E34 | Social Discipline in Sports… Good or Bad?

E34 | Social Discipline in Sports… Good or Bad?

Donnie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the team behind the team podcast. I am your host Donnie Maib. This is the monthly show focused on building conversations around the team based model approach to ethic, performance, strength, and conditioning, sports medicine, sports science, mental health, and wellness and sports nutrition.

Hello, and welcome back to the team behind the team podcast. I’m your host, Donnie Maib. And man, we are well into the summer and this episode is going to be hot today. And Joe Krawczyk, the cohost is in the house. Coach, Joe, how is his summer? Texas heat treat you so far? 

Joseph Krawczyk: I’ve mentioned it probably on three or four episodes.

Now I think I got my point across. I am I’m dying, but I hydrate get through it. Other than that, it’s good though. It’s good summer 

Donnie: coach. This is, uh, over 20 years in Texas. I have gotten to where I, I look forward to the heats. It’s a good [00:01:00] change, but I’m so glad when it leaves in the, in the fall, but yeah, it’s getting hot.

But, uh, looking forward to this episode, coach Joe, I’m gonna let you introduce our special guest, uh, cuz you have a very close relationship with him. So you kick us off from. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. So Dr. Brian, Gearity also known as Dr. G one of my mentors coming up. So I got my master’s degree through his program at the university of Denver and, uh, a quick bow on him.

He’s the founding director and assistant professor of the master of arts and sport coaching program at the university of Denver. He’s been a strength and condition coach for youth high school, collegiate and professional athletes, including stops at the university of Tennessee. Now Cleveland guardians, uh, he’s a fellow of the national strength conditioning association.

He’s editor in chief for NSCA coach and associate editor in chief for strength conditioning journal. He also serves on the editorial board for qualitative research and sport exercise and health sport, coaching review, and international sport coaching journal. So, uh, he’s a very busy guy. He does a lot of great work.

Uh, so without [00:02:00] further due, Dr. Dr. G welcome the show. And, uh, we typically like to kick it off it. Just tell us a bit about yourself, where it all began and, and how you got to where you are. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Uh, well, thank you for having me. Uh, Diane, and Joe’s good to meet you, Diane. Good job pronouncing Joe’s name too, cuz I, I taught him for two years and still have no idea how to pronounce project cry.

Daddy CRO. 

Donnie: I like that. CRADA I it’s good though. There. Yep. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Uh, well, uh, the short story. Yeah, we’ll do it quick. I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. Played all the sports as a kid got into, uh, really football and power lifting in high school and figuring my way through that, um, power lifting least, cuz we didn’t have a team.

We were a little suburb, uh, small school, 450 kids. Um, nobody was really big a lifting. I would, I would be in the gym, uh, by myself, you know, some days, most days, four days a week for 90 minutes, uh, just fumbling through with a workout card that we had that did the same thing over and over. [00:03:00] So from there, I went to John Carroll university, uh, great division three, uh, private university in the east eye of Cleveland.

Uh, we’re very proud of our pipeline to particularly the NFL. We got tons of NFL coaches, uh, for our school, our size, you know, it’s, it’s kind of interesting a little bit like a Springfield in that kind of regard, uh, and what I’m trying to build at Denver, quite frankly, too. Um, so I played football at Carroll.

I was doing athletic. I, I actually started as a business major, then took a year of econ and I said, this is the MIS most miserable thing ever. Uh, I switched my major to exercise science and PHS ed. I also did athletic training because, you know, that’s the only thing we really had back then. This was in, uh, 97 and 2001 is when I graduated, uh, the same week I was playing in a JV football game.

I stuck my arm out and dislocated my shoulder that same weekend class. We actually covered dislocation. So I knew what happened when I dislocated my shoulder. Um, and that subsequently ended my football career. Cuz the, the following spring, I [00:04:00] got an internship with, uh, the Cleveland baseball team. In strength conditioning.

Uh, and, and, uh, so I worked with Cleveland, uh, uh, his head strength coach was Fernando Monte at the time, Fernando, back in the day. Uh, Fernando’s still a strength coach too. Now he’s working with LA fire department. Um, so Fernando’s been around for forever. Uh, he was at Stanford before to Cleveland baseball team.

Uh, and, and at that time too. And why do I say this too? Right? Fernando and the Cleveland baseball team had developed one of the most extensive and earlier, really early pioneers in strength, conditioning, and professional baseball. You know, they started the professional baseball strength, conditioning society.

That’s still going strong today. Um, and so I just got connected with a lot of great folks. Um, Great experience, not an easy experience either, uh, but a hard working experience and, and a great opportunity to see things from the, the book in the class, in the, in the coaching, as well as just make observations and learn things in actual coaching.

Uh, And then [00:05:00] from Cleveland went to the university of Tennessee as a strength coach for baseball and football. Um, so I was a university of Tennessee from oh one to oh nine. I also did my master’s degree there, my PhD, uh, I thought I’d probably coach until I was, you know, if I was lucky 45, 50, 55, maybe, maybe I’d become an athletic director, uh, get fired, move around and all that kind of stuff.

But, uh, towards the end of my PhD, I started having, I have a couple, I had a couple kids with the wife. Uh, we, uh, I, you know, I, I hated leaving the house at 5, 5 30 in the morning, getting home at six. And, um, I enjoyed starting to write papers and research and my doctoral advisor did a terrific job coaching me up, um, tougher, tougher than nails.

Uh, she’s from New York city, about five feet tall and, and would just demolish every sentence, every word. Uh, and, and held me to accountability on being the best scholar that I could be. Uh, and I owe my ability to really put together an academic [00:06:00] sentence, uh, in a large part from her. So from there, yeah, coach of Tennessee, then for eight years, uh, football, baseball, uh, did tennis for a year cheerleading for a year, and then went to Southern miss as a professor.

And after about a year there or two, I said, you know, I’m gonna lose my mind sitting in my office, all. And so I coached high school football and was a strength coach for a high school team down there for a couple years. Uh, and then I got hired at Denver to start the program, the master’s degree in 2014, we’ve added a couple certificate programs in coaching, strength, conditioning, and finally an undergraduate minor, and hopefully a major soon enough.

So that’s the quick go around 

Joseph Krawczyk: that. That’s awesome. I mean, I’ve, and it’s crazy to think I’ve known you for four years now, which is time is flying. I really kind of want to dive right into, you know, really what you’ve been working on a lot, you know, the societal aspects of sport coach and things like that.

