Why is Visual Media Representation Important to Latinos?

[00:00:00] Karma Chavez: You’re listening to LatinXperts, a podcast of Latino Studies at the University of Texas at Austin Latin Experts features the voices of faculty, staff, and students, as well as friends and alumni of the Department of Mexican, American and Latino. Latino studies, the Latino Research Institute and the Center for Mexican American Studies. Jin us for this episode of LatinXperts.

[00:00:44] why is visual media representation important to Latinos? I’m Karma Chavez, and this is LatinXperts. Latinos have been active photographers nearly from the inception of the medium, but are more or less absent from standard histories of photography. This has meant that Western curators, media and academics have paid little attention to Latino photographers despite their extensive body of work.

[00:01:10] Well, Texas native and Austin resident, Roj Rodriguez is a leader in this medium. Rodriguez’s work has been acquired by four museums in their permanent collections. These museums include the Museum of Fine Arts of Houston, the San Antonio Museum of Art, the National Museum of Mexican Art in Chicago, and the La Plaza de Yar in Los Angeles.

[00:01:32] His new book, Mi Sangre, which will be out later this year from Hatje Cantz began as a photo documentation of a personal journey to retrace his Mexican heritage and soon evolved into a broader project aimed at highlighting Mexican culture on both sides of the US Mexico border. Everyday life, culture and popular iconography in Mexico are documented here, but portrayed as they are seen in Mexico and as Mexican Americans in the US reinterpret them with each of the subjects portrayed.

[00:02:04] Rodriguez engaged in sometimes casual. Sometimes insightful conversations. Mi Sangre includes proud and elegant charros, beautiful and skilled escaramuzas, joyful and coy children wise and innocent elders. Vibrant and talented, mariachi musicians, loving and welcoming families. And Rodriguez’s interpret reinterpretations of loteria iconography.

[00:02:29] In addition to the beautiful photography, the Honorable Henry Cisneros wrote an introductory essay, Dolores Huerta provided a foreword and Cheech Marin offered an endorsement on the jacket among other important contributors. And we get a chance to talk to Roj about his work here. So Roj welcome to Latin experts. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:02:49] So I am so excited about your work. I’ve only seen it in PDF form, obviously, but uh, it’s beautiful. And I guess I’m interested to start with how you got into photography in the first place.

[00:03:01] Roj Rodriguez: Funny story. It’s, um, uh, it started as an elective. Because I was majoring in graphic designing over at the University of Houston, and of course I had to choose between, uh, silk screen pottery, photography, and I forget whatever, what, what other medium.

[00:03:18] So I chose photography. Mm-hmm. and. What completely took over was I was creating something through this medium and I just instantly fell in love. Mm. Uh, my background is chemical photography. Mm-hmm. , where you process your own film develop. Uh, and, and so the, the smell of D 76 in the dark room with, uh, you know, uh, some nice jazz music in the background and a bottle of wine, you there in the dark.

[00:03:46] that was, uh, it was such a romance. Yeah, right. Uh, to, to be in control of what you’re creating, the dodging and the burning. And then you come out with this beautiful print and like, I made this. Yeah. So that only, uh, solidified. my belief that, you know, I can, I can do this. Yeah. Uh, so back then I was naive to the fact that I didn’t know you, you could make a career out of this.

[00:04:14] Right. So, um, hailing from Houston, I started to assist a lot of local photographers. Uh, and that was primarily like shooting annual reports, corporate head shots. Nothing glamorous, right? Mm-hmm. . Uh, but then one day a New York photographer came down to Houston to photograph destiny’s. and, uh, since I was on the roster of assistant photographers there in Houston, called me up, I said yes, and at the end of the assignment he’s like, you know what?

[00:04:43] I really like how you work. If you ever decide to pursue this as a career and come up to New York, gave me a call. . I said, thank you, but no, I mean New York City. Yeah, because New York City back then in my head was from what I saw in the movies. Yeah. The Death Wish movies, Joe’s Apartment , you know? So I’m like, oh, no, no, no, no.

