Episode 4 – Liberal Arts for Success

[0:00:00 Speaker 1] e Hello and welcome to the sounds of success. My name is Phil Butler, and

[0:00:14 Speaker 2] I’m Christina Buoy. This week, for our fourth episode, we will be talking with Dr Mia Carter on the value of a liberal arts education. So without further ado, let’s get

[0:00:24 Speaker 1] started. Let’s go well, this week we’re excited. Thio have an esteemed guest with us today we have Dr Carter, who is consequently my boss. She hates it when I call her that. But it’s the truth, eh? So I don’t know who is more nervous about this. Interview her or me right now, but a little bit about a little bit about Dr Via Carter. She has been recognized by Texas. Texas is one of the most talented and inspiring professors of beauty. She’s been an English professor on campus, and she’s also the program coordinator for the Mellon Engaged Scholars Initiative. But most importantly for me and Christina, she’s also on the leadership team, for the college is the associate dean of student affairs, and we’re so excited to have you here today. Dr Carter, welcome.

[0:01:12 Speaker 0] You know. Thank you. It’s a great way to wrap up a Friday with you all

[0:01:15 Speaker 1] I think Christina is a next Ra fan of yours. You have helped her get gainful employment here in office. Success. It

[0:01:24 Speaker 0] was a Christina. It’s a perfect theme, actually, because Kristina ended up in this job because of a love of poetry.

[0:01:33 Speaker 2] Yeah, I I had studied a lot of Latin American studies when I was in college, wasn’t really sure what to dio, but I remembered that Dene Carter really likes Pablo Neruda. And so I said Deep Carter, a Pablo Neruda quote when I was asking for a restaurant way. There’s a job in the

[0:01:57 Speaker 0] office of student success and voila!

[0:02:00 Speaker 1] The rest is history. And

[0:02:02 Speaker 2] I I I had nothing to do with the process except that sentence Nothing at all.

[0:02:10 Speaker 1] Yeah, that’s kind of funny. Last week we were talking about faculty relationships, and you just never know, like, if you hadn’t sent that email like, who knows where you would be right now in what you’d be doing, So

[0:02:21 Speaker 2] not a podcast, E. You know. And the really

[0:02:27 Speaker 0] important thing I think about that is that you know students, really, we need to reach out and make those human connections. And, like I never had Christina as a student where we’ve just been fortunate enough to be colleagues working in the student affairs division and, um, in student affairs in in Gebauer. And, you know, I got toe here, her and the other peers doing such a brilliant job of counseling their fellow students and assisting and supporting them. And I was like, We gotta keep we gotta keep Christine if we

[0:03:00 Speaker 2] can eso, it’s It’s just

[0:03:02 Speaker 0] fantastic to have someone from the college who’s nice and generationally fresh.

[0:03:09 Speaker 2] Thank you, E. I always tell my students, you know, make those connections. And when we say connections, we mean you no, actually build a relationship with people, get to know them. And I think that the connections that I built as a student in liberal arts were very organic. They felt very natural to me. It was never forced. You know, I think maybe I talked about this on the podcast before, but I think the most forced thing I did was I would make up questions to go toe office hours with, but eventually it comes pretty natural. And I think that the relationships you build with faculty members and advisers and your peers are so important. And you are just the perfect person to talk about that with today as he associate dean for student affairs. So we’re so excited to have you here.

[0:03:58 Speaker 0] Well, thank you. I’m happy to be here.

[0:04:00 Speaker 1] That’s a good leading, I think to the first topic of conversation is is connecting with with students, you know? Are there any connections you’ve been able to make with students over the years? Dr. Carter, that kind of stand out in your mind and maybe you could tell us a little bit about how those connections got started?

[0:04:16 Speaker 0] Sure. I mean, I always try to start my classes with, just like the reality of what I hope my classroom one will be like like a learning community. So the first thing that they the students have to do is arranged the chairs into a circle on because I want everyone to know everyone’s name. I want everyone to look at each other and really engage with each other. Um, and you know, no, no back row hiding spaces. And it’s there. It’s been fascinating to see on on the first day of class over the years because there will be people that just kind of they’ll they’ll get up and they’ll move their chair into the circle. Um, and then they get out of the class and they drop and like like, I’m getting

[0:04:59 Speaker 2] out of the area. Thio, Really?

