Ep. 17 – Issues of Race and Representation in Latinx Citizenship: A Conversation with CSRD Graduate Fellows, Jade Vásquez and Cassie Knaff

[0:00:07 Peniel] Welcome to race and democracy. A podcast on the intersection between race, democracy, public policy, social justice and citizenship. Ah, welcome to race in democracy. We are very excited to have two special guests. That’s today, um ah. two doctoral students or graduate students who are part of the CSRD Center for the Study of Race and Democracy Fellows Program. We’ve got Cassie Marie Naff, who was a doctoral candidate in Latin American and Iberian literature and languages in the Department of Spanish and Portuguese here at the University of Texas at Austin and as a CSRD fellow. And also Jade Vasquez or Vasquez, who’s a MA candidate in global policy studies at the LBJ School of Public Affairs and a CS RD fellow as well. And we’re gonna be talking today about the research that they’ve been doing on Latin X citizenship in the United States. Um, first, welcome, Cassie. Jade.

[0:01:16 Cassie] Thank you.

[0:01:16 Jade] Thanks. It’s good to be here. I’m excited to have a conversation together and then hopefully spark a conversation outside of these doors. Um, yeah. Thanks. So I want to

[0:01:27 Peniel] So, I want to dive right in in terms of your research on Latin next citizenship. This is such a big deal in the run up to the 2020 election. Um, we’re in a state of Texas where there is such a huge population. On some levels, we’re ground zero for what people are calling the browning of America. And this idea that we’re gonna have more, um, people of color in the majority as American citizens by sometimes demographers say 2050. I’m gonna ask you when the rial day is, but that’s really elicited a lot of both joy and backlash, This idea that, you know, the country is becoming more and more brown and really the key group voting demographic is going to be Latin X populations. I’ve seen data where it says, um uh, there’s there’s Latin X populations are adding a 1,000,000 new voters a year. You know who are gonna be eligible to vote. So my first question and this, you know, anybody can again get into this is, you know, why is the Latin X population seemingly booming? Wise? It’s so important. Ah, to do research on this population in certain ways. Why did they hold the key in the sense of to the future of American democracy,

[0:02:53 Jade] So I think that, um, most my research focused on Texas. Uh, and right now, Latinos make up 40% of the population, and they will soon become, um, the majority in the state. And I think, Well, my research focused on this term. The sleeping giant, I really wanted Unpack that because it’s talking about, you know, the community as an emerging population. But it’s low political participation, and it neglects to things neglects the citizenship status of Latinos. And it also neglects just voter suppressing back tactics of, um, the black and brown community. And so I think we’ll see a rise in those that are eligible to vote in the Latino population because the Latino population who are citizens are young. And so you think you know, there is some data that is saying that by 2020 the next governor’s race the population, because young voters, um, because of the young people of that represent the Latino community, will be eligible, eligible to vote. We’ll see a rise in just sex it along. Yeah, yeah,

[0:04:06 Cassie] yeah. And, um, I looked up statistics from Pew Research in terms off Hispanic representation in the United States because I think you brought up a good point about paying attention to those who are eligible to vote as well. Um, and so, in terms of currently in 2018 I’ve read that Hispanics comprise about 17% of the US population. And of that, or considering those 17% Hispanics make up 12.8% of the electorate, which has been up from 10% in 2016. So we’ve seen almost 3% increase just in the last two years.

[0:04:42 Peniel] So they’re almost on par with their percentage

[0:04:45 Cassie] of representation in the United States.

[0:04:47 Peniel] In the US,

[0:04:48 Cassie] it’s almost close. Toe 17 Currently, the electorate, they make up 12.8%.

[0:04:53 Peniel] And how does that look for Texas when you think about eligible so different between the population? But what’s the eligible, um um, population of Latino voters in Texas?

[0:05:03 Cassie] Yeah, So, looking at a map, um, the way that Pew does it is those states that are over have at least 25% or more representation, and Texas is one of those, along with New Mexico and California.

[0:05:16 Peniel] And what is our actual voter turnout when you think about Latino versus that representation

[0:05:23 Cassie] Yeah. So something also that’s interesting. About 2008 midterm elections. Where that Hispanics

[0:05:29 Peniel] 1018

[0:05:30 Cassie] 2018 Sorry, not 2008. 2018. Ah, where that we’ve seen a 50% Hispanic increase since. I believe 2016. Um, but that Hispanics comprised 11% of voters. So they were, um, eligibility pretty much on par.