You know why I, I feel like most programs are really trying to get into, I [00:07:00] guess, the, the general nuts and bolts, like the, the biology, the physics of everything, but you went more societal stuff, you know, why, why did you go there? 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Uh, it’s interesting. Why did I do that? Gosh, what, how do you even, it’s such a hard, like I’m laughing, right.

Well, why did I do that? And I could, I could give you a biological explanation, I guess, of why I did that. And I could give a sociological historical explanation, but I mean, what boil down to, for me when I was coming through, I really loved. And I love my physiology classes, my biomechanics anatomy classes, you know, I, I degree in those courses and really enjoyed it, but I never saw myself as that sort of researcher personally.

Like I, I would read it, I would study it. Uh, I applied it to my own training and the training of other people, but I never saw myself working in that setting, you know, in, in, in a lab or collecting data and doing that kind of stuff. Um, when I got into grad school, And I started reading more qualitative research.

I read more [00:08:00] sociology philosophy, social theory, and I was reading stuff in like education settings, cuz that’s also what I studied was cultural studies of education and sports psychology. And I was like, man, I, you know, I, I started to see myself in the two thousands, 2005, 2006 when the sociology of coaching really was coming up.

And I would look at this research about issues of race or gender. Um, power, knowledge control, um, critical theory. And I’m reading this stuff going, man, this would be great. Like, is anybody writing about this in coaching? You know, and like you read the journals, Joe, right? Because the foundation, at least of like the NSCA in modern or strength conditioning was built on evidence based science, right?

Like they had to justify training to overcome. The, the, the myths and the fallacies of the, of previous days, right? Like lifting makes you slow, makes you tight. Uh, like we know those things are not true if done correctly. Right? Um, so they, we really had [00:09:00] to have the, what we call the positivist science, the biology, the physiology, bio biomechanics later nutrition has become more popular.

So that evidence based practice or evidence in foreign practice, um, was underpinning strength, conditioning. You know, um, but I never saw myself as that sort of researcher until I started getting into, you know, the stuff that I currently do and had been doing now for a dozen years. Um, and it’s pretty wild to be able to carve that out and write about that and think about that in the world of trans conditioning.

You know, so I remember at Tennessee, for example, I wrote about this and I like to write stories. Uh, you know, if you know, I, you know, I, I do ethnographies or narrative writing, so literally I’m writing stories, too short stories. And, um, I remember coaching a guy, black guy, Tennessee baseball player. And he came out and it was just the two of us.

He was making up a workout. And this has become more popular and private in today’s age more, right. Because more people are realizing and talking about. So he, he had a bandaid on and he kind of like said something like, yeah, [00:10:00] you know, just, I got my flesh colored bandaid then. And the bandaid was a peach colored, writes a white colored kind of bandaid.

And I remember just thinking, I’m reading cultural studies and race theory by Cornell west and all the, um, and black scholars at the time too in grad school. And I just like was like, man, that’s such a great point. Like here it is in practice, you know, he’s talking about it now. How do I, as a coach respond to that, you know, like here’s a great opportunity for us to, uh, have a, a relationship to deepen that relationship for me to listen, affirm, understand.

Um, and for him to realize, Hey, like, you know, here is a white coach that is gonna respond to this in a culturally sensitive, a culturally appropriate way, you know, and really affirm it. So now I just saw an advertisement. There’s more and more advertisements nowadays for, you know, different color bandaids.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just one. The example of kind of the cultural diversity, you know, inclusivity sort of work, um, that I’ve kind of been interested in, uh, and obviously the more other [00:11:00] critical work about power and knowledge and, you know, explaining too, like, Joe, you had a great question of. Why do coaches do what they do, whether that be Olympic lifting or power lifting now, right.

Sport science is taken off again, even more so, uh, so there’s different periods of, of time that we can look at that and try to make sense of that. Uh, and then, right. How do I, how do I share that with other people and communicate that to get us to be creative, critical, uh, ethical thinkers and doers in strength conditioning, whether.

You know, a coach, a scientist or a professor, it doesn’t matter. You know, how do you kind of talk about these things and how do we try to hopefully make the world a better place while enhancing performance? 

Donnie: It’s tough. Yeah. Um, I’m curious, this, this is maybe a interesting or odd question looking at. The societal aspects of like sports.

I know I worked with football, I played football, worked with football and you, you have to, and, uh, you, you get, [00:12:00] you deal with some difficult kids that come from some very challenging, you know, ways they were raised. How does the ni stuff gonna impact this, this societal be? How’s that gonna cause to me?

Cause I’m just gonna say in my mind, as a coach and, and seeing what kids are coming out of, in one sense, you see it’s an opportunity to help ’em. I also feel like it’s another, just another thing that could almost like, cause more problems and like derail ’em a little bit, but maybe I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

It’s a little different topic, but 

Dr. Brian Gearity: yeah, no, great. I, I, you know, it’s so interesting cause uh, Don the, uh, back when college football, well college rowing, right as the first sport, you know, a hundred plus years. College athletes back then were paid. So the idea that the ni was now obviously has a different ballgame, especially in today’s age, but college athletes at the foundation of college sports were also paid.

So it, it wasn’t like something like the whole amateurism [00:13:00] discourse of today’s age is relatively new and that’s actually in an invented term, like the whole term student athlete and. Um, the idea of amateurism was really pushed by Walter Byer as the former president of the N NCAA it’s in his book on sportsman, like conduct that he said he invented the term, really.

He hyphenated it purposefully to try to kind of give more of an illusion that students and athletes could go together at a really a big time level. Cuz they, they know it. Right. Like, you know, they’re as, as they took away power and money from athletes to consolidate it, uh, yeah, they had to do things to overcome that resistance.

So let let’s let’s know a little bit of that kind of history and situated there, I think, right. I think you’re right. That for some, it’s gonna be very disruptive, uh, and it could be personally disruptive, but right. If college and if coaches are really building character and educating people now is the time to, you know, put up or shut up.

Like if you’re really in the [00:14:00] business of preparing people for life, for being good citizens, whatever that means. Uh, in trying to help them help themselves too, then setting up courses and professional development, um, consultants, you know, I know a lot of the athletic departments have either an internal, external consultant now, or, or employee.

That is dealing with ni L issues and right. Trying to counsel the athletes through that. And so what also, I think you’re what we’re seeing too in today’s age is the emergence of athlete or player development at a greater level, too. You’re starting to see more people with kind of backgrounds in either social work or psychology or.

