Ep. 39 – Queer Brown on Both Sides of the Lens?

[00:00:00] Fabián: Finding intimacy between men can be very. You know, it’s a very, like, a vulnerable thing, and sometimes, you know, to talk about that and to even show it sometimes can be really difficult, because maybe a few of them might not be still comfortable in displaying that affection.

[00:00:23] Intro: Welcome to LatinXperts podcast. Produced by Latino Studies, a powerhouse of latinx thought and advocacy at the University of Texas at Austin. Where our mission is to create space to explore and understand the lives of latinos in the US, while using our knowledge and resources to support communities everywhere.

[00:00:43] Laura: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of LatinXperts. a podcast out of Latino Studies at UT. My name’s Laura Gutierrez. I’m an associate professor in the Department of Mexican American Latina Latino Studies. I’m also an associate dean currently in the College of Fine Arts in the Office for Community Engagement and Public Practice.

I’ve also been doing some performance curation in town. Mostly through the queer arts organization in Austin called Outsider, where I also serve as co artistic director. It is my pleasure to have, um, the mighty photographer Fabian Guerrero from Dallas, Texas in the studio to do what I love doing in this podcast.

That is having conversations with Texas born queer artists. Welcome Fabian. So good to

[00:01:42] Fabián: have you here. Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. Great.

[00:01:47] Laura: So I’ll get us started. Um, first by, um, having you say a little bit about yourself, where you grew up and what compelled you to pick up the camera and start capturing the people in your community.

Uh, communities.

[00:02:05] Fabián: Yeah. So I was, first I was, um, my name is Fabian Guerrero and I was born in Dallas, Texas. Uh, but I also like to claim a lot of like Tamaulipas because I think as a kid I was still, my dad was still kind of undocumented and still working through from back and forth. So I also very grew up, like the border life was just very a big part of me, like being back and forth.

Yeah. Um, so also just shout out to Tamalipa, cause you know, and the Valley cause that’s like my second home here in Texas. Um, but, um, it’s, it’s only, it’s a, it’s a kind of like a funny thing how I picked up my camera. Even though I would say like growing up, I was very into arts. You know, my first passion was music and that’s what I originally was going to like go towards.

It’s like because I would play instruments and I wanted to compose. But after high school, kind of, you know, things, life happens, things change. And I I was trying to figure out like another source of like, well, how can I still create when I’m not, you know, either no longer in school or, you know, have anything accessible to me.

And for me, the most fondest memories was taking pictures. And that was like with disposable cameras when I was a little, you know, even my dad bought me my first little film camera cause he knew that I just love taking pictures. So I would just, you know, go. So that for me was just like, Even though I wasn’t really thinking about photography in that way, or even thinking that I was like, documenting or making art, for me it was just kind of something that felt like, you know, very close to me.

And, I think in my early 20s, when I lived in LA, that’s when I took my camera with me and, decided to really like dive into it deeply, you know, walking around with my camera, like just documenting here and there. But deep down, because I loved photography so much, you know, and, you know, looking at magazines and looking to, you know, photographers that, you know, were inspiring me, I was still kind of like, Thinking to myself, like, well, you know, something’s missing and for me it was like, I think at that time was just still the representation within our communities.

You know, I still, it was still a, you know, let’s say like a industry where you still weren’t seeing the exclusiveness. And I remember I sat down with myself. And with some friends actually, and just speaking out loud, like, you know what, like, I’m gonna start taking pictures of, like, our community, you know?

Like, especially, like, the brown queer community. Cause, you know, me being a, you know, a queer person as well, I was just like, I wanted to kind of begin this little connection, you know, of shiny light on us. And my first thought was, And the thing that I wrote down to myself was like, you know, this whole like brown queer rancheros thing that I kind of started.

And that was kind of my way of like connecting, you know, and meeting people, other people in the community. Like, cause it was still hard for me to find. Social queer brown boys or people that, you know, would still love to wear like the Tejana, you know, the boots. Um, and to just walk around, you know, kind of like just owning it, you know, unless you’re in a space, right?