[0:05:48 Peniel] Okay, they were on part. Okay, that’s that. This very interesting cause that actually goes away from what a lot of people are saying. And when we think about voter suppression, how many I’ve heard that there’s upto, um, as many as two million unregistered Latino voters just in the state of Texas alone and about 3/4 of a 1,000,000 African American unregistered voters. Um, have you done any research on that? In terms of the number of, um, Latino voters in Texas or even nationally, who are eligible these air citizens, but who are just not registered to vote?

[0:06:20 Jade] So I personally have been done research on them. That’s something, you know, that something that I would have liked to explore more. Um, I wondered too, about just the education and just access to registration booths. And where are these registration booths? And, um, I think that can have a make huge difference right in high schools, for example, especially because the Latino population is so young that could have a major impact. But I don’t think Texas is a state that’s interested in increased, um, voter participation of communities of color. And

[0:06:54 Peniel] why do you say that? I want you to talk. About what? When you’d say, voter suppression, What specifically is happening? Um, right here in the state of Texas, that would lead one to say, Hey, there’s voter suppression of folks who would be eligible voters, especially communities of color, color, but especially Latino communities.

[0:07:15 Jade] So I would say there are two main things and one is racial gerrymandering, and the second is voter I D. Laws. And so

[0:07:23 Peniel] that’s a big word. Gerrymandering. What do you mean? They tell us,

[0:07:26 Jade] Um, so with racial gerrymandering, there’s two components, right? There’s packing and there’s cracking eso I’ll start with cracking and cracking is taking people of color and cracking them to into as many districts as possible. Where there votes won’t make a difference, and then packing is putting as many African American and Latino voters into as few districts as possible. And so Gerry Meandering supports um, rallies. It’s undermines. The goal of it is the undermine the strength of the minority vote. And, you know, Latinos and communities of color often feel like their vote doesn’t matter. And these tactics further support that idea, right? Because there is not the voters that are determining their legislators, it’s the legislators determining the voters.

[0:08:15 Peniel] So gerrymandering basically either makes the Latino vote in the black vote to diffuse to matter. Or it makes it so concentrated that in the bigger scheme of things, it also doesn’t matter,

[0:08:26 Jade] right? Right.

[0:08:27 Peniel] And so what else? What are the other tactics that happened in terms of voter suppression? Are Latinos victims of the new Texas voter I. D. Laws that have happened since the 2013 Shelby vs Holder Supreme Court decision, which really transformed the Voting Rights Act because there was no more pre clearance from the federal government so local municipalities could change whether it was voter I D or ballot boxes, and they didn’t have to clear it with the Department of Justice anymore. In many states, like North Carolina, like Texas really adopted Very, very strict. Some would say punitive voter i D strategies that seemed designed to again, um, tamped down. Ah, voter participation from people of color as well, including students.

[0:09:14 Jade] Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think, you know, Texas is very strict voter i d laws have effectively disenfranchised Latino voters and they So there’s this Texas civil rights project. And they did this report that said in 2013 an estimated 600,000 registered texted in sections were unable to vote because of the voter i d. Laws, and it’s because they lack sufficient identification. And so

[0:09:42 Peniel] Notre I D. In Texas. What? What is the specific identification that you need? Is it a state licenses it? I know that Texas does Doesn’t accept, say, a University of Texas at Austin license, but they’ll or I D but they’ll accept a gun if you If you if you have a gun Ideas A registered gun owner. So what? What are what are some of the forms of I d that are accepted? And what Why are Why don’t Latinos have access to those forms of I d. S? You think

[0:10:12 Jade] so? I know, For example, student I ds don’t count. Um, you know, make a driver’s license a passport. Um, you know, they’re very specific on what ideas count. And I think not just Latinos, but communities of color. Um, poor, poor people, women, older folks. A lot of these groups don’t have more than one identification, I think really targets, you know, these, like minority, poor minority voters. And so, um, in terms of other ideas that can’t I’m not sure which ones are, but I just know because im coming from New York. And so I think about how strict Ah, you know, when you walk into a polar like all of these different identification that you may have to show in Texas, I

[0:10:56 Cassie] don’t

[0:10:56 Jade] even show my i d in New York. I just say, tell them my address number, and and they trust that I will, uh, will be the on the person voting. And so it’s interesting how many different barriers Texas, um, puts on, you know, on people to vote, while in other states that may have better representation of Latinos and people of color. They don’t have that

