Episode 010 – What Makes Reggaeton Black Music?

[0:00:10 Speaker 0] you’re listening. Toe Latin Experts A podcast of Latino studies at the University of Texas at Austin Latin experts features the voices of faculty, staff and students, as well as friends and alumni of the Department of Mexican American and Latino Latino Studies. The Latino Research Institute and the Center for Mexican American Studies. Join us for this episode of Latin experts. Mhm Following the murder of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police, protests swept the U. S. And countries around the world while people were taking to the streets and to social media to say the black lives matter. Many reggaeton artists, particularly the genre’s biggest stars, were curiously silent. How do we explain this? Why does the genre born out of Afro Diaspora musical traditions and cultures need a reckoning about race? In this episode, we’ll discuss how Eagleton’s past and present to unpack, what makes Harry get in black music and what the genre must do to combat racism, including within its own ranks. And I’m really excited for our guests for today, one of my favorite had I get on historians and an amazing person that everyone listening to this should be following on social media if they’re not already. But we’re here with Agata. So got that. Can you introduce yourself and tell folks a little bit about yourself in your

[0:01:39 Speaker 1] work? First and foremost, I am very happy to be here. Sofa Marisol, Case ofa thank you for having me. I’m Catalina. Kristen Orla. Gotta However you know me, I am a 26 year old ghetto historian and executive producer. Who I I love Ramadan. You know, I say that music saved my life, and it has, you know, um and that’s the degree of which it’s affected me personally. Professionally, I found myself in a very difficult time in my life. And while I decided to go back to school, I figured, Huh? What if I, you know, dive into rigatoni? In a way that’s intellectual. Has anyone done this? And ironically, that’s when I find your work, Marisol and that of Petrie. Um, Rivera do, of course, And like Zepeda etcetera. And you know, I just pretty much wanted Thio continue the conversation and create content based off of these nuances. And thus we have to get out. That’s a little bit about me.

[0:02:45 Speaker 0] Awesome. And I love that idea of music saved my life and the, you know, I think that’s an important way for us to get started with this conversation. To really highlight, you know, the stakes, right? The stakes of what we’re talking about here and talking about these situations. Uh, not as something that’s frivolous or not as something you know, it’s something that we need to take seriously. So I love the way you you frame that. So

[0:03:10 Speaker 1] part of what we’re

[0:03:11 Speaker 0] trying to get at in this episode is the seeming contradiction between a genre that’s understood as black or at least heavily indebted, toe black musical traditions being silent on issues affecting black folks around the globe. Um, and in particular, as we saw from the summer issues of police violence, state violence. So I

[0:03:31 Speaker 1] was wondering if you could

[0:03:31 Speaker 0] tell us a little bit more about the origins of the genre. I know you’ve done a ton of work around this and

[0:03:37 Speaker 1] tell us, How did the origins

[0:03:39 Speaker 0] of the genre help us to understand? How could I get on? Came to be associate ID with blackness. And what are the ways in which it drew from Aphrodite sport cultures

[0:03:49 Speaker 1] I’m absolutely, And I love this question simply because I feel like there’s such a disconnect. It’s funny, you know, today you turn on TV, you see some of the biggest and brightest artists breast in the same way that you would see like rappers on B e t know there’s a translation. And in the fashion and the aesthetics yeah, there’s there’s a disconnect in the culture and the people, you know make the exclusive of language being one of the biggest batteries. But I think that’s false. No. And I say that because in reference to this question, simply, it’s a repetition of history. No hip hop was born out of the civil rights movement in Panama. We had a dictator. There were artists who, um, literally said, You know what? Um, in society, they don’t want to respect us as PETA Megan’s because we’re speaking our pathway, etcetera. We’re gonna sing reggae and Canyon in Puerto Rico. There was mano. Dura is just a repetition of people saying, uh, enough with the status quo. We’re gonna do our own shit, basically, you know, like we’re gonna you know, we’re going to fight pain with passion with art with music and essentially, you know, it’s coming from a very black places coming from marginalization from disenfranchisement from pain, you know? So I hope that best answer your question. Yeah. And you know, the thing that I