But like there was few spaces at the time, like, you know, in LA there’s Tempo. In here you have, well now you have like Rosielles, which is like when you go in there, it’s just very heavy. Yeah. Like Vaquero, Norteño, but you know, to see the outside, it was still kind of like hard and I think I wanted that in my image first.

So here and there, I would find a couple people in the community, Instagram actually, you know, I would just like reach out to them and be like, Hey, um, introducing myself first, you know, and then let’s meet up for coffee. And after that, I would just kind of like, let them know like, Hey, would you be interested in me taking your photograph?

Like photographing you. And it kind of just went on from there. Um,

[00:06:34] Laura: Yeah, no, I, I just, I’m sorry to interrupt you, but I, you know, just thinking about the, the listening audience who may not be familiar with your, uh, photographic work. Um, I mean, one of the things that, and we’ll put it on the show notes, but, um, we will, you know, put a link to your Instagram, um, as well as to other, um, Press or material, um, that’s available out there so that people can read and see your work.

Um, because, you know, the podcast doesn’t allow for visual visuals. So, but, you know, one of the things, I mean, in fact, you, you mentioned Instagram and, uh, the way that you connected to the people that, uh, you began to photograph. Um, but, you know, it’s also the way that, uh, I, and I. I think probably many people also came through, came to your work, right, through Instagram, which is how I first, I started following you because, um, someone, you know, mentioned the Queer Ranchero, um, photographic series that you have.

That’s just so, so beautiful. And I think that that’s how I started like, you know, sort of following you. and paying attention to what you were doing. Um, but we hadn’t met in person at that moment. Um, but I think that, you know, that’s, that’s like, like, like that story that you just told us about how you started like doing that.

I, I thank you for sharing it, but it just to sort of let the audience know that this is, you know, the imagery that, you know, Fabian, um, kind of, and I don’t want to put. Words in your mouth, but, you know, kind of like coming into your, uh, in your, your sense of also owning your, your photography as an art practice.

Am I off by saying that or?

[00:08:33] Fabián: No, you’re, I mean, it’s not off because I think, uh, you know, how I mentioned earlier in the beginning, I wasn’t seen as an art practice. I was really just kind of. Doing something for myself at the time. I wasn’t, you know, when I first started taking pictures, these pictures weren’t Necessarily like, oh, I want this in a show.

I want this in a magazine, you know It’s just more so, you know, because I only had social media at the time, you know, it was just my way like, okay Let me Start posting, you know, and that kind of the after cut, let’s say like a year. So, um, that’s when people, I was getting recognition, like to the point, like even, you know, one of our mutuals, Rafael Esparza, reached out to me and was like, he’s like, Hey, I would love to meet for coffee or something like that.

And, you know, Basically asking me like, hey, what do you do with your work, you know, and that’s when he, he started throwing like art into my, like your art practice, this is your art, and I was just like, I was like, what art, what are you talking about? Cause I, I didn’t know any, you know, I didn’t, like I said, I didn’t go to school.

I didn’t, I think for me, it was just something, you know, I’ve always loved art, you know, just the idea of making stuff. So for me, like, An art meant somebody that had an academic background, right? And not necessarily, like, anybody can just come up with the art practice, you know? So That was kind of like my first, like, realization to think it to myself, like, wow, wait a minute, so this is art, you know, this is my art practice, and I had to, like, now I’m owning it, you know, now I’m, like, really taking, going with that, like, you know, moving forward since that time, and so now, now I’m, like, that’s just how I see it now, like, I really had to, like, own up to that, and be proud of that, like, you know, that this is, like, My art practice and, you know, I’m proud of it.

[00:10:34] Laura: Yeah. I mean, to the point where, you know, you’re, and not to say that, you know, art institutions, um, like museums, um, are where we get our legitimacy in terms of, uh, you know, something being art, but, you know, just sort of seeing the way that, you know, your work is now. You know, in featured in some exhibits to me is, you know, um, you know, obviously your, your talent, you know, your eye in the beauty of what you capture, um, what’s missing in terms of representation that you mentioned earlier.

