August 8th, 2017 – Second Reading Podcast

[0:00:00 Introduction] Welcome to the second reading podcast from the University of Texas at Austin. The Republicans were in the Democratic Party because there was only one party. Tell people on a regular basis there is still a land of opportunity in America. It’s called Texas. The problem is these departures from the Constitution they have become the norm. At what point must a female senator raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over the male colleagues in the room?

[0:00:35 Jim] And welcome back to the second reading podcast, Jim Henson here, Um, I’m joined by my colleague Josh Blank again. How are you Josh.

[0:00:43 Josh] Very well, thank you.

[0:00:44 Jim] You stay dry, getting to work

[0:00:46 Josh] now. This drives I would have liked.

[0:00:47 Jim] In addition to a not entirely dry Josh Blank. We’re very happy to be joined by Jonathan Tyler, who’s the chief political writer for the Austin American Statesman. And it’s part of that. The author of the first reading Blawg multimedia extravaganza that comes out most mornings at the Austin American Statesman. Jonathan, Thanks for being here. How are you?

[0:01:08 Jonathan] Great. Great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

[0:01:11 Jim] And you said reasonably dry getting here. I did. I feel a little bad that we could Joel Jonathan to get here. We tried to get into come when I was out of town and he couldn’t make it. Declined to some degree. I guess. He got caught up in work he had working, and then the time that we’ve had him come, it’s like about the only time it rains in August. But we’ll take that as a good portent. It’s it’s being it’ll be no surprise that will course return to the specials, the special session that’s now past the halfway point we’ve been talking about that weekend, week out and in this podcast for the last month. But since we’re fortunate enough to have Jonathan with us Ah, I want to start today with a piece that you wrote for The Statesman and yesterday, Sunday paper that at least that’s how I saw it. Ah, based on an interview that you did with Governor Abbott Friday. So you sat down with Governor and you learn anything?

[0:02:08 Jonathan] Yeah, he thinks, Ah, this is going to be a tremendous success. He thinks it’s going to vault the state of Texas further in a conservative direction and as a model for conservative governance. He thinks in 10 days Texas will be a far better place than it is even now. And he already thought it was a pretty terrific place. So I you know, there’s a if you’re watching what’s happening. It seems still kind of confused and uncertain where it’s headed. But he seems extraordinarily upbeat about the destination.

[0:02:43 Jim] One of the things that Josh and I have talked a lot about him here, and we’ve talked about it. Everyone’s kind of talking about it is this notion of you know, how much the governor how much of the governor’s call, how many of those 20 items he has to achieve for this to be success, whatever that means. For some people, success would be merely him not calling another special session. Um, and it struck me that in the conversation there were a couple of he took a couple of different tax on that when he talked to you, at least in the way that you wrote it up. As I write in picking that up,

[0:03:17 Jonathan] Yeah, I mean, it doesn’t entirely parts because he’s not willing to surrender anything given anything, he’s saying he wants all 20. Um that that’s his threshold for success, and there’s no reason why that can’t be done. And he thinks it will be done at the same time he falls back on. At least he wants to see all 20 get getting up or down vote, which obviously is not the same thing. And I think you know, he’s ultimately realistic. And, um, I think he will. He will find ways to, um, accentuate what they did get done. Even if they fall, even if they get a dozen things or 10 things or 14 things.

[0:03:59 Jim] I mean, my rear, that is it. We still don’t know what that minimum threshold is. I mean, this idea that he wants everything to get a vote is an interesting to show a little

[0:04:09 Josh] bit. I mean, you know, not not an unusual shift, but a shift in his position. I mean, served taking kind of the Patrick route of Well, if it gets a vote, I’ll probably I’ll probably get it passed. But even if it doesn’t get a vote, he still gets say, we’ll see the dysfunction, right?