[0:05:01 Speaker 0] For me. But the students who stay in the circle really become intellectual community. And, you know, I loved being a student, and I loved school, and I really want to have that space of the classroom be a kind of shared learning space. I do not ever call myself an expert. Yes, yes, I’ve read more about the areas that I’m teaching, and I really invested in some of the kind of questions of my discipline and my specialties. But I feel like I’ve always felt that teaching is an honor, Um, and that getting to spend time with students who are trying to figure out who they are and what matters to them is a very special privilege. Um, so I use in the classroom the kind of doctors, um, credo of, you know, first do no harm and make sure that we have ah, good set of rules in the classroom for like, no rolling eyes no passing notes, no speaking over each other. You know, being responsible for the things that come out of your mouth and, um, and being protective of each other and no kind of shaming. And, uh, you know, I I have been incredibly fortunate to have, like, really crazy students who just you don’t have you survive and learn how Thio, um, navigate that really open kind of seminar style classroom and get and, you know, realize that they’re learning as much from their peers as they are from me. And it’s like when people feel trust in the classroom and feel able to share their opinions and beliefs and their readings and interpretations, it’s super dynamic on bond. That’s always been my goal, even if it’s been a class of, like 40 to teach it seminar style and have everybody looking at each other and and learning how to dialogue and debate and disagree and share interpretations and different readings and perceptions. And so I’ve been really blessed by students who, you know, I’ve had some students like in 445 classes and I was like, You have to go away, you have

[0:07:12 Speaker 2] thio, but you know

[0:07:16 Speaker 0] that is also like super bonus because, um, I have a core of students in the class who, who, you know, are used to that seminar style teaching and are just ready to go and ready to lead. And and so it’s like a It’s a It’s a success that builds upon successes and the success that is created collectively and that that collective spirit is really, really important to me. And I think it It allows people toe wander and ask questions and make mistakes. And I and I always confess my mistakes. You know, I’m I sometimes assigned too much. Sometimes people ask me questions that I don’t know and I’ll in my early career I would. I think I was more insecure about that. And, you know, gradually I said, I don’t I would just feel comfortable going. I don’t know, like, let’s find that out together. Let’s let’s research and see what we can what? Well, you know when we’re back in class on Thursday or whatever what we figured out and it made me more confident to like let go that feeling that I had to be the expert about everything and just really practice actively practice being a learning community together. Andi, I think that’s what’s really great about the liberal arts and humanities and that we’re asking questions about meaning, the value of human existence and community and identity and psychology and history. And, you know, there’s no answers. You know where it’s the questions. It’s the questions that really matter. And so creating a space where those questions can live and, um, and be filtered through so many different points of view and perspectives and cultural experiences and political, you know, ideologies and religious sensibilities. And like, that’s really difficult work. And it doesn’t happen. I mean that the classroom is, in my view, one of the few spaces in our in our current culture where that happens, you know where people with different beliefs and voices and experiences are in a shared space. Talking together on DSO Um, that’s not I think that’s you know, I think that’s why students kind of have stuck around, and I think that’s why a lot of students choose to be liberal arts students. They’re invested in the questions and trying to figure out solutions for the president future.

[0:09:45 Speaker 2] That’s what I loved so much about liberal arts is that you would learn with each other, you would learn from each other the seminar style classes where everyone would do it reading, and then we would come to class and there’d be no lecture, and you would just talk it out. I think that doesn’t really happen in a lot of other colleges outside of liberal arts, and that is something that I found very valuable. But we know that a lot of our listeners are. First year students who maybe are concerned about their major choice may be concerned about, you know, the stigma behind liberal arts. So what do you think? First year students in liberal arts should keep in mind as they begin their collegiate careers. I think

[0:10:28 Speaker 0] one of the most important things is that your curiosity and passion as a student is really important currency and foundation like you might not know, you know, if you’re in the right major or what you want to do with your liberal arts degree. But you you know, most students choose something that to which they’re attracted and, um, and they might not know how that’s going to turn into a job, But I think if you embrace learning and curiosity and passion, you are creating a set of skills that employers and the data and research, um, you know, support this that employers want, like, critical thinkers, analytical thinkers, people who are adaptable, um, people who know how toe work in collaboration with other people. Um, on e think I would say to first year early students like, relax, try