[0:11:20 Peniel] while considering all these barriers. But the population of Latino voters in Texas, and this goes out to both of you. What do you think the prospects are for having statewide more Latino elected officials? Because we have, for instance, the former mayor of San Antonio, who Leon Castro is running for president of the United States. But when we think about, we still have never had a Latino senator, Um ah, Latino governor of the entire state. We think about the ledge. It seems to be dominated by more white Anglo, um, elected officials of what’s the what’s the What does it look like in terms of the outlook? Um um, in in the state of Texas for Latinos And then I’m gonna, um, ask about it nationally, too.

[0:12:11 Jade] Okay, um, so who? Leon Costco. I actually really like Julian Castro. I think he, um it’s speaking to issues that typically Democrats are afraid to speak on, especially around immigration, um, and US foreign policy in Latin America. And so because he’s from Texas, he has just I think he’s just more tuned to these issues and because of his, because of who his constituents were when he was mayor. I think he’s more attuned to these issues. I know that he is polling, um, in the general polls, he’s pulling it from 10 in 10th place. Ah, but when they pulled just Latino voters, he’s pulling in fourth place. That that was an NBC pull that I saw today. He

[0:12:54 Peniel] doesn’t have a lot of national recognition, but he’s really well known in Texas. I think, in a way, Bedol Rourke has stolen some of his thunder because of the Senate race. Um, which I guess, on some levels, um, people are upset against about because of this idea of white privilege and how Beto can come in and just sort of reassert some kind of just white political dominance at the very moment you’ve got, um, Latinos like you know who Lian and Joaquin who are who are making waves. But we sort of go back to the same common denominator in terms of white politicians.

[0:13:35 Jade] Well, when you look at who is on the top of the polls right at the top, there, all white men, right,

[0:13:41 Peniel] Biden, Bernie

[0:13:42 Cassie] Yeah, it doesn’t mean that doesn’t surprise

[0:13:45 Jade] me. And it’s also like, who are they polling? Right. And so I also I always wonder, you know, I feel like you should always question Who are the people that they’re selecting in these? And I mean, maybe it’s a good representation of the population. Or maybe it’s not, But I feel like that’s the important question to ask.

[0:14:02 Peniel] Well, that dovetails in the question for both of you. What

[0:14:04 Cassie] do you

[0:14:05 Peniel] think doing this research? What is Latino politics? Because in a way, when we think about this this term on the census, Hispanic and when people talk about Latino, it is an amalgamation of these extraordinarily diverse groups of people, whether they’re from Mexico or Central America or Latin America or the Caribbean, the Outer America, South America. And we think about everywhere from Brazil, toe Argentina in different places. So what? What is Latino mean to you doing this research?

[0:14:38 Cassie] Yeah, so I guess I’ll start. So I was thinking about Is there such thing as ah unquote Latino vote? Um, given the cultural geographical differences that exist, as you mentioned, I would argue yes, if you look at political leanings and voting and public opinion, similar public opinion on important issues that affect all of these groups. Um and so

[0:15:02 Peniel] I want you to disaggregate that Cassie When you say political leanings, what we find?

[0:15:08 Cassie] Yeah. So, uh, the first thing I’m talking about is, ah, historical and current Latino majority that lean towards or identify with the Democratic Party. And these are, um, data taken from the Pew Research Center studies that find that despite, um, geographic differences that there is a similarity in terms of voting during the last elections, the presidential in Congress.

[0:15:32 Peniel] And how much is that identification like? What is it, 60%. Is it? Is it 70%? Is it Is it a huge number? Where is it? Um, you know, just above the majority. And I wonder, too, when we think about that, what are the issues that make Latino voters identify with one party over the other?

[0:15:53 Jade] Well, I think if you just think about the 2016 elections and the percentage of Latinos that voted for Donald Trump Ah, that was under 30%. And I think that Ah, in terms of the Republican Democrat, um, divided, that’s pretty consistent. Eso I would say

[0:16:10 Peniel] about 2/3 of Latinos consistently vote for the Democratic

[0:16:13 Jade] Party, and I think I mean,

[0:16:16 Peniel] is that because of immigration? No, Yes. Is it because of, um, the Democratic Party’s stance on issues of civil rights and racial justice. Um, why do you think that? So

[0:16:27 Cassie] I think in general, I read in a Pew report as well that many Latinos believed that the Democratic Party, as opposed to the Conservative Party, have more of a concern for Latinos in general. Um, and then also that they so, although there might be concerns at the Latino communities, could have differing opinions on such a military initiatives or pro life or pro choice disagreements, but that there united in their concern for immigration, bilingual education and affirmative action.

