Episode 02: Adam Ivy – Buffalo, Texas, the home of the Bisons.

[00:00:00] Andrew: Schooling is one of the few experiences majority of Americans share. Yet how much do we really know what goes on behind the scene? And what’s up with cafeteria lunches? I team up with developmental psychologist David Yeager to explore the personal side of education by speaking with superintendents.

I’m Andrew Kim, and I consider myself an accidental superintendent for the past 15 years. So grab your lunch money. And welcome to lunch duty.

Adam Ivy. I appreciate you joining me today. Now, as you and I were just talking, I came into this profession accidentally. I have a great mentor. He’s, gosh, I think 80 years younger today, around that age group. And, but he, his name is Dr. Ron Kalos and he’s, he’s the one that got me into it.

And so, as a result of that, I just, I didn’t even know what a superintendent did to be quite honest with you, you know, when I first started out in Dallas ISD years ago, but, enough about me there now, where’d you grow up?

[00:01:10] Adam: So I grew up in, Lufkin, Texas. I went to school at Pollock central, which is a three, a school district.

And I think it’s the only three school district in the state that still doesn’t have football. Is that right? I think so. How’s that possible? I don’t know, but it’s, it’s, they still don’t have it. So you didn’t play football. I did not. I did not. I played basketball. I tried to play baseball a little bit, but I was not very good at it, but I’m six, eight.

So basketball was my thing and, I loved it. and so I went to school at Stephen F. Austin, met my wife there. She’s from Nacogdoches. and, strangely enough, I was going to go to law school and I actually did go to law school for about two weeks, moved to Houston and everything and, got there and came home, and told my wife, you know, I’m not gonna be a lawyer and I already have my teaching certificate and so I went to work in at Johnston Middle School in Houston ISD as a teacher and a coach there and Spent a year there and then went out to Katie for eight years.

[00:02:04] Andrew: Now. You told me a great story about your basketball coach Yeah, that kind of was he the first guy who encouraged you to get into

[00:02:11] Adam: this? Well, okay So strangely enough my high school basketball coach Was there was Wes Jones Wes I want to say Two years after I graduated from high school, I found out that he had gone into, administration.

He had moved over into a different district to be a principal. And I remember calling and talking to him and saying, Why are you doing this? And I thought you loved being a coach and I’m going to be a coach and I would never want to be a principal. And he just sort of laughed and he said, Well, you know, sometimes things change and, you know, life changes and, and I said, I’m not ever doing that.

And so I went in, I coached for eight, you know, but actually I think. I was in Katie, I guess, maybe about five years. Basketball? yes, coaching basketball. So you didn’t coach football? Oh, you did coach it? Oh yeah, I did. Actually, I learned to love football. you know, Katie, of course, they have a great, you know, tradition of excellence at Katie High School, and so I coached at a junior high there, but then I learned a lot about it, and I really love football.

I love coaching football.but, about five years into that prospect, one of my,my principal then,called me in, you know, and, and he wasn’t, you know, he was a different kind of principal, you know, he’s the guy you don’t want to make eye contact with in the hallway, old school guy, even the, even the teachers didn’t want to talk to him.

and, and he said, he said, Ivy, he said, you ever want to. You know, retire comfortably and, and, not have to worry. You need to get out of teaching and go be a principal. And I said, I think he’s, and he didn’t think much of, of, of some of the people in the profession, I don’t think, but he said, I think you can handle it.

What a great recruitment line. So he was my, he was our principal. Now the assistant principal there was a man named Lacey Freeman, who. was very encouraging, you know, so he really kind of helped me, through some of that and encouraged me to, to, to go through it. So I went and got the master’s degree.

Was

[00:04:00] Andrew: that something that you recall he said that was different than perhaps the principle that you was, you were, you felt

[00:04:05] Adam: a lot more, you know, I think it was, it was a. A confidence thing. I think, you know, that someone like him thought that, that I could do this, that I, that I had what it took to do this.

and, and, you know, he, he told me that, you know, he saw good things in me. and then right there at the end of my, my, time in Katie, Mr. Freeman had come to Buffalo, Texas to be the junior high principal. I see. And he called me and said, Hey, we have a high school assistant principal’s job open. Is that, is that how you came?

