Ep. 41 – Asserting Humanity Through Art

[00:00:00] Julio Salgado: I remember I made this piece that I actually got a little bit in trouble with, you know, with other immigrants. I made this image because they were trying to pass a version of the Dream Act, which shows the army component of it. I remember saying, F you, like, I’d rather stay undocumented than, you know, You know, go to war just to get papers and I draw this student in a cap and gown because the cap and gown became the sort of symbol of the undocumented student or the dreamer, as we were being called because of the Dream Act.

And, and I remember making this drawing of the student with giving up the middle finger and, you know, a lot of, a lot of students or a lot of other immigrant immigration activists were like, Julio, You can’t do that. Like, you know, we essentially saying that we need to be good immigrants and, um, and images like that could make us look bad.

And I was just like, you know, like that’s when it sort of started dawning on me this sort of narrative of being a good immigrant and, and, and having to combine this country of our humanity.

[00:01:12] Intro: Welcome to LatinXperts Podcast, produced by Latino Studies, a powerhouse of Latinx thought and advocacy at the University of Texas at Austin, where our mission is to create space to explore and understand the lives of Latinos in the U. S. while using our knowledge and resources to support communities everywhere.

[00:01:41] Alfonso Ayala: It has been said before that art is how we justify our existence. There is a long history of using art to tell stories and reflect the human experience, particularly among those that have typically been relegated to the margins. In today’s podcast, we’ll explore just how visual art can be a powerful tool to convey stories and messages, particularly when creators are from groups that are often silenced by dominant discourses of power and hegemony.

My name is Alfonso Ayala, and I’m a PhD student in UT’s Mexican American and Latina Latino Studies department. Today, I’ll be in conversation with Julio Salgado, who rose to fame for his work in 2012 on the I Am UndocuQueer project with the Queer Undocumented Immigrant Project. I first discovered Julio’s work a few years back, and during my time as a master’s student at San Jose State University, fell in love with his many vibrant portrayals of queer, undocumented life.

I’m really excited to talk with Julio today about his journey to activism, how he understands art as working alongside other forms of activism, the importance of queer representation in artwork, and the future of queer art and activism. Julio, thank you so much for being with us here today. I’d love to have you start by sharing a little bit about yourself with us.

[00:02:56] Julio Salgado: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Alfonso. Um, wow, uh, where, where to start? Um, well, yeah, uh, you know, you, you, you kind of touch on, on a little bit of the work that I do, uh, as, as a, as an artist. I, you know, I, a lot of my work, It’s very informed, informed by, you know, the communities that I am part of, uh, one of them, you know, being an immigrant, an undocumented immigrant.

At that, um, I am also queer, and so being, you know, being undocumented and queer really has had a huge influence in the work that I put out there, um, whether it be by, you know, to, I can’t, I can’t stay silent when I hear, you know, Things being said about our communities. Um, and I am by no means an organizer of like rallies and marches that, you know, we’ve all been part of, but I, I could draw, I could put together a message, I could put together a poster.

And so I, that, that, that’s how I’ve sort of been able to, you know, Put in my, you know, to send in the conversation around us, right. Which is, I think it’s very important when a conversation is happening around us, that we are the ones also shaping. And I keep saying that I don’t want to be reactive to the way that people talk about us, but I can’t help it.

And so, so yeah, I’ve been doing this for a very long time. I’ve been drawing since I was a little kid. And I was born in Entonada, Mexico. And, yeah, I was always, always the kid who was drawing. And, and even when we came to the, to the US, I, I sort of, uh, I was, I found myself in this art class in, in the seventh grade.

That, you know, when I, when I moved to the, to, to Long Beach, California. And, and I remember my teacher at the time, she was like, Ms. Gaynor, you know, that was her name. And, and she was like, Oh, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re good at this. You should, you know, you should encourage that. Um, and I haven’t stopped ever since, you know, from, uh, you know, through high school, I was part of the art class, yearbook staff, um, Um, I was always that drawing and, you know, doing the, in the group, you know, whenever we had group work, um, the, the kids would be like, Oh, he’s the one that could draw.

So let’s have him be part of our group, uh, uh, work then. So, yeah, I, I, uh, I’ve been doing this for a long time. I can’t imagine not doodling or sketching every day. And I’m just so happy that I’m able to do it in a way now that So many folks being to, you know, gravitate to the work that I do. It’s, it’s weird and it’s beautiful at the same time.

[00:06:03] Alfonso Ayala: Shout out to miss Gaynor. We love a supportive editor.

[00:06:06] Julio Salgado: Yeah. The Gaynor who I, I saw. Yeah. So she was my seventh grade teacher. And then when I was a senior in high school, I was part of this, um, after school program where. We were, we did a mural in downtown Long Beach, um, and, and she was, she was part of the teachers and I was like, Miss Gaynor, do you remember me?

I’m Julio. And she was like, Hi, how are you? I guess she, she didn’t remember. And I wonder, I wonder what she’s doing now. I once in a while, I think about Miss Gaynor.

[00:06:36] Alfonso Ayala: Miss Gaynor, if you’re listening, reach out to Julio. Um, I, I’ve heard you share elsewhere that at one point in time you were an art major, but hated it and, um, you know, and transitioned to journalism, which is where you discovered how your art could take different shape.

Um, so I’m just wondering if you can share a little bit more about that, about your journey to understanding art as activism, um, you know, your, your political cartoons, kind of how you understood that as a place where you could make some change.

[00:07:07] Julio Salgado: Oh my god, art, it could be so dramatic. I hated it. No, I mean, I, I think, you know, the, the experience of being an art student, and I’m sure any art student listening to this could relate, um, you know, there’s something about, A, it’s so expensive, and being, you know, And undocumented college students with no access to financial aid was even harder at that time.

We’re talking in 2001. That was when I, when I graduated, I graduated from high school in 2001. And, uh, I quickly enrolled in, in an art class that summer of 2001. And I. You know, there was something beautiful about being around other creative, but when you, before that, my teachers like Ruth Gaynor and, uh, and, and, and Mr.