Um, but also, I mean, I think. And we’ll talk a little bit about this, um, the, you know, your, your friendship and, and collaboration with Rafa Esparza and the way that he sort of brought you in and said, you know, like gave you kind of like, you know, the, the valor and perhaps, you know, even the language to call yourself an artist, I think is, is, is so cool.

Um, and those are the stories that, you know, I, I just love about, um, the artists that, um, that I surround myself with. Right. Um, but yeah, I mean, I wanted to then like, um, you know, you kind of. Now have a, a bit of a following, you’re getting recognized for, you know, the work that you were doing, you know, particularly through the Queer Ranchero series and other things, but then you also begin to do fashion photography and other types of photography at that time.

[00:12:09] Fabián: So that started kind of also falling into place because I think from my point of view, I think people were seeing something different. You know, and I think people want it and want to, you know, like that about me. So they will bring me on to be like, Oh, I wonder what. He could bring to the table, you know, on this side of like the world.

And that’s when I stepped into like, you know, the commercial, the fashion. Even though, don’t get me wrong, I do, some of that does still inspire me. Because, you know, at the time, in like high school, Like I, you know, because I grew up poor, right? Like I couldn’t afford some of the stuff. So sometimes I would steal them.

That was my way of like literally taking that home and like getting inspired by imagery. You know, or going to the library and looking at books, or even at the time if I had the chance to go to museum, I would just go straight to the book section because I was just my way of like, that was my way of studying and understanding like what photography is.

And I think because there was so much fashion involved. I’ve always loved the idea of like how performative that was, you know, especially the, you know, from like the early works on from like 80s, 70s, that was very performative for me, very like statuesque. And I think that’s where I tend to bring some of that into my work, because I like to really, you know, See ourselves that way, you know, and that’s why I have that little bit of fashion element because, you know, it’s more so like I’ll want to play with that.

I want to play with the body, the composition of the photo, you know, how I tend to really photograph into all one versus just like taking a photo of somebody, just, you know, in a space like I want to play with all these elements. Um, but with the fashion, I mean, it just kind of just also fell into my lap and, but I think after a while.

It kind of, I had to really balance because I was getting lost in fashion photography and It wasn’t something that I really was trying to go to but I think now I Learned how to balance it because I think It’s something that I don’t necessarily like to put on top of my photography, like fashion photographer, because it’s not who I am, even though I love it.

It’s more so like, you know, documentation, but why not include these elements into my work to make something more like visual, you know, and inspiring than just like, like I said, I just don’t want to take somebody like that. I

[00:14:55] Laura: love the way that you’re kind of like blurring the boundaries of like the types of photography, right?

And how they’re like speaking to each other, like borrowing elements from fashion photography for your, to document, you know, queer brown communities, um, and, and to sort of create I think, you know, um, culturally we’re all sort of drawn to like high fashion photography, uh, particularly if when you, what you said, we grew up poor, like, and the, our aspirations were not necessarily.

Um, accessible. They were mostly through these magazines that, you know, in the grocery store and like Walgreens. I totally identify with that. Um, and that’s how we like, you know, sort of our window to that world. Right. But that then you take from that world and you bring it to your communities, I think is just a beautiful, uh, a beautiful, uh, way to, to give us something, you know.

Um, and so I wanted to ask you. Um, about, you know, then you spend some time in L. A. and then you, but then you decide to come back to Texas. Um, and why, why that moving back and what that did for you work. Um, And how perhaps, you know, what you did in LA through the Queer Ranchero series in some way continues to be part of what you’re doing here in Texas since you’ve been back?

[00:16:38] Fabián: Uh, yeah. So I think my last few years in LA, even before COVID hit, um, I was really In the start process, like, I felt really, I don’t know, it was just something in me that I kind of like, I let myself, you know, my intuition guide me, and I was really feeling like, just kind of lost and empty. Even though I loved the city and I had friends, you know, community, but I was, I was, I was eyes as I was diving deeper into my work, that’s when I started realizing like, well, what’s missing?