[0:11:27 Speaker 2] like like, three through

[0:11:30 Speaker 0] it. Like, you know, we we don’t have to figure out our future in in one step. But really trust your passions and your curiosities and your commitments, You mean ah, lot of students, you know, I think make the mistake of thinking they have nothing to offer. Well, you’ve You’ve made it to UTC or your super resilient, Um, you you you know, how do get things done and accomplished? Um, you come from a community. I’m sure that that community matters to you and in particular ways, um, those passions can be for the environment or for social justice or for sustainability, for global peace. You know, the things that matter to you, um, as an individual can become the kind of cornerstone of a career and um, you know, there’s just so many great resource is at the college and within programs. I mean, I think another really important thing for young students, freshmen first year students Thio start thinking about early on is the you know, the possibility of participating in in research cohorts. I mean,

[0:12:39 Speaker 2] there’s lots

[0:12:40 Speaker 0] of lots of departments and programs have research opportunities for students and, um and, you know, ah, research opportunity or or an internship or can can turn into, um, a career, you know, almost without the person being fully aware of like, Oh, my gosh, I’m building a career like I’m building these skill sets. My passions have led me in this way my commitment to you know, questions of immigration or or Children’s rights and could make me an advocate for other people. And so, just, like open, open your horizons. And really that can do an appraisal of the things that matter to you as an individual and, um and, you know, kind of piece them together as as you go and, you know, use. The resource is of the university. Advisors are key key key in this for, you know, being just, you know, kind of good mentors and people Thio, you know, active sounding boards and support systems When you are trying to figure out, you know, early in your undergraduate career, what you what you want to do and what what matters most to you.

[0:13:49 Speaker 1] Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about how you know there’s There’s often kind of two types of students, like one who have known they wanted to be a doctor, a lawyer, since they were like, five years old and like the path is pretty well trodden. Christina has got a story about that. First, uh, on then there’s this other bucket of students who are exploring right like they have just got into college and they realize, Oh, wow, social studies is actually like 12 different majors. And I have all these options that I didn’t even know existed before. Eso it’s really important that you explore and and look at all the different things that the university has to offer all the different types of disciplines and liberal arts. You know, I like to call us the college of choice. You know, we have 50 ish majors, and that’s a third of all the majors on

[0:14:35 Speaker 0] campus, right? And, you know, in both of those paths, you know, the path of certainty. And, like, I know I want to be a lawyer. I want no one. I want to be a doctor and the path of exploration. Um, they’re they’re each filled with surprises. You know, sometimes it’s the students, your nose. They want to be a doctor who takes Ah, you know, a class in y a literature or our Children’s literature and and then really figures out, you know that. Oh, I want to serve Children. I want toe, You know, make sure that I wanna be a pediatrician or the student who is on the more explore a tive path who I mean, the thing that I loved about being a student was, you know, taking these very different classes, and all of a sudden, you know, finding the intersections between them

[0:15:21 Speaker 2] and that just

[0:15:22 Speaker 0] became an obsession to me, it was like like the matrix, you know, everything is connected on, but having to think hard about those connections and and how you can make them make sense and be comprehensible in ways that might affect, change or or help you. You know, figure out where your interests intersect and how you can shape them into a life. A life of thinking, life, a career. Um, you know, I think I always and it’s my own bias, but I think liberal arts and humanities students are lifelong students. Eso the beginning is a beginning, and there’s lots of lots of help for kind of thinking about. And they’re just and, you know, part of that size are our scale, and our dimensions that you were just talking about feel is like, there’s so many options. You know? There’s so many ways to to piece together a really distinguished undergraduate, you know, career and and degree that will turn into a professional career.

[0:16:29 Speaker 1] Yeah, yeah, You talked a little bit about, Like how your own education kind of shapes the way you look at the world. Andi, even how you approach the classroom, how does it shape the way that you run student affairs or the way that you interact with your friends and family or run your household? How is how is your own liberal arts experience shaped the way you view the

[0:16:50 Speaker 0] world? Uh huh. There there was a lot of parts of that question,