[00:05:00] You know? Thank you. But no. So fast forward a month, he emails me again. He says, listen, before you say no again, think about it. Yeah, I did. I bit the bullet. Uh, sold most of my gear, uh, in truck and I flew over to New York City to give it a shot. Uh, and, you know, being the first one to leave the family nest.

[00:05:20] It it, yes, it was very intimidating. It was scary. I was scared. Yeah. I was genuinely like, what did I just do? , you know, there I am on the flight over. Yeah. Uh, and so, but make that long story short. Got off the plane, hit the ground running. I wound up working with a photographer for a year. Uh, but within that year I started to network getting my name out there cuz I wanted to work with other photographers there, uh, whose work I admired.

[00:05:48] Mm-hmm. . And, uh, I’m glad that my hard work paid off. Before long I was working with Mark Seiger, Terry ROEs and LeComb, Mary Ellen and Mark, uh, Ruben aor, uh, Michael Mueller. Nathaniel watch big photographers, right? Yeah. And I was traveling the world. Oh my God. I was traveling the world. I was going to these exotic places that I had only seen in TV shows or in magazines and you know, it was like mentally I was still that poor Mexican kid.

[00:06:15] Yeah. But on the out outside, I’m like, yes. Yes. I worked hard for this. Totally. Um, and so, so that definitely each assignment by assisting these photographers made me that much more of a better assistant. Mm-hmm. , because I knew one day I was gonna go out on my own. Yeah. Um, And, uh, so that happened in 2006. I decided to leave the, uh, masochistic world of the photo assistant to go out on my own.

[00:06:43] Yeah. Uh, but within that time, having, having flown to New York City in and of itself was such a life changing experience. I remember the first week I was there writing in one of the, uh, subway cars. I looked around and never before in my life have I. Been surrounded by so many different cultures, so many different people.

[00:07:04] I instantly fell in love with New York City. Um, but by living and working in New York City nonstop with the hustle and bustle, I started to kind of like I was losing my identity. Mm. Of sorts. Yeah. I was, I felt like I was just becoming another drone. Mm-hmm. another rat in the maze. And so, um, it was actually through, um, uh, Lela Downs, uh, who’s a big, super big famous, uh, singer and songwriter from, uh, Oaxaca, Mexico.

[00:07:37] Her music really resonated with me. Uh, at first it was, oh, I love the, I love her music, you know, but then it started the words, the lyrics started to click mm-hmm. , and I’m like, I need to go out and discover who I am, where I come from. Yeah. So, uh, back in 2005, that’s when I started this personal project to reconnect my identity.

[00:08:02] Okay. Right. Uh, so it was, uh, uh, it was a pretty, unbeknownst to me at the time, it was gonna be a much. Adventure than I thought it was gonna

[00:08:13] Karma Chavez: be. Yeah, yeah. Well, and in your intro to your book, , you write that I look to capture pride in visual form. Will you talk

[00:08:23] Roj Rodriguez: about that? Absolutely. Uh, pride in the sense

[00:08:29] Um, you know, not only saying that I’m, I’m proud to be Mexican American, I’m proud that my parents, uh, made their sacrifices. It’s the visual form of, uh, of people actually continuing to practice. their culture through music, through uh, through outfits, through cooking. Mm-hmm. through, uh, through the language and dance and so forth.

[00:08:54] So to me, that was the visual form. Mm-hmm. , right. So it’s kind of like, uh, I was just putting, uh, to me mentally, I was putting a video to the. That I fell in love with mm-hmm. . So to me that was the visual form. And so, uh, I cut my blessings that, um, uh, I’ve developed quite an eye in capturing something that I would love to see.

[00:09:21] Yeah. So from that perspective, so I, uh, with each photograph that I took, There’s got to be at least two or three or four hours worth of investment in conversing with a person before I photographed them. Mm-hmm. . So, uh, I didn’t want this to be an impersonal, uh, at a distance. photo project. I wanted, I wanted the person to know me and what it was that I was trying to accomplish.

[00:09:47] Mm-hmm. in this entire project. And, um, what started out as a personal project just exploded internationally. Mm. Right. Uh, and I give a lot of thanks to, um, uh, Ann Wilkes Tucker, who at the time was a senior, um, photography curator at the Museum of Fun Arts of Houston. Mm-hmm. . Opened the doors to the Fine Art Gallery museum world.