[0:04:24 Jonathan] Yeah. I mean, I think the difference is, I think, Well, it’s It’s obviously the bull is in the house is court to a large degree, though then they have to work out differences between the House and the Senate. I think that’s where the governor plans when taking a very active role, to try to make sure that they don’t end up just things don’t fall apart in the last few days. But, you know, I think Patrick has asserted. And I think the governor also that these are all things that would pass if they got a vote on the House floor. And that’s not It’ll clear? I mean, there there are. There are quite a few things on there that really don’t have support among the the majority of House members, and so they may not get a vote on the House floor, but they would fail if they did

[0:05:14 Jim] certainly vouchers. We’ve seen that. That’s not

[0:05:17 Jonathan] vouchers. I don’t I think the, um the I think even the union check off is not something that because police and firefighter unions are against it and they hold a lot of sway with, um, Republican members

[0:05:33 Josh] were also in the smaller units, right? I mean, all of a sudden, the unions could have a little more of an outsized power in, you know, House Members District versus in a state Senate district or state wide, right?

[0:05:43 Jonathan] Right. And I think even something that seemed like it should have been kind of, Ah, give me the, um, preempting local cellphone ordinances. I mean, I talked to Craig Goldman, who is the sponsor on that, and he said in the house, there are just too many members whose local officials and local police officials said no, and that was persuasive for I mean, the houses is very obviously locally rooted, and, um, they weren’t prepared to support it.

[0:06:16 Josh] If you remember, that debate to I mean that was like that was a specific point of contention during that house debate was to make sure that if there were local entities that had stricter ordinances, that they would stay in place, and that was not necessarily Democrats pushing that discussion. So I

[0:06:29 Jim] recall, you know, I I think part of the politics of this from the beginning to me have been Abbott is in a pretty good position to get to demand some of the basics or expect some of the basic things again. We don’t know exactly where that what the level of basic is obviously the Sunset Bill. Something on property taxes. And beyond that, it seems to me he has a lot of latitude to take what he can get his long as he gets a certain threshold. It’s well less than all 20 things and then blamed the problems on the Legislature, which serves his purpose, because, you know, he can blame it to some degree on. You know, the conservatives will blame it on Strauss, but he can also in amore. Ah, subtle way also blamed some of that on the lieutenant governor, which I don’t think he has any problem doing. I mean, does that make sense to you?

[0:07:28 Jonathan] Yeah. And I think, uh, he finds himself right now, uh, with $41 million in his campaign fund and no serious opposition. So he’s got to do something to maintain the moment of of a campaign. I think that in a special session which began the Tuesday after the Friday he announced for reelection and, um, the 20 for 20 and then assessing blame if necessary, for what did or didn’t happen, including maybe campaigning in Republican primaries gives his camp gives his campaign and that $41 million something to do in the absence of a riel contest.

[0:08:11 Jim] Give us a sense. I want to talk about a couple more things in the interview. But just for the sake of it, what’s your you know, you’ve not. You went over there. You see, I think you kind of were there for a little bit for the interview. Give us a sense of what’s going on in camp. Abbott.

[0:08:26 Jonathan] Well, I think that they were, um I think they were very pleased with how Patrick delivered, uh, quickly on 18 of the 20. Um, I think that they you know, part of the point of the session was kind of preempt any sense that Ah, you know, that Patrick was sort of the driving force of the conservative agenda. So that was accomplished. And he was very, you know, he just sidled up to the governor, put his arm around him and said, It’s it’s us against Strauss. I think the governor early one did say that that, you know, put some pressure on Strauss, saying his priorities are different than ours, which is a softer version of Patrick’s. The man is our enemy. Maybe

[0:09:11 Josh] maybe a Democrat.

[0:09:12 Jonathan] Be a Democrat, certainly a moderate, maybe a liberal. Um, and I think there has been. There was frustration in the governor’s office with the pace of things in the House. And I think Strauss and people in the House say That’s just the pace of the house. That’s the way we do things and

[0:09:31 Jim] also known as too bad.

