Ep. 38 – Writing Truth in Times of Fear

[00:00:00] mónica: Everything around us has the potential to provoke us because I don’t think that a provocation is necessarily good or bad. I think it’s just something that makes you think.

[00:00:11] Karma: Welcome to LatinXperts podcast. Produced by Latino Studies, a powerhouse of latinx thought and advocacy at the University of Texas at Austin. Where our mission is to create space to explore and understand the lives of latinos in the US, while using our knowledge and resources to support communities everywhere.

Thank you for listening to LatinXperts. I’m your host, Karma Chavez. I’m a professor and the chair in the Department of Mexican American and Latino Latino Studies here at the University of Texas at Austin. Audre Lorde once said, I write for those women who do not speak, for those who do not have a voice because they were so terrified, because we are taught to respect fear more than ourselves.

We’ve been taught that silence would save us. Lorde’s profound words seem ever more poignant now as we live through such volatile and violent times in which so many feel afraid to speak their minds. But the art of writing one’s truth is urgently needed. When I think of one who writes in this way, among the very first people who come to mind is Monica Teresa Ortiz, the inaugural writer in residence in the Department of Mexican American and Latino Latino Studies.

Having a writer in residence is meant to create trust. Proximity between academics and a writer in the hopes of mutually beneficial exchanges. Writers are given an office space, invited to share time with members of the MALS community, and give a public presentation. And I’m delighted that Monica is the first, and that they’ve agreed to spend some time talking with me and Latin experts.

Monica Teresa Ortiz is a poet born and raised in the rural panhandle of Texas between Oklahoma and New Mexico. It’s an area well known for conservative politics and less known for producing artists. Although the influence of the pastoral can be found in the work of many well known artists and writers.

Monica has dedicated their work and life to Texas from the Gulf South to the windy Great Plains to the deserts between El Paso and Del Rio. Monica moves between forms, poetry, essays, criticism, short stories, nonfiction, filmmaking, and audio storytelling. Monica’s published work includes three poetry chapbooks, muted blood from red, black radish books, Autobiography of a Semi Romantic Anarchist, from Host Publications.

And Do You Dream of Flamingos, winner of the Garden Party Collective Chapbook Prize and selected by fellow Texas poet Laura Villarreal. Their work has been published in Scalawag Magazine, The Brooklyn Rail, Fence, and A Night of Screams, Latino Horror Stories, from Arte Público Press. And they’re working on a full length poetry collection, The Book of Provocations, forthcoming next year.

Monica, welcome to LatinXperts.

[00:03:03] mónica: Hi, thanks so much for having me. So,

[00:03:07] Karma: I guess I’m just going to jump right in here and I want to know for you, what is the significance of poetry in times of political uncertainty?

[00:03:16] mónica: Yeah, um, I think that’s a great place to enter this conversation. Um, you know, I, I, I think it was perfect for you to quote Audre Lorde, um, because that’s definitely someone that I always think about.

Um, that tradition, um, of Audre Lorde and especially like June Jordan, um, of being very vocal thinkers. And poets, um, who have influenced generations of, uh, young poets, um, with their, not just their words or their language, but, um, you know, their practice and their, uh, political actions. You know, it wasn’t just politics on the page.

It was, uh, also what they did. in their day to day life, um, and choices that they made. And, um, you know, um, I think for, at least for me, that’s a really important part, uh, of being a poet. I don’t, I have a hard time, um, conceptualizing being a poet that just writes poetry, um, and doesn’t participate in, in the world around me.

Um, and I think that that’s a tradition that, um, I really, you know, um, aim to be a part of, uh, I think that’s, you know, poets in, uh, a lot of other places, you know, um, have often been, uh, like the, Uh, what is the word I want to use? Uh, I think they’ve just done, um, a lot of, of work in service to, um, liberation movements, especially.