Like, what is it? Because I had just done a show at Residency Gallery, um, in Inglewood, and that was my first, um, attempting to self-portraiture, you know, and performing me becoming the, and being in front of the camera, becoming the performer. Mm-Hmm. . And when I did that, you know, it was like, there was one photo that was like a really big success for me.

And it’s the one that I did of me as my sister. And so when I dove into that and realizing like, whoa, like I love this, you know, I want to do more of this. Like, because again, I’m talking about, you know, my, all of my memories and like, you know, Things that inspired me and living in LA, it was hard to kind of like pick that up, right, because I’m not from LA.

I didn’t grow up in LA, so it was hard for me to like paint. You know, my background or paint my story or my past or my memories and into the city that, you know, because me, I said, I like photograph. I wanted to photograph myself in these spaces that I have in my head. And that’s all here in Texas. I attempted many times to like travel, you know, come for like a few weeks.

But it still wasn’t enough. And when I would go back, I’m just like kind of set with myself. And I was like, you know what, like, if I’m going to do this, if I want to transition into like a different part of myself and my work, maybe I need to come back, you know, and that’s why I decided to come

[00:18:54] Laura: back. Yeah.

Thank you for, for sharing that. And also for bringing up the The performative photography, self portraiture that you did, um, and there’s a beautiful Remezcla article that talks about that, um, work that you did, you know, you as your sister, um, which will also link up in the show notes for everyone to see, um, But, um, you know, that to me, like what you’re speaking about is like the way that you really embodied the memory of a family, of kinship, of place and space, you know, like, this is, this is, this was not just, you know, Um, your sister through you, but it was also your sister growing up in Dallas or in Texas, right?

Through you. Right? So those two things here for me are, are very important. It’s my mind is, it’s blowing up, right? And to think, you know, as someone that is a performance studies scholar, I’m like, just kind of like thinking about, um, how that resonates so much with my, with my thinking, um, about performance.

Um, but you know, so then. The other thing that came up with, with your comment about this, this project, um, of you as your sister is also the, um, another thing that I love to see in your work, which is the intimacy. And I mean, it’s also, I think, You’ve kind of been touching on this, which is like, you know, you, you spend time with the elements that you bring in with the people that you’re photographing.

Um, you spend time, you take, there’s a lot of care with, you know, with your, with your, you know, photographic subjects as they’re called, right? Um, and, and, and it, it becomes this, um, intimacy that’s felt, you know. that the spectator feels. Like, I feel a lot of intimacy in your work. So I don’t know if you, you know, like, what are your intentions if you do that, or if, if it’s just organic part of the process.

Um, but yeah, I’m interested in intimacy in your work, like you with the people that you work with, you know, that you photograph, but also like, the intimacy within the frames of the photographs that you, you know, release after you’re done with work.

[00:21:41] Fabián: Um, it’s crazy because sometimes when people talk about the incident of my work is sometimes like, it’s, it’s sometimes, I’m not saying it’s hard to talk about it or it’s hard to show it.

Cause like you said, you mentioned like, you know, sometimes this moment just comes very organically, but the thought process of You know, each photo that I do obviously comes with that intimacy, right? That’s a memory. It’s a connection. It’s a relationship. It’s more than just a photo. Because now, you know, I’m also just having to, you know, dig deep down inside of me to really Bring this memory and this feeling alive.

So I think that’s where it kind of just like, you know, that’s the vulnerable part of like art, right? Of yourself when you’re like really making work, like you start pouring yourself out into this like moment. And I think that’s where the intimacy just comes, you know, because it’s not just like Me and even with my subjects, it becomes a part of them as well because, you know, when we’re all saying prior to when we’re all set, you know, there’s just like a level of communication and understanding and why I’m doing this and why they’re doing it.