[0:09:33 Jonathan] Well, yeah, but I mean, I think it’s it’s it’s there’s a degree of institutional loyalty in the house that goes beyond simply ideology, And it’s just kind of this really is the way we do things. And I think that, um, you know, there was the feuding between Patrick and Strauss got worse in the middle of the week with, um, Patrick essentially saying, Strauss refuses to meet with me and Strauss saying, You know what you’re talking about. And the next day the governor had Strauss in, and I think he left that meeting feeling is just just the two of them feeling better about the way things were headed and even though there were things that house does that are off topic and he thinks not Germaine and not productive. I think he left with the feeling that this is going to turn out. Okay,

[0:10:22 Jim] What do you attribute that to?

[0:10:25 Jonathan] Um I attribute that to the fact that I think I think Strauss well, let, with the exception of the so called bathroom Bill, I think Strauss will let the house vote on anything that they are likely to pass. So there’s not gonna be this this sense that, you know, there was some nefarious strategy at work that undermine the agenda. I think that things and again, with the exception of the bathroom bill, which I think is still kind of the rub, I think that there’s there’s no sense that, um, Strauss is up to something that’s going to undermine the governor’s ability to get things that were clearly consensus issues for Republicans in the house.

[0:11:08 Jim] I mean, it strikes me. There’s a sense of, you know, shift. You know that we’re still seeing a lot of this shifting back and forth, you know, depending on what day of the week you’re talking about, who’s who’s on whose side cause Certainly the speaker has something, you know. The speaker can help the governor with keeping the lieutenant governor in his appropriate place. It seemed, you know, it strikes me. And there’s also on underlying conflict here between the Legislature and the governor that is also playing out here. I mean, I think amidst all of this public fighting last week, there were Senate bills referred in the House, and there were house bills referred to committee in the Senate in a sense that the Senate in the House would work these things out between them at a lower. You know, even as you know, the big personalities, if you want to call him that at the top, are fighting with each other.

[0:12:04 Jonathan] Yeah, and I think it’s It’s in all of their benefits in all their interests to have this turn out okay, I don’t think any of them. Well, I don’t know. Patrick might want another session, but certainly Strauss didn’t want this session. I think Abbott is happy with this session. I don’t think he wants another one, and I think that, um, they could all come out of this claiming victory, which is a pretty ideal circumstance

[0:12:32 Jim] for them. OK, given that just to play devil’s advocate, I’ll ask you both this. Any chance of lieutenant governor will at least make some noise this week about holding the Sunset Bills hostage again.

[0:12:45 Josh] That’s what I was about to us, was about to ask, was kind of wondering here, you know that the clock is ticking and there’s 10 days left. As of today,

[0:12:51 Jim] I like put both of your eyebrows that your eyebrows just like furrowed and Jonathan’s raised.

[0:12:57 Josh] Yeah, that’s good. You’re painting a picture for everyone.

[0:13:00 Jim] I’m doing my best.

[0:13:01 Josh] I mean, I was kind of thinking about that, you know, to the extent that you know, I think you know. So Abbott and Strauss meat and Abbott comes out of that feeling a lot better about the process and what’s going on. And to some degree, you know, the one of things that we have been talking about a lot is with the dynamics from the regular session have not really changed as we moved into the special session. If anything, maybe they’ve intensified a little bit, you know, in terms of the between chamber dynamic. I was just thinking about that. I mean, kind of your question, which was, you know, to some degree, did the houses go best defense, you know, least against some of the stuff that the Senate passes that they were less interested in during the regular session is the clock and the clock is still ticking. You know, during the special session, you wonder, and I kind of wonder jams conserves throw to you after this. But you know, to what degree does the house passed its version of some of these measures? Because, I mean, they’re not. They’re certainly not just passing each other’s bills. I mean, that’s clearly

[0:13:56 Jim] No, they’re not

[0:13:57 Josh] right. And so the House passes its version of some of these bills. Does Patrick take the victory and say, You know, assuming the senators are willing to go along with it, which every indication is they’re willing to go along with whatever he’s he wants at this point. Do they take the victories and walk away? Or do they say no? This isn’t conservative enough where this doesn’t really do enough for us and then basically either limit. You know what would be Abbot’s claims of victory in terms of how many items they guy, right? Or, you know, on something as important as the sun’s at ville try to force, you know, another special session.

