Into the COLAverse – Episode 12: Jossiana Arroyo-Martínez

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Into the Colaverse, a podcast that takes us on the unique journeys of faculty in the College of Liberal Arts at UT Austin. Join me your host, Frederick Luis Aldama as we learn of the many ways that our faculty and their cutting edge work is transforming the world today. It is my absolute pleasure to have Jossiana Arroyo here with me today for our Into the Colaverse podcast.

[00:00:30] Frederick: Jossiana is professor of Latin American and Caribbean literatures and cultures in the departments of Spanish and Portuguese, as well as African and African diaspora studies. She’s also the author of several. Groundbreaking books, including Writing Secrecy and Caribbean Free Masonry, and the forthcoming Kariba 2.0.

[00:00:51] Frederick: New media Globalization and the Afterlife of Disaster. Mm-hmm. Welcome, Jossiana

[00:00:58] Jossiana: Thank you for having me, Fred. So wonderful to see you and, and you know, now you’re my colleague. So

[00:01:05] Frederick: wonderful. I know our, our, our collaboration started before all of that. I know. And now we get to be colleagues. I’m so excited. Yes.

[00:01:14] Frederick: Um, so tell me, uh, Jossiana. Let’s dig a little bit back and how, how is it that you’re kind of, where you are looking kind of back from where you are to where you’ve come from. Was there something in the water that you were drinking that was like, I am going to be a scholar of kind of Caribbean intellectual histories, Um, de-colonial practices.

[00:01:44] Frederick: Yeah. Tell us about your origin during your journey.

[00:01:47] Jossiana: Yes. Um, so I started, um, well first of all, I think, uh, I, I could repeat with Michelle Pro Trio, that history sat at the dinner table in my house, uh, particularly Puerto Rican history. Uh, my dad, uh, was a student of history. He didn’t study history at the end, but he was in, so we spoke.

[00:02:12] Jossiana: About Caribbean histories, particularly Puerto Rican, but mostly the interrelations, uh, of Caribbean histories. Um, The stories of the Spanish Caribbean, Cuba, Puerto Rico, uh, the Dominican Republic, uh, were shared constantly. Uh, but also, um, as I move in, um, I mean, I was an avid breeder, uh, since I was. You know, little, um, and history and literature became kind of like my core subjects growing up.

[00:02:46] Jossiana: Um, I was always interested also in performance studies. So when I graduated, uh, my senior year, I, I hesitated and I was like, probably I will study drama and at literature, but then literature one, and this is how I started, uh, working, uh, with, uh, Caribbean literature and culture. I graduated from the University of Puerto Rico, and then I moved, uh, to pursue graduate studies at the University of California at Berkeley, uh, where I graduated from in 1998.

[00:03:22] Jossiana: Uh, I was really, really lucky to be at Berkeley, uh, with a core of Caribbean scholars and, and also African and African diaspora scholars like be Clark and Barbara, Christine, uh, and many others. Uh, Who actually, uh, solidified, um, meaning my interest in, uh, in Caribbean, but also black studies, which is one of the core, uh, areas that I study.

[00:03:50] Jossiana: Um, I also, uh, work with Jose David Salva, uh, at many other Latino studies scholars. Uh, and, uh, faced, you know, the, the realities of, of that as I moved to California, um, a great place to be in, uh, Berkeley in the nineties. Um, I mean, and if Ferguson culture, uh, Latinx, uh, Students, uh, which chaired my background.

[00:04:18] Jossiana: Uh, and then I realized that, um, we have more commonalities, right? As a first generation Puerto Rican in the Bay. And then I decided to stay in the United States as a scholar. . Um, I realized that Latin dad and the conversations among Latin dad and Caribbean studies, uh, as well as blackness were, were kind of central to what I did.

[00:04:41] Jossiana: Um, my first job was at the University of Michigan and Arbor and, and then, uh, after I was promoted, I moved to the University of Texas at Austin when I’ve been since, um, and where I became a full professor.

[00:04:56] Frederick: So exciting to be your colleague. Same place, same institution. Jossiana, tell me were there, um, struggles, obstacles, um, overcome along your journey, your scholarship?