[0:05:10 Speaker 0] love about your work also on And I wonder if we could talk about this a little bit too, is also, you know, these kind of cultural exchanges really drawing on black experiences of migration to right, because I think this is the thing that’s really important to keep in mind when we’re talking about how they get on to is it gets kind of cast as almost just this kind of Spanish language copycat, right of hip hop or reggae. And there’s this

[0:05:40 Speaker 1] way in

[0:05:41 Speaker 0] which Britain and all of its kind of precursors whether we’re talking about reggae and espanol or underground, right, they really draw on these kind of experiences with migration and diaspora. So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that.

[0:05:58 Speaker 1] I think that, you know, toe to a certain extent, I don’t blame people for having those feelings. No, because there is a sort of formula, no toe, how arrogant tone is created. But granted, I just really hope that Rosa Rio reggaeton fans know that doesn’t sound the same, that it is simply more complicated than that. Britain is the son or daughter, right of hip hop. Of them bow of Excuse me of R and B off Bomba. You know all of these different genres, and I often compare reggaeton to hip hop. No hip hop. There’s so many different sub genres. Alternative event guard M. O Electra, etcetera, Timothy and reggaeton. If you want to break it down, right because reggaeton, Despereaux, Andi people often confuse it to Dagestan. I call reggaeton the manifestation of the whitewashing of Paro. Paro is black Perot’s black at its core, Perot is consistent off bomba of hip hop of reggae. When you want to make it, Hey, when you wanna make the trend, that’s when you’re leaning more towards reggaeton. All parole reggaeton ball. Reggaeton is not Barrow, you know, And people don’t They don’t get that. Um, I feel like essentially, um, you know, all of this ties into the messy Sahay of Latina Rod. Um, you know, the unification of La Rossa and you know how we’re all one people’s all when people on all when sound and this gets translated into the music as well. So so next time I don’t blame people for misinterpreting this and not understanding this into its core. I’m a dork for this. So this is what I eat sleeping, You know, um, this all day and night. But essentially, you know, it’s far more complex than that. And yeah,

[0:07:56 Speaker 0] I love that distinction of all. All had a ghetto is not the same as pero right and really marking this distinction. So what do you see as the difference? Right. So you’re like a hero is black, right? And it’s coming out of these kind of black experiences. What do you see? How well, how do we make this distinction? Break it down for folks who who might not even know what Perot is, what is the difference?

[0:08:21 Speaker 1] But I was Twerk music. It isno, and that’s that’s part of the reason why it was so policed. Why people were so upset with it. No. Um there mano dura country agreement. This is this is your alley, right? When everybody was trying Thio really police Puerto Ricans on how to walk. How to talk, how to act, what? To listen to what not to listen to. Ah, Part of that is, you know, the idea of policing bodies. You know the idea of, uh, you know, comport Ondo say of acting a certain way and that that, you know, the real anger behind that is the twerking is so vulgar, right? Why you have to dance like that. Whereas, you know, that’s inherently extremely black, you know, um, none of that comes from Europe. I would love toe. Think of King Henry, whatever twerking during the what? 16th century, Whatever. Um, that’s inherently black, you know, And that’s that, I feel is the huge distinction between Pedro and Gaitan. Gaitan was created to, you know, basically get away from that type of dance to get away from everything that supports that type of dance and that type of aesthetic. No, but what happens now? Now it’s popular toe to throw in the word, but it’s like a buzzword of sorts. And some people don’t really understand what it means and its political context. And, you know, it’s it’s funny, those air. That’s when we get these moments in media know where artists are calling themselves each other and don’t even know what that means. Then you know, uh, but essentially, that’s exactly what this phenomenon is in. In short.