Degree, my, my, my high school art teacher, um, they were always encouraging and like, follow your, your creative, you know, your creative bone or whatever. Uh, uh, I don’t think creative bone, anyways, follow your creativity. Um, and. And so I get to this place, you know, and literally one of the first assignments that I will never forget being just so like it is for me, we have to do a self portrait using, um, you know, like, uh, forget what they call like grids, you know, where you take, you know, a square, like square to like do self portrait.

I, I met the day before where they explained the assignment, and so I showed up the following, uh, class day, and I was like, that day I was feeling so, you know, like, I was feeling angsty or whatever, I was 17, I hadn’t turned 18 yet, so, you know, she was still a teenager. And I was going through my mood and I wanted to draw the bottom part of my body like it was melting.

So I finished my work, we do a student critique, and then the professor comes over and he’s just sort of like, I want everybody to look at Julio’s work. And I’m over here like, oh my god, he’s gonna say I’m the best artist. And he’s like, this is what happens when you try to show off and you don’t follow instructions.

And you know, like you, you, I should, I remember being Feeling so embarrassed and feeling so like whatever happened to creativity whatever happened to that, right? And so I I should I felt that I don’t know like Maybe it was something that, like, to my artistic ego or whatever, but I just, I’m like, I’m paying a lot of money for this, for somebody to tell me that I’m horrible.

And, you know, I was a show off. And it was, it was, it was a turn off. Um, and then I was going to, you know, I was taking my art history classes. And I, you know, we were learning about a bunch of old white dudes. And I I was, I was bored, you know, it was, it was really boring to me. Um, it wasn’t what I thought being an artist was supposed to be.

In hindsight, I should have, you know, like, I’ll be something about art history. I know the, you know, the basics, but you know, and, and when it comes to the, the skills of, you know, like, you know, I could, I guess I could have like, you know, gone through the whole thing. Right. But. I was lucky that I found a flyer on campus, uh, Lumbee city college.

That’s where I went to. And, um, And they were the, the, the journalism department of the, the newspaper, actually the, the, the Viking newspaper was looking for a political artist. And I was like, I could, I could do that. I have, you know, opinions. And so I, I joined the school newspaper. And, and that’s where, you know, like I have to draw like I was drawing, I was illustrating articles.

And this is what I was like, what my idea of an art student was supposed to be. And, you know, and, and I, I fell in love with journalism. I quickly, I, you know, I eventually transferred to Cosby Long Beach and I transfer as a journalism major. Um, and, you know, if any student, you know, hearing out there and just, you know, shouting out the art student.

Um, if you want to get your work out there, I know now with Instagram and the Twitter and the, um, you know, there’s so there’s a plethora of ways to showcase your artwork, but if you want to get like published, if you can join the school newspaper, um, the magazine, please like do that because they’re always looking for creatives and that’s the way for you to work with others, collaborate with others.

And, and it really, it really made me fall in love with them. So I quickly, I, I changed my major to journalism. And I also started writing a little more and, and, you know, it was, it was, I fell back to going, you know, like my, my, my journalism, uh, professors would, you know, encourage me. To like read and learn and write if something is interesting to you, like go for it, go for it.

And so I, I felt very, um, pushed and, and, and, you know, I was also very lucky to, around that time, uh, Gustavo Arellano, who is now an editor of the LA times, he had a, he had a, um, a column at that time at the OFI weekly. Call ask a Mexican and hilarious if you Google ask a Mexican, uh, you know, basically why people would send really racist questions about Mexicans.

And he would like answer, you see humor and educating the people. But I reached out, I remember, you know, he wrote this piece about an undocumented student. And that was the first time that I saw someone writing about undocumented immigrants in a very humane way. And so I reached out to Gustavo. And I was like, Hey, I’m looking, I’m, I’m, I’m a journalist, a major, uh, can you be my mentor?

And he eventually became my mentor. And yeah, to this day, um, you know, I’ve been really lucky to have collaborated with him in a couple of things. And so I, I, you know, you never know who is out there who wants to help, but there’s a lot of people who want to help you. And so it’s just about asking, asking for help.

Right. And so I should spell in this sort of like, you know, journalism. You know, like just the way that a lot of students are still eager to put out their ideas now with, again, now with technology, like anybody could be, which is, I don’t know if it’s a good idea, uh, but, you know, it’s, there’s something great about being able to have an idea, you know, and have somebody support you.

And help you get that idea out there. Not even now, as I do, I do, uh, uh, another comic strip call a good immigrant, bad immigrant for Delos, which is a, um, a Latinx, um, you know, uh, uh, part of the LA time. And I’m so lucky for, you know, to have an editor who like helps me and, you know, look at my work, right?

Like that’s the beauty about writing and working with others. You know, you work with people who make your, um, your work better. And so, so yeah.

[00:14:04] Alfonso Ayala: Yeah. Thank you. And, um, you said that was in like the early 2000s, right? When you were having that experience.

[00:14:11] Julio Salgado: Yeah, like 2003, 2000, but I started, I started community college, God, like, you know, not long ago, but yeah, 2000, 2003, 2000, 2003, uh, those were my, my, I would say journalism is my thing.

[00:14:26] Alfonso Ayala: Yeah, I think, um, thank you for sharing that. I, I think for many people, Uh, your work started coming into spotlight in 20, 2012, right? With your I Am UndocuQueer project. Um, that was a collaborative art project that you did with the Undocumented Queer Youth Collective, really showcasing images of queer undocumented folks.

I’m wondering if you can share a little bit more about how that series of artwork came to be and why it was important to you to have queer undocumented identity portrayed through art.

[00:14:59] Julio Salgado: Yeah, those pieces were very popular. You know, I was lucky that in, uh, uh, Cosby Long Beach, you know, we were, we did, we started, uh, uh, a group on campus.

called F. U. E. L. E. Future Underrepresented Educated Leaders. Uh, and that was undocumented students getting together and, and, and, and just supporting each other. And so by the time that I left, you know, college in 2010, uh, there was a lot of, That year was really pivotal for a lot of us who were trying to pass the DREAM Act, which would have allowed undocumented students, you know, a path to citizenship if we went to college or joined the military, but we were really pushing for the college aspect.