Um, you know, the, the, the used to be right back in the day, you had a former athlete on staff that maybe did some character sort of training that’s. Right. Right. And, and, and you had that good person that hopefully had good virtues and values and could be around the players and kind of coach ’em up a little bit informally, but they’re actually right.

We’re starting to kind of put that [00:15:00] into a system in a pathway, much like sport science. Uh, so I, I see it as a great opportunity for athletes to. Benefit and profit, you know, from their work. 

Donnie: Um, yeah, one more thing on this, Joe. I just, this topic is so fascinating to me. I was sitting in a meeting probably a couple months ago and you know, the big thing in, in performance right now is technology and like collecting data and athlete, uh, uh, management, just looking at all this readiness of performance.

Right. And so we’re sitting in this room and this was an MBA. Uh, and I, I forget his title, Dr. Garrity, but he basically, his number one job is to track like social behaviors, character flaws, things that you typically would, uh, you know, oh, that’s, well, we’ll work on that when they get here, but like tracking, like where’s the risk at?

And like, what, how do, what do we need to do to develop these areas too? Not. [00:16:00] The physical performance. So it was just fascinating to me that sports is kind of headed in that direction that you’re starting to see these character flaws and behavioral things that can cost you money, just like you, if you jump high or not.

So in interesting stuff. Yeah, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: it sounds too a little bit like that wonder lick that they try to do in the NFL or any of the sort of psychometrics it it’s when I was going through grad school. and at, at Tennessee, um, the, the book and movie Moneyball had just come out. Right. And so using, using statistics, data analytics, big tech, you know, big data and technology to predict performance.

I remember trying to explain, you know, basically what we call ’em like multiple regression analysis, like using advanced statistical techniques to predict performance and who is gonna play and who’s not gonna play. And then who should you recruit? Not recruit. So, I mean, it’s just reducing error and trying to, uh, allocate resources, you know, via behavioral economics, the best you can coach 

Donnie: real.

I had the craziest thing happen to me yet. Uh, two days [00:17:00] ago, Joe, you’re gonna laugh at this. Have you ever heard of this live 360 app? You know what that is? It’s, it’s, it’s a little technology thing on your phone app that basically you can track where somebody is in their. So it, but it gives you like your speed, how fast you’re going or you stop anyway.

So I got this printout. Yeah. I didn’t ask for it, doc. It, it sent me this printout, Joe of like how safe my driving was. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of creeped me out. I was like, whoa. And it said that I I’ve actually like been approved for lower insurance rates. I’m like, if somebody’s tracking my Dr. Like I didn’t ask to get.

Like, how much is this it’s getting into your own personal lives now? Like how much is this getting into like sports too, but anyway. 

Yeah. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Well, I mean, I ask, so like to what, what you hit on, this is the sort of, kind of thinking, like, when you make observations, like this goes right, like this is the stuff that I was kind of like.

I, I really enjoy this and now I wanna [00:18:00] go study this, like, but not, not to do it. Like I never wanted to be the business entrepreneur technologist, you know, to do what you just talked about. I wanted to be the social theorist kind of understanding that mm-hmm and so what, what we call that, right? It sounds to me like surveillance technology, right?

Like it’s, it’s, you’ve got these devices and not only are coaches like doing these things to athletes with sleep with nutrition. All sorts of force plates and GPS trackers and accelerometers and that stuff nowadays. But the, you know, the athletes too are supposed to load their data and you, you get the app out and it monitors you and you don’t know what you’re signing up for.

And so in this kind of capitalistic surveillance technology age, right? The benefit is, yeah, you might lower your car insurance if you know about it, but this, these companies are also taking all of this data. You know, and doing things with it. And so I, I think the interesting thing too is in pro sports, you, you basically can’t do [00:19:00] that because the player’s union is so powerful.

That. So I was talking, I was talking right to, to coach Lauren Landow here a few weeks ago cuz he’s in town, he’s endeavor here and you know, the, the Broncos don’t use sleep technology because in part because they can’t right. They, they literally can’t do it. You can’t make the players do that kind of stuff, but in college you can’t, and it happens a lot that they’re wearing the sleep tech.

Right. And so that, that to me is a fascinating thing because that to me helps show elucidate, right? Power relations of power that, you know, if a coach thinks that that’s gonna enhance performance or control the athlete, uh, maybe give them a performance advantage. They’re gonna do it. Whereas at like a pro level or, you know, back in the day, you, you weren’t tracking all of this stuff.

Is it really making us better or is it making us feel better or are we doing it because everybody else is doing it? Uh, is there really any evidence that shows that it’s really. Helpful. And are we also doing, you know, the evidence to show how it’s [00:20:00] harmful? You know, we always, we often talk about things as this sort of utopian version of, uh, data and science.

Like it’s all gonna make us better, right? Like, oh, more data, more science, more tracking. Oh, everything’s better, less injuries. Is it. Is it. And are you doing research to counter prove that because if you’re not, you’re not actually doing your, your science. Well, if you’re not actually trying to disprove your so-called hypotheses, so that’s the kind of stuff I get into.

I get into philosophy and sociology of science, you know, and, and nerd out and, you know, become a pain on like a fly on the wall and ask weird questions. Those are the best questions. 

Donnie: That’s good stuff. Coach G uh, just gonna change gears a little bit on some of the questions. Uh, so let’s dig into Faco and who he is and how he’s influenced your work.

And how does that, how does he relate to athletic performance? If you could take a moment and dig into that for us? Yeah. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: So Fuco Michelle Fuco was a friends philosopher and social theorist. Uh, [00:21:00] he’s been called a historian of thought. And so if I just use that phrase for a second and think about what does that mean?

What, what he did as a historian thought is looked at house. Like dominant kind of theories and practices emerged and sustained over periods of time. So like, I look at strength conditioning, a simple way would be like, right. Like in the old days you would pick up. You know, objects, right? You pick up maybe blocks and wood and, you know, whatever was around Spears kind of Olympic games, right?

Like that kind of stuff in the old days, um, cows, right? Like the pick the idea of, you know, picking up a calf until it became a cow for progressive overload. Well, nowadays, we don’t do that anymore. Why, why, why has that not happened? Or can, why did that stop and why do new things come up? You know, why, why do things emerge in the last, if we do a quick 40 year history or 50 year history of strength conditioning, you know, at one point power lifting was really prevalent [00:22:00] or, and, and, and it about the same time machine based training Nautilus machines were very popular.