That’s how I came to Buffalo the first time. Yeah. Yes. Is that right? Yeah. So I made the move up here and Mr. Freeman, helped me. I wasn’t here very long and I went over, I spent some time in Lufkin, the Lufkin area. I went back and worked at Central where I went to high school as a high school principal there.

and then, so somewhere along in that. My time at Central,my, one of my other mentors, the principal of the superintendent who was there at the time, Dr. Alan Garner, you know, he said, Adam, I said, he said, you need to, you need to go back and get your superintendency. And I kept saying, I don’t want to be a superintendent.

I have no desire to do that. I’m, I’m good right here. you know, this is where I grew up. I can, you know, I can just stay right here. You know, it’s

[00:05:11] Andrew: interesting. You said something, I’ve, I’ve heard this before, a lot of former coaches moved into administration. Yes. Is that something you still see

[00:05:18] Adam: today? I would say, I see a lot of coaches who show that they know how to communicate with people.

They know how to communicate with kids and build relationships. and they have a knack for figuring out how to get things done. and so I would tell you, in a minute I’ll tell you. You know why I think that is so important and how me being a coach was, was kind of one of the things that helped me along.

So, I’ve seen a lot of other people make great, great principles. I mean, people who’ve been ag teachers and band directors and just classroom teachers. Yeah. But I would say way more than half were probably coaches. Yeah. And I don’t have that data to show it, but I would say. Just in my perspective, that’s kind of what it looks like.

Well, what are you going to say

[00:06:03] Andrew: though, in a minute

[00:06:04] Adam: that you, well, well, let me, let me finish this part of this. Dr. Garner told me, he said, you need to go do this. And so I said, okay, well I, I decided I’ll go ahead and get it. There are two other guys at the school. I was, we’re working on that also. So that’s, that’s okay.

We can drive, ride to class together. And we did that, went back to SFA. This is back when you started to actually go to class show up on Saturday. Right. Yes. Didn’t have no online classes at all, ever. And then. All of a sudden, you know, this, I start applying for jobs. Of course, in the meantime, I also did a stint over at LaTexo high school where I was a high school principal and I was the assistant superintendent.

Well, I didn’t really, they didn’t really need an assistant superintendent at a two way school, but my good friend Don Elson had said, hey, come over here and do this job for me. I’ll make you the assistant superintendent. Nice! And so I started applying for jobs and I applied for Thorndale. That’s, that’s where I went after, and I didn’t know anybody west of I 45.

I mean, nobody, so I thought there’s no way I’m getting this job. No interview. They called me for an interview. I went in. It was just a hit right from the beginning. They called me back and I got the job. And so what I will tell you is that my first day of sitting in that chair, I was sitting in there. I shut the door.

I’m like, Oh my God, what have I done? I don’t know how to do this job. I don’t know. What am I doing? And I remembered, you know, remember the, the, the advice I’d gotten is you don’t have to know how to do it all. You just have to know how to find out what to do. And so. And I started calling my, my mentors, you know, Lance was actually, my mentor, superintendent Lance Johnson.

He was my mentor superintendent, so many years ago. A little scary, by the

[00:07:37] Andrew: way, Lance Johnson was the one you called, but go ahead. Yeah.

[00:07:40] Adam: But anyway, I had a whole network of people that I called, you know, other superintendents, you know, people who’ve been doing it for years. I’ve got, you know,

[00:07:47] Andrew: because there’s not a book about this.

There’s not, there’s

[00:07:50] Adam: not, right? No. I mean, I learned something new. every hour, probably that first year as a superintendent. And since then I probably still learn something new almost every day or at least once a week I learned something new I didn’t know. and now, you know, I like the fact that I can be that, that for other people, you know, and, and so I have.

I have collegial relationships that I have developed over the years. I went to the Thompson Leadership Academy with Dr. Bob Thompson. And so I would and I got a shout out to Dr. Rich Elsasser. He’s the region director at Region 13 and Mike Holland at Region 6. Both of those two guys have been integral in my success.

I call those guys still almost every every week or so. I call one or the other of those two guys. And it’s the same

[00:08:36] Andrew: thing with me, Adam, my mentor, Dr. Gail Elsasser. I I had lunch with him the other day. And you know, one thing he told me years ago was that when you stop learning, that’s when you probably need to get out of the job, do yourself a favor and others.