Um, you know, there’s obviously, like, the more well known story of, uh, Garcia Lorca, who was, um, killed. Um, in Spain by, um, a firing squad, um, for, you know, I think it’s people argue about whether it was because he was queer or if it was like his politics, uh, against Franco, but, um, he never, you know, um, held back.

And I think there’s a lot of poets who also do that as well. Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:05:42] Karma: What about maybe the flip of that question is, uh, is, is the same role of the poet in the times of what we might think of as political certainty, if such a thing exists?

[00:05:53] mónica: Um, I don’t, I think that that’s, there’s no such thing as political certainty.

Um, just, you know, I think the poets definitely can also serve, you know, Um, the function of supporting the state, um, and supporting, um, narratives and propaganda just as much as they can be in opposition to it. Um, I think, you know, there’s, yeah, there’s definitely also a history of that as well. Um, of writers and, and poets not being for the people, but, um, for these like systems that, uh, press people.

Yeah.

[00:06:34] Karma: So, uh, Gloria Anzaldúa, also a Tejana, uh, famously said that ethnic identity is twin skin to linguistic identity. How does that resonate with you, or if at all?

[00:06:48] mónica: Um, you know, I, so where I grew up, uh, in the Panhandle, it’s very rural, um, and I, it’s very isolated in a lot of ways, um, to the, to the outside.

And so, but there’s, um, a lot of different communities, um, which I think a lot of people don’t. realize or know about that part of Texas. Um, and I think for me, I grew up with a lot of influence from my mother and her family and their, um, their Mexican immigrants. They’re from Chihuahua. And my dad is, uh, he’s a Tejano.

He’s actually from South Texas. He’s from Del Rio. So I kind of like grew up with that around me. Um, a lot of people I went to school with as a, as a young person were mostly migrants. Um, There was very, very few people who had actually like been born in Texas. Um, and I think all of that kind of really influenced me to, you know, relate, um, I think in a sense to ethnic identity.

Um, And then especially like Mexican culture. Um, but I dunno, I think the, like the older I got, the more, you know, I became very interested in, um, reading and, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t grow up in a political place. In the sense that like people around me were very conservative. Um, so I didn’t really have a lot of access to like political tax of like leftist political texts.

Um, but I think over the years, um, one thing that really helped me develop a strong politic was being able to read the work of poets and, um, historians and people who were really involved in liberation movements. Mm hmm. Um, as well as like, um, anarchist, um, texts as well. And I think that that really helped me develop a, I wouldn’t even say a separate identity, but, um, an extension of like what I had already witnessed growing up in a, in kind of, you know, in a, in a volatile place.

Yeah.

[00:09:20] Karma: It’s interesting to hear you talk about that because, uh, you and I are both a part of what you have called the Nintendo generation, uh, which I’ll let you explain in a minute, but it also means we’re at a time when, uh, we’re not quote unquote digital natives in the same way that, uh, folks who are proper millennials, for example, um, how did you get access to some of those works that you were just talking about when you were

[00:09:41] mónica: younger?

Yeah, um, you know, Yeah, the nintendo generation kind of came out as a sort of as a joke in the beginning of um Just thinking about like I was born in 81. Um, I think nintendo came out in 84 um, the first gaming system I remember is the atari, um, so just thinking about like where that kind of like I guess, um introduction of technology to people started For at least for me more so like in the mid to late nineties.

Um, and I think that that it’s just been interesting to watch that kind of like development and relationship to, um, technology and also like gaming. Um, but also like kind of just juxtaposed against like Reagan’s election, um, in 81, which also influenced a lot of, um, what we were seeing in the U S, um, those policies that were, uh, introduced during Reagan’s era.

And, you know, I think that that, um, played a pretty big part. Um, Even if I think I couldn’t articulate it until much later. Um, but to answer your question, uh, my dad, he loves to read. And so when I was old enough to be able to read, he would take me to the public library and kind of teach me how to read.

Give me free reign, um, to, you know, pick whatever I wanted to read and, uh, yeah. And I would just kind of wander around and look at things and pick them up. And, uh, I think something that really helped me was if I read a text and I ever saw like another writer mentioned or another name mentioned in the book, I would become really curious and I would find that other writer.