[0:14:32 Jim] I mean, I think the point would be, you know, do you just sit a replay of what they did before? Because they still haven’t passed the bill.

[0:14:38 Jonathan] Well, I could see that going down to the wire, but I really can’t imagine Patrick attempting to use that again because that, you know, for all the for all the fact that the governor essentially gave Patrick a session that more than you know, that surpassed his his what he was even one thing are asking for He did slap him down about the the fact that they had to have the session. And he put the the onus on the Senate and had this sort of, you know, requirement that they passed there sunset measure before he would let them deal with anything else. So I I just think that would be, um, bad behavior in a way that wouldn’t, you know, wouldn’t path.

[0:15:21 Jim] Here’s my prediction, though. He’s still gonna He’s still gonna suggest you will still see a hint of that. He’ll still gesture in that direction. I could be wrong, but, you know, if he in an effort to move a couple of the things in his direction. He’ll at least faint FBI NT in that in that direction would be my prediction,

[0:15:44 Jonathan] right? And I Yeah, and I’m not saying that it’s gonna happen any time before the last hour’s. But I I just don’t I think what would be but the governor would consider bad would be the sense that they couldn’t manage to get this done right, because that’s the thing he didn’t like about the having to have a special session at all. And unless he’s calling the shots, unless he’s saying we need to come back because you’re not cooperating, I think if he looks like he’s, um, having to come back because of, you know, external forces, that that’s gonna not look good,

[0:16:24 Jim] right? Is that a lot of ways? You know, I mean, we Josh and I have been, you know where I think I talked to you about this. Josh, I’ve been working on this piece on this, that we’re still kind of, you know, turning around. But I mean, I think that is a That’s an interesting way of framing one of the questions we’ve been asking, which is It’s not as if the session the regular session was not Ah very had a lot of very conservative product. It’s not as if there’s about a broad discontent out there among conservative voters. But once you have the sunset bill, not pass the governor. A lot of this has been about the governor asserting leadership and making sure that he remains in the position of preeminence, that he, he and his team believe the governor should be in particularly Visa Vee. Patrick, right? I mean, and so I think it would be a real shot across the bow if Patrick sabotage the whole thing. And so I don’t expect him to do that, but the potential is, I mean, they haven’t passed the bill.

[0:17:25 Josh] It becomes a lot less on, you know, becomes unequivocal. Whose fault it is that Yeah,

[0:17:29 Jim] yeah, no, I think that’s right. I mean, it’s definitely would definitely be a very strong gesture on Patrick’s part, and one that he may well not want to make, because

[0:17:39 Jonathan] I do think that Patrick’s whole play here has been that he and the governor are tick tight right now.

[0:17:48 Jim] What do you call

[0:17:48 Jonathan] that? That’s the Dan Rather is, um, tick tight ticket tight as a tick.

[0:17:52 Jim] Okay, Time like grafted. And, yeah, I’m pondering that metaphor for a moment there that the Dan

[0:18:01 Jonathan] Rather used that the night of the Gore Bush election. It’s It’s a tight tick. Tight.

[0:18:07 Jim] Yeah, I think it’s well, I like. I like the image of tick tight in this, and I’m not going to go any further, but, um, I want to hit one more element of the interview that that was kind of, you know, interesting. And you, I think being a serious person in a policy guy, you put it towards the end of your story.