[00:10:10] Um, and so, uh, she, uh, she called me up, told me that, uh, she would like to acquire the work for, for the collection. And there I am in New York, in the apartment crying right on the phone. Yeah. I’m like, oh my God. Yes. Yes, of course. You know, uh, And, and, and that door opened another door and then it opened up another door.

[00:10:35] And then, you know, you started to build the equity in the work Yeah. Where I was not, not just a, you know, a one time, you know, a one time hit wonder type thing. Yeah. So it, it definitely developed and started getting the attention of many fine art collectors, curators, and so that it just, it. Re reinforced my confidence and what it was that I was doing, what I was trying to accomplish, that Wow.

[00:11:03] Other people see that as well. Mm-hmm. . So I thought it was very, very, uh, uh, humbling. It was very cool. Yeah. And, you know, just, it just like really solidified my belief. Yeah.

[00:11:15] Karma Chavez: Ah, I love that. Well, so you had dewar right? Um, the forward to the book and, um, which I thought her piece was lovely. And of course, it’s so wonderful that she’s in the book as well, given her stature amongst Latino people.

[00:11:31] And she invites readers as they’re looking at these beautiful images, closeup images, um, just interesting imagery. She says that she, she wants readers to imagine the stories behind the pictures. I wondered, imagining is one thing, but people can’t see it yet. So maybe you can introduce us to a couple of the stories of, of folks that you talked with for 2, 3, 4 hours before capturing their

[00:11:55] Roj Rodriguez: image.

[00:11:56] Oh, absolutely. I think, um, the images that to me mentally, Will always remain iconic, would be weathered hands. Mm. You know, a very subtle, sincere smile, uh, from someone. The gestures, uh, the, the, uh, it’s, it’s like the innocence in both the seniors that I photographed, uh, the, the innocence in children that I photographed.

[00:12:25] Uh, it’s just those little nuances where I think, uh, People can connect with the stories. Mm-hmm. , uh, I’ve had, um, uh, uh, this one, this one, uh, director in Harlem. Um, he saw my work and he really stopped at this one image of, uh, of, uh, of a farmer’s hands. Mm-hmm. weathered beautiful hands. Uh, he started crying.

[00:12:49] He’s like, oh my God, it reminds me of my grandfather. Yeah. You know, uh, so. Like that, or a simple gesture or you know, a smile from, you know, from your ab you remember it, it, it, uh, you know, I call it that rat tattoo e moment where in the movie he takes the bite and it flashes him back to his childhood.

[00:13:09] Yeah, totally. D you know, it’s his first bite of, of that dish. Yeah. So, um, I’m glad that people connect with the images because, you know, everyone’s got their story, their memory of someone they know personally, or someone that, uh, that they may have read about. Uh, so I think, uh, I think it’s very, um, uh, reassuring that people.

[00:13:38] Truly have a genuine connection with, with, uh, with the photographs in the book. Mm-hmm. . So I think it’s very special. I, I really do. Each image, um, is testament to, uh, not only the time invested that I took with these people to, to get to know them, they, me, what it was that I’m doing, but the miles that I’ve travel.

[00:14:03] Over the years because this project started in 2005 and I took my last photograph in 2016. Wow. So it’s, to me, it is your life at a glance. Mm-hmm. . Right. You know, the, the, the hours, the miles flown, driven, getting lost in rural roads in Mexico, , and let me tell you, GPS is not, is not too kind between the mountains over there.

[00:14:28] Yeah. So, but um, that’s when I relied. On the generosity of people, you know, guiding me in the right direction. So it, this entire project also reflects a collaborative effort. Mm-hmm. from. My family, my wife, you know, uh, uh, we were doing our sacrifices. Uh, you know, her being in New York, we just started a, uh, uh, a young family.

[00:14:56] Uh, and there I am traveling, covering this because I needed to recharge my batteries. Mm-hmm. that, that’s what it also became, yeah. An opportunity for me to recharge my batteries and through this, Project, uh, it just realigned my true north mm-hmm. , so to speak. Uh, and I, I found my identity not only as a person, but as a Latino, as a Mexican American, as a son of, uh, immigrants, um, as an artist.

