July 12th, 2016 – Second Reading Podcast

[0:00:00 Introduction] welcome to the second reading podcast from the University of Texas at Austin. The Republicans were in the Democratic Party because there was only one party chart. Tell people on a regular basis there is still a land of opportunity in America. It’s called Texas. The problem is these departures from the Constitution. They have become the norm. At what point must a female senator raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over the male colleagues in the room on Welcome to the

[0:00:33 Jim] Welcome to the second reading podcast for the week of July 11th. I’m Jim Henson, director of the Texas Politics Project at the University of Texas, and I’m joined by my colleague Josh Blank. Welcome back to town, Josh.

[0:00:44 Joshua] Thank you.

[0:00:44 Jim] This week will talk about the aftermath of the mass shootings in Dallas and how inevitably this aftermath is intersected with politics in the country and especially here today in this state. Now, before we dive into these politics, we should say that our condolences go out to the families of all the victims in Dallas. This was a really horrific incident, and people are still actively coping with it is we record this. The president is in Dallas for the memorial for those who were killed. That said today, we want to think about the political context in Texas of these sad events, though everybody probably knows at least something from the media about this. Let’s start with a recap of these events,

[0:01:25 Joshua] right? I mean, the events in Dallas. Really? Ah, where the where the captain would one would be could describe is a pretty horrific week in American. It started on Tuesday when, in Baton Rouge, police officers responded to a call about a man who was selling CDs outside a convenience store who’d apparently threatened someone with a gun. So two officers responded, You know, an altercation ensued, and out and stirring. Sterling ended up being shot and killed in the ensuing incident, which, you know, as was becoming more increasingly common, this was all captured on videotape. Then, on Wednesday in Minnesota, Philando Castile was shot and killed during ah traffic stop with the immediate aftermath being streamed by the passenger on Facebook.

[0:02:10 Jim] And this is in the area between Minneapolis and ST Paul in Minnesota,

[0:02:13 Joshua] right? And these e I mean, these were, you know, you know, we’re sort of you know we get We keep saying the term, you know, like, uh, we’re getting desensitized to these things. But if you happen, Toto watch. You know, either of these videos I mean, they’re really just their horrific I mean, the horrific events. So then on Thursday, ah, five police officers were shot in Dallas during was widely described as a very peaceful protest of use of these and other incidents by black lives, matters, movement, individuals, other activists. Ah, and what just sounded like utter chaos.

[0:02:46 Jim] Five people killed, seven injured, 77 other police officers injured a couple of civilians as well. Um, and and again, all of that captured in lots of pieces of video and a very chaotic scene in Dallas to say the least,

[0:03:02 Joshua] Right. So those are the of the events that happened last week that lead to, you know, a fair amount of political response. Now we’re gonna focus on this piece, right?

[0:03:11 Jim] Right. And again, you know, there are a lot of different things, you know, both politically non politically you could talk about, but we want to start with By talking about how the political leadership in Texas responded. Governor Abbott was actually out of town. He was in Jackson Hole preparing for the Republican Governors Association meeting, which is Ah, a big political con. Fat for Republican governors are very high profile event When this happened Little side story With Governor Abbott having become injured, he received some burns from some hot water that were apparently pretty severe on his lower legs and feet. But nonetheless, Governor Abbott was notified of this and and flew back to Dallas and wound up making ah pretty widely published a statement on this. Let’s let’s roll that sound and talk a little bit about that.

[0:04:01 (Video) Greg Abbott] Most importantly today, on this day and in the coming days, the primary message is one word, and that is unity. We need to understand that Texas has his own brand of principles that have helped elevate this state to true exceptionalism. Texans need to unite behind those very principles that will continue to elevate Dallas in the state of Texas. One of those principles is respect and reverence for the men and women who wear the uniform. Another is that we, the citizens of this state, I need to play our own active role in ensuring safety and security in our communities, as well as justice and prosperity across the state. When we unite together behind those principles, we will ensure the Texas of tomorrow will be even better than the Texas of today.

[0:05:15 Jim] So Greg Abbott, sounding very gubernatorial. They’re in many ways at the broadest level, calling for unity, invoking Texas citizenship in a way that’s very familiar. People there from Texas, Um, but also probably you signaling, makes any some or subterranean signals a little bit there. Ah, particularly the point about citizen responsibility and citizens participating in the safety environment. Um, let’s just go ahead and then, in contrast that a little bit or compare it to to give it away a little bit, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick went on Fox News the morning after the shootings, and then, and we should preface this by saying, This is a moment when there were still a lot unknown. This this unfolded in Dallas relatively late in the evening. The situation with the actual shooter who was eventually killed by the Dallas Police, um, didn’t really resolve itself until the wee hours of the morning. So

[0:06:15 Joshua] still a lot of misinformation, uncertainty circling about us. So you know e into a lot of the details of this. So he’s responding and not and not from a place of full information,

[0:06:26 Jim] Right? So let’s let’s roll that, Sam from Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick,

[0:06:29 (video) Dan Patrick] all of these officers has been said last night, lost their life, protecting people who were pro testing against them. This has to end. I grew up in a world I’ve been around long enough that we’ve always had bad people. We’ve always had dangerous people. But the general public respected the police to many in the general public who aren’t criminals but have a big mouth are creating situations like we saw last night.