[0:18:27 Jonathan] If I put the stuff people the public needs to know first,

[0:18:31 Jim] right? And then you put, you know, the governor kind of kind of trash talking. Rick Perry. Trash talking is a little bit of a strong term, but

[0:18:39 Jonathan] well, it was It was

[0:18:41 Josh] rolling

[0:18:42 Jim] e. I think even that’s a little strong. You didn’t

[0:18:45 Jonathan] the circumstance. Where was that? You know, some of the complaints you hear from people? Um, particularly in the houses. You know, Rick Perry used to come on the floor and massage your back and make small talk and just and Rick Perry several houses

[0:19:02 Jim] this year. But you and

[0:19:03 Jonathan] Rick Perry. Rick Perry was lieutenant governor, and Abbott was on the Supreme Court and attorney general and had no previous rial in depth. Understand,

[0:19:15 Jim] somebody doesn’t understand how our stuff work, right?

[0:19:17 Jonathan] And so I said, Was there a learning curve to the governor? And essentially, his answer was because compared to Perrie was that his results have been far superior to Rick Perry’s that he has pushed that he has done things that Perry could only pine for in terms of conservative policy and take a policy.

[0:19:38 Jim] I really liked the pining part I was really

[0:19:40 Jonathan] going on, and he uses twice, he said, Because I said so. I guess Sanctuary cities, which was during the regular session, would be another example. He said, Yeah, not only did he pined for, but he called a special session to get it done and couldn’t get it done. And he pushed. He said. He pushed and he pushed and he pushed. And I said, Well, what was the difference then was at the time, he says, Maybe it was the pusher, right? So that’s

[0:20:02 Jim] so pretty pretty, pretty provocative little little session, I thought,

[0:20:08 Jonathan] Yeah, but you know, I think if if Rick Perry were still on dancing with the Stars, he might take offense. But he’s now secretary of energy and it and

[0:20:17 Jim] by all accounts, bucking t move

[0:20:19 Jonathan] up. Yes, I mean, you know, he’s doing fine,

[0:20:21 Jim] right? So what does he care? He’s gone, dear. He’s got he’s got a You know, I would say parenthetically and you know not to. I don’t want to use all the time on this. It’s funny that you asked him about the learning curve and you got that kind of answered. I did an interview then Richard’s in 2000 to 2003 and asked her Very like I was like their learning curve as governor, and I got a similarly kind of, frankly answer. It’s on, you know, I think governors don’t like it. Don’t like having it suggested that they have anything to learn. She was like, Well, I wouldn’t say there was a learning curve in the way that you seem to mean it, she said. You know that? She went on to say, You know what? I really real and it’s and it’s instantly similar to this. So what I realized is that I didn’t really, quite how much I had to, like pay attention to these legislators like they expected me to call Joe Blow on that she said. Joe blow on the phone and ask him how they were doing and stuff, and I just didn’t do that. It’s not who I waas what she also I said you paid a price for that. And she said, Yeah, death,

[0:21:28 Jonathan] similar of the governor early on, said, You know, they can get this done if if they work hard enough, it’s not like, you know, he suggested that maybe they were

[0:21:37 Jim] e I think he actually used the old world. Okay, so So the Perry thing was interesting. And Josh, I know you were thinking, like, Why? Why do this? Well,

[0:21:47 Josh] yeah. I mean, it’s for me. It’s just one of those, like, really, why are you kicking? You know Rick Perry. I mean, partially cause he’s probably not gonna kick back. He’s got He’s got better things going on right now, but it was a man just like part of me. It’s I instantly kind of go to the Ark of the whole thing. I mean, we’ve, you know, seeing Abbott come into office on the heels of Perry being the longest serving governor in Texas history. You know, basically, having appointed everybody twice over to every, you know, position in state government and the idea that, like you, the and the expectations that that set for Abbott in some ways that were so unrealistic and that I think a lot of people are silicone and we were talking about a lot that a lot of people are still adjusting to. I mean, Patrick is much more of, ah, standard Lieutenant governor, then was David Dewhurst. And, you know, Perry was a pretty atypical governor. And so I mean, I think, you know, it’s hard for me to look in the historical context of Abbott kind of

[0:22:36 Jonathan] right. But I think I think for Abbott he probably hears people pining for Perry all the time, and he’s looking at it going like the States moved to the right and I, you know, moved with it. And so I don’t get credit for the fact that this is a a much more conservative place than it was when Rick Perry was governor.

