Ep. 33 – How Can We Support Spanish-speaking Incarcerated People?

Karma: [00:00:00] You’re listening to Latin Experts, a podcast of Latino Studies at the University of Texas at Austin. Latin experts features the voices of faculty, staff, and students, as well as friends and alumni of the Department of Mexican-American and Latino. Latino studies, the Latino Research Institute and the Center for Mexican-American Studies.

Karma: Join us for this episode of Latin Experts.

Karma: How can we support Spanish speaking incarcerated people? This is LatinXperts and I’m your host, Karma Chavez. Roughly 15% of the overall prison population and jail population is listed as Hispanic and in Texas, [00:01:00] roughly one third of those in prisons and jails are Hispanic or Latino. While not all Hispanics or Latinos are predominantly Spanish speaking,

Karma: It is safe to say that a high percentage are. A new Mellon-funded program proposed by UT Austin faculty, Adela Pineda-Franco and Sarah Brayne, is designed to provide educational opportunities for such people. Pido la Palabra, a Texas Prison Literature project for Social justice and the Literary Imagination is a collaboration between the LASANO Long Institute for Latin American Studies or LLILAS

Karma: In partnership with the Neti Lee Benson Latin American Collection and the Texas Prison Education Initiative – a volunteer run organization based at UT that offers credit-bearing college courses through UT extension to incarcerated youth and adults. This unique program will not only provide education to bilingual and Spanish speaking incarcerated individuals within Texas, but it will provide a model for Spanish [00:02:00] language creative writing and literature courses in prisons throughout the.

Karma: To talk about Peter Lak, I’ve invited the principal investigators on the project. Our first guest is a Franco Lasano long endowed professor in Latin American literary and cultural studies, and the Department of Spanish and Portuguese, and director of Lila here at ut. And our second guest is Sarah, brain Associate professor of sociology and director and founder of the Texas Prison Education Initiative.

Karma: Adela and Sarah, welcome to LatinXPerts.

Sarah: Thank you for having us.

Adela: Thank you so much.

Karma: So I wanna say from the beginning, I think this project is freaking awesome and I’m just so excited to be having this conversation with you. Um, and I’d love to know how the two of you became collaborators and where you got the idea for this project.

Karma: Sarah, uh, maybe you could start.

Sarah: Sure. Well, uh, Adela actually reached out. I remember having seen the [00:03:00] Mellon call and, and thinking, you know, this is wonderful that they have this literary imagination, um, call for proposals, but I don’t have substantive expertise in this area. So wherein I thought, This, that the carceral setting or within prisons would be an excellent place to implement such a project.

Sarah: It was really fortuitous that Adela reached out with her subject matter expertise, um, and experience where she was familiar with programs that had been implemented in different countries in Latin America and asked if we wanted to collaborate.

Karma: That’s a, a, a very sort of organic way for this, uh, to emerge.

Karma: And, uh, Adela, you’re relatively new to campus and so I, I assume you’re reaching out trying to build these kinds of relationships and this seem like a great opportunity.

Adela: That’s correct. Karma. I, um, I came to ut and ut is my, ima mater, but I has not been here in 30 years or so. It was like encountering a new world [00:04:00] and as leader director, I.

Adela: So that my primary function was to connect, to build bridges, uh, across disciplines, but also ways of looking at the world perspectives and helping students realize that Latin America is everywhere. It’s in Latin America, but it’s also . It’s in the United States. It’s, it’s every. And when I saw this call that it was called, um, um, it was social justice and the literary imagination, I thought of this project, uh, but I didn’t have the infrastructure, so I.

Adela: Started researching and then I came across the Texas, uh, prison education initiative that Sarah needs, and I thought, this is so cool. And I just like wrote to her. I didn’t know her. I’d never seen her, so I said like, Hey, would you be interested in partnering to apply for this grant? . [00:05:00]

Karma: I love that story that the collaboration built like that, and I think it’s great for students to hear like you can just cold call somebody you don’t know and actually reach out.

Karma: Um, Sarah, will you tell us a little bit about the Texas Prison Education Initiative and why you decided to found it here

Sarah: at ut? Absolutely. So, um, as you mentioned, karma, the Texas Prison Education Initiative is a volunteer led organization, um, of volunteer instructors who are, uh, primarily graduate students, but also some faculty.

Sarah: Postdocs and we also have undergraduate student volunteers. And what we do is we teach college classes, uh, in different prisons in Texas, and these courses are free for students, uh, who are incarcerated and students receive credit for the classes through UT extension. Um, so the mission really is very simple, and that’s simply to expand access to education, to individuals behind bars in our state.