And that’s when you want to probably want to say, Hey, no mass. Once again, that’s a, that’s a high school, a bell here. Cause we’re at Buffalo high school here, home of the bisons. why bisons,

[00:09:01] Adam: by the way? you know, honestly. I just know that this area of Texas used to be prevalent with bison back in, you know, the 1700s, 1800s.

And so I honestly don’t know who chose it. It’s just, you know, that’s what they chose, years ago. there used to be a, a rancher around here that had some bison that he kept, but I actually don’t think there is any, any left now. I think one of them’s hanging on the wall down there.

[00:09:25] Andrew: You know, Adam, as I was thinking about, What you’re talking about, Thorndale, then you coming over here to Buffalo.

Yes. What’s, what was the transition like for you? I mean, you know, obviously you had to, you probably knew some folks that you were here before.

[00:09:38] Adam: Yes, I did. And, and here’s what happened with me and I’ve been in Thorndale seven years and, you know, I really enjoyed Thorndale. I thought it was a great place.

Yeah, it’s a great community. It’s, it’s one of those places that. They have a lot of success, in a lot of different things. and so I was, I was able to be exposed to a whole lot of different things, being close to Austin also, you know, got to be exposed to a lot of legislative issues and, had some good mentorship in that area.

And honestly, you know, my parents. I really was hoping to get closer to them. They live in Lufkin still, and I tried to get them to move over there, but they just weren’t interested in that. They’ve got other mother, my sisters in Lufkin and she’s got little ones and they were not going to move away from them.

And so I started looking, you know, I need to, I need to make a move and get closer. And so I, I did some applying about a year ago now and started interviewing. And then when Mr. Freeman, who was here, I saw him at the task of midwinter and he said, Hey, I’m retiring. I thought right then I said, I’m going to apply for that.

And, and, you know, I did a lot of praying about that. My wife and I believe, you know, we have to have to seek God’s will. Anytime we, we, you know, make a move like this. And so we, we did that and, decided this was the move to make. And the people in Thorndale were supportive. They were, they understood completely because they bit, they all.

You know, are very family oriented and they almost all have family there. And so they understand the importance of that. And so I was three and a half hours away from my parents and, and they’re, you know, they’re getting a little older. And so then I got, I got to, had to get back closer. When you

[00:11:09] Andrew: moved over, was there a new challenges, new aspects of the job that, you, you know, cause seven years at Dorndale, you probably were thinking like, Hey, maybe I got to hang on this.

And then all of a sudden you got a new

[00:11:20] Adam: situation. So the difference is the first day on the job here, I didn’t sit in my office and go, I don’t know how to do this job. I didn’t do that. and I think that, you know, that, that experience was, has been invaluable, you know, just the everyday things. And there’s different things, you know, what I did learn coming in is can we have some different processes and different procedures, you know, different, you know, different ways of, of doing a purchase order to different ways of, of, you know, Tracking data, you know, things like that.

And so, you know, I came in knowing that this was a good district. I didn’t, I didn’t need to make over, you know, overarching changes to start with. And so I got to know people, you know, I sat there, I met with people, I looked at processes and procedures. Sometimes I would say, hey, Let’s talk about this. I think that, you know, there’s a better way to do this, but I try not to make wholesale changes on things that were working.

and so that way I could build that relationship rather than come in and be somebody that’s that’s just nitpicking everything and tearing things apart. So, You know, we’ve made a few changes here and there. Things that I think, you know, could, could have been better, but it was in good shape. You know, it was, and that’s part of the reason I decided to come here is I really wasn’t looking to overhaul, overhaul a place.

And this just fit all my boxes. and, it’s been great. So far, I

[00:12:35] Andrew: met one of your assistant superintendents here and I’m sure you have other staff members in your, what’s known as a cabinet, right? Or you’re a senior level folks. how do you go about interacting with that group and how was it? Coming from Dorndale to here, you know, I mean, how did you establish some level of communication or

[00:12:54] Adam: well for us?

And so I guess the first thing is and I’ve kind of always been this way. I, I, I don’t go to my office till about 9 every morning. I really don’t. so you’re at a golf course. Yeah, that’s it. I’ve been, I’ve been joking about it. So they wouldn’t even know if I was just staying at home in the morning or playing golf.

but no, I like to be out on campus and talk to people. And so I would say for the most part, I probably talked to every one of my principals every day. you know, with very few exceptions. And then, then my assistant would Superintendent Tina is she’s just fantastic. She’s invaluable. She she really is awesome with, you know, with data with, I mean, she just takes on a lot of things.