And so that year, um, there was a lot of people who were doing civil disobediences, a lot of people who were just, you know, You know, saying, if you’re going to talk about undocumented immigrants, you need to look at us in the face and really taking from the coming out of the closet, you know, the, just saying the more of us that come out as undocumented, we’ll have a community, right?

And we, we started, I, I, here I was sort of with this degree in journalism and I was like, Oh my God, what this students are doing is. So groundbreaking, but we need to make sure and document this. And so while I couldn’t work because I didn’t have a word permit, my, again, this is 2010, this is before DACA. Um, I was like, I took to Facebook and started making this images to sort of document what was happening.

And what I noticed was that a lot of the people putting this, you know, sit in and a lot of the actions that were happening to out them 10. They happen to be queer, right? And so, You know, even at that, you know, the, the, the group that we started, uh, and on campus there was like so many of us that were queer and, and I don’t know, there’s something about, like, straight people could learn a lot from queer people in terms of like, you know, being able to survive in a world that you already know that this is not going to be for you, so you figure out an alternative, right?

And so, you know, Um, I think for a lot of us, coming out was just so, you know, easy, and staying, we were undocumented, it, it, it became, it became this thing where now you saw straight undocumented people coming out of the closet and kind of having, I’m not saying it’s the same thing, but kind of having the similar experience of coming out of a closet, right?

Like, who are you going to trust with this secret? Is there going to be people who are going to support you? Um, you could get deported, right? Like, there’s so many things that were very similar that, that people started using that term undocumented queer. I, I’ve been credited with coming up with that term.

I did not. I thought I saw it. Um, you know, and, and if anything, I helped sort of popularize it by making this images. I actually started making the images in 2011. Um, and, and really my way of, the way that I did those images was like, I’m an undocumented and queer man from California. I’m sure my experience is very different from somebody who is in the South, somebody who’s in the Midwest, somebody who’s in, you know, New York.

And, and I literally just put on Facebook, if you’re undocumented and queer, hit me up. I want to make images. And, and I, you know, I really wanted to You know, pay homage to the queer folks that were behind a lot of these movements and putting all this, you know, whether it be workshops about knowing your rights, you know, you always had women and queers who were very bringing us together.

And so, um, I, I started making those images and, and I, I honestly, you would have to go into my Facebook. I should know this by memory, but I don’t remember how many images I made, but I mean, I made a lot and, and, and, and the magic of the internet and it, this is what happens with a lot of the work that I do is that once you put them out there, they should either go viral or they get like three lines, you know, you never know.

And, and, and that’s what happened with, with a lot of those images and even a lot of the images that I made. about being undocumented, you know, they, they should sort of, I think, I think a lot of, a lot of us who are undocumented, a lot of people who are undocumented would message me and they were like, Oh my God, you’re saying the thing that I’m thinking, or I remember I made this piece that I actually got a little bit in trouble with.

the, you know, with other immigrants. I made this image because they were trying to pass a version of the dream act, which, uh, the, the army component of it, you know, they wanted to get away the, and, and I remember. I was like, can I curse? I don’t know if I can curse. I remember saying F you, like, I rather stay undocumented than, you know, go to war just to get papers.

And I, I draw the cap, the student in a cap and gown because the cap and gown became the sort of symbol of the undocumented student or the dreamer as we were being called because of the dream act. And, and I remember making this drawing of the student with giving up the middle finger. And, and, you know, a lot of, a lot of students or a lot of other immigrant immigration activists were like, Julio, you can’t do that.

Like, you know, we essentially saying that we need to be good immigrants and, um, and images like that could make us look bad. And I was just like, you know, like that’s when it sort of started dawning on me this sort of. Uh, the narrative of being a good immigrant and, and, and having to convince this country for humanity, I’m sorry, but at this point, I’m like, if you already don’t see me as a human, I’m not, I’m not going to convince you otherwise, right?

Like, I, I just, I can’t, I can’t live my life trying to convince others of my existence of, or, or my humanity. And there’s other people who have the patience for that, but I, I, I can’t, I can’t do that anymore. We did it for a couple of years. We, we tried saying America, we’re good immigrant, you know, it, it really dawned on me that, uh, when you’re, when you’re an immigrant, uh, and you’re trying to combine, um, You’re trying to convince other of your humanity.

It, it, it could be really harmful, right? Like, you know, it’s, it’s this, this idea that we cannot make mistakes. Um, it, it, it’s try being perfect, right? Right, right. Ooh, uh, should, because you were born in this country, you get to make mistakes, but I don’t, right. And so I, I think that trying to demystify that idea.

Uh, how, you know, those were sort of the early me beginnings of trying to do that with this image that, that caught controversy within the immigrant rights movement and people that, you know, other, other dreamers who, who really, you know, You know, we’re trying really hard and I understand, I understand the, the wanting to, to be a good, you know, person to, you know, eventually one day get your papers, but I’m like, baby, you know, it’s really a lot of the time and not in our power because there are people who truly hate us and, and, you know, they’re going to, they’re going to do their, their, their best to, to To try to make it impossible for us to live.

Right. And so I, I think I’m, I’m very thankful for my art to be able to, you know, kind of, you know, deal with, with all of that stuff, um, in a, in a way that, that is, you know, that gets the point across in a, in a piece of, in a, you know, in a piece of art or, or a drawing or, or, or, you know, a blog post or whatever.

I think, I think that the most important part is that. You know, our mental health, you holding on to a lot of this stuff, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, studies show that stress, it’s bad for you and, and, and I think, if anything, as, as immigrants, we are, we are dealing with it in, in, in, in many ways, um, to, a lot of the time it’s not even Not because we were seeing it with DACA, right?

Like when we got DACA, it was only the students. Our parents didn’t benefit from that. Um, and you know, I’m like, why, why should we censor ourselves and, and, and speaking our truth because, because we’re afraid of speaking up and, and, and, and so, yeah, so like, I, I, I’m, I’m very grateful for folks who messaged me and they’re like, keep doing that Julio, because that’s exactly how I feel.