And I think with, you know, that’s the most important parts, you know, for me as well as like when I’m taking a photo that I’m just not here taking a photo of you, you know, you know, there’s like, Behind the photos and behind the work, there’s so much like, conversation even happening behind the camera, you know, and I think those are the most important parts, too, because I think that’s when, you know, the tension kind of just falls off, and that’s when I kind of start to see them.

Like, you know, not only their soul and their spirit and their energy, but that’s when I also can, like, okay, I see them and, you know, they’re, now they’re vulnerable for me. And now I can really, like, go in there, step in, and really, like, you know, like, move your hair, move your hand. You know, can you move here?

Can you like, and you can tell that there’s already a level of comfortability. So when they, I asked, cause I’m also performing with them, right? Cause I’m like, you know, showing them how to like, you know what I want. And then they follow that, you know, so to see that, and then when I see the photo, it’s just the most like part of like beautiful part of my work that I get to see, like when I have the finished product and then be like, wow, like.

We did that, you know.

[00:24:16] Laura: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that and walking us through your creative process. Basically. Um, I feel, um, lucky and whoever’s listening to this should also feel lucky to, to have heard those words from you. Um, but there’s another level of intimacy that I want to talk about, um, which, um, to me comes through, um, In some of your photographs where there’s more than one person, um, there’s usually two, not often are there usually, there’s almost always from the work that I know, there’s almost always like just one person, but sometimes there’s, there’s more than one, two, um, and, um, I, um, You know, I, I’m also blown away and, you know, really enamored with the intimacy between those two people, right?

Particularly, you know, with the intimacy between, um, two, You know, masculine, very sort of Mexican, assume, where we assume, you know, heterosexuality or, you know, the kind of the, the collective imaginary about what, who Mexican men are, is often attached to, you know, these, um, cowboy hat, right? you know, wearing dudes, right?

With, with, uh, cowboy boots and all of the other, uh, accessories, um, that stereotypify, you know, who Mexican men are. But, you know, You’re, you know, because you’re interested in queer, um, you know, Brown subjects, um, you know, the, what you, what you end up doing is, is sort of providing, providing us with, you know, sort of opening up that wedge that exists, you know, between, you know, queerness and, and, um, Mexican men, right?

Um, and by Mexican, I mean, you know, Mexican from both sides of the border, kind of like, more like a cultural, not a national, uh, kind of identity category. Um, anyway, sorry, this is a long prelude to the question about intimacy, right? Um, of, you know, to, um, men who are in their ranchero or caballero. or vaquero gear, and they’re being intimate with each other through touch, through dance, and through, and I wanted you to talk about intimacy between these men.

[00:27:14] Fabián: Um, sometimes that can be a very, like, difficult thing, because, you know, even during the process of my current work, You know, finding intimacy between men can be very, you know, it’s a very like a vulnerable thing. And sometimes, you know, to talk about that and to even show it sometimes can be really difficult.

Because maybe a few of them might not be still comfortable in displaying that affection, you know, and I think that’s the part where it kind of like, you know, you know, where it hits, right, right, and when we really talk about intervening now that we’re bringing, we’re showing affection and to show affection in my work and image and, you know, that’s, you know, people are going to see that, people are going to see faces, so sometimes, you know, most of these, you know, guys and men, you know, are still not, Even though they’re adults, but they’re still not really fully, you know, comfortable with that and that’s a, that’s a process, right?

You have to really step out and think like, you know what, even though I could prove right now like a, you know, Like a safe space, but they really had to go above me. I’m like, you know what? Maybe I’m not ready to be seen in that way or I’m not, you know, I still, I’m still protecting myself from, you know, maybe the possible of like, if somebody sees this image, you know, they can be maybe attacked or, you know, with like, because they’re still in their closet or they’re still very like, you know, undercover, but they’re still, you know, trying to figure themselves out.

And I like to really like, think about that often when I do work, when I’m really bringing two people in, especially when it comes to like, you know, um, Vaquero Norteño kind of like men that dress this way because there’s so much conversation involved around that, you know, and I had to really like, we understand that because in the beginning when I was trying to do this, I was like, damn it, why can’t we just all be gay?