Right? Why did those things fall outta favor? Why did they become popular? And so we can look at those forces that helped contribute to make that happen. Olympic lifting became more popular. Uh, then it became more about, uh, recovery rest and recovery. Now, again, we’re seeing a little bit more sports science, uh, becoming prevalent.

So in one way, used for cos and as, as a historian and as a social theorist to help kind of look at relations of power and how these forces emerge to, uh, cause these kind of popular ways of thinking and doing things, um, You know, so how does something get ahold nowadays? You know, there’s various coaches and I don’t, I don’t like to call anybody out in that kind of phrase or identify it, uh, because I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna knock anybody.

And I’m also not trying to kind of popularize or valorize anybody either, but you. [00:23:00] You’ve got so many different training systems. You know why that, you know, why this now, how does somebody promote that? And, and in today’s age, you know, social media conferences, um, you know, so-called experts and people that have voices and have good positions and good titles over periods of time, you know, that gives people a lot of credibility, a lot of power.

So they get to popularize things, um, you know, in tri conditioning circles, Russian Bulgarian, you know, Eastern, black, European, German. Have a, sort of almost a cultural fetish, you know, that we’re fascinated by whatever they were doing minus all the steroids that we know about too. Uh, and obviously O other unethical things, you know, we’ll kind of put that to the side, but we’re just look at their magical training programs, which doesn’t make sense because obviously if you’re taking, you know, the secret sauce that you’re gonna recover a lot better.

You know, and, and your muscles are recovering, uh, but we still have this kind of cultural fetish of that kind of [00:24:00] stuff. So anyway, that that’s one way to approach it. That’s one way to look at it, you know, to make sense of why this now, right. So if a student ever asks, uh, Hey, I saw the NSCA book, or these coaches are using KET bell trainings and we would laugh and go, well, shit, you know, 15 years ago, nobody was doing ketlebell trainings.

Decades or hundreds of years ago they were. So again, what, what explains that kind of coming and going of different training methods, you know, and making sense of that. And for me, it boils down to like, I, I like right. I use it to make the point of, you have to think, you have to be critical. You have to know these things.

You have to understand that science is a way of looking at it and science and social science and biology and physiology and all sorts of different ways of looking at it are just lenses of looking. It, it’s not like anybody has access to the direct truth. Um, now we can understand cause and mechanisms and we can get into science deeper, but that, that’s the kind of point that I try to make the ne there’s an, maybe I’ll shut up for a second too and see what y’all [00:25:00] think.

But there’s one more point about Fuco that I, that I’ll make about discipline and, and training technologies. But let me, let me be quiet for maybe a second here. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. Well, and the big thing with, uh, Fuco too is like, You know, it seemed like he took a lot of like his, his theories and stuff like that from an earlier time where we probably just had gotten through the, the first couple world wars, a lot of veterans in this country and their style of leadership was very much like a controlled discipline based.

And then they translated that to the business world, the industrial world, and things like that, where the, the followers fall in line and the leaders lead. And if you wanna become a leader, it’s, you know, there’s probably a narrow avenue to get there, but you know, it, it really started to translate in a sports.

And I, I can’t remember doctors, you have to remind me, I think it was in the seventies. Notre Dame brought in some military personnel to, to wash your football practice. And then they started modeling their football camps and football practices after like this [00:26:00] militaristic style of training of, of discipline and hierarchy and things like that.

And so we’ve turned this, this way of leadership that was successful for capitalist capitalistic ideas and brought it over to strength and conditioning, essentially. Um, so to me, it’s just so interesting and, and I’ll be the first to tell you, as a, as a former military guy, In the culture of the military in, in the armed services, it works, but it’s a completely different culture.

And then when you kind of bring it over here and I see it all the time is people try to instill like these militaristic styles. It’s like, it, it just almost doesn’t work. And as, as we keep pushing forward in time and people starts to become more open minded and free thinking, and some of these student athletes are very, um, I don’t know what the right word for it is, but I, I guess, uh, open, open thinkers, um, You know, we’re kind of neglect our athletes when they’re trying to think on their own and, and kind of become leaders and we fail to empower ’em.

And so, [00:27:00] um, that, that’s why I kind of brought up because cuz man, like, like I said, In the military, it works. It it’s, it’s a great way to go about it, but there’s different stakes. It’s a different job. And then you bring it over here. Um, and there’s even a book out by Kobe right now called trust and inspire.

Um, it’s kind of like a sequel off of his last book. I think it was called, uh, something of trust. Uh, I can’t remember, but Dean of trust. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And so his whole thing now is he’s, he’s kind of going off the same thing. It’s not necessarily for co, but it’s he saying that. We need to stop taking this militaristic stuff, stop telling people just what to do all the time.

Like inspire them, bring them up, let them, let them figure it out. You know, so 

Dr. Brian Gearity: connected with coach Down’s point earlier, too, that, you know, if, if, if we really wanna educate and prepare people to trust them and to help them make good decisions, not in a paternalistic discipline authoritarian sort of way.

Mm-hmm we have to educate folks and, and they’re gonna make mistakes. [00:28:00] But that could also help them then with ni if they’re really trying to be responsible and, and become educated. And, you know, sometimes they have that freedom then to make choices. If they want to go out and buy a car, if they wanna buy a jewelry, if they wanna, um, invest it in a house maybe, or stocks or a business, you know, people are gonna make mistakes.

Um, but that’s part of the freedom that they have to do that, um, at least. Uh, yeah, I think a good example too. I was just seeing another video on social media and I can’t stand it. And I know some people do it, uh, where you count, you’re counting, know the team is counting during stretching, you know? And so the team is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, you know, and I’m from a relaxation and a, and a physiological stance.

Like it’s terrible because you’re not relaxing. You’re not actually able to concentrate on a. But it’s such a, again, Joe, it’s a militaristic sort of thing that you’re counting during the stretch and there’s no performance advantage to that. It’s not like, you know, okay, now we count to 10 and we’re all mathematicians or [00:29:00] the, somehow the hamstring is relaxed better, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It, it doesn’t make a lot of sense, but it’s great for so-called discipline and accountability. Yeah. So I mean so much, that’s a, it’s a contemporary issue. But yeah, the, so it was too, we look at John wooden, John Wood went to, as a basketball coach back then day went to a, an Notre Dame practice and he noticed how it regimented everything was right.