And, and, and so I’m gonna do it until. Until the Instagram shuts down like Zoom did right now. Right, right.

[00:24:14] Alfonso Ayala: Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I think one of the things that most compels me about your work is, is how vibrant it is, right? Like there’s, there’s almost this hyper visibility that gets portrayed, right?

Um, kind of being really, uh, loud in whether that’s in, The portrayal of queerness or loud in the portrayal of, uh, citizenship status, right? This, uh, refusal to kind of be overlooked, I think, is something that comes through really strongly in your work. Um, you know, one of my absolute favorite pieces from you is this drawing of a guardian angel.

Um, I can see it in your background right now. Um, you know, your Uncle Chicho looking over a young boy with the words, Queer guidance in a cruel world. Um, in both English and Spanish. Like so much of your work, there’s beautiful, bold, vibrant colors, purples, blues, red, larger than life sunflowers kind of offsetting and framing it as well.

The guardian angel is wearing this gorgeous deep violet robe, and both of you are enveloped in a gold outline as you’re walking across this bridge that appears to be missing one of the planks, right? And I’m just wondering if you can talk a little bit about this piece and how queerness and spirituality are connected for you.

Yes. Yeah. Um,

[00:25:33] Julio Salgado: Yeah. So I grew up Catholic, um, and you know, I was an altar boy. Uh, I actually, there was a point in my life in my early twenties, uh, where I wanted to be a priest. Like I literally went to the retreats that you go before you take a year off and like really try to think if, you know, if that’s the path for you, like I went that far, but then I stopped when I realized that, Oh, this idea that if you’re running away from a crime or if you’re a homosexual, you shouldn’t be doing this.

So I was like, perhaps being a priest is not my calling because they’re telling me that. I, you know, um, like a criminal, I cannot join you. Right. And then this was before sort of like the, you know, you know, like there were rumors about what would have been Catholic church. And I was like the, the hypocrite, the hypocrisy of, of telling, you know, uh, that we can’t be ourselves, but then hiding crime.

So like that all like was like, boom. Right. Like. I, I, I don’t want to be a priest, but, um, I, I always, you know, I do the, the sign of the cross every time I like, you know, get on the freeway or, you know, take up on a plane. And because I feel like I’m like culturally, there are things, uh, you know, that I did learn growing up as a Catholic where I like the good, you know, be, you know, I, I believe in, you know, helping others and I believe in, I do believe in, in, in something bigger than us.

Right. Right. And so. And in 2018, my, my uncle, my dear Chicho, uh, he unfortunately, uh, passed away. I’m sorry, my dear Tito. Uh, thank you. Uh, my dear Chicho, uh, was the first gay man I ever met. And, um, you know, growing up, having a gay uncle really opens your eyes to the possibilities of like, all right, you know, my family still talks to him.

Um, sure. There’s the rumors and there’s the, that he, he has about him being gay, but. I felt that he really, he really, you know, laid the floor plan for me to, by the time that I was ready to come out, it didn’t have to be this sort of like, I’m getting all my TLCF together to like, come out like it was just like, Oh yeah, I’m gay.

Uh, and that was because he made it possible, right? But growing up with, you know, and I never came out to my uncle because I, you know, he ended up self deporting before he passed away. He ended up self deporting back to Mexico because he was also undocumented. Um, you know, he moved to the US, uh, before I moved here, uh, in the, in the early nineties.

And, you know, I remember. I remember visiting him. We actually, when we were in transition between like, you know, family houses, when we moved here to the U S before finally landing to Long Beach. Um, we lived my mom, my sister and me, we lived in his studio apartment in East Hollywood. And. You know, I, you know, he would have like magazine, uh, uh, like the advocate and he would have, um, you know, like little, you know, like rainbow.

So there was like, you know, I was like, it’s okay, you know, it’s okay for me to exist. And as I grew older and. I was like, sort of figuring out my sexuality in my back of my head. I’m like, well, one day I’ll come out to him and while they will have this like conversation of what it’s like to be gay, right?

And then when he went back to Mexico. Um, and I couldn’t and, you know, I was like, well, when I get papers, when I get papers, I’ll, I’ll, you know, go back to Mexico and, and I’ll work on a documentary. I’ll work on a project with him. And unfortunately, he, he, you know, he left before I could, I could go back to Mexico.

And, and my aunt sent me this like package of photographs. And, and, and I remember thinking, You know, like I, you know, after my uncle path, I was still, you know, partying and drinking a lot. Um, and, and I always felt that, you know, my Tio Chicho really was that, you know, guardian angel that, you know, helped me sort of.

You know, not get into trouble because, you know, again, going back to like the perfect immigrant where you’re undocumented, you can get a DUI, you can do the things that people get into trouble, like you have to be a purple, very careful when you party, um, you know, because getting in trouble, it could mean literally getting deported, right?

And so. Um, I always felt that my uncle was that guardian angel, and, and I always, you know, again, I mentioned growing up Catholic, we all kind of grew up, if you’re Catholic, you grew up with that, you know, that image of the guardian angel with the two little kids riding across the, the bridge, that’s where the image comes from, um, I don’t know who the original artist of that, that is, I should have done my, uh, research better, but, you But, you know, I, I kept remembering that and I created the image and, and the brightness and the colors that I use a, because I’m a kid of the 90s and so, you know, Daria and the Simpsons were clearly a huge, you know, inspiration in my work.

Right. Also. I think about the realities of immigrants, of undocumented immigrants, that it’s, it’s, it’s sad, y’all, it’s like, it’s really, we are victims of the system, but within, within that reality, there’s also a lot of happiness, and a lot of, Yosimar Reyes talked a lot about undocumented joy, and, um, Shout out to Yosimar.

Yes, yeah, shout out to Yosimar, and, uh, and, and sort of, uh, I’m like, I’m going to, I’m going to use the bright colors. I’m going to use all of the, you know, people that, you know, talk crap about my work and make fun of it. You know, whether it’s the haters of people who like, you know, love to review art, uh, we’ll say that it reminds them of MS paint, but, you know, I’m like, I’m like, I, I really love the, the, the, the bright colors and, and we need more of that.