[0:10:01 Speaker 0] Yeah. And I know one of your big campaigns right is Thio. Bring Harry, go back and get music. Socio

[0:10:08 Speaker 1] again. Right. So I

[0:10:10 Speaker 0] have all into that. And if we have time, we could we could We could talk a little bit about that. But I

[0:10:15 Speaker 1] think this is an

[0:10:16 Speaker 0] interesting kind of, you know, duality that you’re kind of bringing us to which I think gets us into a little bit around the events of the summer. And, you know, the kind of deafening silence right of some of the kind of big name artists I had to get thrown around. Black lives matter. But you know, what I think you’re kind of pointing to is the way that there’s this kind of, um, effort to kind of really de sexualized the genre in certain ways, right? Which is not to say that the genres devoid of sexuality, we know it’s not right. But these kind of certain kinds of, um, pleasures in the body, right. Certain kinds of ways of of comportment, right, as you pointed out. And with that, they’re also becomes this kind of eclipsing not only of certain kind of movements or comportment of the body, but also certain kind of bodies. Right? And we start to see this kind of whitening of the genre, right? And, you know, one of the alternative titles that I was playing around with for our discussion today was what’s up with all these blanket toes and get on. Right? So we started to see this kind of, uh, whitewashing and kind of almost like a cookie cutter mold in some, in some sense. Right, That marks. I think what we’re talking about in terms of this, um, post boom moment of kind of the early two thousands toe right now, right? So

[0:11:41 Speaker 1] let’s kind of

[0:11:42 Speaker 0] get into a little bit around what happened this summer And these responses that we’ve seen from Haraga tornadoes in response to the uprisings for black lives this summer. So, you know, on the one hand, we have horava babban coming out with his songs united or without air, where he tackles head on these questions of criminalization of blackness and the deadly power of the police. Um And then,

[0:12:06 Speaker 1] on the other hand, you

[0:12:07 Speaker 0] have folks like J. Balvin who posted a video on instagram of him dancing with a black woman and saying, black lives matter followed by Latino lives matter and then all lives matter. You had Carol g posting a picture of her dog. The has, like, black and white for being like this is a perfect mixture of races, and we can all get along. And then you had the ultra horrible cringe e gas Kuol. A kind of response. The was, um, all about how black folks in Puerto Rico aren’t like black folks in the US They don’t come from the same place. They don’t have the same problems and discounting kind of black experiences of racism in Puerto Rico. So you have that on the one hand, and then you have complete silence. So we saw a lot of silence from, you know, Bad Bunny, for instance, who’s been? I’ve spoken on a number of issues, including gender and sexuality, but did not speak out until very late on these questions of black lives matter. So what

[0:13:13 Speaker 1] do you

[0:13:14 Speaker 0] see this happening here? Can you break down How can we think about these responses?

[0:13:20 Speaker 1] I feel like these artists are products of their environment. And I don’t say that lightly because I feel like every single person, every individual on this planet, they’re responsible for themselves. No. So, yes, you have a team around you who’s supposed toe tell you, you know what’s right and wrong is what PRS air for. And but to another extent, you know you are responsible for yourself. And what you know what you don’t know, right? So I’ll just go ahead and start there because I’ve been in these situations and these conversations since, uh, you know this article where people sort of look at me like gotta What did you dio gotta, you know, how do I not not be racist? I’m so scared of cancel culture, you know? And quite frankly, I hate cancel culture myself. I feel like essentially this is ah, product off. And Messi saw him. Nobody had to care until now until the finger was pointed onto the industry at large. Nobody cared about if Negroes were included or excluded from Latynina, right? There’s always this lateral terrazas or me mostly, you know, the creamy now Or, you know, like thes thes unification, freaking speeches that are tight until these mass branding is, and ultimately, gaslights the experiences of black Latinos. I say this, Yes, as a consumer, I say this on behalf of the artists were Indian screen who have told me income fiancee, that they don’t feel comfortable speaking on negritude and their pride for negritude and the presence of so many Blanco’s because, you know, it’s it’s the balance is there’s a huge imbalance in regards to who’s behind a lot of these artists. Essentially, I don’t make light of George Boys that because it is ridiculously violent and ridiculously traumatizing. I am aware of police brutality myself. Eso I don’t say the following lightly, but granted this moment in this market in this industry is it’s an opportunity to really hold the mirror up words and really look inside it and dive deep into what it is that we know and don’t know. Collectively and individually, there’s there’s really so much more to say. Essentially, we need to start, and I say we because yes, there are blank. Ito’s, who fail to acknowledge exempts the existence gives me of Negroes on the other hand, there is a sort of anti blackness within the black community as well. Should they be compared? Absolutely not, because one of one is structural. The others individual, you know they can’t compare. But on the other hand, it is to speak volumes as to the amount of work that there is to dio. No, because there’s a lot of people who subscribe to thes issue these, uh, thes brand ings of Latina that in order to gaslight themselves into thinking that the world isn’t as bad as we know it isn Oh, my, my mom. I think of her when I say this because I, you know, she had to teach her on on 13th of Ava Duvernay and stuff like that. You know, like it’s it’s something that you know. There’s multiple layers here that needs to be analyzed. And essentially, I’m very grateful for this moment in that. Now the mirror is up, people are looking out, and you know, I hope that you know, there’s a less of a fear of cancel culture or saying the wrong thing, because there needs to be an honesty throughout this process of re educating