[0:16:54 Speaker 2] uh, for, uh, well,

[0:16:59 Speaker 0] for my life and, you know, family and personal kind of life. Question. I just I still feel like a student. I’m still a voracious reader. When I was a kid, Andi I was ableto take the bus downtown by myself. I used to get on the bus and go to the public library and just walk the stacks. And I would just walk the stacks and pick out books that looked really interesting to me and read and you like about gangster biographies. Because I love those pictures and the gangster biographies and read about revolutionaries and read about, you know, females, scientists and and that interest in many things has always stayed with me. Um, I you know, I love film, and I’m a film fanatic. I really love music. And I love history. And, you know, I I think, um, as an associate dean, I see students increasingly inclined toward that kind of interdisciplinary t You know that, um e mean if you look at our college, some of the growing majors are sustainability studies. Um h d o human dimensions of organizations, um, and international relations and global studies. And I think it’s interesting generationally that, like here’s, you know, larger and growing groups of students who are interested in big questions. I mean sustainability, the globalization, I mean those air big, big kind of questions about who we are in the world and our relationship to other countries and cultures and and the natural world and the environment. And as an associate dean, I just want to do more to encourage students to get involved with research. And I’m partnering with my fellow associate deans and particularly with Dean. Rob Cross knows, and really trying to make sure that we expand the opportunities for undergraduate research in the college. Um, because that could just be so transformative. I mean, it just can just change your whole life. I mean, writing an honors thesis, which is an opportunity for students in most of our our majors and programs, is fantastic and kind of working with ah couple of faculty members one on one, um, and writing your own, you know, developed research project, that is your honor’s thesis is just a fantastic opportunity. But there’s also lab opportunities and cohort opportunities where you’re kind of working with a research team or in the faculty members lab that you know are increasingly part of the College of Liberal Arts. I mean, I think the digital humanities opportunities are on campus and in our college in particular are growing where, you know, students are learning how toe use data. And you know, the kind of traditional tools of the liberal arts of storytelling and narrative and, you know, contextual ization and, like, how how things relate to one another. So I think, you know, I would love to encourage students and what we’re going to try to do a much better job with our social media interns and our wonderful podcasts, um, of, of letting students know what some of the opportunities are that are available to them to just kind of go out there and and seize opportunities. And as you’re exploring because you might find that thing that is just becomes life defining.

[0:20:30 Speaker 2] Yeah, I just did a presentation with my students about research opportunities at U T. I was like, There’s so many places for you to do research here. All the labs here, all the professors, all the major is all the departments. Here’s what an honors thesis is, and the typical response was I didn’t know that you could do research in liberal arts. I thought research was you know, how to cure cancer as a bio major like push the little beakers around and pouring the chemicals and the goggles and everything. But no, it was very, uh, I wouldn’t say shocking because I went through the same thought process was an undergraduate student. But we as a research university, we just don’t seem thio reach a lot of students the value of a liberal arts research and making those connections and getting a deeper insight into your interest because there’s so many opportunities for students out there. But I think that research made me appreciate liberal arts so much. Maura’s well,

[0:21:37 Speaker 0] yeah, And you know, and that, you know, I do feel that we we and partially I mean, like me as an associate dean of student affairs needs to do a better job of just like disseminating that information about opportunities and having you know it would be great on. And we have another podcast that we hope to launch, called the Liberal Arts Futures in the spring and part of what I want to do on that one is to have students who have had research opportunities talk about those experiences to their fellow students, students who have had their lives transformed by internships or study abroad. Experiences share, share those When, when we can

[0:22:18 Speaker 2] travel again, please you. But,

[0:22:21 Speaker 0] you know, have students really helping to, you know, because I can sit there and say, There’s there’s great opportunities out there. You must go and get them going, you know, get them. But it’s so much more valuable for students to share their own learning experiences with their their peers and their excitement and the, you know, the processes of, you know, even getting ready to go on us, study abroad. Um, you know, I just, um I just think we need to do a much better job of of making those opportunities experiences visible and much more democratic. Um, it’s one of the things that, uh, led me to accept the job. Is Associate Dean. I mean, there’s there’s often, uh, you know, there’s worlds of students that, you know, just there some of those students who like no their path. But, you know, I wanted to talk to our lawyer, and they’re just like they’re out there cultivating every opportunity possible and they, you know, on then their students who, you know, we needed to be doing a much better job and meaning I, um partially of of just, you know, it putting opportunities in front of students and making them aware of the many, many rich avenues that they can explore while they’re here at UT

[0:23:42 Speaker 2] for sure.

[0:23:44 Speaker 1] Yeah, something Christina was just talking about this idea of, like, research existing Onley in laboratories. Um, you know, this is something we don’t spend a lot of time talking about, but it is something that exists. Uh, this cold war out there, uh, stem versus the liberal arts on dare you know, their stereotypes of liberal arts students, their stereotypes of stem students. And, you know, these stereotypes have a really impact on our current liberal arts students. Um, what are your thoughts on this quote unquote Cold war? That’s happening. And what do you What do you tell people who try to pit stem in liberal arts versus each other?

