As we kick off Black History Month, Dr. Adrien Sebro (Assistant Professor in the Dept. of Radio, Television, & Film at UT Austin) sits down to talk with Dr. Jones about the power of representation, One Night in Miami, and the importance of media that reflects what America looks like.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
As we kick off Black History Month, Dr. Adrien Sebro (Assistant Professor in the Dept. of Radio, Television, & Film at UT Austin) sits down to talk with Dr. Jones about the power of representation, One Night in Miami, and the importance of media that reflects what America looks like.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"http:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/24\/2021\/02\/2021-02-04_L-I-V-E_Adrian-Sebro_master.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"","filesize":"52.3M","filesize_raw":"54838316","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":"","itunes_episode_number":"","itunes_title":"","itunes_season_number":"","itunes_episode_type":""},"tags":[607,608,606],"series":[2],"class_list":{"0":"post-205","1":"podcast","2":"type-podcast","3":"status-publish","5":"tag-black-history-month","6":"tag-dr-adrien-sebro","7":"tag-representation-in-film","8":"series-live","9":"entry"},"acf":{"related_episodes":"","hosts":[{"ID":68,"post_author":"39","post_date":"2020-07-20 20:29:28","post_date_gmt":"2020-07-20 20:29:28","post_content":"","post_title":"Dr. Brandon Jones","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"dr-brandon-jones","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2020-07-20 20:33:17","post_modified_gmt":"2020-07-20 20:33:17","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"http:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/?post_type=speaker&p=68","menu_order":0,"post_type":"speaker","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw"}],"guests":[{"ID":211,"post_author":"23","post_date":"2021-02-04 22:24:29","post_date_gmt":"2021-02-04 22:24:29","post_content":"\n
Adrien Sebro scholarship specializes in critical media studies at the intersections of television, film, comedy, gender, and African Diaspora studies. Dr. Sebro writes and teaches on U.S. Black television sitcoms, television history, filmmakers of the African Diaspora, and the media's role in initiating social change and activism. In the classroom, he aims to instruct his students on the roles, responsibilities, and powers (social and political) of media over time as a reflection of its temporal moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
He is currently writing his first book manuscript, To Scratch and Survive: Hustle Economics, Gender Politics, and Creative Dissent at Tandem Productions<\/em>, which explores a production history and the representation of racial identity formation in the all-Black cast sitcoms of Tandem Productions: Sanford and Son<\/em> (1972-1977), Good Times <\/em>(1974-1979), and The Jeffersons<\/em> (1975-1985).<\/p>\n","post_title":"Dr. Adrien Sebro","post_excerpt":"","post_status":"publish","comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","post_password":"","post_name":"dr-adrien-sebro","to_ping":"","pinged":"","post_modified":"2021-02-04 22:24:29","post_modified_gmt":"2021-02-04 22:24:29","post_content_filtered":"","post_parent":0,"guid":"http:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/?post_type=speaker&p=211","menu_order":0,"post_type":"speaker","post_mime_type":"","comment_count":"0","filter":"raw"}],"Transcript":" [0:00:09 Speaker 0] welcome to live leadership, innovation, ventures and entrepreneurship.<\/p>\n [0:00:14 Speaker 1] Ah, podcast<\/p>\n [0:00:15 Speaker 0] that showcases the talents, skills and abilities of U. T faculty, staff and students. I’m your host. Brandon Jones, associate director for student learning and development in housing and dining. And we’re excited to have you listening to us E Away, right? Welcome, everybody to the leadership, innovation ventures and entrepreneurship, Also known as live podcast. As usual, I’m your host, Dr Brandon Jones, associate director for student learning and development in housing and dining at the University of Texas at Austin. And I am so excited because we have a very, very, very, very, very, very, very special guest with us today in none other than Dr Adrian. See, bro. Dr. C. Bro is the assistant professor in the Department of Radio, Television and film here at the University of Texas at Austin. And we’re gonna have an exciting conversation about just Dr C. Bro’s work history. We’re gonna be talking about his upcoming manuscript, and I want to get his thoughts on One Night in Miami and maybe a couple of other recent films if we’ve got time. So spoiler alert. If you haven’t watched it, pause the recording right now. Go watch it on Amazon Prime and watch it more than once. So that Regina King on the folks that helped produce it can get all the cribs And also so you can listen to the rest of this episode. So, Dr C. Bro, how you doing today, brother?<\/p>\n [0:01:43 Speaker 1] Man? I’m really good. I’m happy to be here. Thanks for reaching out to me when to talk. And I think, you know, just ast being like, you know, a black faculty and staff association members, You know, whatever time we can get the chop it up, discuss, especially in this critical month of, you know, just celebrating our you know, our culture. Our people, you know, do a year round, but this month, giving a special special love to it. I’m just happy to be part of conversation, you know, do my best to get through this tough semester, you know, through the quarantining online teaching. But, you know, working together with the students has still been great. And that’s still, like, you know, the best part of the job. As I’m sure you were working directly with the students, whatever we talk to them, get information out to them being conversation. I’m always for it.<\/p>\n [0:02:22 Speaker 0] Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Well, listen, before we dive into the heavier part of the show again, as you said, this is we’re kicking off Black History Month and I couldn’t think of anybody else that I wanted to get us started this month. So before we dive into the deep questions, why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about yourself? Where you from, where you went to school and what your background is?