[0:17:04 Peniel] Very interesting. And when you think about those disagreements, I want to talk about that because I know as early as the first George H. W presidency, there was a riel reaching out on the part of the Republican Party for Latino voters, and certainly George W. Bush, um, claimed proudly to speak some Spanish and, um, um wanted to make real inroads. And there was, ah, at least when you think about the Republican Party, the GOP made the claim and I want to ask both of you, Is this true that at their core Latinos were small C conservatives, meaning that they were pro life. They were culturally conservative. They were pro capitalists and, um, wanted small businesses and entrepreneurship in their communities. They were faith based people. There are very, very religious, with many of them being Christians, many of them being devout, devout Catholics, right? And so from that perspective, the GOP felt that they could make real inroads into that community. I want to know one Is that true? And then my second question would be, well, what happened? Because this is sort of a GOP That wasn’t necessarily attacking this issue of immigration in the same way that it does now.

[0:18:23 Jade] Well, I think that there is certainly a person of the Latino population that will side with Republicans on those issues. Um, but, you know, and this is me speaking for myself and my family were all pretty progressive. And

[0:18:39 Peniel] what’s your background? You were

[0:18:40 Jade] so so my My family is from the Dominican Republic and Costa Rica, and I’m from New York City. And so where it’s is a large Latino population, Um, I would say, you know, I think immigration is an important issue, but it’s not the only issue the Latinos care about right? And it’s not the only issue that Latinos are progressive about and so are have progressive attitudes towards. And so I think, you know, we care about the economy. We care about education, care about immigration. We care about the environment, there’s so many different things. And so you know, it’s it’s it’s concerning that we are always kind of pigeonholed to this a one issue. But even though I’m for me, immigration and immigration reform is very important. But it’s not the only issue I care about. And so, um, I think that’s what Democrats at least should be. You know, looking toward and speaking to Latinos on these issues as well as immigration, because we talk about the working class white voter as if Latinos don’t make up a large percentage of the working class in America. And so you know we should be speaking to them on these issues, always not not just on one issue at one point in time, because it’s convenient.

[0:19:54 Peniel] And why do we think the um, we think about the fact that there was in some ways there still is an outreach by the Republican Party and conservatives for Latino voters. What do you think explains the pivot to such harsh anti immigration language when we think about the current president of the United States and the 2016 election, and also the failed immigration reform bill that the Obama administration I was able to pass in the Senate in 2013 but was unable to pass in the House of Representatives in the in that same year? Why the shift? Because immigration right now nationally is an absolute wedge issue. And in a way you would think that that’s gonna hurt the GOP long term because of your not being able to cater to some Latino voters that I might vote for you. But it seems like that long term strategy has has shifted. And maybe the long term strategy is more voter suppression to this burgeoning Latino giant than any kind of accommodation or reforms that would include immigration reform to then try to cultivate that as an electoral base.

[0:21:07 Cassie] Yeah, I think that could be a strategy because looking at recent data about Hispanics overall, whether they, um what they thought about immigration and, for example, building a wall to keep out undocumented Mexican immigrants. Ah, 76% were not in, um support of that. And so I think that this anti, you know, Central American, Mexican, uh, immigration is kind of backfiring, and it’s bringing more. I’m hoping bringing more people to the pools

[0:21:39 Jade] and there was bipartisan support on, you know, passing immigration reform legislation. It’s just that Donald Trump did not want Teoh, you know, pass any sort of legislation that didn’t include funding for a border wall. And I really think that you know, this anti immigration, um, rhetoric and this border wall I mean, it’s really just a distraction, Um, in, you know, weight escape go. No. Immigrants and Latinos are even know, discuss globalization as a whole. Like, you know, the foreigners are the problem not, You know, this rig system that you know, benefits the rich significantly more than the poor, and so that, I think, is just a distraction.