We need, we’re going to need that, you know, more than anything. Uh, I don’t, I don’t want to make my art sad. Or gray or, you know, I’m like the reality, it’s already too gray. And so I, I wanna, I lean into the, into being colorful. Um, you know, looking at this, I mentioned after my uncle passed away. My aunt sent me this package of photographs, and he essentially documented his life as an undocumented immigrant in the 90s.

So I have all these photographs that I’ve been using, um, and as a reminder of another kind of tragedy that happened to a lot of his friends during that time, right? Like, he lost a lot of his friends, and yet he was able to, there’s so much joy and laughter, And like partying, you know, and those photographs that I want, I, you know, I’m like, I come from a lineage of we are people who have suffered yet.

We’ve managed to find happiness, whether it be through going out, whether it being to like, you know, through jokes and dark humor, but we’ll be damned if we’re going to let others. ruin, you know, our joy. Um, even if we cannot control some of those things, right. That are happening outside in the world. Um, I’m going to continue to document the joy and, and, and, you know, so, so yeah, that that’s a huge inspiration of why I choose the brightness and the color.

[00:33:12] Alfonso Ayala: Yeah, thank you. So much resonates there, right? And I think, uh, one of the things I think I’m hearing you say is this understanding of joy being this, this deeply spiritual thing, right? To be able to tap in and hold on and express that joy. Um, and yeah, I, I remember when I was younger, my grandma would pin the Los Santos into my underwear, right?

So also like grew up in a very Catholic household. Um, Things have shifted since in terms of my understanding of spirituality, but similarly, I think really thinking about, uh, the loved ones before me that continue to protect is something that really resonates.

[00:33:50] Julio Salgado: I mean, come on. And like, she, like, I think, I mean, aside from the, you know, the, the, the messiness that the, uh, and the val crimes that the Catholic church, uh, has covered over the years, right.

Uh, aside from all of that, I remember being an altar boy and just sort of like the, the, the, the Broadway of it all the camp be the outfits, campy, campy, faggotry, everything I love. And like there was something. about being in front of like having everybody’s attention looking at you, right? Like in my head, like when I was younger, I was like, maybe I want to be an actor.

Maybe I want to be a Broadway. Don’t have talent for that. But there’s something about being able to. You know, have people look at the work that you do and, and, you know, like, you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a, there’s the artist in me that wants to be liked. And I love it when an image that I make creates a sort of, sort of, some sort of like discussion and says, yes, Julio, go up girl, you know, like all those things.

And, and, I don’t know, like, I remember, I’m like, maybe that boy pre youth liked to be pre youth, right, like, you know, like, they, like, the robes,

[00:34:57] Alfonso Ayala: Everything,

[00:34:58] Julio Salgado: Well, the crappiness, it’s, it’s, it’s gay, I love it.

[00:35:02] Alfonso Ayala: Yeah, you know, um, so I encountered this piece, actually, the one we’ve been talking about, um, At the Oakland Museum of California this past, uh, year and in the winter of 2023 in spring of 2024.

Mm-hmm. Right. It was part of an exhibit, um, that honored Malachi Montoya, uh mm-hmm. Who’s best known for his work with poster making during the Chicano movement. Um, so thinking about representation, right, and what it means to be, uh, a queer artist, uh, particularly in how strongly your art portrays queer joy in exuberance.

What does it mean for you? To be included in an exhibit honoring such a central figure to the Chicano movement.

[00:35:43] Julio Salgado: It’s truly an honor, but within that honor, uh, it, you know, like one of the, as I was thinking of what I, what, what I wanted to create, because aside from putting that piece, the, the, the Guardian Angel piece, um, I wanted to, to make, I was commissioned to make another piece, uh, for that show specifically.

And, and what I wanted to, to really delve into was how, you know, Malakia and other, you know, men, they were men of their time, right? And, And men like my father or like my grandfather, right? Like specifically Brown men. And after what happened during the elections, and of course I made this image before the results of the election and, you know, people were like, Oh my God, Latino men voted in high numbers for Trump.

I was like. Duh, like, do you not, do you not, no, yeah, you do not know, because there’s this idea of, you know, we will get into like the Democrats thinking that, you know, Latinos are, uh, you know, one thing, but, exactly, but, so I, you know, and, and even before that happened, I was like, I want to really make a piece that, that talked about.

You know, like, cause we were honoring this man, but I’m like, how do we also keep a lot of this man, uh, accountable? And I truly believe that that bars with our family, you know, it starts in the home, it starts with, it’s so easy to go online and say men are trash. Right. But I really, I really want us to step back and, and I think this is specifically a really good moment of.

Oh, I’m not gonna have conversations with my fa if you voted for Trump, like, I’m not talking to you, and I understand that feeling. But, I always say that if there’s space to have a conversation with your family about those things that, that really are harming us, that really harm us, do it, you know? And so, that piece that I made for that show is called Unlearning.

And I, I made, you know, I used photographs. I, you know, my, my dad, so I have my name, Julio was my dad, dad’s name. And Felix is my middle name is my mom’s dad’s name. Um, they, they passed away. And so we never took a picture with the, my dad and my two grandpas. So I recreated, uh, uh, that image. But I also recreated, I, I put in an image of me being a Boy Scout, and then another image of me, um, you know, during my little, uh, when I barely came out of the closet and I started going to the gay club, and how, uh, masculinely, if you were more masculine, you were more likely to like guys talking to you, but if you were too femme, you know, you, you know, all that, that, that whole dynamic that happened in gay life.

Thank you. And, and I’m like, where did that come from? Right? Like, we all have that, that, that, that toxic masculinity that we talk about as gay cis men. We all carry that with us. And I really wanted to explore that because I, you know, I, while I think it’s important to honor the work that people like Malakias have done, um, I also wanted to explore my own and Uh, confront my own, um, problematic behavior, uh, as a, you know, as a man who I can walk down the street, I never get called any homophobic slurs, but I have my friends who are a little more femme who, you know, do have to deal with that.