<\/p>\n [0:02:44 Speaker 1] E eso I’m originally from Oceanside, California Side Kind of Northern County of San Diego. I am going to undergraduate at U C. L. A. Um, I got my bachelor’s degree there and actually in women’s studies, and I had a minor in film and television studies. From there I went on Thio, Columbia University Masters of Arts in African American Studies, and from Colombia. I end up going back to U. C. L. A. So I really wouldn’t like coast to coast literally and got my PhD and film and television at U. C. L. A School of theater, film and television so really have, like, a different degree at every level. But I find a way to combine them all in my research focus that generally talks about, you know, history of, you know, really black media as a whole. Um, largely my focus largely been, you know, sitcoms. And, like, you know, the making of, you know, this black image over time via television. How that line politics of whatever era there in so really aligning, uh, politics, social movements with television as a communication source and how racist change over time through. That is kind of where my focus is our and looking at black media broadly,<\/p>\n [0:03:55 Speaker 0] Wow, that zone impressive background and curriculum vita that you’ve got there. And I know that some of the folks that listening like, wow, we got people like that working at u T. And so I know when I first met you, that’s one of the things that stood out to me. I’m just like this brother is just impressive. You got this This this outstanding background, you got publications out there, but more importantly for me, being the social scientists that I aspire to be, I’m like, man, it’s another brother on campus that’s interested, uh, in media. But I didn’t I didn’t go to school for it or anything like that. So you bring a totally different perspective to the table. So the first question I wanna ask is you know, just about the importance of representation. Why is representation not just on the sitcom level, but just in mass media in general? Why is representation is so important?<\/p>\n [0:04:47 Speaker 1] Yeah, I mean, if it’s important because it goes back to I mean, this is film and television, but I’ll speak from more Taliban basis. I think it’s even as probably more important than film in some ways, because it was that medium that replaced, like radio and popularity. It was a medium that was meant for the masses of men. For everyone in America like to make American citizens, you know, informed, better informed, right. So if you have media that it doesn’t reflect what America looks like, right assed faras like race, gender, sexuality, etcetera. Then you know it za disservice to you know how media is being, you know, is being, you know, articulated to the citizens who are watching it. And I would say, you know, it goes down to the same film like these. Images are part of how people learn about themselves, learn about other communities and learn and learn about the world at large. So if representation isn’t, you know, reflective of the world, we see the world we live in. Then it’s a disservice to, and folks go on living, um, in the world without this kind of this reality. That’s why I think media literacy is so important, being able to be literate about what’s real in the media, how to read media and really not taking one specific media source as the end all be all right. They all have their own kind of agenda or their own, you know, political, you know, biases. So really, being with the media you consume and comparing it to others, like getting always trying to get the full picture. So that’s why me it’s so important to that aspect of representation that you know, if you don’t see yourself, you know it’s it’s hard to reflect to media. It’s hard to feel like you know you belong if you don’t see yourself in certain ways. And you know, so much of media history has been about just showing one side of secretive like the black people. One side of what the imagery may look like. And so nowadays, with like a lot of media coming up where black artists are able to be more control or have more of a stake in the media, it is the right moment for the way in which the black communities able to see itself in different ways. That historically hasn’t been. We haven’t had the access to<\/p>\n [0:06:53 Speaker 0] Yeah, so I noticed when I was looking over your CV. You know, one of the sitcoms that you focus a lot on is around. Sanford and Son, Good Times and The Jeffersons, which is you know, that Z man. That’s top building for black sitcom history, right?<\/p>\n [0:07:12 Speaker 1] What got you<\/p>\n [0:07:14 Speaker 0] so interested and intrigued in those three sitcom specifically? Because a lot of our students who are listening to this right now probably like what Sanford and son or good times? Or better yet, what’s even The Jeffersons? You know, I was born in 84 but grew up in rural East Texas, and so Sanford and Son was always in rotation in our house, especially in syndication. And then, of course, later in life with Nick It night and all the other mediums was able to access good times and the Jefferson. So why those three television shows?<\/p>\n [0:07:45 Speaker 1] Yeah, this shows, you know, there before my time. But honestly, it was my father. So he’s a, you know, immigrant from Trinidad, right? So he when he came to America in the early seventies, late sixties, um, what he did to like, I guess, you know, understand American black culture. Waas watch television. I watch these shows because And that made me so interested in I’m, like, you know, what are people getting about American blackness from TV and like him telling me that and like growing up him having a DVD box, sets of all these things, I would watch him kind of kind of obsessively and always thinking about, you know, You know, why was this joke funny? Where the referencing here And, like, I used this TV of the seventies to chart what was going on with black people in the seventies, right? And like, man, we see this boom of like they were talking about the sitcoms we need this boom of the seventies being this kind of huge influx of sitcom starring, starring and about black communities and we see that again mainly in the nineties, right eighties. You had, like, you know, cause we run this whole era. But it was all kind of secular, but seventies and nineties, this huge boom of, you know, just blackness and being exposed large to the masses. So I wanted to always start at the You have started the origins right in the seventies being that moment where you saw so much about black means being expressed on TV. And then I realized that, Oh, these shows Sanderson Jefferson’s and good times. They were all created by the same company e happened, you know, one day, be, you know, like obsessively watched having one day look at the credits and see that I’m like, Oh, that’s interesting. I look people up there to white men who run this company, right? So