Um, and this was, you know, before really you could order books online or anything like that. So I just kind of had to work with what was there. Um, but they didn’t have the like, kind of censorship that we’re seeing now. Yeah. So there was a lot of text, um, there that I was, You know, pretty surprised that I had access to, um, I don’t know how, you know, who the librarian was that put all of that together, but, you know, bless her heart.

[00:12:17] Karma: Yeah. Totally. We realize how big of a difference that actually makes. So maybe tacking onto this a little bit, kind of morality and the time you grew up in is also thinking about the land, which is an important theme for you. And I guess just to ask you to talk a little bit about the significance of.

land in your work.

[00:12:36] mónica: Yeah. Um, I think that it’s, you know, you grew up in a rural place too. So, you know what that’s like to be at a place where there is a lot of open space. Um, there’s not a lot of buildings. There’s not a lot of like architecture kind of getting in that way. Um, and especially like that during that time, there, It was a small, small place, uh, also less than 3000 people.

Um, so I think just growing up in the plains, which is, you know, very flat, you can see for miles, there’s not, not even a lot of trees, it’s just grassland, um, and farming agriculture. Um, and so I think. For me, I just being around that, uh, I grew up with a, a deep appreciation for like silence and quiet, um, and kind of the like world that existed in those spaces, the one that was like unseen, you know, um, and in terms of like non human life, you know, whether they were like snakes or, you know, these little like insects that would eat crops, you know, there was like an entire ecosystem happening.

That most often you couldn’t see, um, and I think at a young age, it was just really interested in that. And also like thinking about my own relationship to that, because so my grandfather, my abuelito, who’s a farmer, and he would take me out, um, to the farm and for him, it was really important. Um, Having that kind of relationship with these different, um, non human lives.

Um, cause he understood from farming his entire life that certain things were necessary, um, and certain, you know, animals were necessary to just keep things moving, um, which I was, you know, found really like interesting, um, that, you know, he didn’t need a science degree to understand that he just, you know, from his own experiences.

Um, and I think that really taught me the value of, uh, of lived experience and just like, uh, you know, um, obtaining and gathering your own knowledge from these experiences and like the interactions with like the space around you. Um, and then when I was older, I read, um, the Poetics of Space by a Bachelard and really appreciated that understanding of how much.

The space around us can influence the way that we interact with the, uh, with the world. Yeah.

[00:15:23] Karma: Well, it also makes me think about so many of our narratives of queerness in the United States, uh, emerge out of urban spaces or they emerged through a migration from the rural to the urban. And so I, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about rural queerness and how that manifests

[00:15:44] mónica: also in your work.

Yeah, um, I definitely, you know, growing up, uh, in that particular time, uh, I also, I felt needed to leave, uh, where I grew up in order to, like, be more expansive in who I was. Um, cause I never quite fit in there. Um, And so I, when I was 18, I actually moved to Austin and I went to UT and I think that that allowed me the opportunity to figure out my place in this, in this world.

Um, so it’s been really interesting going back and as like an older queer person and kind of seeing like how people are, um, kind of like, um, Working through those identities in a place that hasn’t quite, you know, been, been open to them or, you know, as welcoming or safe to them. Um, but it’s, I don’t know, I, I actually be curious, um, from your perspective about this too, because something I’ve.

Noticed and have thought about a lot over the years is, um, because it’s like a rural place and there’s a lot of like, uh, agricultural industry, there’s, um, you know, meat packing plants, there’s just, um, other kinds of industries there where, you know, and it’s cold. It gets very cold or dusty and so you see a lot of like interesting, I would, I guess I would call it like gender performance, um, from people who are, you know, very cishetero, um, so it’s not uncommon to see a lot of, uh, women there who dress very masculine to, you know, to meet the elements.