[0:06:53 Jim] Now that was actually is we were pulling those clips out even with the big mouth comment That’s actually one of the Mawr diplomatic elements of of the lieutenant governor’s interview. That warning

[0:07:06 Joshua] Yeah, I mean, the part that was sort of most widely sort of grassed on to by the media was basically that, you know, he blamed the black lives matter movement for the events direct directly. Yeah,

[0:07:19 Jim] and called everybody that was that ran away from the shots as the police were trying to respond hypocrites for, uh, expecting the police to protect them when they were there, protesting in part police about police violence. Right now, I think it’s hard not to listen to those two clips even, you know, even in those short pieces, and not see, at least on the surface for sure. A contrast in tone,

[0:07:44 Joshua] right? And I think, you know, just as, ah, the outset it’s were saying, you know, they’re sort of Ah, the This is what the media sir have latched on to first was sort of, you know, here was Patrick’s immediate response and sort of the bombast, I guess, and the blame and contrast that with abbots, very steady, very calm, kind of, you know, hand and sort of approaching this. And to some degree, you know, this was there’s reasons to look at this way. But this is also part of a larger Arkan narrative, right?

[0:08:11 Jim] Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, I think the initial media response is actually characterized. Abbot’s response is a direct rebuke to Dan Patrick, which doesn’t seem quite right to me,

[0:08:21 Joshua] right? I You know, I I read that and I said, OK, let me go. You look deeper in this and really see, See what? This isn’t The idea was that you know, where’s Patrick was blaming APP. It’s calling for unity, and the idea was that his call for unity was somehow directly informed by Patrick’s response. Which one? I don’t think that, you know, if you kind of say on its face, is the governor of the state and sort of dealing with this tragedy, I think he’s just responding to the situation. Probably think that’s supposed Teoh. But also, I think if you look at you know the specific, if you really start to look deeply, it serve, you know, abbots. Ah, open letter, which is published in the Dallas Morning News.You know, I mean, he does make these reference to those who seek to divide us, and and the media with a lot of the media were quick to say, Oh, this this is a rebuke to Patrick. They take these, they pull out these two, these two clips where Patrick is blaming the black lives matters protesters and Abbott saying, You know, we have toe you know what you know basically protect ourselves from those who seek to divide us and say, Oh, see, he’s talking about Patrick. I’m not really sure that’s what he was talking.

[0:09:22 Jim] I think it really depends on the listener, and I think, no, this is one of these things that we see all the time. And he does go to this year and your question about the wider arc, your that, you know, reporters tend to be looking or if they confined it for some conflict. And in particular, in the case of the governor and the lieutenant governor, we know that there is an expectation that while they’re members of the same party, they are buying as most governors and lieutenant governors have special Texas Pretoria in Texas for attention and for position and for political influence. Now that doesn’t mean they’re at each other’s throats all the time. But there’s an inevitable bit of of contention here. The press is certainly picked up on it, and it’s something that’s very front and center because both Abbott and Patrick were both elected in 2014 after the same people had been in office for a long time. So there is a lot of curiosity among political insiders and observers about how the two are are settling, if you will in these two offices, and that gets played into this. But I you know,

[0:10:27 Joshua] So do you think their responses were actually I mean again, it’s certainly in tone. They were different. Yeah, but in substance, would you say that they were significantly different from each other where they were there? Was there more similarities and differences?

[0:10:40 Jim] You know, I would. I would argue that there probably much more similar than they are different in the sense that they are both aiming to set a tone in terms of the call for unity but without abandoning their underlying beliefs and assumptions about who really deserves pride of place here, if you will. And probably most importantly, the audience is that they’re trying to reach with particular messages. And so I think your point is exactly right in terms of saying, you know, when when Greg Abbott says we need to You know, to paraphrase, not not respond to those who would divide us and leaves it at that. Dan Patrick is in style, and in his ambition, I think much more direct, much more combative. And so his message is also, you know, we need to, you know, not hear the voices of those who would divide us, but he’s gonna call them out and say Exactly who he thinks is the biting. That’s

[0:11:49 Joshua] right, exactly. I mean, you see the difference in a lot of ways. It’s the difference in style between someone who’s a former radio host, which it comes through so clearly on that clip versus someone who’s a former lawyer, judge, attorney general. It’s very careful, in the words, could be parsed a little bit differently. So then so then I don’t think we can agree that you, despite what was written about this evident really rebuke Patrick. I mean, that was sort of, I think, that was a really depress reviewed Patrick, the patron, impressed on the Democratic right. So did Patrick misfire here?