that’s another thing. I was intriguing to me. Like, How do these two white men in the early seventies how do they have the entire stake of? Well, not the seventies television, but all of black America’s eyes and like, you know, it was kind of they have the control of, you know, instructing what blackness looked like to be a TV and to most folks, especially if you’re not around living around black people, how people understand what black people look like, how they act, you know how they live. So I always wanted to investigate. You know, there’s so much written about these two white individuals, but you’re gonna Norman Lear who? Rantanen productions. I wanted to investigate Tannin Productions from perspective of the Black Artists actors, you know, script writers, set designers, etcetera who were a part of making these images. Because although these individuals were at the top of production and, you know, really made it clear that, you know, there wasn’t space for black people. Tapas, faras like, you know, executive power of these episodes industries. What about those who are actually performing these images with that stake for them? You know what political pressures were meant for them because they had this unasked for burden of representing a whole race because there’s nothing on TV like these shows. So people gonna look at this and say, Oh, this is what blackness is, And that’s a daunting, like, you know, burden that you didn’t even ask for. Right. So and you know, I want to know. How did they feel about these things, right? How are they able to perform blackness but also make it clear that blackness is performed in many different ways? It’s fluid. It’s not just one image, and I think that these shows represent that, and these actors don’t get there. Do But however, these white producers get most of credit. But I think the credit needs to go more towards the artists who really put their careers on the line for these roles. And we’re often faced in contention with these right creators and came out to, ah, lot of them feeling that, you know, uh, they’re better off leaving these shows Ah, lot walking off on the show because they have that star power to do such. But it really also was a moment where black artists started to, you know, be able to have power in the writing. They were able to, you know, negotiate things better in the contract. So it was a moment as a watershed moment. We think of like artist now who, like tagged themselves, executive producers and all their works for that extra money and for that claim, which you should do It wouldn’t have happened if it didn’t happen from, like this locus in the seventies of individuals realizing that you know what I can say. Look, I’m not going to do this and they have to care to my wishes, because there’s no show without me<\/p>\n [0:11:49 Speaker 0] so that I got two questions. I’ll start with the first one. So the first one being So Is that what happened with John Amos? With good times, right on for the people, for the people listening, especially our students that are trying to figure out who’s John Nameless Cleo McDowell, right? From from, uh, coming to<\/p>\n [0:12:08 Speaker 1] America s way.<\/p>\n [0:12:11 Speaker 0] Listen to this. You might recognize him in the newest, uh, iteration of the movie, but talk to us a little about that<\/p>\n [0:12:17 Speaker 1] effect, like very, you know, I mean, if you ever went back and watched roots, you know, he was you know, you can’t as an older person, you know? So, Donna, animals in general, um, great example, because not talked about enough right? And I think I have, like in my upcoming manuscript work, I have, like, a whole almost a whole chapter on him and his story with, like, contention at this space because what happened with him? John Amos and good times specifically, who played the father? James Evans senior. Um, the show was written without a father figure in place. So what happened was Esther Rolle, who played the mother. She had so much star power because the show was created for her. She said, I wanna, you know, a quote unquote nuclear family, which is the first black nuclear family on television. Right? So he came into the show Great seasons. I think he had three seasons on the show, and then he started having issues with the way in which they were, you know, making a character of the JJ character played by Jimmy Walker. You know, the show started much more about him, his antics to a point that you know the potential of the show. When it first started, it showed him, as his young artists kind of showing blackness in a different way and showing a<\/p>\n [0:13:26 Speaker 0] young<\/p>\n [0:13:27 Speaker 1] it’s, you know, it was a beautiful how they’re showing it. But it got so much more about his antics in like, you know, them trying to over exert his like, you know, quote unquote goofiness um, toe a point that James Amos was like, you know, John Amy, Excuse me was not okay with it. And he was, you know, in contact with the creators say I don’t like this. He would stop showing up toe table, reads he renegotiating his contract and said he wanted a stake in the writing because he doesn’t like how the black, young black man with being represented on that’s the point that John Animals was, you know, again, he was showing up the things later on time because he wanted them to actually take him seriously. But I got to a point that, you know, tandem said to him, you know, and and not so many words, you’re you know, we could do the show without you. And that’s kind of how he was written off the show. And I think, you know, yeah, this quotes like I look up interviews of him is part of my work. He has quote talking about how the creators of tanning production, specifically Norman leader, was like, you know, um, you are a what he called like a You’re a force that’s like, you know, a new undesirable force or like really, You’re doing too much. And really, when it comes to the show, we could do without you, right? Or disruptive force. Excuse me. Says you’re a disruptive force and you know, next season will continue to go, but it won’t go with you in it. So you know, that’s what High effectively has written off. If you know anything about good times, you know, the damn damn damn episode when a crime. Because<\/p>\n [0:14:58 Speaker 0] exactly.