In 2018 Royce Brooks became executive director of Annie’s List, an organization started in 2003 to recruit, train and support progressive women running for office at both the state and local levels in Texas. Over the past 15 years, the organization has raised more than $15 million to support these candidates and has helped them win more than 100 races, canvassing, holding training sessions, phone banking and driving voters to the polls.
Before joining Annie’s List, Brooks worked with city leaders, researchers and community members to develop a policy agenda addressing inequality in Atlanta as the city’s first-ever chief equity officer. She served as the policy director for Sylvester Turner’s successful campaign for mayor of Houston and as the statewide policy director for Wendy Davis’s 2014 Texas gubernatorial campaign.
Brooks has worked in both houses of Congress, including as a legislative counsel and subcommittee staff director in the United States Senate, and has been a policy analyst with the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and was a legislative assistant for Rep. Martin Frost (D–TX), the former chairman of the U.S. House Democratic Caucus.
Guests
Royce BrooksExecutive Director of Annie’s List
Hosts
Angela EvansDean of the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin
[0:00:00 Speaker 1] This’ll is Policy on Purpose, a podcast produced by the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. Way Take you behind the scenes of policy with the people who help shape it For more. Visit LBJ dot utexas Study. Teoh. Hello,
[0:00:21 Speaker 0] everyone. This is Angela Evans. I’m the dean of the LBJ School and I’m so pleased to welcome today my special guest, Royce Brooks, who’s the director of Annie’s List. And I also want to thank everybody for continuing to listen to our podcast policy and purpose. Eso welcome. I am so pleased that you’re with us today in Can I call you Rice? Please do
[0:00:45 Speaker 2] and thank you for having me. This is really exciting.
[0:00:48 Speaker 0] But when I was reading up about you and I knew you were coming to visit the school, I was amazed at the breath off your experience in terms of the various levels of government did you had experiencing and Natalie the gun, but in cross sector. So if he had nonprofit and then you he had think tank, and then you’ve been working on me girl candidacies on and you’ve been working with Wendy Davis on the gubernatorial canvas ISI and, uh, and now with all of this, it’s just like an amazing rap. You’re just an incredible package and information in experience in terms of, you know, trying to get women to vote and understanding on the kinds of complexities that are involved in a political campaign. Ah, political system. Creating a platform. Ah, going and trying to garner support both in terms of dollars support but in terms of, you know, people voting for you. So I know Angie’s list has been It’s very lucky to have you as the executive director, and, uh, and I know this is a big part of what you do. So what I’d like to talk about today is just Have you talked to us about your what your experiences have shown you consistently is being the challenges for women when they’re trying to get in office, whether it’s a state, local or federal level? Well, first of all,
[0:02:06 Speaker 2] thank you for identifying my career as an impressive breadth of experience. I think my parents for a while we’re wondering, why does she have so many different jobs every couple of years
[0:02:19 Speaker 0] now? But it’s it. It’s wonderful. So It’s very rich, robust background that you haven’t is.
[0:02:24 Speaker 2] It has been really exciting. And I think you know, most of my career really has been in policy roles, and this Annie’s list role is more of a hard political role, and it also feels like, really the culmination of so many things that I have cared about over time. I have come to observe in various policy opportunities that you can. You can make a difference marginally right you can. You can help implement a new policy. You can sort of help design a new program if you are lucky. If you’re less lucky, maybe you’re just defending against some bad things. But if you really want a chance at helping to make systemic change, you have to change who holds power. And so that’s really where the electoral part connects with the larger progressive project and really the the Texas and the America in the world that we’re trying to build. Annie’s list was founded 15 years ago. Teoh help recruit and train and elect women toe office, and it was founded Really, because there are barriers to entry for women seeking Teoh run. There are different ways that women make the decision to run from men. You know, research sort of shows this. Men tend to run ambition, Aly. They look inside their own soul and decide, You know, this is what I want to do. And women tend to use a more relation ALS model for deciding whether to run, meaning that they look outside themselves. They look at their family obligations, their community obligations there, work obligations, their networks and in a way, start from a premise of almost talking themselves out of running. Women also tend to be less frequently recruited or sort of asked, Have you thought about running and that, um, it starts all the way back in childhood.