Right? And so I think, again, right? Like, I think I was very lucky that, you know, the Oakland Museum really let me play and, and, and, and, you know, even as part of that piece, I don’t know if you got to see the, you know, video that I did with my dad. I, I, I did a little interview with my father, uh, with the Oakland museum.

And, and I wanted to, you know, cause people meet my dad and people are like, Oh my God, your dad is so cool. He’s so like, open about you being gay. And I was like, Girl, it didn’t happen. There was a lot of work that went into that man. There was a lot of work that went into my father from both my mom, me, my sister.

Right. And, and so I, I really. I really am, I’m an open book and I love to bring my family into things like this and I told my dad what I, the piece that I was working on, I’m like, it’s about confronting and unlearning the behaviors that, that we all have as men. And, and, and so he was really down, he was like, yeah, let’s talk about it and we have this conversation and.

It was funny because he was like, I don’t remember being homophobic, you know, like, I don’t, I’m like, well, dad, there were moments that it’s so funny how they can erase those, those memories. But, but the fact that my dad was really down to sit down and, and, and talk about this, this thing for this show. Uh, was, was really my favorite part of, of the whole thing, right?

Like, yeah, it was an honor to be next to, you know, Malakia and all this other artists, because I suppose like we are now the next generation of artists doing this work. Um, and the fact that, that, you know, That I’m considered to be part of this legacy. It’s truly, it’s truly an honor. And, and I think with that, with, with what is repulsed, they would honor, uh, or it comes to a lot of responsibility.

Uh, you know, like it really is our responsibility as, as the next generation to move the conversation and not be complacent, right. And not be complacent. We’re like, oh, we. We’ve, you know, we’ve arrived, we’ve made it here because as, as we did, whatever is coming with this new administration, we don’t know how things are gonna move and how, like, That’s being complacent can result in a lot of people’s lives being negatively, negatively affected.

And so I think as an artist, I want to continue to illustrate those, those moments of, you know, that, that we’re all thinking and we all fight over online, but fitting down with a family member or with a friend or, you know, Rather than calling them out, like, let’s call him in, like, you know, if, if there’s an opportunity, right?

If, if, if it’s like one of those things that, like I said, you know, I might, might be contradicting myself, where like, I’m not going to try to convince anybody of my humanity. I am not going to do that. But with my family, with the people that are close to me, I am going to try my best to have those conversation.

Um, you know, and, and, and, and, you know, figure out where, where that comes from. And so. But yeah, I, I, you know, uh, to be able to do this, uh, uh, it’s a form of therapy and, and I thank, you know, like the Oakland Museum who, you know, I’ve done work with them. Um, so they, they keep bringing me back to, to, you know, to do work around, you know, What I’m thinking.

It’s so weird.

[00:42:24] Alfonso Ayala: No, thank you. And I love you bringing up, uh, unlearning, right? Because I think that reminder of this all being a process, you know, I think, um, It’s attractive to hope that it’s a singular moment, right? Where it’s like, oh, now, now enlightenment, right? But I think to, to remember that, There’s so much that’s, um, driven by systems of power, right, that we need to unlearn, um, and help others unlearn together in community, I think is something that’s really powerful, and so I appreciate you sharing that.

[00:42:55] Julio Salgado: Yeah. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t think, again, right, like, it’s just, we live in a world that conversation with no context happens so often online that I, I am, I don’t think we, you didn’t know those things before. Nobody knows that all right. And so to dismiss a whole people because we don’t agree on something. I don’t know.

I’m still trying to articulate and I’m. Thing that I’m trying to articulate where, where, where do I want to move myself? How do I want to move myself in, in this coming in the next four years? Right. I could be angry every day, or I can lean into my community and be like, what do you need? What, how can I show up?

How can my work? You know, continue to be a way to have this conversations. And, you know, I’m, you know, I, I made an image recently that, you know, uh, got a lot of shares and, and it was about, you know, Latinos who voted for Trump. And so people got really mad. Some people thought it was funny. And to me, I’m like, if people read the caption, I’m like, have those conversations with the people that, you know, you think are not, you know, Are like, you know, they cannot be no longer safe.

Here comes my capitalism, right? Like, you know, everybody can be safe. Everybody could be, you know, like we can have this conversation. It is possible. I’ve done it. Um, but also take care of yourself first, you know, before you have this conversation. Yeah.

[00:44:22] Alfonso Ayala: I want to shift a little now to, um, some of your more current work and, and also thinking about kind of what’s in store for the future.

Um, you know, over the past month or two, you’ve started to publish this daily comic strip on your Instagram called Sober Daily, uh, in which you provide a little snapshot of your journey of sobriety. Um, you know, I, I’m also someone in sobriety, so I saw these strips and was really excited to see them. Um, uh, the first panel posts that you made.

was on October 7th, 2024, and it was timestamped your sixth day of sobriety, uh, December 6th, 2020. The caption reads, It has been almost 20 years since I had that first drink, and look at me now, about to enter a program for substance abuse. And then you have these thought bubbles, um, asking things like, How did I get here?

Is this who I am? I’d love to ask why it was important for you to share. This personal part of your life with others, um, and if there’s any lessons you’ve learned through activism that have helped you in your sobriety and vice versa. Yeah.

[00:45:30] Julio Salgado: Yeah. I mean, you know, I’m, uh, I’m entering, uh, November. This is my, uh, uh, I’m in.

November 29th is going to be my fourth year. And thank you. Thank you. And, you know, I’ve been keeping all this journals, right? Uh, then I started my sobriety. Um, and even though my work had been so much about like, we need to show that we’re not in part that we’re like imperfect immigrants, imperfect human beings, like.

People can relate even if you’re, you know, if you’re not an immigrant, like people relate to, to being perfect and alcoholism sees no race. Truly. Uh, it sees no, uh, social economic status. Like, you know, it’s just, it just happens. Right. And so as I was, you know, I delve into my, my, uh, my journey, it, it really, um, I started, I, I.