<\/p>\n [0:14:58 Speaker 1] Yeah, they kill him off the show. But there’s so much politics. There’s so many things going on behind the scenes that, you know, I’m hoping to help bring the light a lot of folks know about, especially they lived through these shows, but what it says about individuals who stick up for what they believe in and what they have at stake. And I think in this in that moment, particularly the way that certain things were written as far as you know, actors, you know, their power on a set was much different. So they really did risk their careers and, you know, fighting against, you know, imagery that they didn’t agree with, and stories like that need to be told like this kind of activism we see in the media has been there, and it was. And I think it’s hard now for folks, but I think I hard it was then you know where there is. No, there is no power at top. That looks like you, you know, And you’re really probably getting paid less than a white counterparts show, like all in the family. But you have the same exact numbers, right? So when you think about things like that, like these, what was at stake for these artists, then it really paints a picture of how we see media now. And I always like to start the origin. So that’s what<\/p>\n [0:16:04 Speaker 0] eso along those same lines. That second part to my question, is, how did that impact the role of the black father? Because you said a whole lot of stuff there, right? You got you cut your in the city in the seventies, making their way into the eighties. But then you also think about you said so much stuff there, and I wanna make sure I capture it. You talked about Esther Rolle being influential and making sure that there was a black father in that picture. But then I think about when you fast forward to what Miller Boyett did with family matters. Right? And Harriet was the actual central care was supposed to have been. But Carl ends up being the emphasis. And then, of course, you get to Steve Merkel, and you kind of have the same dueling effect. Let’s talk about that image of the black father there, and then we can come back to that other part.<\/p>\n [0:16:52 Speaker 1] Yeah, and what it did. Really, Because you think about black fatherhood, like going from good times. And you have, you know, Jefferson comes out. But like, so ever since, really? You know, at that point, the child Lionel was 40 an adult. So it wasn’t the same black fatherhood, so we wouldn’t see him raising him, right? What we saw next, really as far as a popularized black fatherhood was, you know, Bill Cosby, The Cosby Show? Um, in 83 I believe so. And what changed with that was you open the seventies moment of, you know, kind of right off the heels of, you know, civil rights movement. It’s called the TV. Historians call the seventies like this era of relevance where they’re actually using social talking about social justice issues in TV, the very liberal etcetera. When you get to the eighties, you come into, like, you know, this idea of Reaganomics with, you know, Ronald Reagan.<\/p>\n [0:17:40 Speaker 0] It’s<\/p>\n [0:17:41 Speaker 1] all about trying to outcast, like the black people who quote unquote or stereotypes of these welfare people who are black men on the streets in jail. So what they did was to, you know, ignore that. That kind of that talk in in real life what they did it on TV. They created this kind of this world in which kind of perfection, you know, when you look at Cosby Show, right? And so you get this kind of conservative father figure and Bill Cosby, Of course you know who through. You know we like. He put festival. We don’t mess with Bill Cosby, but it’s right. But I want to make that<\/p>\n [0:18:14 Speaker 0] distinction. Folks, we make a distinction,<\/p>\n [0:18:17 Speaker 1] make that very clear. That is someone who performs to be. And but the totally different that he could possible is not the same father that James Evans senior is right like their their livelihood and even senior works. You know, 23 jobs, like, you know, washing dishes at a diner. And then then he goes to wash cars at a car wash, right? Very much, you know, working class, working day and night to provide for his family. Live in the projects, you know, But still, finding those good times in life become was completely entitled the show. Finding the times in life where you can make ends meet and Stillman and still be a happy family, Uh, Cosby Show is about, you know, a family that, you know, financial means. There never were never discussion of the show It all it is about how the black family lives. And, you know, it seems like that which I think, you know, it is a good breath of fresh air coming from seventies. I think the best shows or have a mixture of both, which is why I think, you know, been coming to family matters in the nineties. 89. Um, I think comes a good kind of transition from, like, kind of the perfection that is the Huxtables to kind of, um or, you know, middle class sensibilities. They do talk about a lot of issues, like, you know, economics and the family and just running a household, etcetera, that I would take lost in the eighties a bit. So I think you realize these trends that continue they’re trying to like with With With Cosby, they kind of erase the history of what was happening with, like, these lower income of working class fathers. And I would say when they brought back in, you know, in the Winslow’s they’re kind of bringing back Maurin. But it goes like the nineties. What’s happened in the nineties in general, you know, the hip hop also like black people becoming more in the middle class. So, like that was all come into effect in like how we start to see this development of black fathers changing over time, too.<\/p>\n [0:20:04 Speaker 0] And that’s important to note because I think, you know, when I look at the image of James from good times, he was strong, you know? But he was also cast as this, uh, just this dominant borderline like if you talk about the stereotype of a black father like the spankings and the threats and all that other stuff. But he was present in that home, and then his kids lives And like you said, then we fast forward on even in san for this. You know, Lamont has grown, you know, living there were Fred, right? And And as it goes on, it’s not until the eighties that we start to get that, you know, a semblance of black life. But then now some people may be listening to this and going Oh, wait a second. The Cosby talked about economics. That one episode with Theo did the monopoly. They did the monopoly money with Theo told Cliff he wasn’t going to<\/p>\n [0:20:52 Speaker 1] college.<\/p>\n [0:20:55 Speaker 0] Yeah, that’s my favorite episode. Yeah, my favorite.<\/p>\n [0:20:58 Speaker 1] Yeah. When I showed that show and look like I teach a serial, not teach a history of black television comedy course that is episode I show, I think, with the great one of the best pilots, you know,<\/p>\n [0:21:10 Speaker 0] hands down.