Sarah: And this really started, um, I, I [00:06:00] co-founded it with a then PhD student named Lindsay Bing, who now has gotten their PhD and is doing a postdoc at Columbia University at the Justice Lab. But Lindsay and I started at UT around the same time in 20. 16, I believe. And we both had a long history of volunteer teaching in prisons.

Sarah: I had done so in New Jersey and Lindsay had done so in New York State. And so when we came to Texas, both of us sort of independently figured, oh, we’ll just tap into the existing PR prison education program at UT and, and keep doing that work. And we quickly learned that there wasn’t a a, a university-wide prison education program.

Sarah: And so Lindsay and I, um, drove out to. Prisons around the state. Met with incarcerated students, with prison administrators. Um, met with individuals at UT with the UT extension office and decided to start really close to home. So we offered our very first class in, I believe it was fall [00:07:00] 2018, um, at the juvenile correction facility that’s right here in Austin.

Sarah: And then when people heard that we were doing this, it expanded really rapidly. And so since then, now we’ve taught, um, over 200 in. Students in multiple prisons in the state. Um, we have more than a hundred volunteers doing all kinds of things from teaching, but also, um, creating reentry manuals. And we have some undergrad students involved as fundraisers and graders and all of these types of things.

Sarah: And, uh, and so I’m so excited that the project now is expanding in this really, really important way in partnership with Adela. But that’s sort of the history of, um, we call it tpe, the Texas Prison Education in.

Karma: Oh, that’s a, that’s a, a, a nice little acronym. Tpe. Yeah. I, I like that. And so, uh, in, in, in doing the work then with tpe, was this an issue in terms of language that, uh, you actually saw, uh, in teaching these classes?

Sarah: Absolutely. So there are a number of my students, [00:08:00] um, who, uh, are not English first language are Spanish first language, and then many of our students are bilingual. And so one of the things that really happens in the Carceral context, Is that different forms of knowledge and expertise are valued and devalued.

Sarah: So sometimes students would say things like, oh, I’m not a good student, or I’m a weak writer, and these types of things. But it’s actually that just their language, their forms of knowledge and expertise are not really recognized or not legible in the current curricula that are offered. And so, expanding courses, um, to Spanish language courses was always a goal of mine, particularly in the Texas context.

Sarah: Um, but it was just so great that Adela reached out and came up with this beautiful idea of how to do that, specifically focusing on creative writing.

Karma: Yeah, I think it’s just wonderful. So let’s, uh, Adela, let’s talk a little bit about this title, Peter La Labra, which of course can be interpreted in multiple ways.

Karma: Uh, why did [00:09:00] you all decide on this.

Adela: Yes, karma. Um, it took us a while to find the appropriate title. We wanted to kind of like condense the purpose and the meaning behind, behind the project. So, as you know, in Spanish is an medium. It means two things. It means, uh, speak. In Aary discussion. You know, when you are in court, you ask for the word no, but it also means, um, I want to use words to express myself in a more effective, subjective way.

Adela: We think of word as language as. And we have to communicate with others, not only about, you know, policy about duties, but also about the most [00:10:00] intimate, um, feelings that we have and why is it important to communicate with others. So we thought that could bring. And this desire of communicating our needs, but also about our desires.

Adela: And also it could help us build, um, self-expression and also have, um, a sense of that we are, we are somebody who has something to say, even though we are in this particular condition as incarcerated person. So that was the idea behind the, in our title.

Karma: Yeah, I think it, it, it’s wonderful. I mean, I, I love the kind of parliamentary, um, or legalistic, uh, nature of one use of the term.

Karma: And then so folks who have, you know, perhaps been damaged by those systems actually, you know, getting to kind [00:11:00] of, uh, take that back, which I think is really powerful. Um, and, and, and, What is this program going to look like in practice? So what, what are, what are the classes gonna be like? Is it going to be a series or, or tell me about the specifics of what you’re imagining.

Karma: Sure. Um,

Adela: so the idea was, um, to think of. Writing, particularly creative writing as a way not only to, you know, trigger your imagination because usually, uh, creative writing programs or art programs are considered, uh, not as important in, um, credit, university credit, uh, you know, of courses, but many studies have shown otherwise.