[0:12:19 Jim] Yeah, I think that’s a good question. I know I would have to say, Probably not in the sense that, um, you know, we could talk about public opinion. There’s an audience among his base and in the public for that. And frankly, Dan Patrick is cultivating on image. Or, you knows, everybody says now a brand. And his brand, as you say, is rooted not in traditional lawyerly politics some degree but in amore raw brand of politics that really does reflect his his rise from talk radio, right? So So I was mentioning public opinion. I mean, I I think that’s right. Don’t you think the public opinion if you start drilling down, is out there for over this on audience? Isn’t there an audience for this?

[0:13:05 Joshua] Yeah, definitely. There is. So, you know, we we’ve asked about sort of issues of discrimination. We’ve actually asked specifically about institutions and society, including the police. And and you know, what’s interesting is I mean, there’s some stuff that’s sort of interesting because it’s not interesting in some ways, right? So when we asked

[0:13:21 Jim] about, you have to explain that,

[0:13:22 Joshua] Yeah, I now because it’s because it’s sort of obvious. I mean, it’s when we asked about it was necessarily obvious, but becoming more obvious, and we asked about, you know, to rate you serve your favorability towards institutions in society. Overall the number one and number two institutions according to taxes. This was back in February of 2015 where the military number one viewed favorably by 78% of the Texas registered voters And then the police remember to buy 57%. Now, if you look at white taxes, 81% had a favorable view of the military, 65% of a favorable view. The police. If you look among black Texans, 66% have a favorable view. The military Onley 29% have a favorable view of the police. Now, this is, you know, consistent with through a lot of ways. National attitudes. Right? So around the same time, pew s ah, whether, you know, blacks are treated less fairly than whites by that that that’s the

[0:14:12 Jim] Pew Research Center, a big national research think tank.

[0:14:14 Joshua] Right, So this is Look, this is looking at all Americans. And 50% of white said that blacks are treated less fairly than whites when they’re in their dealings with the police. 84% of black. So this way and so this is, you know, this is the public opinion line this but then, yes, sir, broadly. But then, if we look at who Patrick is is most concerned about and again, this is in Texas, word sort of a non competitive general election environment and the main concern for most Republicans statewide officeholders is whether they’ll get challenging an upcoming primary. You know, among the you know, basically, Texas Republicans, 73% have a favorable view of the police. Among Tea Party Republicans, 70% have available view of the police. Additionally, when we look at, you know, attitudes towards groups in society in the amount of discrimination they face, uh, you know. So if we look at a range of groups Christians, Muslims, whites, blacks, Hispanics, men, women, gays and lesbians, transgender individuals Um, I think that’s everybody that we ask their, You know, maybe I

[0:15:11 Jim] feel like we’re missing somebody, but it’s OK. OK, there are a lot of people on that list. Have it in front of me.

[0:15:16 Joshua] But we asked what was the you know, which is the most discriminated group inside? And this was Ask Justin in June of this year, among AH Republicans in Texas, the number one group was Christians. 40% of Texas Republican Christians of the most discriminate against group 17% Muslims, 13% whites and only 6% say African Americans are the most excrement against group. The monks Tea Party Republicans were served seen as the being so active in Republican primaries, 48% said Christians, 14% White said. Whites Onley 9% said Black. So you know this is to say that you know, when Patrick is Ah, let’s say elevating. You know, an institution like the police. There’s a a wide swath of Texan, especially those who are likely to vote him in a four minute primary who share that opinion. When he you know, let’s say disparages the black lives matters movement as, ah, as a cause of this kind of tragedy. The fact is, is that there? A lot of people who vote from who don’t see blacks is facing the type of discrimination that the black lives matter movement is trying to elevate into the national conversation.