[00:05:10] Frederick: I mean, putting, um, you know, black studies together, especially, um, you know, by the way, of course, Barbara Christian, uh, had a huge, um, print on me as well. Oh yes. Um, My goodness. And, you know, bring black, black studies, Caribbean studies, uh, together with, you know, latinx Latino studies as you were, you know, taking your journey through, not just your PhD, but also in your, your first

[00:05:40] Jossiana: books.

[00:05:41] Jossiana: Yes, Yes. It was, it was really interesting because it was challenging. Um, as you remember very well in the nineties, uh, there was, there were a lot of. And cross and transnational conversations happening, uh, in, in California, particularly in the uc, Berkeley campus. Uh, but, uh, I remember, uh, being confronted not only by certain colleagues, uh, uh, people in my cohort, but also professors, uh, who told me, What are you doing?

[00:06:11] Jossiana: I mean, why are you, uh, insisting in, in, in working with, with, uh, black. Uh, and that, uh, what, what is happening in, in the Spanish Caribbean that needs to be, uh, centered at, on blackness and why it’s important, uh, for, for Latinos, right? For first, second, and third generation. Um, and even I remember a really.

[00:06:38] Jossiana: Friend, uh, Brazilian, uh, I, I completed, I had many, many scholarships. I was very well supported at Berkeley, uh, uh, with scholarships, uh, from many centers. And in one of the scholarships I remember I did a cycle of cinema in which I included, uh, Northeast Brazil. As part of the group of, of Black Studies films that we were watching.

[00:07:03] Jossiana: Right. Um, and she was like, The Brazilian North is, doesn’t have anything to do with the Caribbean. Right. Um, and at those moments, I mean, I realized that I didn’t have the language to speak about Afro diasporas, uh, but I was already doing, uh, a lot of that transnational. With my insights. So, uh, I always encourage my students, uh, even today, uh, to kind of like, go through this uncomfortable questions, um, and kind of like delve into that niche, uh, because usually this is where a lot of the good insights come out.

[00:07:41] Jossiana: Um, as I graduated and I finished my dissertation, uh, that became my first book, S um, I started reading c. So I, I, I always being, uh, one of this, and I guess that happens to you too, one of these lucky scholars that. As it’s as, as you finish one project, you’re already like reading for the other. They, they kind of, the conversation continues, but with different questions.

[00:08:05] Jossiana: So, um, I found, uh, the writings of Schaumburg in the Berkeley library, um, and I realized, wow, you know, like there’s, there’s more, there’s more that we could do, uh, with art sh. Um, and, uh, precisely hanberg his work. I mean, seats precisely in the conversation between Afro, that and, you know, and what we call Afro Latinos today, and Caribbean and Migrations.

[00:08:35] Jossiana: Um, so the first chapter that came from writing secrecy was, uh, the one I dedicated to Shamburg, um, Andre Masonry, and then the others, uh, developed from.

[00:08:48] Frederick: Wow. Such a, such a rich, exciting, and yet challenging, uh, journey. Jossiana, you know, it’s interesting because I know that you’ve done work on Fernando Ortiz.

[00:09:01] Frederick: Oh, yeah. And, you know, the Cuban counterpoint was for me, it’s still one of the most. I would say, but maybe I’m wrong, kind of undervalued, uh, works right. Especially when it comes to his very deep understanding of how. You know, could we kubanda and convergence and emergence happened with black mati and indigenous cultures to make a third culture.

[00:09:30] Frederick: Um, but maybe I’m getting it wrong.

[00:09:33] Jossiana: No, no, I think, I think you have a point. Um, Fernando, these. I, I was really lucky that, um, in the nineties there was a revival of Ortiz, and as you know, as you were, uh, part of that group that I started reading the, the Cuban Counterpoint, um, it was translated as well a couple of years later.

[00:09:53] Jossiana: In the only addition, um, I think it’s in addition from Duke University Press. Uh, so Transation became kind of the core, uh, of, of many, uh, many discussions. Uh, among, among us particularly, uh, Caribbean, Latino, Latinx scholars, uh, that we’re seeking, uh, an understanding of what happens with culture and power, right?