<\/p>\n [0:21:11 Speaker 1] Yeah, but you’re talking about. Yeah, but it’s not. That is not an ingrained part of the show at all. A<\/p>\n [0:21:18 Speaker 0] tall, uh but I’m with you. I do think that there does need to be a balance in representation. You said something else earlier about you know, your father immigrated here from Trinidad, and then, um, by doing so utilizing media Thio Understand Black life. Do you think that the imagery that was that has been put out there historically, Uh, in the media, Do you think that that’s had an impact on how our brothers and sisters in the diaspora, in Africa and in the islands and in other countries, not here in the United States? Do you think that that’s had a, uh, impact on our relationship with one another?<\/p>\n [0:22:00 Speaker 1] Uh, yeah, I think so. Because I mean because it comes down to like, most of them. It’s like, what else would they go off of? Right. So, like, that’s what they’re imagery is. So you know, And it actually comes to the point that I have a great example for this, like Red Fox who play Sanford. And so they played Sanford, the main character, Sanford and son, right? He wants funny enough, went to Trinidad. Um, a lot of folks on the Red Fox started off as like this blue comedy stand up comedy person. Very raunchy, very dirty, All that right. And then he sort of he switched that persona to be on national television, right? Sorry. Chris Ward can be used all this stuff is definitely not this kind of larger, you know, He was very large on the sexual innuendoes, all that stuff, right? And it is like late night comedy. So what he did, he flew to Trinidad for a comedy show, but everyone trend that knows him as knows him as spread Samper, not that box. So he did a comedy show as Red Box, and they were appalled, like, who’s part? This is, for example, like, No, this is This is the real red five. So that makes it clear that people are understanding blackness and black manhood, especially in the seventies moment, where, like, you know, that’s the That’s the Black Show in 1972 to 74 before the Times comes. That’s how they understand American blackness through looking at this individual right and so, so, so, so entrenched that when it comes to his comedy, they think that that’s him. That’s not him. That’s the character he performs. So, making it clear that yeah, I think through the diaspora like, especially in that time period, uh, there wasn’t much, much to go off of us. Faras our identification of their identification of you know what American blackness may look like versus, um, you know, now that I would say, like, you know, with America being this, you know, super power, that it is an American media being everywhere. I think folks have a better chance now of looking at diverse forms of American media like piece together like different things and more fluid imagery of black people as a whole. But in that period, Stanford was There’s a book called by Timothy Havens called Black Television Travels Sanford Some Good time. Jefferson’s were, like, extremely popular everywhere in the U. S. You know what I mean? And they got especially in the, you know, throughout the diaspora in Africa and like, you know, in the black eyes of like Amsterdam and London in the UK thes shows were extremely popular in the Caribbean to because again, that that was their way of, you know, seeing their other, their black brothers and sisters in America. And so with that, that was their their the insight into what these shows look like. So that’s another reason why these shows is so important in the seventies moment that they have so much rested on their shoulders. for like how they represent themselves. But who’s writing for them? Who makes the final say so on these shows? White producers So the points and where black wires came about, Maura or these white actors try. These black actors are getting more power. That’s why I talk about you could see episodes that are very clearly written by black, black, white versus black versus White Riders. You can tell just watching them what comes out of this episode. So I analyze those points because it’s so important to see once this kind of black power comes into production space, how the shows were able to maneuver and talk about more of a fluid black identity. Hmm.<\/p>\n [0:25:14 Speaker 0] Man, you dropping so many, Uh, Jim’s on this right here, and we’re gonna have to have a whole another conversation about just this timeline, and I’m gonna have to have you come talk to my class<\/p>\n [0:25:25 Speaker 1] because<\/p>\n [0:25:27 Speaker 0] because I teach. I teach a class called interpreting Black rage over in College of Liberal arts. Too smart to honor students and one of the things I talk to people about it. I was like, Look, just because it’s soulful doesn’t mean these folks ain’t angry, Okay? I gave the example of, you know, Sammy Davis Jr singing Mr Bojangles I’m like, watch the performance Don’t just listen to the song Watch how the movements are aggressive, intense And so I’m gonna have to have you come talk Let’s shift gears that shift gears because I gotta talk one night in Miami. So again, if you haven’t watched the show or the movie, please get on Amazon Prime watch it and then come back after you’ve paused this recording cause I don’t want to spoil it for folks because we’re going to talk the movie brother, What do your thoughts on not about<\/p>\n [0:26:13 Speaker 1] black rage?<\/p>\n [0:26:14 Speaker 0] Yes, yes. Do us a favor, though introduced one night in Miami to our audience for the folks that are are attempted toe. Watch it after this. And then let’s let’s let’s talk this thing out because I’ve been waiting to talk about this in a public space with folks for a long for a couple of weeks now, and you get to be the first person I get to have an in depth conversation with.<\/p>\n [0:26:38 Speaker 1] Yeah, yeah, so, man, it was It was a lie, and it was beautiful. So first shot out to Virgin King, who was, you know, iconic and everything that she does e I need to meet her, but in general s So it is a beautiful story, you know, is based off of a play. I believe the play produced my 2016 with the premier of the play. No. Sorry. Sorry. 