And so wooden changed when he was coaching high school, even I think back then he changed his practices and, and Notre Dame was practices were based on military training. Right. And because, you know, same thing had Tennessee general Neil and he was the stadium is Neil and stadium cuz he was gen you know, he was named after, uh, him and he was in the military because they all had military service.

It was required. You know, it was mandatory that everybody, you know, basically every male in the us had to serve in the military. Today’s age is different. Why? Well, one, because we’re done with world war I and two, uh, sports and military are different setting. Coaches picked that up because it had, you know, [00:30:00] like you’re saying the factory workers and the productivity, and you could have good, uh, efficiency, not necessarily effectiveness.

And we can look at the military and go, how come the military nowadays has changed their training as well, because they were getting burnt out. They were causing injuries. You know, people were literally, I mean, they’re investing millions of dollars into especially special force forces, uh, soldiers. And they realize like this is costing us a fortune and we’re getting rid of good soldiers.

By just breaking legs and overuse injuries, traumatic injuries. Why do we, why do we continue that same logic? Right. And it’s very hard. Why do you continue to take Lyman and make ’em run, uh, a hundred yard sprints when they’re never gonna do it in the game, but you love it because that’s what everybody does that sort of uniformity.

Uh, is to me, right. Is very Fuco in that, you know, these things come up, not just to say that they’re wrong, it’s not about again right or wrong, or that’s bad science, and now we know better. But in this case, Fuco is very interested in the [00:31:00] production of docile bodies and using these disciplinary practices.

The control of time and space and the flow of bodies. Right? So strength conditioning looks very similar across the country. In some regards, everybody lines up and rows and columns. Who else lines up in rows and columns, uh, prisoners, soldiers, students, you know, when, when you wanna control the factory workers, when you wanna control the masses.

You have uniformity. Everybody has to dress the same, you know? Right. Like both, nobody can see it now, but both of you are wearing texture shirts. Uh, and if you wore something else like that would be Sacra sank, you can’t wear anybody else. Uh, besides the university you’re, you’re employed by. Uh, but so everybody’s got dressed the same way.

They tuck the shirts in the same way. The shoes are tied the same way. You know, you can’t deviate necessarily the workouts even, and you’re going, this is, you know, really this is wild from a lot of different standpoints, from a motivation, from a physiology from biomechanic biomechanics. Uh, and I wrote [00:32:00] about it in, in that one paper we read years ago that, you know, you had athletes using improper loads, either too light, too little, they got low back pain, they got knee pain.

How come they don’t tell you because it’s about listening and doing to whatever the coach says so often. And, and that’s what sticks, you know, and unfortunately all you have to do is call somebody soft. You’re. you know, and that’s like the, the kiss to death to go, oh no, damn I ain’t soft. You know, and I’m gonna overreact and become extra, you know, aggressive now and extra tough and mentally tough and more resilient and just keep throwing more stuff at you.

And you know, when you get broken, you know, there you go. It’s a surprise cuz you couldn’t handle it. You. Hey. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. Yeah. And just, and just to kind of rewind a little bit, like to kind of give some people like insight on the, on the military side of things is, and a lot of people don’t really know this, cuz I mean, it really is kinda almost like, like a separate world of the military.

I mean, they are trying to get away from that because they need operators in special forces to make [00:33:00] decisions. Individually in small teams, um, in high stake situations essentially, um, because warfare has moving closer and closer to an urban terrain. As urban terrain takes over the globe, they’re fighting in that 360 environment and they find that smaller units, uh, operate a little bit better.

Like the days of bum rushing on Dday with 20,000 soldiers of Marines, um, on the, on the beaches are essentially over, right? So like you have to have these, this leadership. Free thinking, um, operators being able to, to, to conduct their mission. So, um, and that’s why you see a lot of civilian contractors in strength condition heading toward the, the military side.

Dr. Brian Gearity: Now take, take it, take that example of leadership. Right. And really think about that, right? Like, and you guys might are different, right. Cause you’ve been around and, and you’ve thought about this and study it. Think about leadership development, you know, and there’s, there’s volumes of books for thousands of years on leadership.

Right. Trying to figure out too, you know, what [00:34:00] is that? What is that? If you think about leadership development on your football team or your baseball team, your Olympic sports, how much training do strength, conditioning coaches or any coaches or anybody in the athletics department get for leadership development?

You know, if you come out of a traditional PhysEd or exercise science program, Especially if it’s a heavy, heavy exercise science program, probably not much at all, you know? So how are you actually helping educate young men, young women to develop themselves and understand things differently real 

Donnie: quick? I think that’s so powerful what you just said.

And that’s something that I think Dr. Garty the, the last, probably like five, 10 years of my career, more specifically, probably the last five something that’s kind of like stood out to me. We’re preaching, you know, performance get better, grow, find an edge. But I start [00:35:00] thinking, I start really looking at this from whether it’s administrators or, or high level coaches, but like how many coaches are really getting coached themselves.

Hmm. Like how, how can I give you something that I don’t personally have? Yeah. I know my knowledge and stuff like that, but like, if I’m not getting better, if I’m not getting coached and challenged personally and professionally, how can I expect my kids and my athletes to do this? And I don’t know, I just, I, I’m not trying to like call people out necessarily, but I just, I think it’s something that, and I think a lot of it is there’s so much, it’s getting so complex now.

That people have gotten so much into taking care of the business that they don’t take care of themselves. I don’t know. That’s what I’ve been seeing a lot lately. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Yeah. I, I mean two things real quick. I mean, the, the speed of which so many publications and news information and social media is where we’re drowning in, uh, information and little bites and sound bites rather than, you know, insights, [00:36:00] um, is really a challenge of today’s.

Uh, reviewing the literature is absolutely astronomical too. So it’s like a full time job just doing that. So how anybody stays up with stuff in practice is obviously a very hard challenge, right? The, the thing for me, like from co or sociology more generally too, is to understand that how I think, how you think, how we all think our biographies, you know, so to speak are socially constructed, right?

Like within a period of time, We think a certain way. And so for me, I, I found that to be very interesting and empowering to realize I’m not trying to just reflect on myself to and better myself. I’m trying to reflect on why do I even know about this nowadays? And what don’t I know about. Right. So Fuco would even talking about, you were talk about these dominant discourse, like things that you kind of know about, right?

Like growth mindset. You know, uh, performance [00:37:00] discourse, like we’re hitting on those things. Those are really front and center performance advantage, performance enhancement. But why this now? Why, why do I hear these words in this particular time period? What, what books, what authors, what coaches. Right.