[0:24:21 Speaker 0] I mean, I tell them that they’re wrong.

[0:24:24 Speaker 2] E No, no, no, no. You know, And you

[0:24:30 Speaker 0] know. I mean, in the old days at UT, liberal Arts and CNS College of Natural Sciences were together.

[0:24:39 Speaker 2] Yeah. Yeah. It was called liberal Arts and Sciences, I believe. Yeah.

[0:24:48 Speaker 0] And this is the anniversary, I think the 50th or 25th anniversary of the separation of those two colleges. But, you know, I I do think the the supposed war between stem and and liberal arts is just wrong minded. I think it’s something that is, um, you know, become part of, ah, public and media discourse that is very inaccurate about the kinds of work that is being done in the liberal arts. And and and the most obvious examples of this are, um, you know, specializations like sociology or psychology or economics that have both, you know, the qualitative and quantitative worlds that are are using are using data and statistics and research and storytelling and narrative and historical context and social context and all those things. So I think we you know, we have our own examples within the college off disciplines where those divisions are, you know, they’re they’re artificial, that they’re scholars working in, in both ways, um, in particular fields and, um Yeah, I just You know, I I think it’s a self defeating narrative to think that, you know, all the serious stuff is being done over there in the stem world. You know, uh, the kind of questions of what bigger questions are there than the questions of humanity. Um, you know, and science is part of that. But so is analysis and research and argumentation and, you know, evidence. There’s all kinds of evidence and data in the world. It’s not just, you know, numbers and science. I mean, history is data history is evidence. You know, sociological observations are data and evidence, you know, people’s oral histories. People’s stories are data and evidence. So I I just think that we have toe, you know, actually recognize our own scientific andi really valuable analytical tools that are deeply inherent to the liberal arts and humanities. And there are there are all kinds of data. Um, on DWI, we deserve ourselves as human beings. If we cleave the relationships between the stem world and the liberal arts and the world of liberal arts and humanities, they’re they’re deeply integrated. Um, and so I think that, you know, the war is a fiction and one that,

[0:27:28 Speaker 2] you know, we’re

[0:27:31 Speaker 0] so you know, sometimes you get so invested culturally in these divisions and, um and, you know, I think you know, the universities are in our not utopias, which I know very well, but we we we do have practices of working together that, um, you know, we need to defend and exhibit, um, and and, um uses models for improving society in the world. And I mean, I think that’s what universities. It’s one of the jobs of the universities toe work together to make life better for as many people as possible.

[0:28:11 Speaker 2] That’s that’s something that I also wanted to touch on as well is I feel like a lot of the times in this fictional Cold war between stem students and a liberal arts students comes down to, you know, what are you contributing to this world like, What are you doing? How much money are you making? What are you producing? And that conversation. First of all, I got thoughts, but it’s just so insidious that we that we could Onley value the disciplines that produce a certain thing that makes a certain amount of money which I think is ridiculous because a lot of this education, you know, you’re pretty. You’re all paying the same amount of money around the same amount of money for your degree. And you do have very similar job opportunities. And I’ve noticed, too, that a lot of companies nowadays are looking specifically for liberal arts majors. And because you can teach anyone to do math and to dio quantitative analysis that they would do in stem Aziz, well, it’s just that liberal arts is years and years of cultivating your ability to think critically and work with a team and be adaptable. And so I think that a lot of times liberal arts students feel because I felt this way very insecure about their major choice because it was like, What am I going to do with that degree? You know? What are you going to do with that English degree? That sociology degree, that question just really irks me. So I was wondering what you had to say about that question. What are you going to do with that degree? Yeah, I mean, it’s a

[0:29:55 Speaker 0] tough question, but one less last year and when when I my first year of being associate dean. One of the first events we had was the parents weekend, and it was just this kind of, like, uncanny good opportunity off. All these are there were all these articles coming out about different industries, and, you know, um, businesses that wanted liberal arts and humanity students. So I had this really great collection off clippings. That was kind of was comparing the arc of a career for people in stem and the Ark of the career. For people in liberal liberal arts, I guess

[0:30:32 Speaker 2] who comes out kind of on the top. Even in terms of salary, it’s the liberal liberal. Yeah, it was great to have