2013 and 2016 Has some shows. Well, too. But both of a play called One night in Miami played by, uh, this playwright named Kim Kim Powers. K m k M P. Right, Um, there’s a play that chronicles, you know, cat. Well, Mohammed Ali, at that time, he’s gonna cast this place to, um, the boxer Malcolm X. Uh, you know, a tous point. You know, iconic, you know, a leader within the next and of Islam, you know, talks about Sam Cooke, this influential singer songwriter reporting producer. And this started running back Jim Brown, literally fresh off of All Star season, fresh off winning the Super Bowl, you know, just on top of the world, right? Thes for individuals at the top of their craft, the most known, the most probably wanted with Malcolm X. You know the most, uh, surveilled black men, I would say in the world at this point at this point, right and all leaders in their specific fields and in areas. So Malcolm X, Mohammed Ali, Jim Brown and Sam Cooke in this night in Miami in 1964. This is right after, um, Mohamed will catch it at the time Mohammed Ali won the title fight over Sonny Liston. Right? And then this is a huge world renowned five people waiting for this, Um, Cassius Clay was underdog, but he was like, 22 at the time, right? And so it was this moment where black people are like he is some kind of excess, like this large savior in the black community when it comes with through boxing. So you know, everyone’s eyes are on this young up and coming boxer, and he seeks mentor ship and their friendship with, like Malcolm X, Jim Brown and Sam Cooke. And there’s so this one night in Miami is a This meeting of these four individuals actually did happen, but no one knows actual conversation that happened. They met at a hotel in Miami before going out for the evening to celebrate, uh, Mohammed Ali’s win. So this writer Kim Powers kind of creates this discussion in this In this dialogue that happen between the four individuals, they’re all lines together this watershed moment in 1964. You know, we don’t really know what they talked about in that room, but this writer kind of based his stage play on, like the possibility of what was discussed in that room and like how it really, literally, each individual changed American history, not just black history, American history, forever after this conversation. And so, like, you know, whether through sports through music or through activism, it’s night in Miami, you know, branched off completely different stories for the for these individuals following, you know, And as of right now, only person is still living is you know, Jim Brown, and I’m sure he’ll probably never say what really went down and in that in that hotel room discussion. But to feel like a fly in the wall in this in this, because it is based on the play. So the dialogue is this beautiful on you sound like a fly on the wall in that room. Like, what would it Can you imagine being the conversation with these poor people who have just literally are icons and black culture and black history? Black life? But yeah, like that’s kind of the essence of what happened in the one night in Miami. Right? Alright, without spoiling too much on it.<\/p>\n [0:30:19 Speaker 0] Yeah, we’ll talk offline at some point about my favorite quotes from the movie. But the reason why I wanted to talk about it is because, you know, some people are looking at this, and I’ve seen it on social media. There are a lot of folks that are like, Why now? Like like what? What’s what’s the relevance of that night to now? And I’m just sitting there, all wide eyed, going. Are you kidding me? What do you mean, Why now? Like why not now? What’s going on in America today? Especially, You know, a couple weeks ago, on January the sixth, I’m sitting here going that conversation from 1964 is justice relevant on february 3rd, 2021. Talk to the students that are listening to this that are one that maybe wondering that same thing like why is a film like this just as important now that was dialogues. And those, um, conversations between these men. Why is it just a important today as it was in 64?<\/p>\n [0:31:15 Speaker 1] This kind of story is timeless, you know? And it makes it clear that, you know, things in American history are, you know, they are the way they are for a reason. And they last over time because thinking about the, you know, the structure of what American race relations And, you know, this racial hierarchy is built on. That is why these things are still relevant. Now everything they’re saying is is so discussion we have now, like I think of these folks that, you know, I’m not gonna Max was seen as a threat to. Well, at this point, he’s, uh, seen as a threat to, you know, the establishment of American democracy. He’s even seen as a threat to his own nation of Islam, who he grew, right. So he is living in complete fear. And what happens once he’s enlightened? That is when he is murdered, right? And you think of individuals like, yeah, you know, Sam Cooke. He is this person who literally part of larger conversation of this film is that he has the largest impact or the capability for the large impact off all these individuals and, like how is using impact? He’s a black man who’s making money. He owns his own masters, and we know it comes to music production. That’s where the money is so like again, this unasked for burden of you know what you do for the black people. And I think that that, like, it falls on these individuals shoulders like, didn’t ask for this, But they’re doing it and like what? That they put their own lives at stake at all times. So And I think of, you know, individuals now who are in the streets doing activism, doing the work, um, these unasked for burdens. And like all these things, this culture, that they’re they’re they’re they’re holding on their shoulders extremely relevant, like the TV show that talk about they would there would not be the shows in which we see now without the history of the shows that that were there in previously is necessary really makes it clear that one many things aren’t changed. Every conversation had in this film could be redirected to the now um and really every I think of, like, you know, Kaepernick in sports, right? I think of, you know, I think Kaepernick in sports. I think of anyone you know, black lives matter, the individuals top black lives matter, you know, being threatened and called terrorists, you know, same way Malcolm X was I think of, you know, singers who are, you know, accepting or not accepting, you know, performing at the Super Bowl due to how race it is perpetuated and discussed in the NFL.