What’s happening that we’re focused on this and he would talk about reverse the reverse discourse. Right. So just flip it in reverse, what are maybe the opposite sort of discourse as well as marginalized discourse? Like what’s on the fringes that people aren’t talking about that you’re like, huh, that’s kind of interesting.

And not to, not to, just to be a, a, a, a contrary and you know, or pain in the butt just to kind of, you know, stir stuff up, but to really think about it. Hey, you know what? Maybe we should emphasize like fun and pleasure. Like I heard that’s pretty motivating. Right? Right. Like, you know, if the kids have fun, what, what about the college kids too?

And the adults, you know, how about, you know, talking to people and addressing their needs. [00:38:00] Uh, not just, you know, giving them and telling them what they need. Uh Hmm. You know, so like, right. You start to kind of think like this and, and it gives you the, the language, the tools to kind of talk about it. And, uh, you know, again, not to just to subvert people in a, what I would say, and I I’ve been reading more about this, and I want to bring this into from co you know, in, in a behavioral reacting sort of way.

Like, I’m not just kind of reacting to. To respond and act out like a, like a rebellious teenager, but to really think about, um, you know, self care, developing myself, living a, a life that I wanna live, uh, to create something of myself. And what does that really look like? And how do I do that? That’s an interesting relationship for yourself as well as to other people.

You know, and if I think about athletes like that, like how do I help you become the version you wanna become and use the knowledge that I have of, Hey, here’s what I think some exercises that are important for you here, [00:39:00] you know, I don’t think you should do that exercise. And here’s why, but maybe you’re right too.

I don’t know, you know, and, and become a little bit more humble in your approach. And, um, Yeah, I think you start to use your power ethically or challenge it before you just start barking orders and telling everybody what to do all the time. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. I think there’s a big fear factor to it too. I mean, people are, oh yeah.

People are afraid to kind of lose that control cause they feel like something’s gonna happen. You know? And as leaders, we, we take the brunt of the blame on stuff. So it’s like if some. You know, has an idea. You’re like, I’m not letting you do it. You’re not a certified strain coach, but I mean, you have, you have no idea.

Dr. Brian Gearity: There’s certain irony, right? And to that, that coaches will often talk about be leaders and be, you know, why aren’t you thinking? Why aren’t you thinking? What, what, what were you thinking? You know? And like, we’re trying to kind of build that sort of leadership, but then we often don’t actually follow up those practices to get.

yeah. Uh, right. [00:40:00] So it’s like, we, we say that, but then we don’t really kind of actually do the right methods to get there. It’s a weird kind of thing that happens a lot in sports. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. And, and, you know, even, and I, we kinda keep coming to the militaristic stuff, but I think the connection is really strong. I mean, I mean, I look back to when I was like 23 first platoon I I’ve ever had guys had come back from Afghanistan.

I. I had 19 year olds, you know, guys, four years younger than me who had been a more combat deployment than I had already. And they’re, they’re just kids and they knew stuff, you know, and if I were to come in with my position as a platoon commander and start saying that kind of stuff to them, I mean, they would just tune me out, you know, they would turn their back on me.

And I mean, it’s like, you have to respect that at, at some point, like whether it’s athletes or, or younger service members or employees, like they’re gonna have something to. You know, to the table, like they did something and get to that point, you know? And so I, I think the biggest part is like, you have to listen and open your mind [00:41:00] to.

Not be so afraid of something going wrong or, or losing that control, but like let it grow and, and see what happens. And then if maybe things start to go south, you could put a stop to it. But if, if it keeps going in the right direction, you just let it go. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: It’s tough. Right. But it starts to connect the dots and listen to the media and the kind of ways that maybe athletic directors and other people talk about coaches and administrators that right.

If you become a soft player’s coach, And you lose discipline on the team, or maybe you just lose a few games for some other reason, too. They will, they will use that players’ coach soft kind of discourse to get you, you know, uh, and, and to get rid of you, you know, at times I, I just read, uh, an article on ESPN about the softball coach at, um, uh, Gaso at Oklahoma.

Right. And, and in there too. And pat summit was like just at Tennessee too, and talked about in, in the research articles. It’s a pattern I see in the [00:42:00] literature that as coaches age, they tend to be less what I call hyper masculine too, less aggressive, less, you know, tough oriented, grinding it out, you know, just hardcore discipline all the time.

And, and what I make from that and from the, the literature and teaching as well. Is that right? Like in sports, especially right. Sports traditionally is a very aggressive hyper-masculine. Relationship with the military, uh, discipline and those sorts of things. It, it it’s really founded in, in, in those aspects, but other other things are not teaching is generally not like that.

But as coaches start to get over the fear of not being respected and not maintaining authority and not being listened to in, in the, and the players obey. They start to think about other better things. What they really should be thinking about, like instruction, relationships, um, you know, what’s going on with this person.

In other contexts, uh, how are they connecting to their [00:43:00] friends and family? How are they doing in school? Uh, there’s other things happening in these people’s lives than, um, just, you know, doing what the coach tells you to do. Um, and following that kind of, um, approach. So I, I find that from coaches, the point was, again, as coaches age, they start to kind of get away from that.

And, and Gaso talked about that in an article, the alumni are like, oh, are you getting soft? Like, Hey, we’re the best team by far in the country right now. Maybe we are getting still called soft, but what a bad label to put on it, what we’re doing is having fun. You know, we’re enjoying it. Like, yeah, we’re still working hard and doing these things, but we don’t have to just work hard.

You know, it’s like strength coaches, right? It’s office gardening, you know, you’re just hanging out in your office so you can, you know, show people that you’re there all the time and we’re all tired and grumpy stop doing it. But damn, it’s hard to change things like that. Now that’s 

Donnie: keen observation. I’ve been coaching for a while now.

it’s getting, getting up there a little bit, but I would totally [00:44:00] agree that that observation I’ve seen over the years, that to your point, that it it’s kind of labeled as soft, but it does, it gets back to probably the more impactful and influential, uh, influential things like, you know, relationship and behavioral change.

And. You know, I think both, you guys have mentioned this throughout the show already. Just kids today. Just don’t know how to think critically. And so that you’re not gonna get them by just barking at ’em and being militant. They’re not gonna learn to think and be prepared for life if you do that. So that’s, that’s very powerful, uh, insight.

Dr. Brian Gearity: Yeah. Just let’s say yelling, focus at somebody, focus, you know, and you’re like, you can yell the outcome and it’ll help you. You know, the other thing too, like, you know, we go back to kids today, you know, our college age, you know, students really, really too. We call ’em kids in a paternalistic sort of way too.