[0:30:41 Speaker 0] all these, you know, you know, research articles that were citing the research that I could that I could quote to parents. Um, and and part of it is, you know, that technology changes and shifts, and so you you can reach a a narc of your career in a stem field, and then it’s like the next people who are trained in the new technologies and stuff. And what has what tends to happen for people with liberal arts degrees, um is that they ascend over there over the arc of their career. They movinto you know, managerial positions and move up up the kind of professional ladder while people in stem fields kind of reached there, reach a level in their career and their they just stay there. So I mean, it was it was really interesting Thio after that. Parents, um weekend event. All these parents in work can I have Can you give me those citations? So, you know,

[0:31:38 Speaker 2] I e people,

[0:31:40 Speaker 0] my card and my emails and because they want to support their students passions for liberal arts. But of course, you know, those concerns about paying the rent and having a job afterwards are really for both students and parents. So the parents were so excited Thio here about all the this, you know, research that was being done and kind of comparing the arc of the professional life of the stem student in the liberal arts student. And, you know, I think those things are really important. Um, and I also think the quality of life is really important. It would not. Which is not to say or even imply, that people in stem fields don’t have a high quality that is not my implication at all, But I do think that, you know, um, finding what matters to you. What gives you passion? What enables you to feel like you’re serving others? Those air really important currencies as well, you know,

[0:32:37 Speaker 2] and not

[0:32:38 Speaker 0] just the the salary. And, ah, well lived Life is an achievement and the life given in service to ideas and, um, evolving thoughts and problem solving. I mean, I think those air really incredibly valuable, um, currencies and skills and tools. And we in the liberal arts world just have to do a better job of, of educating the public, really of of why and how those those those skills and qualities, um matter

[0:33:14 Speaker 2] absolutely. I know my dad was listening to this podcast and it’s gonna be a dinner conversation. At some point, eyes gonna be like so deep. Carter. She said that she was giving out citations and business cards. E

[0:33:32 Speaker 0] quite a collection of those articles because I just I want my evidence ready for when you know, people are like, I don’t know what I’m gonna do or there’s You know, what, an English major All they’re gonna do is wait tables like.

[0:33:44 Speaker 2] No, you’re Voila. Here’s

[0:33:48 Speaker 0] some some examples for you.

[0:33:51 Speaker 2] Yes. So we know that you hold many, many titles on campus and that you are incredibly involved with the students that you work with and the students that you teach. What about your students? Inspire you. And what have you learned from them?

[0:34:08 Speaker 0] Oh, I like this question. Um, I have learned so much from my students, and I’ve I’ve learned how to listen much better. Um, one of the great great pleasures of being an English professor is, you know, reading books that really matter to me and that I think I know well and then seeing them through ah, younger generation of people’s eyes and through the complexities off, you know, the present moment, like the words in the book don’t change. But our world is changing and involving and on dso I’ve I’ve really I think I’ve because I think I’ve become a better thinker with students. I think I am a better thinker with students. Um then I am in my my own head. Um, I think I’ve become a much more open minded person because, um, the of the wonderful, quirky people that you meet regularly in in the classroom. And you know, the way that you might make assumptions about someone initially and they just turned out to be so, so, so wrong. And that’s all. That’s a really great instructive experience. Um, I I love teaching. I love I love being in a room, thinking with other people and, um, s o I feel honored. You know, I’ve been really missing. I didn’t think I was. I think I thought I would enjoy, like, this year, of settling into the dean’s job and not teaching. And I’ve so missed the classroom. And so I am teaching next next year, and I’m really looking forward to getting back in the classroom because it just gives me, gives me hope about about change and about, you know, sharing that, that that process of people figuring out what they want to do and who they wanna be. I mean, that’s just the biggest honor, Um, that that a teacher hasn’t in their life. And just like being part of that support network for for a student s Oh, yeah, I’ve just miss. I miss all of it. I’m looking really looking forward to being back in the classroom and I so treasure the the things that students have taught me.

[0:36:28 Speaker 1] What will you be teaching? Out of curiosity,

[0:36:30 Speaker 0] I will be teaching. I’m going to teach a U. G s class that is on represent European representation of America on film in America is kind of in quotation marks because some of them are questionable, you know, questionable interpretations of the United States. And so there that was a really fun class toe put together. And then the other class that I’ll be teaching, I believe, is my major authors, Virginia Woolf one.