<\/p>\n [0:33:42 Speaker 0] All these things<\/p>\n [0:33:43 Speaker 1] they’re still like people put these celebrities on a certain pedestal and affectation of them and a lot of them They followed that through that because they do, they do believe in these things as well, too. But and you think it’s it’s high now, like think of how much pressure, how much more difficult it was for those individuals in 64 right, where where you know the livelihood in your safety is especially the Malcolm X’s case is you’re always looking over your shoulder, right, and you have your own people coming after you, too, and I think it’s so much relevant today. Like looking at the way social media influences how we someone could be canceled in one day and, you know, held up to his pedestal in the day before. This is really an era where era and like it kind of times where you know that label of a black celebrity<\/p>\n [0:34:32 Speaker 0] is<\/p>\n [0:34:33 Speaker 1] fearful, you know? And it comes with this level of, you know, feeling like you have a burden of representing, representing things where at times I I do agree with, like, you know, you have this pedestal. How are you using it? But also thinking about the fear that comes with that and thinking about You know, these people are human human beings,<\/p>\n [0:34:52 Speaker 0] but<\/p>\n [0:34:53 Speaker 1] how they were treated over time, you know, really risking their lives every day for what they felt was right and for the and to make their voice heard where you have some individuals were telling them, No, make your money and ignore all this stuff. And I think that’s so much the case with these four individuals. And like when you think of black people that recreated the status of blackness and and black men, and this black is in general in American history, you have to mention these four people among among others, of course, but there’s no argument these four people are huge in that aspect.<\/p>\n [0:35:27 Speaker 0] Right? Right. Oh, my gosh. This is This is why I wish I had counseled my next meeting because I swear, I really wanted to give you an opportunity to kind of go a little bit further with some other stuff that because I ain’t We need your chance to talk about what’s going on with Chloe, Chloe from Chloe and Halle right now, and the censorship and all of that stuff, because I think that that’s important, especially for black men, for us to be having these conversations with each other because the persecution that that young lady you’re suffering right now is just unreal. I really wish that we could We’re probably gonna have that conversation now that I<\/p>\n [0:36:01 Speaker 1] think I’m going down for a part too, you know, And but it’s really just told you like<\/p>\n [0:36:05 Speaker 0] and the way<\/p>\n [0:36:06 Speaker 1] messages, or even like I feel like now it’s even scary the way messages and the way information is transferred so much faster now, right through social media versus like you know, having to wait on hearing things through radio or do prints, then, like the backlash one could receive. And like just the policing of women’s bodies, you know, it’s just disgusting now, so many different ways, right? Just how bodies of police in different ways based off of like, you know, uh, what is attributed Thio, you know, you know, standards of beauty and, in essence, right or, you know, shaming in a lot of ways. So wholly different conversation. But we can always get back into that<\/p>\n [0:36:42 Speaker 0] way. Got we got to come back to that one because I know I got students, my students in my class on Monday. We’re ready to jump out the chairs on Zoom so we could have that convoy and I was like to be continued, but I wasn’t able to talk about it in class today. Let me ask you one last and final thing, and then I’ll let you get out of here. So I know that for a lot of folks and a lot of students, they think of activism as this one thing. It’s protesting, it’s writing, it’s loud. But the reality is that you were saying earlier, is that you know there’s more than one way to be an activist. What’s your message to that student who’s thinking about coming to U T. Or that student who is thinking about being an RTF major that wants to send a message but is ensured that this is the proper medium? Or if they’re the person that should be doing that? What’s the message that you would give to that student who’s who’s thinking that right now<\/p>\n [0:37:36 Speaker 1] everyone plays a role? Um, you don’t need to be on the front lines with the mega mega bullhorn, uh, to be considered quote unquote activists or activator of change or a a force. Honestly, um, I think goes back this film, it says, Answer all these questions so everyone needs Well, no. But really, you mentioned like black rage and how it manifested and also how it’s expressed. You know, people think like this angry black man or the angry black people like No, this rage comes from a place, you know. It goes back from history. It’s a transfer over from our ancestors. It isn’t you know, I like I hate toe sometimes essential eyes, but it is the thing that black people have in their bodies right from a natural place of ah history. That’s all, you know, reflective of how we are here and why, Um, and look at the raid, the way in which rages, you know, about how you manifest that rate and how you use that rage to, like force or toe work for a change. So myself, I do that through, you know, teaching about media, making, folks media literate, making folks realize that gain the information and the information is out there. So what do you do with the information? And also, if it’s not out there, how are you wanting to make it? And how are you going? Todo interrogate the information that is out there so that they become better and so that people know that you know that is not the reality. So writes about playing with reality and realizing that, you know,<\/p>\n [0:38:56 Speaker 0] you have<\/p>\n [0:38:57 Speaker 1] to look at blackness in this way in this fluid way, because we’re not static were consistent, constantly moving people. That’s my way of doing it through education. But you’re way can be doing it through art. You could be the person that creates the art that that that is shown in which you know that this political art that has shown that represents how you’re feeling on the inside. How are you manifesting your age in that way? You know, you could be a individual who was simply, you know, And I mean, let’s say simply working through, you know, computer sciences. Creating those websites for individuals teaching black folks how to code black was how to manifest their money through stock. You see what just happened through through the stocks and Robin Hood?