Um, but college age students or adults, um, emerging adults, but [00:45:00] they’ve also seen, you know, wars. They saw the war, they lived through the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, you know? And then after 20 years now finally, right. We pull out and you go, you know, and I’m all for right. I’m all for and, and respect our soldiers.

It’s not about any of that, Joe. It’s it’s. You know, when we’re fighting 20 year, seemingly futile war sometimes too, the students are, you know, college, a students are going, why, why should we listen to you, adults? You guys, you know, we we’re living through tremendous periods of, you know, futile wars where we, we don’t have a clear objective or success, or, you know, we’ve got co exploding college costs.

They’ve got real concerns about things. Yeah. You know, so people are stressed about things. Rightfully so too, you know? Yeah. So what can we do about those things? Yeah, 

Joseph Krawczyk: and I, and I agree, and, and I think, um, it’d be really interesting in this. I’m gonna keep hammering weight at my, my military stuff, but it’d be, it’d be interesting to go up to an athlete and say, we we’ll just kind of look at a time of year, hypothetical your in season, [00:46:00] big match on Saturday.

It’d be interesting to go on like a Wednesday and say, Hey, what do you think we should do today? To the team captain been there four years. This athlete’s been in collegiate athletics for four, maybe five years or maybe six years with the COVID years now. So when athlete’s there for six years, six years of experience in collegiate athletics, ask them what you think they should, they should do that day.

They probably stare at you and be like, uh, what, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: why you asking me? Right. Cause you don’t need the opportunity to actually do things and make decisions because you’re told what to do. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Right. And. I always remember this. I, I, this, this, uh, I won’t mention his name just for, uh, privacy purposes, I guess, but, um, somehow like about three quarters of the way through my first deployment, I’m in South Korea and we’re running a pretty complex live fire range, so pretty high stakes and stuff.

And, um, a lot of movement, a lot of, a lot of. Risky terrain. So we gotta be really careful. But for the first time I, I managed to finally get a couple snipers to, to, um, attach to my platoon. And I was, I was [00:47:00] pumped, but I was thinking the whole time, I’m like, God, I’ve never used snipers. I’ve used machine guns, rockets, mortars, um, you know, additional, additional Marines and, and beefed up my platoon a little bit from another guy’s platoon.

Like we’ve seen, I’ve seen it all except snipers. This is the first time I’ve actually had complete autonomy to employ these two. Um, and these, these are bad dudes. These guys are awesome. Um, and so I look at, I’m like, Hey man, this is what I want to do on the attack. What would you recommend? How should I employ you?

And at first he kind of like looked a little stunned, but he was like, sir, if it was me, I’ll do this, this and this. I was like, all right, let’s go try it. And I’ll never forget the next day he came back to me and he was like, Hey sir, thank you. I was like before. And, uh, he’s like, no one’s ever asked us what we think we should do.

They’ve always had a plan for us. And they always said, I want snipers here, but no one’s ever asked us. And we’ve, we’ve always got these ideas in our head. But we never get to try and employ him. And it’s like, that’s so good. Yeah. I was like, wow. [00:48:00] And I, I mean, I, I was just, I was trying to be honest with myself.

I was just trying not to look like an idiot in front of him, to be honest. Like, I didn’t want to say something dumb and be like, oh yeah, you should go over there. And they’d be like, oh, that’s a bad idea. I was just trying to be humble and, and open with myself here. But yeah, I mean, he, he came up to me and, and told me that I was like, and I took that for the rest of my career.

Like if I ever had a specialty guy. I’ve always asked. ’em like, Hey, what do you, what do you think we should do? And, and if we could somehow get to that point with athletes, man, I feel like you feel like we’d really empower those player led teams that win championships, you know, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: lot serious. I mean, connected to strength conditioning in the sense of right.

We, we like to use and you’ll see strength coaches do this too. Right? We have to use our science and our degrees and our expertise to tell people what to. we, we like to equate it to either medicine or military or something like, right. We have this knowledge and therefore that gives us power to tell you what to do.

And, and it’s tough because we’re also dealing with [00:49:00] multifactorial complex dynamic environments too. And that the athletes have a certain embodied knowledge that they know about. Right? Like my shoulder is killing me today, but you keep wanting me to do these overhead presses or. You know, these, uh, standing presses or whatever it may be, you know, and we have a hard time sometimes with individuality or asking questions and, uh, offering variation and workouts.

Um, I think about the difference between personal trainers and strength coaches in my experience working when I started in 19 years old with Cleveland, you know, that’s back when we had like, um, David Justice and Robbie and, uh, Sandy Amar, Omar viscal, uh, many Ramirez was there still. Um, Bartolo cologne. We had to get, we had players that were, had already all stars.

Multi-year all stars. I’m gonna go in there at 19 years old. I don’t know anything, you know, but even the strength coaches there would, wouldn’t just immediately tell athletes what to do. Um, especially the veterans that had been around now. how much [00:50:00] decision making knowledge of their bodies and other ways of knowing and training do those athletes have, you know, you could question some of that.

And I think that’s a good thing to have, you know, I remember talking to baseball players about, you know, well, Hey, I don’t really know if you’re extra bench pressing today is really gonna help you very much. You know, I think, I think you need to be careful with some of that and I worry that it’s taking away energy and time and, and too much of your chest training.

You’re probably not gonna really help your performance. You know, if, if it’s a beach workout sort of thing, you’re trying to look good for aesthetics. Okay. But maybe take it easy on that. Here’s some other things we could do, but I don’t know. I have to be humble enough. I don’t know. Should we do five sets today or six sets?

65% or 72%, or this is what the velocity meter says in the. You have to make assumptions in practice. It’s not a straightforward just, well, my science is flawless and I put into practice in voila. You know, that’s what you tell the recruits and that’s, that sounds nice. But when it comes down to it, nobody has that sort of.

Lock on knowledge [00:51:00] and, you know, motivating people and creating the culture and the environment and the leaders that you want too. You know, it’s is a lot to juggle and that’s the sort of complexity that I like to get messy with with thinking philosophically, socially, culturally, and psychologically, and, and interdisciplinary too, with biology.

putting that all together in a kind of complex, holistic way, not just in platitudes and mantras and sort of simplicities too. Right? Let’s, let’s be credible. Let’s let’s actually give our field, uh, speak about it more truthfully and talk about it in that sort of way. And the challenges, the contradictions and the tensions, you know, when we have that language to explain it, you go, yeah.