I mean, half the times, you know, I might have had a parent come by to see me and she’ll have intercepted them and they’ve taken care of it before I even know about it. Right. And so I think opening those lines of communication, you know, we try to meet every two weeks with my and I call it just my leadership team.

Sure. as a formal meeting. and so I have, on my But one of the dry erase boards in my office, I have a, the spot just for leadership team meetings. And anybody can come write a topic on there if they’re, if they’re, if they come to my office and they know we need to talk about something, they’ll, I mean, they’ll tell me about it, but they can go and write something on there.

And, that way we always have that ability to, to do it. And I thought about using a, you know, just a Google doc for that, which we use for so many things, but something different about, about using that method. So that, you know. They know they can come in and do that, and it’s open to them. Is that something you

[00:14:20] Andrew: learned, or you just

[00:14:21] Adam: kind of did it on your own, or did you copy that somewhere?

Honestly, I don’t remember. You know, it’s probably something I’ve learned over the years. It’s probably something that someone has told me, but I just want them to feel empowered to do that and to talk to me about things. I think that the couple of times in my career as a superintendent when I’ve gotten in trouble is when people didn’t feel like they could talk to me.

About

[00:14:43] Andrew: issues. How do you overcome that though? You know, because, you know, you, you do, you do hold a position that is considered to be top accessible political position in the community. Right? Absolutely. And so how do you make yourself? I mean, obviously you’re out and about. I mean, you’re right now. Not just in a suit, you’re wearing the, the bison, her, you know, shirt, nice shirt and all that.

And walking around here with tennis shoes on. So maybe, I mean, you look very accessible, but I’m wondering, how do you go about managing that

[00:15:13] Adam: work? know. I think it’s, it’s about being there. It’s about. visible, talking to people, getting to know people, you know, learning about them, remembering those things, you know, you know, someone had a grandmother that’s sick, you know, just remembering asking about those things and developing those relationships.

So people can see you as a person and not just. You know, the, the hired gun that comes in to run the district and that just goes for the whole community as well. I try to go to ballgames. I, you know, it’s hard. That’s the hardest thing is going to a new community is learning all the people’s names and some people I already knew.

So I had a little bit of an advantage here versus somewhere I’ve never been before. That’s right. But I’ll tell you the secret. it’s even harder when you don’t have kids in school. when you have kids, they are your gateway to meeting people and learning names. It’s true. Because. They talk to you about things.

Yeah. You know, you know their friends, you know their friend’s, siblings, you know, their friend’s parents. and so man, it was easier. Yeah, it’s a little harder. . My, both my kids have graduated already and that, that’s cool. Yeah. You’re not at the

[00:16:14] Andrew: little league games anymore and, you know, things like that.

Yeah. So it’s a little bit more challenging. The birthday parties maybe, you know, get to meet some other folks in that way. Yeah. So, but,

[00:16:22] Adam: but we did miss out on that one, the people, the, the kids here. So I came in the first thing last year and I started trying to get to know kids. you know, right away. And so when I did some interviews with, with some of the kids that do are, you know, things like this, they do podcasts and, and so I did some interviews and talk to those kids, and then just over the course of the year, I just try to stop and talk whenever I can.

I’m like, so I’m in the hallways, so they know who I am. Hi, Mr. Ivy. you know, especially elementary kids. Yeah. If they see you at dollar general or, you know, butcher brothers, you know, it’s always, Hey, there’s mr, you know, you’re like a superhero to those kids. So, but I would say this, if you ever need to have a good day, go to elementary school, walk down the hallway and they’ll make you feel it’s

[00:17:02] Andrew: awesome.

Great. I, I loved, I did all three levels in my career and. I did love the high school kids because, the conversation you can have with them is fantastic. I thought, and they knew, some ways we could always get better, better than perhaps I ever did. So I always relied on that quite a bit of the high school students there.

because you’re walking around to schools every morning. my guess is that you’ve been around the cafeteria in the lunchroom, Oh, and you know, this, this podcast is called lunch duty for a reason. Yeah. what’s your best lunch duty story that you got going on these days?

[00:17:37] Adam: You have. Okay. So I will tell you this and my, my sort of an, I mean, overarching, well, there’s some stories I won’t tell on here.