You know, like, but you really have to think about that, you know, and I really realized that like, wow, like, even guys around my age still have a hard time accepting that. There’s this whole conversation, you know, that still revolves around this, like, issue. Um, and to understand that, you know what, like, this process takes time.

Yeah. And the timing, it can’t just, like, Go in and expect somebody to like, do this, you know, to like, you know, you really have to like, now you’re not dealing with one, but you’re dealing with two people, and maybe one would probably be ready before this film’s ready, and like I said, that just kind of, you know, takes, it’s like building a relationship, right?

A stronger relationship, you know, having the conversation, and. a big trust, you know, has to happen before they can fully be like in front of you and performing this way. But, which again, I think it’s still a beautiful thing, but at the same time, it’s more so like, we still have to understand, like, you know, even within the queer communities, there’s still so much, um, patience that needs to be happening, understanding of all that.

[00:30:34] Laura: Yeah, everyone has their own process, um, and it’s contingent on, you know, their family, their workplace, and so many other factors, and yeah. Um, so, you know, this brings me, you know, perhaps maybe to my last question, which um, is, you know, the, you’re now experimenting or doing work with, um, the moving image, right?

Um, so you’re moving into video or film, like, you know, um, I mean, you’ve been doing film, you know, through photography, but still photography, and now you’re moving to the moving image. Um, and I wanted to, you know, go back to your collaboration with, with Rafa, Rafa Esparza, um, the show that’s currently up at the Denver Art Museum.

Uh, it’s a group exhibit called Cowboy that, you know, it, it is about, um, you know, this, this kind of, um, iconic figure in, in the U. S. and, uh, imaginary, right? But, um, you know, you both are interested, not just in, you know, sort of the brown cowboy or the vaquero or Norteño, but you’re also interested in the queer, right?

So you collaborated with Rafa. It’s not your first time working with, with him, but, um, tell us a little bit about both that experience of collaborating, but also, um, the piece that’s in the show that’s the, the, the.

[00:32:15] Fabián: Well, usually, I mean, um, collaborating with Rafa because it hasn’t been the first time. So I think by this time now, by now, it’s like, it just feels like home, you know? And I think one thing that I love about Rafa is how he really can include, you know, community into his work, which is very inspiring. You know, I always like to, like, move forward with that.

Uh, so bringing him, me bringing him. bringing myself into it, you know, his work and like, you know, the thought process. Um, I mean, it’s just like a beautiful thing. And I think when we first, when he first called me for this specific, you know, work, it was like last year around December. And it’s, it’s, it’s funny that how that happened too, because at the time I was really being back in Texas.

I really wanted to like, you know, dive into this space called Los Yeles, which is like a big like, um, vaquero gay club in Dallas. Um, and it’s just like one of those things that I really, you know, one day I told myself, like, I want to document this space. I want to document this space. I want to like, you know, but, um, when he told me about the, you know, the subject and what it was going to be about, I was like, at first we were going to like, just create like a four.

Kind of documentary. And he gave me the freedom of like, Oh, what do you think we should do it? You know, if we do it, let’s come up with this, you know, let’s, or why not include like, spaces like, here in Texas, here in Los Angeles, you know, because I knew of all these spaces in Arizona, you know, and, you know, there’s like, also like this gay, festival that happens in Zacatecas in Mexico.

Then I’m like, whoa, like, and all because of TikTok. Because he starts to, you know, he starts to see all these things, you know, I’m like, whoa. And I’m like. We should do this. We should try to document this. But again, it seems easy at first because, you know, you think there’s, because you’re a Brown queer, you think I could just do this as well.

But yeah, really, again, it goes back to that question. It’s like, you know, sometimes it’s still hard to just jump into a space and document these people because you have to, again, it goes back to the conversation where like, they might not be ready, identities and like, you know. Yeah.

[00:34:41] Laura: There’s an ethical question there.