[0:05:07 Speaker 0] Have you seen a difference, though? Now, are you seeing with the newer generation that are those holding air those characteristics holding? Are you starting to see Maybe 1/3 reason, which is I have to get in because I have to still consider my family and my networks in my community, my obligations. But it’s a must, because what I see around me is just not what I really want our Children to grow into. Some just warn you if you’re seeing in your own way and jets.
[0:05:33 Speaker 2] And that’s exactly right that once women traditionally have gone down the list of reasons why they might not run in the in the end, they are running because they have to because they feel really compelled. And in this moment in particular, we’re seeing so many women who really just feel like they have to be in the game. And so we’ve seen record numbers of women approaching us. I know our allies have have seen the same during the most recent electoral cycle. We actually trained more than 1000 women. How to run, which is a record for us and I think, really is indicative of what I hope is a lasting trend.
[0:06:30 Speaker 0] You know, I think some people also don’t think about the attendant. Consequence of this is that women who go through the training and Angie’s list form a network in and of themselves, you know, being together and supporting each other as running candidates that this is they have AH network to go to. And I think that’s really an important consequence of being part of the Andes list. It’s a good consequence,
[0:06:53 Speaker 2] absolutely, and we see that we see are are candidates sort of forming circles with each other are former We trained not only people who are looking to potentially run, but also people who are looking to serve on campaign staff. And we’ve seen our staff Trainees are campaign school participants. I’m sort of formed their own really close networks with each other. Even our interns stay in touch with each other and kind of have a fun time. So, you know, people like to talk about the, um, progressive infrastructure or lack thereof here in Texas. And I really like to think of the people that Annie’s list has touched the candidates. We’ve helped Teoh run on the people we’ve helped to elect the women we’ve trained theme the interns. We’ve had the donor base. We have as sort of a shadow progressive infrastructure for the state.
[0:08:00 Speaker 0] Well, one of the things I was thinking about to when we were, you know, singing about what to ask you what the folks were listening to this might be thinking about is when people expect when women are running that their platform is gonna be very social, you know, socially oriented rather than economic or international. or whatever. But is there going to have to run on all of those? So do you see part of what your role is is to get them comfortable talking in these different areas or using those areas is giving them more strength to talk about those areas where people who are in the electorate are going to see them as an international leader or, you know, like a on economic economic leader rhythm. That’s gonna be family issues on Lee. I think sometimes we tend to categorize women is being like, Oh, well, they’re gonna have the soft issues and they’re not gonna be able to deal with the hard issues. So talk to us a little bit about how you you Banesto’s for the women who come to you. Sure, so I think
[0:08:55 Speaker 2] for us it’s less about the issues and getting the women sort of providing them, helping them build expertise in those issues, um, and instead helping them Teoh present their best and most authoritative Selves on and and really be seen as the leaders that they are a woman who raises her hand and decides to run for office, and a man who raises his hand and says he wants to run. There’s no logical reason why one might expect the Man toe have some sort of brilliant expertise in international affairs that the woman doesn’t have right. But people tend to listen to men in a different way. So one of the trainings that we actually provide for our endorsed candidates is executive presence, coaching, media training, those kinds of things that can help someone to feel comfortable speaking with authority on and and presenting themselves as as a real leader.