Adela: Many studies show that it is through writing and creative writing that we can trigger self-expression, self-esteem, a sense of hope, but also facilitate outreach within and beyond the prisoner, uh, and [00:12:00] foster a sense of community and also. Express ourselves in our language and culture. So this was for us, fundamental, how can a person reintegrate to society?

Adela: How, how can a person think of, you know, spending time in prison and then coming out with a sense of like, I know now how to express myself in English and in Spanish, because that was my language. Um, The idea was we cannot do it alone. We have to do it with our community of students and faculty here at ut.

Adela: So we developed a course for UT students. This course is a mix of undergraduate and graduate students, and this course is being offered right now. The title of this course is Writing on the Edge Literature and um, in. And in this course what we do is we read about prison writing. We read about, you know, fine [00:13:00] writers who were incarcerated, um, in the US and, but mostly in Latin America and the Hispanic speaking world.

Adela: You know, students are surprised to learn that, like master pieces, like where written in patient settings and why, why is it that we need to write when we don’t have Sri Lanka and. That’s part of the course, but then the idea is that everybody not just find writers, everybody has the skill and the need to express themselves with language and with writing.

Adela: So the course also brings, um, Pedagogues and writers who have implemented, uh, these type of programs in Latin America. And so we reproduction of incarcerated students in different settings and then, you know, we discuss what type of. Education, pedagogy, dialogues that we would need to establish with students [00:14:00] who are deprived of freedom in, in prison settings.

Adela: Um, when we finish this course, we hope to have volunteers, other students who could help us implement the pi labra course. In the, in this course, we are going to develop strategies for students to. We are going to build a small Spanish speaking library, and we are going to develop workshops so that, you know, we can prepare the students in, in the facilities, uh, so that they feel self-assured that they can’t take the UT credit course.

Adela: And then in the four we have, um, this course, which in which we are going to write journals, poetry songs, riddles. We want to. Spell out the idea that writing is only for elites, for people with like, you know, um, a lot of like, um, [00:15:00] education, like no writing should be also, uh, the joy of using words, knowing how to use words.

Adela: So this is the main purpose of the class. Mm-hmm.

Karma: Yeah. Sarah, I wonder if you could talk a little bit for listeners about. What it’s like to teach in a prison logistically. And so, uh, the, the different kinds of access, uh, you know, ink pins, for example, things that aren’t allowed, like just maybe paint a picture for what the teaching is gonna be

Sarah: like.

Sarah: Absolutely. So I think there’s a couple things to take into consideration. Probably the most stark difference between teaching on campus and teaching in a prison is the lack of technology. Um, so I think, you know, particularly everything has been accelerated with covid and remote learning. But for most of us, we use technology in the classroom, right?

Sarah: We might use PowerPoints, we have student participation. And this is relevant not just for the teaching and for the [00:16:00] pedagogy, but also for students producing, um, their work. So in this class, they won’t have access to word processors. And so there are different kinds of adaptations that we make as instructors in a carceral setting to.

Sarah: Helps students overcome, um, these technological barriers. So for example, you know, I don’t ask students to write their essays, start to finish. I say if you wanna sort of just append an introduction on the front, that’s a separate page, that’s fine. You can write and rewrite it. in Penn, that’s totally okay.

Sarah: Similarly, um, if you are conducting research for an essay, they don’t have access to the internet or you know, Google Scholar and this type of thing. And so we as instructors need to serve as the library. So I think it’s really important. To carve out time and space. This sort of brings me to the the second point where students can engage one-on-one with the instructors to figure out what their needs are and how they can succeed in the [00:17:00] class.

Sarah: So what we build into some of our classes, for example, is during class office hours where students can come and. Speak to us about their needs, and that really is important because, you know, in the college setting, students can email a professor, they can go to their office hours, they can meet with their ta, they can chat with them after class.

Sarah: There’s all these sort of informal ways of connecting and communicating with your instructor to gain supplementary information or insight, that type of thing that just don’t. In the prison setting. And so we try and build in, um, those opportunities as much as possible. And then the third thing that I’ll just mention, I mean, I feel like I could do a laundry list of a hundred things, but , um, for the sake of your, of not, of not boring your listeners.

Sarah: The, the third thing that’s kind of relevant as well is just really recognizing that prisons are a very contingent environ. , things change all the time. Um, you need to be highly adaptable and highly flexible, right? One of your students might [00:18:00] disappear for the rest of the semester because they’re in solitary confinement.