You know, a, a, you know, it wasn’t like I tried doing it. And in my new, this is like during the pandemic, um, I, I tried doing the rooms and, and, you know, virtually it’s just, I felt, it felt chaotic. I, it didn’t work for me. And so I thank God for, you know, and having, you know, insurance through my, through my, uh, nonprofit, you know, gig, and I was able to find, um, Uh, addiction based therapy and they, they, they also had, you know, uh, you know, brooms, but they were a little more controlled because they have two therapists leading the sessions.

And so I need, you know, my Virgo brain needed organization if I was going to do this. And so. I also had my, you know, meetings with my, with my therapist, and one of the things about, you know, I was telling my therapist, I was like, I’m already undocumented and queer, and like, I don’t want to add, you know, a recovering alcoholic to the list.

And he was like, you know what, Julio, you’re, whenever you’re ready to share your story, you’ll be able, like, this is nobody’s journey but yours, right? And so it, I, I, I started doing it, you know, with friends, uh, people were starting to go back into the world and sort of being, you know, joining the parties or whatever, I, I started having, I didn’t realize, I knew how drinking was a big part of my personality, but I kinda like, I was like, well, I’m a gay man, duh, like we drink, um, but then people started being like, you’re not drinking.

Wow. Like. It was like, I was like, Oh, I didn’t know it was that big. Am I that guy? Am I that person? And, and so like, I, it, it took me, it took me a while and journaling really kept me, you know, saying, you know, I went through a relationship, we broke up. It was my first ever relationship. I’m like, there were so many things that, that I had learned.

And, and it’s funny because it was during, you know, this, this fellowship, the disruptive fellowship, I was having a conversation with one of the fellows. And, you know, we were talking and, and, and then, and I, and I had, and I, I told her, I was like, I was like, I’ve been writing about being, you know, sober. And I was telling her stories.

She’s like, Julio, you really should. You know, push yourself and like tell this story. So I was like, you know, I’ve been thinking about it. I’m also, you know, I also did a book proposal for, uh, another, uh, uh, a graphic memoir that I have, uh, about me and my uncle. And that also deals with substance use. And, and I was like, I was like, but it’s a war ready to talk about an immigrant, especially right now when we are.

Supposed to be the perfect, like, we’re going back. We’re going back in like, you know, this narrative of like, no, no, no. We’re actually not those immigrants. We’re like the good immigrant. And I was like, we can’t live like, we can’t go back. And, and I think my intention is, is a, or my, my own, my own sanity of like, you know, what’s happening, you know, uh, like it’s, it, it, it, and the reason in this, before the election, when I started the, the, the Silver Daily, there weren’t, it wasn’t a linear timeline.

I was like picking time, you know, different times, you know, just because I think that sobriety is not linear. Like sometimes you could feel like this, but. Honestly, we can follow the wagon at any point and, you know, and I’m okay with that accepting that that is fine. And so I wanted to show that it goes up and down, right?

Like a tragedy could happen and I don’t know, right? And so all those things like really led to like, I just started like doodling and posting them. And, and, you know, it, it, what I’ve learned, you, your question also was about like what I’ve learned about sobriety and, you know, sort of being in this space is like, it’s a lot of us use alcohol as a way to cope with all the trauma and which that’s completely normal, but a couple of us, it can’t just be one drink, right?

It can’t, you know, like it’s just, it’s unfortunately we have. That and, and, and it’s something that it’s, it’s, it could be embarrassing. It could be, um, awkward to talk about this, but I’m finding it very, um, the, you know, it’s just putting the stories out and post election. I’d be kind of like more like up to date of how I’m feeling right now today.

And it’s, it’s been really helpful. It’s, it’s also my own accountability for myself. Uh, one of the things that I thought about, I’m like, what if I’m, I’m making this pieces about being sober. What if I do follow up the wagon? And then I was like, I answered myself like, well, what have you do? It’s part of the process.

This happens all the time. Right. My friend who I first, you know, my sober buddy who I first, I know, I know them through Instagram and, and they were the first person that I reached out to. They had been posting about their sobriety. Like now they’re telling me they’re like, I fell off the wagon, but seeing your work, it’s inspired me to go back.

And I was like, See how, like, we can be in one part of this, of the journey, and then you never know where everything’s going to end. And so, to me, it’s helpful to look back at when I started in 2020, almost four years ago, and where I’m at now. Um, I also want to, you know, like, the realities of, like, it’s not, it’s not, It wasn’t, it wasn’t like, Oh, boom.

Like I change, right? Like if any boom, like I’m like, Jesus, sometimes I, I wish I could go get a drink and I’m like, okay, am I having a craving or is this like how we as a society usually response of like, Oh, I could use the drink. Right. And so there’s moments like that, that I’m like, I immediately being able to put them on, on the little comic strip and sharing it with the world.

Um, it’s very helpful. And, and, and, and I’m, I’m thankful that, that again, people identify with it. And now that I’m making it a little bit more political with. You know, I can’t help it. I can’t, it’s all connected. It’s connected with the way that the world is, you know, it’s dealing with, um, with, with this whole post election days, I’m calling it post election sobriety.

Um, and, and yeah, so I, I, I, I, I think, I mean, that’s how you and I connected. Uh, thank you for sharing the, the, the day leave and. Although, I call it daily, sometimes, doing a daily comic strip, it’s hard y’all, it’s really hard. So, uh, sometimes when I’m just overwhelmed with other work, I’m like, oh shoot, like I should’ve, you know, the way that I, ideally, I will sit down on a Sunday night and like sketch some all out.

And, um, and then, you know, like kind of, you know, be able to like work on it, like super early in the morning. That’s my, that’s my ritual. Like, I love working in the mornings. Um, but sometimes life gets on the way and, and last week I only posted two. So this week I posted my first one. Hopefully there’ll be another one tomorrow, but yeah, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s been fun.

I’m back, I’m back on my, my, my comic strip, uh, um, you know, grinds ever since I started last year with, uh, With the Good Immigrant, Bad Immigrant, uh, comic for, uh, Delos from the L. A. Times. I, I, I don’t know, I enjoy, I just, you know, with the, with the other one, there’s also this feeling of not being alone. I also direct for selfish reasons.