[0:10:18 Speaker 0] E. I think that’s really important because I think in many cases, the expectation there’s a fear. I mean, you’re gonna go out and you’re going to be out there, and everything that you are is going to be public, and how are you going to handle that? And so having some experiences say, number one, you’re going to experience this Number two. You won’t be the first or the last person to experience, and here are some tools that you can use to keep this very you know, So you’re you have you protect your own psyching in person, but at the same time you project that I think that’s a that’s a very important thing for any candidate, but particularly from women. Uh, you know, cause I see a difference in the graduate students here. The difference between the way the women approaching issue in the way the young men approached there. Just ISS. I mean, I can’t categorize. It is like generalizing Everybody’s is with fund. Women are like, you know, But there’s a fundamental the way they think, and it’s wonderful the way they think. So it’s just celebrating that and how you take that wonderful gift and move it into an environment. That he hasn’t always been friendly or to those kinds of approaches, I think, is really an important aspect of preparing women. Absolutely so I have another question, though, and this is a question that comes back to me. I was part of Leadership America many, many years ago, and it started in Texas, uh, by women who wanted to grow leaders in Texas and grew nationally, and I was wanted in the first national class and Ann Richards, I came to speak to us and one of the things that she said that just always stuck with me, she said. You know, women don’t support women. Uh, and they don’t support them in a way financially. So women. So she asked offices, How many of you bought a new pair of shoes in the last six months? So, you know, raised her hand says, Once you take that money and contribute, I love
[0:12:06 Speaker 2] it. I’m going Teoh Use that are
[0:12:08 Speaker 0] fundraisers because you know you don’t think about is a contributor as somebody who’s contributing to a campaign for women. That’s a very important part of women’s supporting women. So I thought that was an interesting perspective that she had, that women tend not to do that. They tend not to get into the political stream from a financial perspective. So if you see more of that from actual donors and you know women actually stepping up and trying to contribute to this absolutely while in Annie’s
[0:12:38 Speaker 2] List really started as a donor circle of women, which made it unique in the space 15 years ago, you know, women were really kind of not stepping up in these kinds of numbers. And with this level of intention to help elect other women. Eso Annie’s list, I think, really is a leader in that way. But I think that’s, um, everybody. If you’re serious about politics and making change, donating is one of the most important things that you can dio, and people can do it at every level. I think that one of the myths that we’ve seen kind of dissipating over the last several electoral cycles is that Onley major donors can make a difference or have a voice right. We’ve seen sort of the triumph of the $5 donors with some of the national candidates recently, and and so I think that there is a growing awareness of the importance of that type of engagement. But, you know, it’s also the case that many of our candidates tend to be heavily out raised by their male opponents. Um and so it’s It’s not only money that makes a difference, you know, when we are heavily out raised and yet we win, it’s you know, it’s because of the work that we’re putting in, going out knocking doors, leveraging personal networks, social networks, you know there’s there’s more to it than money, but money is is, you know, for better or worse and, uh,
[0:14:37 Speaker 0] support. I mean, he gives some capacity to those types of things that you want to do. I mean, obviously, Ah, lot of this is on the backbone of volunteers or agencies like you’re your own. But money does help get the at capacity. So the idea that even if you’re a small donor, it makes a difference. You know, it will help somebody. I’d like to shift a little bit just if I gave you a crystal ball and I don’t want to put you on the spot. But if you’re looking at over the next two years, what do you see as some of growing out of the what happened in the election in 18? What kind of trends are you seeing for 2020? Are you seeing anything different or things that we should be aware of are looking to are things that you you can also think about answering the question of how you’re going to be adjusting in terms of new people who will be coming to now for the 2020 election? I think that
[0:15:26 Speaker 2] there are a few trends that we’re seeing. I think that one is just the remarkable opportunity for progressive change here in Texas on guy Think that 2018 really bore that out. You know, people like to say Texas is a red state, it’s it’s going to stay red. We’ve been chasing sort of turning it blue for years now on bare skeptics who just don’t believe that that is going to happen. But you know, Beto at the top of the ticket in 18 cut Hillary Clinton’s vote. Ah, margin in half, basically from 2016. And Hillary had cut Obama’s vote margin, basically in half from 2012 s o. You know, we’re seeing that shift take place, and part of what’s driving it is increased voter participation. An increased number of voters being engaged being informed, feeling compelled, Teoh engage in this process. So in Texas in 2018 almost as many people voted in this midterm election as voted in the 2012 presidential election, it’s just an incredible sort of increase of people coming out and voting, and almost all of that increases in sort of progressive communities and strongholds. So I think that’s one of the trends that we’re excited to see. And that’s one of the reasons why Angie’s list is really prioritizing. Trying to flip control of the state House. We, as as Democrats, are nine seats down from control. But Democrats actually flipped 12 seats in 2018. Um, and so the opportunity, you know, really seems to be there. And that’s what will be focusing on. I think a potential issue that lots of people will be trying to figure out how to deal with is the end of straight ticket voting. This past 2018 general election was the last election with straight to get voting in Texas. Eso There will be some determination of trying to figure out how to communicate the change to voters and make sure that people know what to expect so that they feel comfortable when it’s time to vote. But I think the rial import of that change is going to ultimately be in making some of these down ballot races a lot more expensive. Yeah, because people who have traditionally run on slates together will now have to run individual campaigns and build up their own name. I d. It’s going to make the of political marketplace that much more crowded, and it’s going to you take that much more money to be able to kind of make your name stand out for voters.