[0:36:58 Speaker 2] Ooh, those air. Such amazing options. I can’t wait to recommend them to my students next year. This conversation is really making me miss being in a classroom, not teaching, but learning like actually learning and talking in those seminars. And wow, I miss it so much. Yeah, so do I. So I always

[0:37:20 Speaker 0] had this Ah, lottery fantasy. You know, like, you know, it’s like I don’t really play the lottery, but my husband does every once in a while I was like, if if you know, if we ever hit the lottery, I would I would go back to school You know, I would just be a student and studying. You know, I would take more philosophy. I would take more art history. I would. I love history. I love history. So much on my definitely could have been a history major or professor And, um, that just, you know, being in a university setting is such a rich way. Toe live. Uh, yeah. Yeah.

[0:37:59 Speaker 1] Well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been a great conversation. I hope you’ve enjoyed your time here on the sound of success. Um, we thank you so much for being with us.

[0:38:10 Speaker 2] It was really Thank you so much, Dene Carter.

[0:38:12 Speaker 0] It was lovely toe hang out with both of you. Thanks so much in them. Uh, you know, when we’re back in that in person world, my my door in Gebauer is generally open. And I will, you know, I always tell students or, um, peers and faculty on party. You can, Christina, you can attest to that. My door is open and, you know, feel free to pop in and and, you know, I would just You think it’s really important for students. Toe. Just make that breakthrough of if there’s a professor or instructor that you have, and you just feel in a affinity toward them, like do that awkward thing of making an office hours visit and starting to build a relationship? It’s such a heartbreaking thing toe, you know, here, students say, I want to apply to for this position and I don’t have anyone to write me a letter of recommendation. And that’s not the only important thing about building relationships with professors. It’s just really great to have someone that can, you know, can that can be a mentor and a guide and a sounding board s o like, do that awkward thing visit office hours. Whether they’re, you know, on zoom or in person on DNA. Make make those critical contacts.

[0:39:28 Speaker 2] Yes, yes.

[0:39:30 Speaker 1] Or we say it all the time here, too. It’s nice to hear reinforced time and time again. Have a great rest of your day. And e appreciate you,

[0:39:41 Speaker 2] Dr Carter.

[0:39:42 Speaker 0] It was a great

[0:39:43 Speaker 1] pleasure. Another wonderful conversation with campus expert again, who just happens to be my boss. E o appears to

[0:39:56 Speaker 2] S O. S. We’ve been really looking forward to this episode with Dr Carter for a while. This was one of the first episodes that we came up with when we were just planning this podcast. Because Dr Carter is just the person to talk Thio when it comes to anything liberal arts, she is absolutely a rock star.

[0:40:16 Speaker 1] Yeah, I mean, I wrote down a couple of things that we haven’t really talked yet much about on the podcast, but I think that there are super important and she made me think about him. And one of them is like learning from peers, right? Like we’ve been spending all this time talking about learning from faculty members and campus resource is and doing the best of you can your class. But there’s just so much that you can learn from other students and upper class students. And eventually we’re bringing some some of our mentors to kind of talk about student mentorship and talk more about that. But is this a good reminder? Like there’s so much that you can learn from other students, not just your professors.

[0:40:50 Speaker 2] Yes. That’s why your professors keep putting you into these breakout rooms with random people from your class way. No, it sucks. We know it sucks. But I promise you, you get so much out of it, I would give an arm and a leg to go back to my undergraduate upper division seminar classes. I would do anything to experience that again just because there’s really there’s really nothing like learning collectively, learning as a community, learning together and talking through ideas with each other and picking up new conclusions and expanding your views with each other. It is just such an interesting dynamic that I would do anything to experience again. Like, Wow, I miss being a student so much, and I think that you know this podcast. We really do stress making those connections with your professors and with your advisors and everything. But I think that some of the best connections I formed in college, where connections I made with other students, either my peers in my classes or in my student or is there it’s just so organic. It feels much easier than it is. It’s a lot less intimidating and you have so much to talk about. It’s very relatable. I think that making those peer connections is so, so valuable and it’s just a lot of fun as well So you know, we should definitely try to emphasize learning from our peers and building those connections with each other.

[0:42:23 Speaker 1] Another thing I kind of noted when she was talking about which majors air on the the rise as far as growth and getting bigger And, you know, she mentioned sustainability, international relations and global studies and human dimensions of organizations those air all relatively new majors. You know, I know when I think liberal arts, I think like English history, humanities, philosophy. I don’t necessarily think about those things. Um, but it kind of made me think, like, you know, sustainability is about the future, right? Like globalization is about the future, understanding human organizations. It’s It’s a really futuristic way toe. Look it, you know the world. And, you know, our students and liberal artists are interested in big picture questions. And, you know, history is definitely part of looking backward, but there’s there’s just much looking forward in the college. LaBarre says. There is, you know, understanding the human condition.