[00:15:23] Mm-hmm. . So I think it, it definitely has. Brought me to who I am now. Yeah. All of those experiences.

[00:15:33] Karma Chavez: Yeah. I, I I love that you laid all that out. And I wanna just pick up on something you said about the, the duration of the work, because I think maybe for students or young people, or maybe everyone right now, there’s a fast paceness, um, people want the work to get done and, you know, people are searching.

[00:15:51] YouTuber, TikTok fame or you know, these things by kind of this instant gratification, I guess. Um, and what you’ve described is the, the slow pacing and the duration of the work and the work that is both, uh, deeply personal, but just the actual labor to do it well and. I guess I just wanted to ask you to expand on that, like what does it really take to do the quality of work that you do?

[00:16:17] It’s not something that’s gonna happen in an instant,

[00:16:19] Roj Rodriguez: right? No, of course. Uh, when I started this, I knew I was about to embark on one hell of a journey. I didn’t know how long it was gonna take, but I made sure I had the proper, if I could use the metaphors I made. I had the proper hiking boots. I’m not gonna wear my sneakers to a 500 mile journey.

[00:16:39] Mm-hmm. . Right? So I knew early on that this was gonna be bigger. Mm-hmm. down the road. It wasn’t just gonna be a one time assignment. A personal assignment. Right. Yeah. So, uh, why I emphasize it was a personal assignment because it wasn’t for a client where I was paid to find an image like that extra added pressure, like, oh, I better, I better deliver.

[00:17:03] No. It was a reset, mental, emotional, and spiritual reset for me to go down. I could have easily gone, uh, uh, flown back to Houston. Sure. And you know, document, but no. My, my, my parents being from Mexico, we would tr they would take us to Mexico to, for summer breaks, birthdays, you name it. Right. So a lot of that magic stayed with me.

[00:17:30] Mm-hmm. . So I wanted to re rediscover that magic. Yeah. Um, but, I didn’t go back to the same towns where, you know, uh, I decided to go all over Mexico, just like the cliche, wherever the wind took me. Yeah. I went, uh, so I think that’s where the, the, uh, the adrenaline, the excitement, um, really took into play to like, this is a new experience.

[00:17:57] Let me photograph. Uh, here’s a beautiful person I just met. Got to talking, let me photograph them. Mm-hmm. , you know, uh, so it was, um, it was definitely, uh, uh, there was some prep work I knew, um, I was gonna return to Mexico. Uh, and, and so it, it, it was definitely, it was. An endeavor for instant gratification.

[00:18:28] Mm-hmm. , you know? Yeah. Like when you post something on Facebook and you’re just like waiting for the likes, waiting for the, no, this was way before then, so I’m glad. Um, and I was pretty late to jump on the whole social media bandwagon. Yeah. Um, but, but to me, no, it was like the MO taking the cab over to jfk, the flight over.

[00:18:49] I was mentally. Releasing everything. Right? As far as like expectations. Just like, Hey, whoever I meet, wherever I go, that’s gonna be my day. Mm-hmm. . Um, and it was, uh, I think it’s important now for the Latinx youth to just kind of like, you know what, no need to rush something like this. Easy come, easy go.

[00:19:15] Yeah. Right. It, it’s, it really was, uh, it, it, it, I mean, yes. I mean, it’s human nature to all, to one instant gratification. Right? Um, but for something like this, I wanted, this may be the only big project I ever, ever do for myself. Mm-hmm. , I wanted to take my time for it to be right. Rather than living with regret, like, oh, I should have not rushed that.

[00:19:41] Oh man, I should have, I should have gone here to take that photograph. Oh, I, I, I hurried too much. Uh, so it was like, okay, that’s why many, I kept Delta Airlines at Mexico in business, , you know? Um, and, and so, but no, it was, it was exciting. It, it really was. Uh, it, it was, it was a journey of rediscovery. Uh, My, myself.