[00:34:43] Fabián: Exactly. So, you know, doing that whole like past. This year alone, I got to build a relationship with, uh, the owner of the club, Rosie Ellis. Um, and that’s when again, we had these conversations, and it was just more so like, you know what, like, if it was just like a normal, like, night, you come in to photograph for the, for like, the Instagram page is fine, but now, because I’m, now I’m exploiting, you know, now I’m like, you know, putting them in a platform, in a space that a lot of people are going to be seeing, and I think we had, that’s what we had to have, this conversation, there’s a lot of the guys.

You know, sometimes I’ll come up to her and tell her like, can you take this picture down? Because you know, I’m not, I don’t want to, I’m not cut the ball yet or I can’t risk. Um, so we had to like change the whole narrative, you know, and I think I had to really think back, okay, you know, like, how can we do this?

But luckily, you know, Rafa, me and him have been very back and forth and communicative about like, okay, what’s the next step? How can we do this? How can we arrange? And, you know, he gave me really freedom with this. There was really no like, all right, you know, I’m gonna step in. Like he really put his full trust into what I wanted to make.

And he wanted me to focus on the photography aspect. And then also to like, you know, for us to make this video, which, you know, he was like, do whatever feels right. I like, I trust you. I know, you know, so he came down for a couple of days to help me with the shoot. But by that time I was really down to the last minute.

You know, and I was just like, Oh my God, I don’t have like, I can’t do this. But luckily, I had friends that, you know, already had like, was hanging out with that in this space. So I invited them. They invited some friends. You know, I had a few friends of mine that came to just like, you know, do the whole like, you know, shoot.

And then, so that big, that was like a big part to kind of like, again, that was supposed to be in the space, that stage was supposed to be set up in the space, you know, that was like first idea, you know, for every, so like, I can invite people to come in and take the photos taken, um, but now I had to move it to the studio, and I mean, it still worked out fine, I’m still very happy with the outcome, but now I’m just like, man, like, I want more, but, um, I guess that comes with time, but with the video piece, um, when we started working on that, we kind of really sat down and really think about how do we want to do this.

Our first agreement was like that what we wanted was like two men dancing. You know, me, him was our, that was like our first idea. Like for us to find like a couple that can dance, you know, to really like, um, perform in the video. Um, but then again, we had like so many guys and that again, even with that too, like some of the, a lot of the guys that were asking that I was asking, they were like, I would do it, but.

I can’t be seen with another guy dancing yet. And that again, that goes back to that conversation. I was like, wow, you know, it became, it was really difficult, but I have to really respect and understand that, you know, but that video and that, sorry. And that couple came down to the very last minute at that shoot.

I think that’s one of my friends that, for their friends came, um, I was, Because we had to do the video the next day, and Rafa had to leave, and I was like, okay, well, the video’s gonna happen. And I don’t want to tell Rafa, like, Rafa, I don’t have anybody. I was just like, you know what, like, I’m just gonna trust my gut.

I’m gonna just like, pray, I don’t know. But that very day and night before, when the shoot ended, I remember talking about it. And then one of my friends that I knew, he’s like, Oh, I’ll do it. And one of the other guys that I invited to, who works at the club, he’s like, Oh, I’ll do it if you, you know, if you need some people.

But they didn’t know each other, you know, they got to know each other through that video. So they were not a couple. They were just, you know, they became friends. Um, but even with that, you know, it’s more so like How do you tell two people and direct them in a way to create something very intimate, you know, because a lot of, you know, you could see that video.

I’m thinking like, Oh man, these guys are like in love.

[00:39:26] Laura: That’s what I thought. I thought, you know, this is a, like a, they’ve been together lovers forever.

[00:39:33] Fabián: Exactly. So I’m like, how do I create that feeling and that, you know, into the film. Right. And that was my chance to really go above beyond photography. You know, you know, directing, I was like, behind in the camera while my, you know, my friend was recording, had to step in and be like, you know, okay, you know, this doesn’t look good.