Things that I’ve seen at lunch. Yeah. Me too.

[00:17:46] Andrew: I got one too. There’s

[00:17:47] Adam: somebody sit up on the table and did something they shouldn’t have done, but some video, so, I would say I’m a middle school guy. So are you really? I am. So if you told me today you have to go back and be a principal, I’d say I’ll take middle school.

It’s

[00:18:00] Andrew: funny you say that because I would do a high school. I did middle school and I can’t. Middle school was the

[00:18:04] Adam: hardest one for really? I don’t know what it is. Most of my career. I taught junior high. Yeah. And so I just identify with those kids best. Even now I coach UL impromptu speaking, I don’t know.

for sixth, seventh and eighth graders every year. I always have ever since I became a principal and I kept going, that’s great as superintendent. And so I just liked that level. So here’s what I would tell you about lunch duty. I am immune to a noisy cafeteria. You know, sometimes I’ll be sitting with somebody in the cafeteria and they’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s so loud.

I don’t even notice it because when you’ve been in it so long, I mean, I carry it. Well, I still have here. I’ll show you. I just, I never stopped this, but I carry a whistle. You carry a whistle. You know, that’s the best way to get their attention real quick in the cafeteria. Just one quick blow. And you still do that?

I do. Well, I haven’t done it much this year. Yeah. Well, you got principles to do it. Occasionally, I’ll go in and sub in for a junior high PE class or something. So that’s why I keep the whistle. And I enjoy doing that. But I think that You know, I just, the noise just doesn’t bother me.

[00:19:09] Andrew: That’s interesting.

You say that it’s interesting. You said, I guess I never thought about that. Cause you’re right. It is noisy. You know what I mean? It is a quite a bit. but I never thought about that. And boy, my middle school experience as a principal of middle school at Dallas ISD sometime ago, great place. Love, love J.

All along middle school, but Oh boy. Lunch duty was really difficult. I

[00:19:29] Adam: thought, you know, I just always felt like that’s the one time a day that get. To be a little loud, you know, as long as they’re, they’re sitting there eating, you know, not running around and acting crazy. I, you know, I’m okay with a little noise.

Yeah.

[00:19:42] Andrew: Yeah. I always say that there’s good noise and bad noise. Yes. And I think good administrators know the difference between good noise and bad

[00:19:50] Adam: noise. And you can tell, you can hear it. It’s an escalation. You can hear it. It’s either, it’s either it gets real quiet or it gets real loud in one spot. And you know, something happened or somebody knows something’s about to happen.

And so yes, you can target in on that stuff.

[00:20:05] Andrew: Yeah. I’ve talked about that quite a bit. I gotta tell you, it’s, interesting as Lance told me about you and, just by being here talking with your teacher, your principal, you have a really great situation here. It’s really good that I got to meet with you, and I appreciate it very much for that.

any, you know, there’s a lot of new folks who, Coach is now trying to figure out they should be a superintendent or not. What advice would you have about this profession now?

[00:20:29] Adam: A lot of people would say they don’t want to do it because they want to, you know, they want to stay in the role they’re in, they’re comfortable in the role they’re in, or, you know, they want to be around the kids, I would say.

Overall, you, you can continue to affect the lives of kids and, and you can affect the lives of more kids, in this role. but you just have, you’ve got, once you get into it, you got to find a way. You got to be intentional about being around the kids and the teachers on a daily basis. Yeah. If you, if you, you know, sit in your office all day, every day, no matter how busy you are and you never connect with those kids.

And they don’t know who you are. Yeah. that won’t go well for you in the community. It won’t go, go with you for kids, for teachers. Yep. you gotta do those things, get out there and, and interact. Yep.

[00:21:15] Andrew: Yep. I like the word intentional. I think sometimes we overuse it, but that’s exactly the key word. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, I appreciate it very much. It was really great to meet you. And I certainly want to come back and, man, I got to also thank your, high school principal for giving me one of these, baseball hats and I appreciate it very much. Thanks.

[00:21:32] Adam: very

[00:21:32] Andrew: much. Thank you. Lunch duty is produced by David Yeager and me, Andrew Kim.

We thank the latest development studio and the Texas behavioral science and policy institute. At the University of Texas at Austin for their support. Thank you for listening and please join us for our next episode of Lunch Duty.