Um, and so it was very like normalized there. Um, there is a lot of like coded femininity as well, but, um, it’s just, it’s interesting to be there and kind of see that, um, sort of acceptance of, uh, of being able to dress in a certain way or present in a certain way. And people don’t necessarily think you might be queer.

Um, because especially because there is a lot of homophobia and transphobia there. Um, but. You know, with these younger generations, they are making sure to find their own spaces and create their own spaces wherever they are.

[00:18:30] Karma: Yeah. It’s funny you should talk about the women. I was, I’ve been for a long time struggling through an essay that’s sort of about the farm wife.

And, and there’s, you know, these, these women who I now would totally read as lesbian and they’re not, or they’re, you know. Straight married, who knows if they are, whatever they are, but, um, just that gender performance and like how I’ve been trying to think about how that sort of informs my own gender identity, but also like, is there a connection between them and trans politics?

For example, do they have any sense of that? Right? So I’ve been thinking through this for a long time, too. I think it’s really

[00:19:08] mónica: fascinating. Yeah, it’s yeah. I find it really interesting. Um, a funny story, um, is, uh, I work in a coffee shop in a rural area and all of my coworkers are mostly women. They’re mostly married, um, between the ages of like 18 to like 35.

That’s their like demographic. Um, you know, and I’ve been there for, you know, Almost a year. And out of all of those people, almost none of them read me as queer. And, and I just, you know, kind of don’t, I just, I don’t like to talk about my personal life anyway. Yeah. I’m a, I’m a private person. So. It’s not, it’s nothing I like will state overtly, but I find it really interesting that being as, at least for me, being very visibly queer and existing in this space where no one sees that because it is so normal to see, um, a person that they code as like a woman to dress this way or, you know, kind of have these mannerisms or whatever.

And I find that really fascinating. Yeah, well, we should have more conversations about that. For sure.

[00:20:23] Karma: Um, so the Book of Provocations, it’s your first full length book of poetry. It’s going to come out, uh, next spring, right? Uh, it has a provocative title. What are you trying to do with this book?

[00:20:36] mónica: Um, I think the title kind of just came from, um, reading some of Sylvia Wynter’s work and just thinking about how everything around us has the potential to provoke us.

Um, and so I think the project sort of started there in thinking about, um, some, maybe something I read or something I saw, um, That just sort of like provoked an emotion or reaction from me and kind of just like seeing where that took me. And so each of the pieces in that is kind of like drawn from that.

So it

[00:21:19] Karma: sounds then that the book itself was kind of a methodology for doing poetry.

[00:21:24] mónica: Yeah, it’s, it’s, um, yeah, it was a very interesting experiment to try to like, you know, some days I didn’t want to be provoked, um, but you know, that’s not the reality of where we live. And when,

[00:21:39] Karma: when you use the word provoke or provocation, do you assign a particular valence to it that’s negative or positive or is it just

[00:21:48] mónica: kind of open?

I think I, I left it open. I left it pretty ambiguous, um, because I don’t think that. A provocation is necessarily good or bad. Okay. Um, I think it’s just something that makes you think, um, that makes you kind of stop what you’re doing and just kind of like, huh. Okay, let me think about this and whether that’s like an, you know, uh, internal reflection about my own participation in it or just an observation about what’s happening and like these different relations, um, because I think that’s the other thing that really like interested me.

In working on this is, um, considering and thinking about relations and, and our different relations to one another, to the land around us, um, and how these kind of also, you know, input impact and like influence the ways that we move, um, in society.

[00:22:46] Karma: Yeah. So the state of Texas, maybe always, but perhaps especially in the last few years, last few legislative sessions, has been a rather provocative place in the sense of targeting communities that, uh, we both belong to and communities that we’re in coalition with.

You, uh, have stated, you know, your commitment to Texas. Why, why is Texas, uh, worth staying in and fighting for, uh, with all that’s going on around us?

[00:23:15] mónica: Yeah. Um, I think, you know, and I’m sure you know this as well. Um, a lot of people outside of the state of Texas and really outside of the U. S. South, um, have these stereotypes of what this place is.