[0:16:58 Speaker 0] right and I

[0:16:58 Speaker 1] think this is

[0:16:59 Speaker 0] so critical, this kind of question because I think this came up during the kind of discussions over this summer, right? Like J. J. Balvin put up that post and got kind of roasted online for it. And his kind of response was, You know, you all critique me. But you know, one’s teaching me, right? And so I think there’s this way in which, you know, you use this phrase that their products of their environment right, And there is this sense, right, this kind of dominant mode of Latina God, there is about, um, this notion as if there’s no information out there about blackness, right? There’s no information, but this kind of messed isa. Hey, discourse around racial mixing and racial harmony and all of this kind of stuff that, you know, we don’t need to talk about blackness because everybody’s black because everybody’s mixed, right? It includes thes kind of structural, um, problems of racism, right within, um, Latin American and Latino context. Right? And so this notion that, like, um, somebody needs whose responsibility is it to do that work right? And this notion that, um, the onus is on black folks to do that work right? This became a kind of major attention that I think came up this summer, right where there was pushback on a lot of these white, Latino or Latin American artists. Toby accountable, Right for interrogating, even if they’re coming up with in this kind of environment of this dominant mode of messages a and Latina Lod Thio. To really interrogate that, right? And I think some artists kind of did that and and some didn’t write and some kind of acted like that. Information is new to them, right? This is kind of what we saw a little bit in that interview with Bad Bunny, where he was like, it never occurred to me that Diego Calderon was marginalized in any way within within the industry. Right, because I think he’s the man on not kind of see being completely blind right to some of those kind of structural, um in inequalities that are happening right? So, you know, I think there’s there’s a lot that’s happening to in terms of also connecting what I think these debates around, like canceling Latina. That right Do we cancel Latino? Do we need something new right if Latina, that is, uh, kind of it reproduces these exclusions. Right? So I was thinking also, you know, if you want to share your thoughts on this also, I think one of the questions that you know, you’re talking about this moment of opportunity or for at least transforming kind of the dominant paradigms in the genre. Right? And so, you know, one of the things I’ve been

[0:19:37 Speaker 1] thinking

[0:19:37 Speaker 0] about this question of, like, Latino gang, right? And who fits in tow, Latino gang and how that’s kind of something that that this moment is, You know, I think giving us a chance to kind of think about or push back on. What do you think about that?

[0:19:52 Speaker 1] Um, such a hard question. No. Sorry. And there was, like, 500 different parts to it, but one of them you