[00:10:18] Jossiana: Uh, what happens with our cultures that are mixed cultures. But at the same time, uh, gain and lose, right in the dynamics of power and in the struggles of power in society. So, um, Ortiz gave us, uh, in many ways, uh, a path, uh, to understand that not everything is simulation, right? Uh, that are cultures and our language.

[00:10:47] Jossiana: Uh, our, our, our inputs, our bodies, right, uh, are always in this phases of, of, of, of struggle. Uh, this dynamics of power, uh, that are not necessarily assimilated by mainstream culture. So this is, uh, I believe, What Fernando Ortiz gave to me. Um, I work, um, I continue working with, uh, with Ortiz later on. Um, and I also follow the path of Francis Bario and Susan Chave Silverman and many others who have used, uh, Transculturation, uh, for Latino or Latina Latinx.

[00:11:29] Jossiana: Studies, um, nowadays, right? Uh, my colleague Lauren La Stocks has this wonderful book called Trans Locas, right when he’s using transculturation, but also the trans metaphor, uh, to understand, uh, sexuality. And drag cultures in the Caribbean. And I think this is all, uh, imparting all this research is a, is a rethinking of Ortiz.

[00:11:56] Jossiana: I mean, uh, many Cuban scholars, uh, contemporary scholars have criticized, including myself. Uh, I’m, I’m a little harsh on Ortiz, particularly in his view of blackness. Uh, but as you say, um, he is, uh, the first, uh, The first color, I mean, anthropologist, uh, in Cuba that offers a. Uh, to, to the cultural, uh, interaction, right among whites, blacks, um, and indigenous cultures in the

[00:12:29] Frederick: country.

[00:12:30] Frederick: Oh my goodness, I, Jossiana, so much going on in my brain right now, as you can imagine. But let me, let, let me take us to VUS 2.0 and I let, I want, God, I’m so excited for, for this book as. Thank you. Um, but let me ask you two points here, just, um, that our audience will have mo most likely as a reference. One is Super Bowl 2020 and the other one is this Baito with Justin Bieber.

[00:13:02] Frederick: Um, right. Um, 2017. And I know you talk about both, but tell me. Jossiana. Like what? What are these two kind of pop cultural moments showing us? Yeah. What do they show? What, What would we learn? What can we learn from these two instances of pop culture?

[00:13:26] Jossiana: Yes. Well, let me start with the Theto moment and Fences 2017, and then we moved to the Super Bowl.

[00:13:33] Jossiana: Uh, 2020 Moment with, with Jennifer Lopez and Shakita. Um, I think, uh, the Pasito, uh, was, uh, Theto was a song, uh, as you know, that that was played for, uh, years, I will say like a year or so, uh, in the Spanish arts. Right in, in the popular Spanish shorts and radio in Spanish. Right. Um, and it was already popular.

[00:14:02] Jossiana: Um, and then Justin b Justin Bieber did the phrasing, uh, in English. And then the song became, uh, actually more popular, uh, particularly with. Uh, English, uh, audiences. Um, what is really interesting about this PTO is that, um, it not only has become, um, and, and, and I don’t know if it’s the one now, uh, but up until that Bonnie’s , uh, recent album, this pasito was the most mainstream, uh, video and song.

[00:14:38] Jossiana: In the history of YouTube, uh, it had billions and billions of, of viewers, right? Um, and it was film Puerto Rico. Um, for Latinos who understand Spanish or who speak Spanish as the first language, it is really easy to understand the kind of like double and tundra in this song, right? Is a song about love making and sexuality.

[00:15:01] Jossiana: A man who uses a woman and takes her to the beach, um, and, and. An erotic encounter that goes a little slow and slowly, this pasito, right? Um, but what is interesting is that the video, um, made the song more popular, not only the phrasing by Bieber, and this is an argument that Pedro Vera Reja makes like really strongly on her analysis of this Pai.

[00:15:28] Jossiana: Right. She said the song was already popular, uh, in, in, in Spanish. So it was the Latino and Spanish audience that made the song popular. And then with Bieber’s phrasing, it became, uh, bigger. Right. Uh, but what is really interesting is that the video. Um, became then kind of like ahead, right. And it, it was film in Laed in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

[00:15:54] Jossiana: Uh, Laed is a barrio, uh, in all San Juan, um, is is working class. Uh, it’s pretty close to the entrance of the bay, so it’s around the, the kind of like the most historical. Uh, castle, uh, the castles and the s uh, area. Uh, but, um, what is kind of interesting is that, uh, the video made la even more popular for tourists.