Um, whether that’s, you know, their, you know, Um, thinking about it in terms of like the confederacy or just like extreme, uh, racism and violence. Um, and I think, you know, I have, I love the South. I, um, really appreciate people that, you know, they’ve been here and they’ve been really like, organizing for this place.

And I, I think that for me, Texas is, you know, it’s where I was born. It’s where my dad was born. Um, his family, they’ve been here a couple of generations. Um, and I think For me, it was not even a question of ever really moving to like this, the city, quote unquote, the city like New York or Chicago or LA to urban areas on the East Coast, um, that people often think of as, you know, liberal havens.

Um, and I don’t think that that’s necessarily true. I think that racism looks a very different way, uh, on the East coast. Um, I often tell my friends, cause they’ll ask me, well, you know, what is it like being back in the panhandle? And I always tell them, it’s you, some of these people are the nicest racists you’ll ever meet.

Yeah. Because they are very upfront about that. Um, they don’t hide it. Um, but they will also, it’s, um, complex because they will also help a lot of people of color in other ways. And it’s just a very like. I don’t know, interesting relationship that happens there. Um, but then you have, you know, the ones who have been quote unquote elected, who are running our governments and they don’t want to cede any power.

They don’t want anyone who is not elected. Basically not a white man to have any power, um, or any like, you know, kind of life. Um, and I think that that’s not representative of this place. Um, there’s a lot of communities of color. There’s, um, large populations of people who have come from, who have been displaced and dispossessed and they somehow ended up in Texas.

Um. We have in Amarillo, for example, there are a lot of, uh, communities of, uh, people from Vietnam, there are people from Afghanistan. Um, so there’s like really big pockets of people from every place, um, globally. And I think for me, it’s like these people, You know, being a part of this and being a part of this like movement to try to make a better place for everyone is really important to me and I feel responsible to be a part of that.

Um, I don’t, I’ve never felt like I’m just gonna abandon this place.

[00:26:45] Karma: So, uh, we wanted you as our inaugural writer in residence because I think your work is just amazing on every level, um, and I hope it’s been a good experience for you this week. Um, if there are students or other folks listening today who are also inspired by you and your work, um, and, uh, you were asked to sort of, not necessarily, you don’t have to call it advice, but something that, um, has really stuck with you or really guided you in using your voice, what, what would you say?

[00:27:15] mónica: Um, yeah, I, I did a class visit, as you know, the other day, um, and, uh, one of the students asked me something very similar. And, um, what I, what I told them was that, you know, the, as you move through Um, this place as you continue on, I think the, um, I guess we can call it a guiding light. Um, that has helped me is community, um, that’s been really important to me is being accountable to people, um, having people that will challenge you that will, you know, push you to grow.

I think that’s a really important, um, aspect of it. Um, and also. Really, you know, um, holding onto your principles and your ethics, um, because it’s very, it can be very easy to let go of those, especially like in institutions or even with, you know, Varying levels of access of privileges. We, you know, continue on.

Um, and I think it’s really important to be very like moored to our, our, um, our ethics and like, you know, cause doing the right thing is not always easy. Um, but we have to like, just understand that sometimes that’s what we need to do, um, to continue making a different place. Yeah.

[00:28:54] Karma: Well, we’re going to leave it there.

Thank you so much for being here today. Yeah,

[00:28:57] mónica: thank you for having me. I’ve had a great week.

[00:29:00] Karma: Wonderful. Again, our guest today was the Mexican American and Latino Latino Studies inaugural writer in residence, Monica Teresa Ortiz, a poet whose book, The Book of Provocations, will launch this spring. I’m Karma Chavez, and this is

[00:29:27] Outro: Hi y’all, this is Ashley Nava Monteros, the Communications Associate at Latino Studies. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. Make sure to check out the Latino Studies Instagram page. Follow us at latinostudiesut to keep the conversation going.