Like, you know, uh, uh, aside from, you know, my sobriety, I’m also a caretaker. There’s a lot of people who are, you know, you know, dealing with being a caretaker with their families. And, and, you know, I, I, I don’t want to be alone in this, and being able to write about these things, being an open book, um, I’ve been able to meet amazing folks online, and, and I have my little online community of like, Sober, batty, and, like, caretaker, so it’s for my own good.

[00:54:29] Alfonso Ayala: No, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And I think, um, you know, it caught my attention so much because there aren’t a lot of representations of sober, queer Latinos, right? There’s plenty of representations of the addict, right? But thinking about what it means to exist in sobriety and to your point of it being this, um, messy journey, right?

Right. Oftentimes it’s when there, when there is representation, it’s oftentimes this, um, not, not that it’s a clean analogy, but right. Like a good immigrant or like this good sober person, right. What it means to show up well. So I just really appreciate your, uh, work in showing the complexities of what it means to live in that experience.

[00:55:10] Julio Salgado: Yeah. I’m reading this book called birth in the family. By Jessica Hofstich, I think that’s how you say her last name. Uh, and she’s a Latina mujer who is talking about sobriety. So like, it’s, it’s, they’re, they’re, they’re out there. They’re out there. And, you know, being able to capture this and we try so hard in making sure that.

What is, what is, uh, the, what is really showing the diversity of our community is showing the flaws, right? And showing those things. And so I think it’s very important that, uh, you know, we, we lean into those things. So, yeah.

[00:55:48] Alfonso Ayala: Great. Thank you. Um, To, to wrap up, I’d love to know, as you think about, uh, queer art and activism, um, especially to your point, like the moment that we’re in, right?

Post November 2024 election results, um, what do you think is the future of queer art and activism, and how do you envision the evolution of queer art in both political and cultural spaces over the next couple of years?

[00:56:17] Julio Salgado: Oh, that’s a, that’s a tough one because I mean, much like today, pizza on a sober daily about, you know, the reasons why I’m sober, uh, are in constant flux, right?

Like the, the reasons why we do this work, I think to me are in constant flux. Right. Sometimes I’m like, You know, our art should not be reactive. We should be able to like, you know, but yeah, like I, I think follow your heart. I think, you know, like to say that I know what the next couple of years is going to look like.

I’m not going to try to sit here and analyze. And because clearly we don’t learn from the past. We don’t, you know, we don’t. And so I want to encourage creatives. Um, you know, whether it be queer, creative, you know, uh, uh, sober baddies or, you know, anybody who’s a, a, a creative, like lead with humanity, you know, whatever work you are trying to make.

Um, it’s so hard to fall in the binary of like good and bad, you know? And so the, the, the role of the artist is to be able to like dive into this conversation, then be able to like, how do you say that? Uh, like, kind of like when you take a piece of chicken and you untangle. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, be able to do that.

Um, I’m, I’m, I’m like, still intrigued by the way, uh, that. Um, I’m in a new relationship and we are, we couldn’t, me and my partner couldn’t be so like, we’re so different yet we hold the same values, but I’m just like the way that when we get into arguments, you know, and the way that we each, um, approach, you know, conflict, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, as I’m living it, I’m like sitting back and I’m like, God, you know, humans are so complex.

And I love that. I love the fact that we’re able to be that complex and to be able to put it into a piece of work, a piece of literature. I love that, that artists are able to do that. And, and, you know, as much as we want to think that, like, we wish that we could all be in the same page. It’s never going to happen because we’re human.

Um, and, and so I wish, or. for artists to, to, to go into that more, lean into that more. Let’s not fall for this sort of, um, they’re there and we’re over here. I’m like, I don’t know the, the world doesn’t, doesn’t work this way. I remember when I’m going to, uh, you remember the girl, uh, the show girl. Um, I remember when it came out, a lot of people were mad at the creator, right?

Because it was like, oh, another show about white girls. But now looking at it from, uh, you know, a 41 year old perspective, I was like, she was making fun of those girls, right? She was making fun because that’s the people that she knew, right? That’s the people that she was surrounding herself in, surrounding herself with.

And so, like, I want to make sure that I hope Hollywood doesn’t stop giving those creatives the opportunities to go in deep, to go in and, and, and untangle, as you mentioned, the, the, our stories and, and, and that they’re, they’re not going to, it’s not going to be simple. And we’re going to, arguments are going to continue.

And like I tell my boyfriend, you know, like we’re going to continue having this argument. I’m sorry that that’s just how it’s going to happen, but how we approach them and how we learn from Pat. from the past. I, I hope that we remember what happened in the past and that we learn from that. And so, um, and also I just, I hope that queer artists and immigrants and, and everybody, uh, is able to, to create, you know, and, and the way that I’m using art and creativity to deal with a lot of things that I don’t have control over.

I always say that I do have control over my art and the things that I put out there. And so, um, So, yeah, I, I hope my, my iPad, which is my, my media continues to work and so that I can, uh, uh, you know, put my art, uh, out there as much as I can.

[01:00:33] Alfonso Ayala: Thank you so much, Julio. And we will keep an eye out for all the amazing artwork that continues the flow out of you.

My name’s Alfonso Ayala and I’m a doctoral student at UT’s Mexican American and Latina Latino studies program. We’ve been talking today with Julio Salgado, queer, undocumented, amazing artist and human being. Julio graciously shared his journey of art and activism, provided some reflections on the importance of queer representation in art, and offered some insight into what the future might hold, both for him as an artist and for queer artists at large.

You can view Julio’s amazing work at JulioSalgadoArt.com and by giving him a follow on Instagram @JulioSalgado83. Thank you so much for joining us on LatinXperts. We hope you’ll tune in again soon.

[01:01:19] Intro: Thanks for listening to this podcast episode of LatinXperts produced by Latino Studies at the University of Texas at Austin.

Like what you heard? check out our podcast library on Spotify or Apple Podcast. Latino Studies is comprised of three distinct units unified in one mission, including the Department of Mexican, American and Latino. Latino studies, the Latino Research Institute and the Center for Mexican American Studies.