That’s why we need thinking coaches. Anybody can, I mean, just replace it with the app too. Right? We could all just follow the app, you know, three sets of 10. Three sets eight next week, three sets of six. That’s not what we need. That’s not what, you know, people want. That’s not the relationships that people wanna have either.

Joseph Krawczyk: [00:52:00] Yeah. And I think, I think overall, and, and I’m sure a lot of, you know, people who listen to this are, are probably asking like, okay, so we go from here and we, we try to like, You know, let’s open it up a little bit. Like just for, for generalities, let’s open it up. How do we avoid, you know, the spiral of everything just going into chaos?

You know, I think, I think when people first hear this, they just imagine like the strength coach letting go of the reins and, and seeing what happens, you know, it’s, I mean, there’s, there’s gotta be some, and I think it’s to be clear to like listeners, like, I don’t think we’re at all saying, you just gotta let go, but, um, Yeah.

And, and you and I have gone back and forth about this on back in the day on the web. So it’s like, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: um, it’s not a free for Ross. I doesn’t have to be a free for all. It’s not. Yeah. You could have to be guided discovery. And everybody’s, I, I also say play with blocks, go in the corner and just play with blocks.

Like you do whatever you feel like today and you know, here’s your cookie and you’re a good boy. Like. And that saying we’re aware of power. We’re aware of these [00:53:00] disciplinary practices where we observe everybody. We judge ’em, we rank ’em. We examine ’em we test ’em we probe ’em we pro ’em. We do the same thing.

It’s like, Hey, you can be more creative and fluid in your practices too. You can disrupt that stuff. You don’t have to follow the, the canned order of everything. 

Joseph Krawczyk: Yeah. Um, well, in true, in true, uh, for Cadian fashion, we’ve completely gone off the show notes today. So, uh, I think coach, I think we’ll run out of time.

If you wanna, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: this podcast has no discipline. That’s the damn problem with this podcast. There’s no discipline. 

Donnie: all

I like. These are my favorite shows when we kind of get off the script a little bit and get into some good topics. So, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: um, a great point too. I used to shut up cause I’ll just keep talking, but you know, how strict, how rigid are your practice plans? I mean, if they’re super strict and rigid and you gotta get through it, maybe you’re missing out on something.

So it’s a good take. Em, yeah. 

Donnie: Uh, maybe just a couple [00:54:00] things here before we, we, uh, wrap it up. Anything new you’re working on. What can we expect from Dr. Gardy in the future? 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Um, well, I’ll tell you the one thing that stands out right now is, um, well, we got a book chapter in the advanced trans conditioning book.

I’m looking at by Anthony Turner and Paul comfort. Uh, they got their second edition out. So there’s a good chapter in that talking about the ethics of data and, and sports science and the complexities of this. Oh, that’s so intriguing. Yeah. There’s a coaching chapter in there. We, we actually too, we just finished up a writing it now.

Not strength conditioning specific. Although I wanna do a study on this actually in that chapter, we do, uh, because I’m connecting these worlds too. In that chapter, I start to talk about, you know, the deaths, the traumatic deaths and strength conditioning. You know, when we have conditioning deaths, typically in football in the summer, why is that still occurring?

You know, so what is it about our science, our culture that is contributing to the deaths of teenagers and, and college age, um, athletes, uh, and it’s happened in [00:55:00] other sports too, but it’s been traditionally football. Why is that? And what can we do to, to prevent that culturally. Uh, from happening as 

Donnie: well.

Where’s that gonna do again at, were you gonna have that? Dr. Dr. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Deci? Yeah. So this chapter is in the, in the advanced strength conditioning. Okay. Uh, evidence based approach with Anthony Turner and Paul comfort. And 

Donnie: then that’s a, I love that that’s a super intriguing, that’s definitely a hot topic. Um, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: part right.

Big, um, point, right? I mean, how, how does sports build character leaders? If, if we’re, I mean, we’re killing people and. No athletes ever conditioned themselves to death. And, and I was actually wrote about this too, right? Most of the time they’re white coaches with black athletes and there’s no women. So I think from a safety and obviously a gender and race lens, that’s a pretty interesting observation to start to make too.

And, and I, we don’t have to go down that road today. It’s a, it’s one I wanna keep exploring, but why, when we look at coach abuse, I’m getting more into even a coach abuse and maltreatment. And the rates on that, we know that women coaches and [00:56:00] generally abuse athletes at a much less rate than male coaches and that’s across all forms of abuse, that’s sexual, emotional, psychological, and physical abuse and neglect.

Donnie: Well, good stuff. Where can our listeners connect with you? Reach out, follow you. What’s the best way to just stay, stay up with you, 

Dr. Brian Gearity: doc. That sounds like a surveillance mechanism. 

Donnie: It probably is a little bit, honestly, not by me though. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: well, it’s uh, everywhere on social I’m I’m @DrGearity. So just D R G E a R I T Y.

Donnie: Good stuff. So appreciate it, Joe. You got anything else to 

Joseph Krawczyk: add? Dr. G thanks for coming on. Uh, it’s awesome to have you here, cuz I mean, throughout the last few years, like I mentioned, probably like four years, I’ve talked to you a lot. Donny, obviously all good things and then vice versa. And now I finally got you both in the same room, so it’s been, it’s been awesome for me.

I, I had a blast. 

Dr. Brian Gearity: Well, thank you. And I think this is the future in terms of [00:57:00] coach education, I think is the name one of the gonna be the emerging things. So somebody in a staff role or in an athletic department role that starts to kind of connect a lot of the dots and tries to kind of provide some synergy and develop people.

I, I think that sort of human resource coach developer role is another kind of area that’s gonna be emerging and, and sports psychology and sports science are kind of keep pushing it too. So thank y’all for having me. It’s been enjoy it. Yeah, absolutely. 

Donnie: Thank you, Dr. G Joe, thank you for getting the doc on.

This is the team behind the team podcast and doc, we are so. Appreciative of your time expertise, just sharing all your thoughts on where we are in the future. So thank you so much.

Thanks so much for tuning and listening to this episode of the team behind the team podcast for future episodes, go to iTunes. Spotify Google podcast or Stitcher. We definitely want to keep having great guests on a show and [00:58:00] great content. So if you have a moment, please go to iTunes, leave a rating and review and let us know how we’re doing.

I’m Donnie Maib. And thanks so much for tuning in.