<\/p>\n [0:39:36 Speaker 0] Those air,<\/p>\n [0:39:37 Speaker 1] all points of reflection, where people have a code with the jobs in tech, Especially right now, the way in which we’re living this digital world,<\/p>\n [0:39:45 Speaker 0] your activism<\/p>\n [0:39:46 Speaker 1] can be through the way, utilize computers and technology, right? Everyone has their role. And you could do it in any space there, like being on the front lines, walking down the street. You know, that is one great way to do it, you know. But that that is there’s so many different ways to do it. And I think that anyone using utilizing whatever you’re interested in and folks think that you know, I’m not doing enough etcetera. You being here as a black person. Talk about black people specifically right now is doing enough. You will be in a black student here, right? Seeing that wearing that UT badge right is doing enough. But also whether you’re an athlete, whether you’re, you know, working a student government, whether you’re, you know, simple, not mean, simply whether you’re way students trying to get their degree right, what it is you do with that. And it could be anything. There’s any way you can utilize your activism. You could be that person. That’s, you know, in communications, like writing, writing these speeches, person making these phone calls, you’re so voice and space is so important. You look at like, uh, Stacey Abrams, right? Who’s now nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize after what Georgia did after what Georgia did to her, you know, thinking like, you know, she could be off Georgia and people would understand. But what she did, she galvanized, went door to door, got people together, got people out to vote numbers that door has never seen before. And what’s the seemingly<\/p>\n [0:41:06 Speaker 0] small task<\/p>\n [0:41:08 Speaker 1] like? It completely<\/p>\n [0:41:09 Speaker 0] changed<\/p>\n [0:41:11 Speaker 1] the American political system. Uh, senators, the Georgia, the Georgia Senate like and really what’s gonna be the face of what’s going on, like the in America for the next at least four years.<\/p>\n [0:41:22 Speaker 0] So<\/p>\n [0:41:23 Speaker 1] everyone has a space in which they could manifest their activism. And I think that, like you thinking that because your role isn’t necessarily the speaking person in the front line. Look at all these people who are a part of the cadre of individuals behind or next to a king on X or other folks, you know, they wouldn’t be them without those individuals. And so, knowing that you know what your places matters in that activism, and it could be manifested in any way you have it. But you were like, What? What’s not gonna help is not utilizing your voice right and thinking that what you’re doing isn’t isn’t working. Um, that’s the disservice, I would say.<\/p>\n [0:42:01 Speaker 0] Yeah, please, please, please make sure you commenting that you’re liking your sharing your subscribing on whatever platform you’re listening to this on because this was this was a phenomenal conversation. Uh, Doc, if the students, or if the people wanted to follow you or keep up with what you’re doing, what’s the best way for people toe reach out to you or toe. Keep up with what you got going on?<\/p>\n [0:42:25 Speaker 1] Well, yeah, definitely. Uh, you know, Twitter is cool. So I brought PhD. Um, that’s my Twitter that, you know, I’m always but, you know, it’s No, it’s not just, you know, you see affiliated. You know, I talk a lot of trash on there, too. So it is what it<\/p>\n [0:42:37 Speaker 0] is, but<\/p>\n [0:42:38 Speaker 1] it’s probably you could follow me, but also, really, I’m really trying to work on moving moody in general. Moody college communication. Much more of a affirming space for black students. Black, hardest black traders, black voices, right? So I’m trying to a lot of work with the, you know, black Student Association, and like bringing a voice in a space where black students, they’re like, That’s my long term goal. Like, I want something that’s gonna be here that last longer than any us that air here. A space for black students at Moody who worked working communication and working, communication sciences, working advertising, public affairs, film, radio, TV, anything, you know, the communication is literally everything. We do it every day and black viewers with the way we communicate our culture, our ideas are, uh, with one another. The world wouldn’t move without it. So do not have a space that communicates that and uplift black students. There is a disservice that I’m I’m working with Moody and University of Large Thio help remedy eso. Really? There will be events in which I work with the, uh, the diversity space. And when you call this communication where I’ll have, you know, speakers come in, especially in this month. Look out for all having, you know, speakers come in talking about the recent films. Talk about, you know, art that’s on the way. And I will do everything in collaboration with the Black Student Association and other students, because in the day it’s not about really about me as a faculty member. It’s about how you all can utilize your voices of students, how you can galvanize and how you can work to feel like, you know the work you’re doing is worth is worthwhile and supported. And just know with immediately, you have that support through the movie colleges, communications. You know there, especially in RTF. You know, I’m the only one black, one black professor in RTF studies. That’s myself. And there’s one in production That’s whether Jackie Smith So we do everything we can And, you know, obviously the space isn’t gonna look as it should until we get more folks like us in it. Onda, we’re doing everything we can because if it doesn’t look better than how we left it, then we don’t do our jobs. E. I really just want to encourage you all to come in those spaces coming to these talks, uh, follow zoom links to everything that’s happening this month at Texas Moody regarding Black History Month and I’ll definitely be there to talk to you all. And I’m always available to pick up, pick your brain for ideas to see what’s next, because I’m one person. But with the help of everybody else, you know, we could make this even better.<\/p>\n [0:45:04 Speaker 0] A man brother Appreciate that. Well, that’s been my show. I really appreciate Dr C Bro for coming out and hanging with us today. You all stay tuned every Friday like like a good mix tape. We dropping dropping episodes every Friday. So y’all make sure y’all stay tuned. Did E. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode to catch the next installment. Be sure to follow us on Spotify apple podcasts, Google podcasts and stitcher. We’ll see you next time.<\/p>\n"},"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/24\/2022\/03\/LIVE-logo-TPN.png","download_link":"https:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/podcast-download\/205\/episode-14-the-power-of-representation.mp3","player_link":"https:\/\/podcasts.la.utexas.edu\/live\/podcast-player\/205\/episode-14-the-power-of-representation.mp3","audio_player":"