Sarah: Um, your student might have their, uh, cell rated and all of their assignments taken away. Um, there are just different things that happen. You know, it’s hard to find a quiet time to. Do your work and to study when you live with all of these other people. So just really building into the time that we have with our students, the, the structural and physical and interactional environment in which they can learn and get their work done.

Sarah: It just sort of looks a bit different in the prison than it does on campus. Yeah,

Karma: that makes sense. Thank you so much for, for going into that detail. Cause I think it is something a lot of people don’t know much about and so it’s good to to understand it. So Absolutely. As I, as I mentioned at the introduction of today’s show, the program that you’re building, uh, is likely going to become a model for others like it.

Karma: And so what are the plans look like? Making [00:19:00] this a model for helping others maybe who have similar programs to, uh, to tpe to be able to, to build this kind of component in, um,

Adela: when we were doing the research about other programs of this sort, I. I cannot say a hundred percent sure, but everything that I researched pointed to the fact that there were many creative writing programs in English, but I didn’t find one in Spanish or bilingual.

Adela: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Uh, and I thought that this was strange considering, as you said at the beginning, high percentage of Latina Latino population. In prisons, in southern states, in the United States. Um, I thought that, um, this program, uh, is going to really, uh, become emblematic of both, both a need to think of [00:20:00] reformation and, and, uh, in a more, um, holistic way.

Adela: I’m thinking of the United States as a diverse. Also in, in terms of language and culture place, right? So, um, this is what I think, or I find exciting the program. We’ll probably have a bilingual component because many of the students are, are heritage speakers such as many of our UT students, they have an authentic relationship with Spanish, but mainly their schooling was more in English.

Adela: So the idea is to be able to. , um, think of both languages, um, in, in conjunction. And I think that for us to use language we can and have a lot of advantages when we are bilingual.

Karma: Yeah. So if [00:21:00] someone is listening and they’re really excited about this program and they wanna get involved, is there a way for people who haven’t taken the writing on the Edge course or who haven’t already been working with TPE to, to get

Sarah: involved?

Sarah: Absolutely, I would recommend the, um, best thing to do is to go to our website. Um, if you just Google Texas Prison Education Initiative or you put it into whatever your, um, your search engine is, then it will come up and on the website there’s a way to click and sign up for our listserve. And we don’t send that many emails.

Sarah: It’s not gonna sort of clog your inbox. Um, but anyone can get on that email listserv, and that’s where we really circulate opportunities. For getting involved. So we’ll start to um, or we already have started to do that with Palabra and I think that it would be great if we could find ways of getting more undergraduate and graduate students involved.

Sarah: Um, and that’s gonna be the mechanism to do it.

Adela: Yes, Umbra, there are many ways to collaborate with the project. [00:22:00] One, one aspect will be, To, um, develop our penal collaboration between students at UT and students at, at the, at the facilities. And so, uh, because there is no internet, uh, the idea would be to have messengers, right?

Adela: Right. So we could have some sort of like program where we could write letters and there would be, you know, a pen pipe collaboration. And we are thinking that this is going to. Very nice. Our students already in the writing on the Edge, we are thinking about why is it important to write letters? You know, we recently, um, had an exercise where we, I asked them to write letters and they were saying that they felt, um, very, very, how can I say?

Adela: Um, that they miss the fact that in our era we write messages all the time, but these are [00:23:00] quick messages and we receive them in, in an instantaneous way, whereas an editor takes time, but it also develops this very effective relationship. So the students will letter to their grandmas, to their, to their friends, to email people who.

Adela: I’m not in this earth anymore. And, and for them was a powerful exercise. So I think writing lectures between the students at UT and the students in incarcerated settings is going to bring communities together in a very meaningful way. So we are looking for moving different type of, of collaborations for this.

Karma: Wonderful. I, I’m, again, I’m so excited to have had, uh, this conversation with you, but we’re actually at the end of our time now, so, uh, thank you so much, Sarah and Adela for being here today.

Sarah: Thank you so much for having us Karma.

Adela: Yes, the same here at Karma. Thank for sure,

Karma: again, our guest today. Uh, were Adela Pineda-Franco and Sarah Brayne [00:24:00] who are running the new Pido la Palabra, a Texas prison literature project for social justice and the literary imagination funded by the Mellon Foundation.

Karma: I’ve been your host, Karma Chavez, and this is LatinXperts.

Outro: Hi y’all. This is Ashley Nav Moros, the communications associate, a Latino Studies. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. Make sure to check out the Latino Studies Instagram page. Follow us at Latino studies, ut to keep the conversation going.