[0:20:02 Speaker 0] want to take go for

[0:20:03 Speaker 1] it? It’s cool. It’s cool. I’m glad that you brought up Latino gang because I feel like I feel like there’s a part to it that actually comes from a good place. Right. Um, you know, we are a collectivist IQ culture and in individualistic society, at least here in the United States, no It’s why there’s so much emphasis on branding ourselves as you know, Unidos la Familia and, you know, etcetera. So I feel like, you know, there’s a part of me who is guilty of, uh, you know, wanting to like Latino Game. But what’s the problem? The problem is anti negritude. You know, the problem is anti Negra through. Some people won’t even say the word black. You know, that’s where we have to start. Some people, you know, like bad bunny at, um, admitting. And I’m so grateful that he admitted that, right? So everybody can read that people can process that. This, you know, you’re gonna look at I don’t wanna call him. Why? What does he have about? I don’t know what word to use. You know he’s whiter than me, Okay? They’re like Kato, for all intents and purposes, with everything I just said was clueless, you know, having grown up on the island as to the experience of that of Tego Calderon, who also grew up on the island, You know, off people around him who have this completely different experience. No, I feel like essentially a Latino gang. It’s cute, right? It’s cute. I can you know it’s cute, but essentially like the bottom line is and Teen agree Through is so pervasive in this culture it’s so frowned upon. It’s It’s so misunderstood by blank goals. Just so I’m clear, because Negroes we don’t have that luxury of not knowing that were black, right? I know it every time I walk into a bodega and the guys talking to me in English when I talked to him in Spanish, right? And that’s here in the United States, in Panama. It might not be that, but I might be followed around the bank, right? I might be kicked out of the bank for being to Africa for showing my shoulders right. You know, it shows itself in different ways, and there’s this gaslighting. Like I said before that we do to ourselves to kind of, you know, tell ourselves that the world isn’t as bad and Latino Gang essentially fees into that because it’s like, oh, to save a K A. The end of the day We’re Latinos, so life is great. You know, Andi, it’s like, Okay, it might be for you, but it might very well is not for a lot of Negroes? No, Um e I feel you because I think it is

[0:22:47 Speaker 0] this question to the work that that does, right? It is this kind of marker to say, like tech knowledge, right, Latinos. Latino artists are in some ways marginalized within mainstream recording, right, the mainstream music industry. So we saw a lot of this organizing around, you know, the Latin Grammys and the marginalization of Gaetan or Urbano, whatever kind of folks want. And we can get into that kind of discussion about Obama in a minute to, But, you know, I think there’s a way right in which that flags right, that that position where Latino artists aren’t given access to the same kind of resource is or airplane and stuff like that. But then it does cover up. I think those kind of inequalities that you’re flagging right that exists, exists within the Latino community, right? It reinforces this notion of, um, all Latinos experiencing that structural inequality in the same way, right? And we know that you know, Daddy Yankee versus Don Omar or work a little and they’re not experiencing the music industry in the same way, right? Or accessing the music industry in the same way.