[00:20:09] Right. Uh, as a Latino, as Mexican American, as son of immigrant, this is, you know, so, so it, it makes me all reflect to the sacrifices that my parents made. Mm-hmm. , there’s a reason why they left their country to come here. Yeah. You know? Um, so it, so it, it also became a, uh, uh, a sort of, retrospect and giving thanks.

[00:20:40] Mm-hmm. to their sacrifices. Yeah. Uh, such a beautiful culture. Such a beautiful people’s, you know, uh, don’t get me started on the morning. Oh, there’s some good stuff there, . Uh, but, you know, it, it, it really, it, it enhanced, it opened up different sensors visually. Uh, mentally. Yeah. You know, it, it, it, it, it really became a life changing experience for myself.

[00:21:06] Mm-hmm. , uh, I, I really did become a better person overall in appreciation who I am. This one little micro thread in this big tapestry that we all live in here in the United States of America. Yeah. You know, hasn’t been so united lately, but we’re, we’re, we are our fabric. Yeah. Okay. So that’s, that’s, that’s pretty much, uh, uh, that, that overall experience.

[00:21:34] Yeah.

[00:21:35] Karma Chavez: Yeah. I, I, I, I love that you expanded on that. I love hearing about that. So we’re, we’re winding down to the end of our time. Um, the question that I posed, so all of these episodes that we do on Latin experts are a question, and so I framed this conversation around the importance of visual media representation for Latinos.

[00:21:57] And so I wanna pitch that question to you. Um, why is it important to have Latino representation, whether we’re talking about the high arts or popular culture

[00:22:07] Roj Rodriguez: being. Pop culture to fine art, to, to any medium from, uh, from the, uh, motion picture industry, to the music industry, uh, to the, uh, to, to the cooking industry.

[00:22:21] Right? Yeah. I think there, there, there, there can’t be no taxation without representation. Right. It’s good to see. Someone like you, someone like me in a movie mm-hmm. , someone like me that can produce this beautiful piece of art mm-hmm. and it be revered and respected and, and, and, uh, admired. Uh, because I think it’s, uh, you know, kind of like, uh, if I could use this term, if I go to my doctor, my doctor looks like me, uh, I’m gonna listen to him, what he has to say.

[00:22:54] Yeah. You know, as opposed to not having that connection mm-hmm. right. To someone who. It doesn’t look like me. Be like, okay, what does this guy know? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, but I think it’s really important to, to have that representation. Um, it’s, it’s good to see that representation, but in a positive light.

[00:23:13] Right. Not the stereotypes in the movie industry. We’re no longer the gangsters in the drug dealers, and, you know mm-hmm. , uh, the pimps and so forth and so on, where people. With education, with a voice. Um, so I think that’s very empowering, uh, especially for the Latinx youth. Mm-hmm. , um, uh, and the next generation.

[00:23:34] It, it’s good for them to, to, to identify it with that struggle and that representation in a positive light. Uh, again, it’s, it’s great to have that, uh, in, in pop culture and fine art, a music industry, uh, be it from Cardi B all the way to Jorge. Mm-hmm. . Who, who by the way, is another contributor in my book.

[00:23:54] Yeah. Uh, whose work I absolutely love and admire. Um, and then over to the movie industry, you know, being from the directors to the actors from Diego Luna to hor, uh, GU Toto. Yeah. Uh, so I think it’s very empowering to see Yeah, I could do that. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. They did it. I, I, why, why can’t I? Sure. You know, so I think it’s, um, it’s all about positive reinforcement.

[00:24:18] Karma Chavez: Yeah. I love that. I think that’s gonna be a great place for us to end our conversation. Awesome, awesome. Um, again, our guest today, uh, is the photographer Roj Rodriguez, talking about his forthcoming book, Mi Sangre, which will be out in November. Uh, Roj, thank you so much for being here today. Uh, again, folks, thanks so much for listening.

[00:24:39] Uh, I’m Karma Chavez, and this has been LatinXperts.

[00:24:46] Hi all. This is Ashley Nava-Monteros, the communications Associate at Latino Studies. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. Make sure to check out the Latino Studies Instagram page. Follow us @latinostudiesut to keep the conversation going.