[0:22:21 Peniel] I want to switch to and shift the policy. When you think about DACA and you think about DARPA and certain things that the Obama administration tried to do through executive order. What can we do? Policy wise, given the constraints that we have in terms of the federal government right now and also just even statewide and locally because I think what’s interesting about the last two years is the way both the rhetoric of the wall but also the actions of, um, immigration ice has really, really impacted. We think about immigration, customs enforcement and this idea of putting um, Latino immigrants in cages and Children and people who have died, people who have gone missing from parents and separated, which has been a huge political crisis but a moral crisis. Yet when you look at the polling data, the support for the president stays pretty consistent, even in spite of these things. What what are some policy? What are some policy vehicles that could be used in the future? And you know one thing, I’ll ask, Do you think the Obama administration dropped the ball by not trying to have comprehensive immigration reform in the 1st 100 days of that administration? We think about 2009 after coming into the White House with almost 70 million votes on. And why not say that immigration reform was a national security issue, that immigration reform was as important as the bailouts. It was as important as saving the banks. We have to decide this issue and vote on this issue on and it was as important as health care. So why not really have a comprehensive immigration build the 1st 100 days?

[0:24:02 Jade] There’s so many good questions. Um OK, so I think, uh, with DACA, um, in Obama, you know, for today, As you know, who was in office now what can they do today? And what they’ve tried to do is turn an executive order into a bill and try toe pass it as legislation through Congress. I think that’s what needs to happen and that, um and they need to in Congress needs to create a pathway to citizenship, especially for dreamers and DACA recipients. Um, and I would say I mean, I think Obama did drop the ball, and, you know, that is not to say that he didn’t have other really important priorities. And I also think it was a political strategy. Ah, and so I think the healthcare was like a really, um, important really. Number one priority on his agenda rate. Ah, and I think that was also a very controversial issue and I think when you think about immigration reform, um, there’s gonna be a backlash if you folks, if you make that a priority, there’s gonna be a backlash for American citizens, you know, who think that there are other, more, much more important issues relating to the economy. And so to prioritise that over everything else, I think could have hurt him in the, um in in the 2012 elections.

[0:25:25 Peniel] But then, didn’t he? He lost the House of Representatives in 2010 because of the tea party, but he also lost because his own people didn’t come out. His own supporters wouldn’t have potentially bolstered his support because the Obama administration lost the House of Representatives in 2010 and then lost the U. S Senate in 2014 which, which made it impossible to put Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court in 2015 16. So I guess one a counterfactual is that perhaps comprehensive immigration reform, along with other packages that were passed, might have actually bolstered support from progressives.

[0:26:03 Jade] Yeah, I mean, I think I don’t know what his political strategy was at the time, uh, and hindsight’s 2020 but, um, you know, if you think about if he was able to pass immigration reform in his 1st 100 days or in his 1st 4 years, that would definitely have more positive implications today for the Democratic Party. Um, if he, you know, if you had it, as we’ve seen in the 2016 elections, um, or even in the 2014 2012 2014 elections as well. Um, but I mean, it’s it’s hard to say. I would have loved for him to pass immigration reform. And I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes and his team shoes. And I was just thinking about like, what? The political strategy? Waas and I just know that that was a NA argument. Um,

[0:26:45 Peniel] well, I think that the political strategy was that this would hurt him. But what you see happened 9 4010 He was her anyway. And even though he passed his healthcare all on party lines, they still lose the House of Representatives. So whatever they did really didn’t work. I mean, the only thing that worked was he was able to get re elected and he was able to pass then a series of executive orders that since got reversed. Um, with the with the new Republican president,

[0:27:14 Cassie] I also think

[0:27:15 Jade] that there is more of an awareness now, um, between among, um young voters among voters of color about the importance of mid term elections. I think they’re you know, there’s always been a larger turnout for presidential races than there have been for governors races. And, um, midterms, Yeah, midterms. You know, senators and things like that. And I think the the 2016 election Ah, you know, it was just like a real shock to people in a tomatoes. Get her act together. And so you can see that in the difference in the 2018 Elections and the Latino vote axing the 2018 elections, according to the Democratic Me See what it was a Democratic, um, Congressional Campaign Committee. The Latino vote in 2018 increased 174%. That’s huge. And so

[0:28:04 Peniel] and there’s there’s groups like Voto Latino and all these turn out. My final question really is about that, Um, what do young Latino voters? What are they interested in? Including potential voters right here in the city of Austin on the campus of University of Texas at Austin. What are the issues that are going to grip them? Which is gonna be really so important to the United States of America? Because if we’re getting a 1,000,000 new 18 year old Latinos a year for the next 10 years, that’s gonna be if they all vote, they’re gonna be one of the most important voting blocs in the country. Um, what are they interested in? What do they want?