[0:22:55 Jim] You and I’m sure that they don’t like the narrative that is, You know, that is out there that he is inevitably going to be a little less influential in Perry. And there is the sense that, you know, it’s kind of alluding to before that, you know, one of the things the abbot people are really I think conscious of is making sure that Dan, Patrick, whoever else or the memory of Rick Perry don’t encroach on, you know, the natural space occupied by the governor, and I I’m not surprised that I’m a little, you know, like I was a little surprised that the directness of this, but I’m not surprised that that that’s on their minds,

[0:23:29 Josh] that, you know, you could say I mean one easy. We are easier answer to that question. Might also be to say, Well, if you’re if you’re Abbott, would you rather say I mean, you’re I think you’re your summary of that’s good, which is the state’s move for the to the right. And so if you’re looking at that and trying to, you know, credit claim in some ways, if you’re Abbott, it’s a lot easier to say will compare me to Rick Perry on these a couple of these signature issues than to say who should get the credit for the state moving so far to the right over the last couple of years because actually answering that question, it’s a much more of, ah, you know, I think a much stronger case could be made for Dan Patrick over Greg Abbott. And that’s not really I mean, that as we try to avoid, right?

[0:24:05 Jim] Well, I’ll see your irony and raise it one, which is, You know, one of the things that is interesting about this, I think, is that in terms of the state moving to the right, you know the person who deserves a lot of credit for stepping forward and saying, You know what? All of this stuff about the golden age of Texas, politics and cooperation between parties and reaching across the Isles, um, is over. Given the reality of a Republican Texas and the reality of a conservative Republican primary electorate that is really driving outcomes is Rick Perry. I mean, at the time, you know, as Rick Perry really grew into the office, and certainly after he won in 2010. That was really kind of what everybody realizes that. You know, Perry was more than willing to do things that you know that we’re much Mawr focused on partisan politics than a lot of his predecessors. And it paid off. Speaking of partisanship, let’s move on while we have you. We have about six minutes left to Governor Dan Patrick and his comments on Friday blaming city governments for quote unquote all the problems in the America in in America. So Dan Patrick was on TV and, you know, made a bunch of comments about the cities, and we’ve talked about this contrasting cities with state government, he said. You know, uh, our city’s air still controlled by Democrats? And where do we have all our problems in America? Not at the state level run by Republicans, but in our cities that are mostly controlled by Democrat mayors and Democrats, City Council men and women. That’s where you see liberal policies that’s really see high taxes. And of course, that’s where you see street crime. So a pretty interesting, indirect kind of articulation of this development that we’ve been seen in the last year or so of kind of mobilizing people’s allegiance to the state and setting up this conflict between the state and the cities.

[0:26:11 Jonathan] Yeah, I think you know it’s again. It’s very much of a piece with abbots, whole emphasis on protecting individual rights by curbing local governments and that the state is should be the repository of power. The thing about Dan Patrick is he takes it any sort of adds a shift to it. I mean, he just comes on stronger and makes it Morris against them, even though the governor has been, you know, three correct pretty direct about how it smells better when you leave Austin because you get to sell the freedom. But that’s kind of, you know, that’s kind of beautiful, the smell of freedom. Whereas and Patrick, you get this

[0:26:53 Jim] stuff, you trouble, it’s not beautiful,

[0:26:58 Jonathan] Patrick. It’s really it’s always got to be a little bit more, um, make social. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[0:27:05 Jim] You know, with edgier more pointed and I and I thought that you know, and I don’t think I’ve heard to my recollection the governor be quite, you know, I mean, Governor Abbott has made this about ah, kind of constitutional argument about, you know, state government. There’s a certain philosophical under pointed to anything

[0:27:27 Jonathan] carried Harris and Bear County. So he’s he’s, you know, and he’s also Yeah, I mean, he doesn’t want to be so divisive that he sacrifices some votes in the process.