[0:43:14 Speaker 2] Yeah, it’s for sure. I think that, you know, um, with stem majors, they’re adapting to all of these technological changes. All of these new discoveries in science and health and everything like that. But with liberal arts, majors were doing those same discoveries. It’s just a different type of discovery were adapting to just as many changes were adapting to changes in how governments relate to each other changes and how humans communicate with each other changes and how organizations are structured, how they’re built. There’s so many things that are changing that need to be looked at from a more humanities and social studies. Focused perspective and liberal arts certainly gives you that ability to do that. And I think that liberal arts gives you the how and the why to a lot of these questions that stem majors may be asking. And so that’s also why we wanted to talk about, you know, stem versus liberal arts. Because a lot of times in a career in careers and in making changes to the world and improving the world and making progress, it’s because liberal arts and stem have so much in common they have to absolutely combine their strengths. There’s so much to be done that one discipline, in one perspective, just cannot get done. And so all majors air very, very valuable because they contribute to some form of knowledge production that we deserve to have and deserve to know.

[0:44:38 Speaker 1] Yeah, Dean Carter talked about, like, even in her own classroom. What makes it so great is the diversity of thought and the diversity of opinion and perspective. And, like, you know, as much as we all love our iPhones and we’re glad that they work and they work the way they were like imagine if every single American was doing stem like we would be robots or, you know, we would just be all about just the math and like, things would be probably pretty rigid and likewise if everyone was a liberal artists and, you know, constantly deconstructing or critically thinking about all systems in place like that could be anarchy to like, The beauty is in the mixture, right? And having, like, all the right ingredients, um, in the right proportion to kind of baked this cake, that is our human experience,

[0:45:25 Speaker 2] for sure, for sure.

[0:45:28 Speaker 1] Um, and, you know, I’m speaking about critical thinking. You know, she talked about how you know the trajectory for liberal arts students. You know, it keeps rising. The longer they get out of college, and I think the critical thinking is probably part of that, right? Like once you acquire that skill, it’s almost like Pandora’s Box. You know, I like to joke whenever, like, you know, I get in quote unquote trouble at work like it’s the college liberal arts fault, like they taught me to think critically and to criticize and really like understand what’s happening from a lot of different angles to try to get a quality outcome. So, uh, you know, I really appreciate the folks that can critically think and, you know, can decipher the difference between fake news and real news and are asking hard questions and not just taking things at face value for

[0:46:19 Speaker 2] sure. And I think that critical thinking comes in handy in so many situations as well. You know, critical thinking isn’t just analyzing a book or analyzing an event. Critical thinking is creativity and how you lied its creativity and how you work with a team. And those were just the tip of the iceberg for the value that liberal arts has and the things that it teaches you, you know, with hard skills. You can learn that, but with soft skills It’s something that you constantly need to work on and have it be at the foundation of how you look at the world around you. And so, you know, we keep saying this, but liberal arts is a wonderful place to get the knowledge that you need to change the world. And you are not at, um you are not at a disadvantage just because you don’t know how to pour chemicals into a beaker or just because you don’t know how to build an app. Those are all things that may be necessary for other types of careers. But they’re not necessary for every single type of career and the skills that you gain in liberal arts are necessary. And every type of career

[0:47:29 Speaker 1] well, that goes back to critical thinking, right? And and if you can, if, or even being a lifelong learner. I know Dene Carter kind of talked about. Being curious is a part of the liberal arts education. So, you know, even if you don’t know how to do those things, you don’t have to learn them in a classroom. You can teach yourself app development. You can teach yourself math like you kind of talked about that during the podcast. You can learn those skills. If you were good at learning, you can teach yourself just about any skill that you need. Thio Accomplish something, E. I think we’re just about out of time for this week. Thanks again for another awesome conversation.

[0:48:04 Speaker 2] We will be back in the next episode with a conversation with our mentors. So you’ll get to hear a lot more from other little art students that are maybe a little bit older and more experienced. They could navigate liberal arts and get the deeps

[0:48:19 Speaker 1] from them. We really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us. Thank you so much until next time. My name is Phil Butler. I’m

[0:48:27 Speaker 2] Christina, but we

[0:48:28 Speaker 1] have a great week