[0:16:19 Jim] Yeah, I think that’s I think that’s exactly right. And we’ll explain. And and I think that, you know, there’s a way. You know, there are ways in which, as you hear the appeals from both Abbott and and and from Dan Patrick, tapping into that well spring of support for an institution like the police, like the military, the sense of law and order, you know, it’s it’s hard to not see that as a winner in Texas and for two different reasons. I mean, I think on one hand there are these deep roots of kind of traditionalism in the political culture in the state. It’s a very socially conservative state that is not quick to be critical of institutions like particularly institutions of law and order, if you will. No matter how much we talk about how much discontent and and criticism of institutions air out there, a lot of that, as those same numbers show reveal, are focused on the federal government. So there’s that piece, and it’s almost like the in the structural foundation of people’s attitudes and in the culture out there, then there’s also things that are much more current. I mean, right now you know, we’re going through a presidential election and there’s a national dialogue going on. You know, you were talking about when we started. How how last week felt so chaotic and so disruptive to people. Um, and you know, I mean, I had, you know, I’ve had people asking all weekend as we’re talking, Does this feel like the sixties again? Is at 1968. I mean, I talked to a reporter at the States, but it was really trying to talk that up. I’m not sure that’s quite right, but that that feeling is really out there and frankly, at the presidential level, which will have occasion to talk about later. Donald Trump is channeling that. I mean Trump tweeted yesterday or the maybe even this morning. This election is a choice between law, order and safety or chaos, crime and violence. I will make America safe again for everyone. So Dan Patrick’s channeling of that that anxiety and that those that those vast differences in attitudes between different groups, racial groups, partisan groups is really out there and in the air and shaping people’s people’s attitudes. And we should, you know, we should really underlined as we as we close out on time. There were a 1,000,000 things we could have talked about in this.

[0:18:45 Joshua] Yeah, you know, you know, I should say if if you know, you’re sort of reacting to these events and it feels it feels chaotic and complicated. I mean, I think that’s because it iss right, you know? And if it seems simple, or if this is seem, you know, this or these incidents events and the reactions to it seem like there about, you know, one thing. It’s probably because you’re looking at you simply. No part of this is serve again, not toe not through another shoot the media here. But part of this is just the nature of cable television, right,

[0:19:11 Jim] Because then you’ll have to borrow one of mine,

[0:19:13 Joshua] right? Gather bigger. Uh huh. The thing is, I mean, we’re coming on here and we’re talking about the political response, and we’ve chosen to toe look a very narrow for focus here because we’re interest is contemporary Texas politics. Right? But that’s only one. The thing we we could have talked about, right, we could have talked about, you know, the relationship between the police and the citizens they protect and serve. We could talk about, you know, the legacies of slavery in this country. We could talk about the criminal justice system and its successes in its failures. Right? We could talk about the psychology of stereotypes, bias and prejudice and an individual, a group or a mass level. We could talk about gun rights and gun control.

[0:19:53 Jim] It’s a big, complicated thing with a bunch of things feet, a bunch of factors feeding into it. And the truth of the matter is, though, people talk about a pause in these things and a pauses to reflect. And he said, there really are any pauses anymore. Now you know, there some people are more restrained than others at given times. And but the velocity and the volume of the things that of people taking to Twitter, taking a Facebook, taking to the various forms of cable, television, toe whatever form of media, social or otherwise, you listen to it just it just floods you with points of view and trying to draw your attention to one thing. I think it’s important for people toe. It’s a kind of media consumption. 101 If somebody seems to really be focusing on one thing, it’s probably for a purpose other than to merely enlighten you,

[0:20:45 Joshua] right? Right? I mean, that’s the thing everybody has, you know, sort of their own cause an angle on these things. And honestly, I mean, the fact is, you know, we could have we could have spoken about any or all of those things, but we could speak about it for hours days, and people have been talking about these things and writing about them for, you know, decades, if not centuries for some of these issues. And so this is, you know, this is an extremely complicated thing that’s hard to understand. But, you know, you sort of take it one block at a time in car to start to see what are the connections between these elements. And and you can start to kind of see that. You know, this is complicated. This isn’t you know, I mean, I think with the I think you’re bringing up Trump is a good point that I’m internally reacting to that tweet and say that, you know, I hadn’t seen it and internally reacting to that tweet, it’s like how Yeah, right, Well, and

[0:21:33 Jim] it’s also for those of us that, you know,

[0:21:35 Joshua] I think this is true. Anybody respond, This isn’t a partisan, you know, sort of how this is just, ah, how, Because this is a really, really complicated set of issues.

[0:21:44 Jim] Yeah, and I’ll play. And I’ll be like Dan Patrick and say how old I am and how much I’ve seen. And you know, it’s one of those instances were. You know that much as I’ve been resisting this 1968 comparison cause I don’t think it’s quite right for a lot of reasons. But the sense of disruption in the sense of law and order versus chaos really is reminiscent of you know, of Richard Nixon in 60 and 68 presidential campaign. The appeal to the silent majority, all of which are things will have a chance to talk about in future podcasts. So ah, with that, we will close it out and we will see you next week. Thanks for listening. Second Reading Podcast is a production of Texas Politics Project and the Project 2021 Development Studio at the University of Texas at Austin.