[0:19:09 Speaker 0] And but it’s also and on the other hand, is gonna help people really be informed about individual candidates gonna force that kind of scrutiny. We hope. I hope. I really hope that that’s what I do
[0:19:20 Speaker 2] Hope that that’s the case. But I think that, um, you know, people people will need to be prepared to understand the the ways that this is different
[0:19:28 Speaker 0] now. Well, I always think, you know, people who don’t vote I don’t understand. They had it all in terms of being an American and not voting, uh, and also having to work to be informed to vote. I mean, that’s just something that thistles what The country was built on an informed citizenry to vote, and this is something we have to come back to. I mean, this is so important. And a lot of people get lazy about it or they the excuse. I get disenfranchised. Oh, there isn’t any candidate that I want to fold for, So I’m not gonna vote. It’s like there’s just it is so appalling to me. But seriously, it really is. And I think that’s something where everybody like your, you know, your organization to is getting people involved in understanding who’s putting themselves, who’s putting themselves in the arena, Who’s taking the a chance to move in and why are they doing it? And what do they have to offer and why should or should we not support their person? That’s that’s a really important consequence of what you’re doing. Well,
[0:20:23 Speaker 2] I I do agree, and I think that everybody should vote.
[0:20:27 Speaker 0] Yes, I
[0:20:28 Speaker 2] am. And I, you know, was raised with that ethic. But I do. I think that for a lot of people who don’t vote, um, it is it is not just a matter of sort of personal failing. If I’m a candidate and I have not given a voter a reason to vote, if I have not made a compelling argument for what the stakes are for, why it matters to them. If I haven’t reached out directly to them, then that’s on me. If
[0:21:06 Speaker 0] that’s on you, that’s right, settles on you. And then that’s the consequence. And the voting booth, Um, I want to talk a little bit about you. OK, so why what’s kept you motivated to stay in the political arena? What What drives you. What is the energy and what kind of, uh, energy do you get back by being in this in this political arena? You know, because it’s you’ve been in the policy arena in many ways. But now you’re into like this, this world of politics, which is how do you get people who will actually think carefully about policy and create policy? That’s good for the country. But we have to get through. The Scotland called the political Process, and you’ve been in it and then stayed in it in its end, have grown in it and have contributed to it. So what drives you to do that? I think it’s, I think it’s my
[0:21:57 Speaker 2] family. It’s my upbringing. I grew up in a very politically active, uh, politically engaged, socially engaged family, and so that was modeled for me by my parents by my grandparent’s growing up there was there was no thought of not being engaged in the fight to better our communities and to help people and to try to lift people up where you can, um, and so, in a way, the moment that were in now where so many people have sort of realized. Ah, you know, in the last couple of years I have to get involved in this fight. Thes are dire times. Welcome to the fight. It is the same site that my parents were in that I watched them as a child engaging in every day. It’s the same fight that my grand parents were in when I would hear the stories about civil rights, protests and, um, activities. It’s It’s always been the same fight, and either you’re in it or you’re not. I was never not going to be in it.
[0:23:31 Speaker 0] So it’s in your DNA. It’s something. Yeah, that’s great. So I just want to thank you so much for its for taking the time to, you know, talk with me and share your ideas. And both in terms of what the direction of the Chinese list in its contributions toe our policy communities as well as your own personal story. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
[0:23:54 Speaker 2] Thank you for having me. This was
[0:23:55 Speaker 1] fun. Thistles. Policy on Purpose, a podcast produced by the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. We take you behind the scenes of policy with the people who help shape it. To learn more, visit LBJ dot utexas dot edu and follow us on Twitter or Facebook at the LBJ School. Thank you for listening