’s hard. Mm-hmm you see how good Donny talks you, he talk to power of example. See, he, he learned that from one of those classes. right, coach. You’re right. But it’s true. It’s so true. Well, coach we’re, uh, we’re kind of wrapping up here. Okay. Any what’s uh, If, if any of our listeners wanna connect, reach out, talk to you more.

What’s the easiest way. If you’re open to being reached out, you you’re email guy. You’re a social media. Facebook. Yeah, you can, you can email me at that J mad dog, 59 at Gmail, or you can, uh, email me at the mad dog, madden.com. All right. Well, we’ll make sure we get those. Yeah, absolutely. On this episode, just show notes.

So mm-hmm , that will be in the notes. Anybody listen, definitely. If you would love to, to talk to coach and meet him, you’ve not met him. Reach out. It’ll be well worth your time and just, uh, he’ll be super gracious. So thank you, coach for sharing that. Thank you guys. Yeah, coach. Thanks for coming on.

Appreciate it. Have a good time coach Madden. I tell you what, um, just some parting thoughts, just wanna say thank you so much. For everything you’ve done for me. Uh, this is I think my 24th year. Wow. Uh, at Texas. And you brought me here. Mm-hmm and just wanna show your love, uh, thank you for just taking time to be on the podcast.

Uh, again, I feel like you’re part of the foundation of why we’re all here doing such a great job. So we wanna honor you and I know you got a lot going on as well, so to make time to be on here, hopefully it’s to live on the internet forever. Hopefully well, beyond our years, but, uh, that’s it, Joe, you got anything else for, for coach or no?

Yeah, coach. Thank you. I mean, your stories are awesome. It’s like just absorbing it. I, I was like, oh man, I still got a co-host I just wanna sit here, listen to the stories. I just wanna hear this glean from it. So no, so it was awesome. Thank you coach for making time. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Joe. And then Donny, once again, I told you I did this for you.

Yes, sir. You know the bottom line, I’m proud of you. I’ve watched what you’ve done. I mean, uh, I remember when you and Karen first got. You know, then y’all have four beautiful girls, you know? So you’ve been a great dad. Uh, you’ve been a great strength coach to a whole lot of people, you know? And, uh, you touch lives.

Yes, sir. And that’s why I’m here, you know, to help you touch those lives. Coach, you keep doing what you’re doing too. Uh, keep giving back. We appreciate, we need it. We need a coach. We need your help. So Hey, that’s it for the team behind the team here in Austin, Texas coach Jeff mad dog Madden in the house.

Coach. Thank you so much. Let’s have a hot summer. Y’all take care. All right. Thank you, Danny.

Thanks so much for tuning and listening to this episode of the team behind the team podcast for future episodes, go to iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast, or Stitcher. We definitely want to keep having great guests on a show and great content. So if you have a moment, please go to iTunes, leave a rating and review and let us know how we’re doing.

I’m Donny Mabe. And thanks so much for tuning in.