[0:23:53 Speaker 1] I love what you just mentioned in the acknowledgement of, you know, structural reason, because I feel like that’s a solid place where I can land to there. I’ve had multiple and I mean multiple conversations with blanket those in the industry recently, and I’ll give you, I guess, an insider, because I mean, what the heck after George Boy was killed after I wrote this article, I found myself in multiple. I mean multiple zoom calls with executives all over the Latin music industry. What do we do? And, you know, there’s been professors. There’s been black artists who have taken on all of these all of this emotional labor to pretty much explain to these widows these blank Ito’s what structural racism is. And they got me around. A part of me wasn’t shocked, But another part of me is like, Damn, you know, like this speaks volumes as to the lack of access, the lack of representation, you know, it just it solidifies everything that we all know. It’s true right there. No Negras get why people don’t see it as a problem. People don’t understand that structural racism exists. They don’t understand that it translates not only just from the U. S. But that is global know that it is something that exists in Latin America as well. It might be in different nuances in different contexts as well, but it’s very pervasive. Scuse me in the Latin music industry as well, you know? And so essentially, you know, moving even into the You know, the concept of Obama, right, which I have express that I am trying to get rid of in my vocabulary what that stems from essentially and what that was inspired from is, you know, Republic records their statement. They said, You know what? We can do more to diversify the genres of which we represent. We are artists. We’re no longer using it. I said Yes, This is the moment where Latin music industry can. You can do this stuff as well. Why not? Right, if we’re canceling Latina Don, If we’re trying to better ourselves and have more honest conversations about what’s being created and what’s not, why not? You know, on dso I I make the suggestion of El Movimiento because it’s not as foreign as you know. One would think What do we say? El Movimiento Cubano. We’re just cutting off for Bond. You know, I feel like it, you know, down the road. It can really play a testament to the dignity that go into all of these individuals, genres that are constantly trying to be fused in together, right? People want toe, get on in Marengo together so bad and not even allow both genres to exist in the same plane like my okay all did so long ago. And and to allow it toe have its dignity in the process, right? It ends up being a pop, you know, all for the sake of Latino that I know there’s people who still don’t understand this concept off. You know, the different sub genres that Gadahn has really been able to put out into the world because of this formula that, you know, that is very pervasive. Now I call it a papa. Don’t you know, I feel like and I don’t mean to rent e feel like essentially, there’s just so much education that needs to be done on all different levels. And really, what’s sad is that ah, lot of these people in positions of power there, you know, so powerful that they have the option to opt out of this conversation to really gaslight person such as myself, and to thinking that, you know, this isn’t a real problem or, you know, deterring me from trying to even have this type of conversation and because it boils down to money. This is industry. This is, you know, people are after the dollars. But to that, I say and I always say it. Hip hop is worth $10 million right? According to the R A and the Latin music industry. Apparently we just completed with $550 million which don’t get me wrong. That’s not a nickel. That’s more than I have right now. But granted, when we compare it, that’s a percentage, you know. And since Rajasthan is a son of your daughter of hip hop, why aren’t we trying to make these steps in to making it more inclusive, more out spoken mawr, you know, diverse, you know, and to not token eyes artists in the process, because I’m seeing a lot of that lately, too. I know that I felt I won’t be that song, but I felt like it was really good timing. No I feel like that was perfect timing for the situation. Yeah, so let’s get into that

[0:28:34 Speaker 0] point about kind of token izing, right? Because I think that’s one of the things that has been a persistent problem, I think for black artists within the genre, right way saw that happened with the goal, right? So anytime anyone wants to talk about blackness and how to get on there talking about Diego, right, um, and and And he becomes this kind of singular standing right? And we could talk about it in the same way that people, when they want to talk about gender and how to get out and talk about evil queen, right, she becomes this kind of singular standing, right? Um, which I think speaks to this impulse that you’re talking about right where we have to think about the music industry, right? And the ways in which the music industry also structures who’s allowed a place at the table. But, you know, you said something. You did this excellent kind of interview in this Washington Post piece that came out that will link to in the show notes. But one of the things that you talked about and that was You want to stop having to mention such a Z, the only artist like alright, always having to talk about the work that he’s doing right in terms of, you know, talking about black lives matter or being visible as a black artist, Um, in the genre, right? So that this problem of of token ization has been ah, persistent one. And what can we do about this? What do you What are your thoughts on this?

[0:29:54 Speaker 1] You know, I feel like this is one of the questions I I’ve been I’ve really been stuck on because on one end you want such to get all his flowers, But on the other end, you don’t want him. Thio. I’m laughing at how Maney adds. I’m seeing him in on my phone. You know, just this this year alone, and it’s like you want him to get his flowers. You don’t want him toe get his flowers. Just because of this, What he’s creating is excellent. So you want the accident to speak for itself. But unfortunately it’s the scales are so imbalanced that you know this is what’s going to continue to happen. So we ADM or black people, right? We ADM or black artists and then they’ll they’ll do that to like, kind of like, shut us up. You see, way add more and more more nationals like you see, like they’re getting their awards left and right, you know, And it’s like, this is I don’t know how to answer this question. I’m gonna keep it honest with you because I feel like diversity is not the answer. It goes way past that. You know, I really don’t know how to answer this question. And honestly, it saddens me because, you know, essentially, if only it were that easy No, I can only imagine what someone as dark and I don’t call him that. I call him Fluffy. As Fluffy as such is experiencing, you know, as Goyo chuck it down. You know, Rafa, Bob. Oh, I see him rising. But I’m questioning why, you know, And if people are saying for every, you know, I love my threads on Twitter for every 100 lanky tas you see like a oil, you know, it’s it’s a very difficult question to answer. And that’s that’s where my, my mind This if I’m going to speak honestly,