[0:28:44 Jade] So I’m going to speak for myself because I would consider myself young Latino voter. Um, I think, you know, care about jobs. We care about debt free college. Ah, we care about climate change. We care about immigration reform. It’s Bessie. You know, when you think about your brothers and sisters and cousins and onto usually and when you think about them and the fact that they’re unable toh vote for some reason. You know, I I empathize and I would want so that’s for me. Why? What? I personally want immigration reform. Um, so I mean for me education, economy, the environment, immigration.

[0:29:21 Peniel] So it’s personal and political. Cassie.

[0:29:23 Cassie] Yeah, I just wanted to add about when we’re talking about groups that are could be eligible in the future for voting. I think we should also talk about those who are eligible for naturalization but that who aren’t naturalizing. So, um, of the Mexican origin immigrants who can naturalized, only 36% are naturalizing. And so I just kind of imagine a future. What would that look like if those who are on a path toward to the student ship are ready if they start, um, or thinking about the barriers that get in the way, which is usually a financial $680 filing fee, for example? Um, And for fingerprints or language is a barrier. You have to be ableto quote, speak, write, read and understand basic English. And so I think also language proficiency is an issue that’s going on. And I’m just curious about if those barriers were lowered or, um, if this committee were able to kind of meet those requirements what that would look like in the future. So I’m just curious about the role that language proficiency, please. And like, um, keeping people away from

[0:30:32 Peniel] and we’re in the ST Barbara Jordan are former rep was the person who extended the voting Rights Act in 1975 and co sponsored that bill, which made it possible to have bilingual, uh, materials in all the the polls in Texas and Southwest parts of the United States. So I think bilingual education is really usually important.

[0:30:56 Jade] I also had some some data that, you know, because I’m new to Texas. I wanted to compare Ah, some of the data that I have from New York and in the U. S. As a whole, um so I focused on US numbers in US Congress, House of Representatives. So Texas currently has 36 seats, and of those seats, only five are held by ah. Latino representatives and Latinos make up 40% of the state population, so that’s about 14% representation, so at a 40% they have 14% representation. Meanwhile, in New York, they have 27 seats, and five of those are held by Latino wraps. Latinos in New York make up 19% of the population, and they also account for about 19% of representation in Congress. And then, in total, there are 46 Latino, Hispanic, um, representatives in Congress in U. S Congress. And so that’s about 8.5% of the total. His, um, the total membership in Congress while, um, in the U. S. Latinos make up 18% of the population. And so there is some disparity there. But it’s pretty agreed is in Texas. And I would say it’s attributed to the voter I d. Jayaraman during, um, tactics that they’ve

[0:32:12 Peniel] How many Latino identified senators do we have? You know,

[0:32:16 Jade] in total, we have believe five in the Senate.

[0:32:20 Peniel] Okay, five in the Senate. And that’s I wonder what the percentage of that is. Well, there’s 100 senators, so that’s only

[0:32:29 Cassie] 5% what

[0:32:30 Peniel] we’re under performing there. Okay, well, um, this has been a great conversation. We’ll leave it there with Jade Vasquez, who’s an m. A candidate in global policy studies at the LBJ School, Public Affairs and Cassie Marine after it was a doctoral candidate in Latin American and Iberian literature and languages in the Department of Spanish and Portuguese here at University of Texas at Austin. And both are graduate fellows at the Centre for the Study of Race and Democracy. We’ve been discussing Latino politics, and really, how do we define ah, Latino politics um What are some of the barriers? Ah, for for Latino citizens really exercising their democratic rights both in the state of Texas and nationally. And really, what is the future of the Browning of America? Gonna? How is that gonna look for? For all of us. Um, thank you. Thank you for joining us here at race in democracy.

[0:33:28 Cassie] Yeah, I think you pleasure.

[0:33:30 Peniel] Thanks for listening to this episode and you can check out related content on Twitter at Peniel Joseph. That’s P-e-n-i-e-l  J-o-s-e-p-h and our Web site, CSRD.LBJ.utexas.edu and the Center for Study of Race and Democracy is on Facebook as well. This podcast was recorded at the Liberal Arts Development Studio at the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Texas at Austin. Thank you.