Just like, can y’all like, you know, but, and, you know, it, it got, we got there slowly because I think, you know, They, I had to like really guide them first, you know, to teach them like, you know, just like the, one of the guys, he actually has a boyfriend. I had to just be like, pretend that’s your man. Like, how would you hold your man?

You know, I want, you know, how would you touch him? Cause I think the most important part making this video was really reflecting on the memory, you know, of the first time I saw two guys dancing in this way. And I remember that, you know, memory cause I was being so like. Um, and all of it, you know, like watching them dance, I remember I was just like watching them, you know, following my eyes, following them, you know, like how they moved, um, how their hand placements were, you know, just like, that’s just another like feeling, you know, that I wanted, you know, because again, you grow up thinking that this maybe can never be seen.

But when you see it, it’s like. Wow, I want that, you know, it’s kind of like goes back to you know, how you first see you like your parents grew up You know to straight people like, you know being a loving you want that but yet doesn’t understand that queer love is different So when you see that it’s like wow my existence, you know, and it’s, you know, it’s real, it is out there.

Your,

[00:41:26] Laura: yeah, your existence, but also, you know, the way that you love is validated through that imagery. And I, and I really do like applaud you and Rafa for the work that you both do. And I mean, other artists are also working through these, you know, kind of like reorienting our gaze. And, and creating representations that validate our existence at those levels.

Right. Um, so I just want to thank you for, for bringing that beauty to, to light and, and I’m hoping everyone could see, um, this work. Um, I think. Maybe this is a good way to end, um, just because being conscious of time, but maybe we can end with, um, maybe telling the audience how they can see your work. Um, you know, maybe giving the handle to your Instagram as a starting point and yeah.

[00:42:23] Fabián: So I was here right now. You can. Follow on my work on my page on Instagram, um, Fabian Guerrero, but I have it spelled like F E I underscore B I A N. Um, which that was the easiest way you can find me on Instagram. Right now I don’t have a website because I’m trying to like reconstruct that. But, um, and with the current work with the video and the collaboration with Rafa Esparza, that is currently on view at the Denver Art Museum.

The Contemporary Museum, um, in Colorado and that’s up until like February, but for my Texas people, if they want to see this work, um, you know, while I was there installing with Rafa, they told me some good news. Like, Hey, you live in Texas, right? I’m like, yeah, like this is actually gonna, this is going to be a traveling exhibit and it’s going to Texas.

You know, next summer, I’m like, oh, where? I’m like in Fort Worth. I was like, oh, wow. I was like, what, coming home. I was like, this is crazy. Like, what a moment, you know, like, so I think that’s not going to be just like a wonderful experience for like, you know, for everybody to see, you know, cause I don’t think I’ve seen something like this in Texas, you know, so to have this piece in, you know, here in Texas and in Fort Worth, I was like, wow, yeah.

Like, we’re about to roll up, but I’m

[00:43:48] Laura: going

[00:43:52] Fabián: to be there, like, you know, try to offer as much as, you know, maybe like a walkthrough of people who want to come in, you know, cause I think it’s here in Texas for like a good months. So it’s like, why not take a, take that opportunity to, you know, introduce it to like community, to family.

[00:44:07] Laura: Do you know when that opens? So

[00:44:08] Fabián: more or less. I don’t know when it opens, but I know they told me around summer of next year, summer 2024. So that’s when they’re kind of thinking. Um, and it’s at the Amon Carter, you know, museum at Fort Worth that’s going to be at, which is like a big deal. I see. Cause.

[00:44:25] Laura: Yeah, I know.

I’ll also link that up in the show notes. Okay. All right. Well, thank you Fabien for having a conversation with me about your, your art practice.

[00:44:35] Fabián: Of course. Thank you a lot for like allowing me to be here and sharing this moment with you. Yeah.

[00:44:41] Laura: Thank you.

[00:44:46] Outro: Hi y’all, this is Ashley Nava Monteros, the Communications Associate at Latino Studies. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. Make sure to check out the Latino Studies Instagram page. Follow us at latinostudiesut to keep the conversation going.