[0:27:38 Jim] Were, you know, take stand, Patrick, you know, the space of 30 seconds. I think to mention that, you know, here to paint this portrait of dysfunctional, you know, crime ridden cities, which is ah, you know, a different kind of tact rhetorically.

[0:27:55 Josh] Yeah, I was. I mean, you know, there’s not a lot that he can say that would surprise me, you know? I mean, just cause I just think he’s, you know, he’s impartially the talent politician. He’s not afraid to wade into the sort of, you know, controversial areas. But, you know, the the antagonism with what she sort of moved this argument forward is really you know, it’s really pretty notable. And I think you know, this is sort of a further escalation. We talked about this in a previous podcast about, you know, sort of a notable advance in this sort of city versus the state thing was the fact that all the major cities say Fort Worth, you know, got basically banded together and are suing the state over the sanctuary cities law. You know, that’s kind of notable. I mean, using Caesar kind of doing their own thing. I mean, Dallas is kind of different than Austin, obviously. And Houston, Certainly very different El Paso. I mean, these are different places. And the idea that they were kind of being together at this point in saying, you know, this is enough was sort of, you know, the first phase of cement seems like the city’s air really starting to kind of get a little bit sick of this. But then this, to me, was really interesting Just in that, you know, it was such an antagonistic tone. I mean, the philosophical argument. And we’ve sort of had this discussion, which is, you know, Abbot’s not necessarily wrong, right? I mean, you know, the cities are the cities in the county, governments are creations of the state government, and that’s you know, you can’t really deny that that’s true. But to say that basically, the cities where a huge share of Texans choose to live and elect their own representatives and government are somehow the cause of all the problems is like,

[0:29:19 Jim] you know, which is. Austin Mayor Steve Adler has been really trying to take point on this. And, you know, not surprisingly, given that Austin is very often the the rhetorical, you know ah, kind of point of a lot of these objections, particularly on ideological grounds, also pointed out the city’s air also economically very important in a week when the governor has been talking about the Texas miracle. When, um, you know, more large corporate business actors air getting involved in being a little more aggressive for reasons we talked about last week, that having to do with the timing of this special session in this fight over us over some kind of bathroom legislation and taking amore, you know, Cosmopolitan, you know? Ah, position on this. It really does kind of underline. You know how much there’s a political, you know, edge to this. That I think is not is not gonna be easy to resolve in the longer run. I mean, we looked at polling. Our polling is showing that there is a baseline kind of agreement in the general orientation here, Um, a particularly among conservatives and Republicans. Interviews of state versus local government. But

[0:30:31 Jonathan] you you really referred to Ah, Patrick is Nixonian. And I think in this case, you know, he does come from Spiro Agnew country. I mean, he’s from Maryland, and this is reminiscent of of Agnese rhetorical

[0:30:46 Jim] flourishes. Yeah, and you know, the overall, you know, the overall mobile. You know, I’m really struck by the use, obviously the use of crime and and safety and that building of anxiety and all the overtones that go with that thing. I think at this point, I want Oh, well, thank you, Josh. Thanks for coming, Josh. And showing up weekend and week out over the semester. Uh, thanks for making the special effort, Jonathan. We hope if we keep doing that, she’ll come back.

[0:31:16 Jonathan] Thanks very much. I will.

[0:31:17 Jim] Excellent. And with that, we’ll say that students out there good luck wrapping up the end of of the summer session in terms of some of the things we talked about. Jonathan Tie loves peace, was in the Sunday Statesman. It will. You can find it on the on the Internet of statesmen site. It’s called government governor. Abbott predicts special session will create a far better Texas Ah, there’s an article in The Texas Tribune, among other places, on Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick’s comments on city governments. That story ran in the Tribune Friday and was hit hit the hit the Internet on Friday. So with that, thanks for listening and again, good luck finishing up this semester. Second reading Podcast is a production of Texas Politics Project and the Project 2021 Development Studio at the University of Texas at Austin.