[0:31:41 Speaker 0] Yeah. So you mentioned Goyo. So let’s talk about this. Kind of, you know, there’s a way in which we’re talking about black artists being marginalized as head Agathon has gone pop, right? But black women are hit doubly hard by this, right? This kind of exclusion that exists within the genre, right? So it’s not only kind of, um we see these racial exclusions, but also, it’s a historic what’s historically been a male dominated genre, right? It’s, um So there can we get into some of these challenges the black women are facing in the genre? Because, I mean, this has come up right with Rosalia, right? And her kind of, um, rise to fame. And, you know, folks kind of pointing out the way, which was easy for her to break into the scene as someone who is, uh, you know, white artists from Spain who saying up until recently, you know, kind of fusion flamenco music, right? So it was easier for her to break into the genre than a lot of black women have experienced in the genre. So what do you make of this

[0:32:53 Speaker 1] black women in this industry? Wow. First of all, the Masada nor black women in general and in the Latin American context, in the Latino context, we are not humanized. We’re not humanized. We’re not seeing us dainty. We’re not seeing a desirable where an afterthought. You know, Lana Grace. You know, it’s it’s derogatory. It’s were so vulgar without doing anything. We don’t have any innocents, Children and women alike. There’s there’s no innocents ever. You know, black women. We don’t we don’t stand a chance. We can’t even be in the front of music videos. We gotta be off the side, you know to say that, you know? Yes, we included one. There’s diversity. Aren’t you happy? You know, like we have to always accept the bare minimum. Go yo. I am grateful Toe have interviewed her recently and to touch base basis with her and really understand how she’s feeling in this moment because she’s another one. She’s getting her flowers, but I have to question why she’s also questioning why I, outwardly the actor, How do you feel about token izing? And you know she’s She’s responded to me directly that you know she’s an agreement. Diversity is not enough, you know, because if you don’t see black women. You can’t understand black women. Therefore, you can’t respect black women. And that’s essentially what’s happening in That’s what happens in Latino culture in this industry, in this market, in this music.

[0:34:17 Speaker 0] All right, so you know, we’re running. We’re running out of time. I feel like I wish we had, like, 10 hours more to get in tow. All of this because this has been so fantastic. And, you know, I always feel like I learned s o much from you. So I’m really grateful for the conversation. So

[0:34:34 Speaker 1] before we wrap up,

[0:34:35 Speaker 0] is there anything um, you wanted to tell folks out there that are listening to this podcast? Um, any last words

[0:34:44 Speaker 1] I would like to say to really try to put yourself into the shoes of these black creatives. A few that exists in this market to really you know? Yes. Hold them accountable. I’m not saying to praise nonsense. No, uh, but to really give them their flowers when the moments present themselves, because they deserve all of the support that they can get because it is minimal, you know, eh? So that the industry can see that it’s not just them putting an effort to shut up the naysayers, but that the people actually want this and and that’s what else could

[0:35:25 Speaker 0] Awesome. Thank you so much. Got that, Uh,

[0:35:27 Speaker 1] tell folks

[0:35:28 Speaker 0] where they can find you on social media. What? Give them your twitter handles. Just because I feel like you got one of the best Twitter’s out there right now for talking about these issues around kind of Latino race ahead of Britain. All of this.

[0:35:44 Speaker 1] Oh, Marisol, you’re too nice for those of you tuning in. You can find my work on all social media platforms at her great Uncle Agata. Bilingual podcast. Basically commentary. Uh, Barrio San Antonio. No. One. No one is in English and Spanish. Check out great uncle Agata dot com where I’m basically putting the inner workings of my brain into multiple pages. Thank you. Thank you

[0:36:09 Speaker 0] so much. And thank you for taking the time out. This is really fantastic. No,

[0:36:14 Speaker 1] thank you. Thank you so much.

[0:36:17 Speaker 0] Thanks. Hi. All things is actually novel. Botero’s the communications associate. A Latino studies. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. Make sure to check out the Latino studies Instagram page. Follow us at Latino studies. You t to keep the conversation