[00:16:23] Jossiana: So, uh, LA residents started making Despacito tours. Uh, to kind of like bring tourists, uh, particularly American tourists, but also tourist around the world. A view or where of where the, um, of where, um, the video was filmed. So this is an interesting, like, turn of events. Um, everything got, uh, kind of like more complicated as Hurricane Maria hit the island in 2017.

[00:16:56] Jossiana: And that same community got really, really affected. As many communities, uh, on the island. Uh, but um, that was the standing right of, of this pasito and the popularity of, of Antic song, right? That in many ways, uh, Attracted tourists, uh, into the island. Um, so with the 2020 Super Bowl , it’s a different story.

[00:17:24] Jossiana: Um, as you may know, uh, there was, uh, there were many black entertainers that were invited, uh, into the Super Bowl. Um, but, uh, many, uh, say no. Right? They were, uh, supporting, uh, calling NICs, uh, uh, Um, kind of like, uh, protest, uh, and black light matters supporters. Um, and of course, uh, criticizing Trump’s, uh, presidency and the treatment of, of not only blacks, but also Latinos and Latinx, uh, children, uh, that were coming through the border.

[00:18:06] Jossiana: Um, but two Latina, uh, very, uh, popular actress, you know, uh, singers, right? Shaquita and JLo accepted the challenge, and they were criticized. I don’t know if you remember, but Twitter went completely crazy. Uh, oh, my, You know, this is your typical, you know, Latino, you know, Brainwash, you know, performer who’s not supporting anything that’s happening with, with, uh, black, uh, black America, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:18:38] Jossiana: But the big surprise was that the mid show was specifically a critique, a very strong, strong critique of, uh, Trump policies at the border. I don’t know if you remember, but there was. Um, this amazing performance by the two of them. And then at the end of the performance, they had this cages, uh, in the middle of the stadium, right, uh, where kids, uh, were hold in.

[00:19:11] Jossiana: Uh, they came out of the cages and they started singing, uh, Let’s get Loud, Right? Uh, so it was a kind of like very, very forceful critique. Uh, to the Trump administration and everyone , everyone watch it, uh, from either their TV or from the stadium. It was a very watched show. So, um, the critique that came afterward, uh, was that, that it was a two political, and I don’t know if you remember, uh, but there were also a lot of critiques of the way Jennifer Lopez and Shakra were dancing.

[00:19:48] Jossiana: For the cameras, uh, once again, right? Uh, we cannot forget that Quida is from Baja, the Colombian Caribbean, and JLo is, is from the Bronx, uh, uh, uh, daughter of Puerto Rican parents. Um, and once again, kind of let the Latino Caribbean collusion kind of like became an issue, right? Through the performance, but specifically through, uh, their own racialized bodies.

[00:20:16] Jossiana: Right. Um, it was interesting also that Shaquita, um, made, I mean, of course her, her very, um, Arabic, uh, movements, uh, as well, uh, through the performance. So I think those two moments, uh, marked. In many ways, uh, what I call in, in Cardiova 2.0, uh, convergence culture, right? Um, we see, uh, that what Caribbean media publics, but also US based Caribbean, Latinx, and, and other populations are watching, uh, today, um, are kind of dis intersectionality, right?

[00:21:01] Jossiana: Um, that merge. Uh, not only television, but also, uh, pretty strong, uh, social critique. Um, and also, uh, kind of like this very strong, uh, performing bodies, right? And this, of course, are two popular artists. Uh, but in the book, I, I do mix, uh, popular culture. And performers like Shaquita JLo. I speak also of New Yorks, who is a crossover Cuban artist who has been really successful in Mexico.

[00:21:36] Jossiana: Um, and it’s kind of like an Latinx, many ways I can, right? Uh, but also I discuss black face, brown face. Um, they uses a blackface and brown facing comedy. Um, I, I also discuss, uh, performers like Le Juan James. For example, who are more, uh, in Instagram and, and, uh, and other platforms kind of like, uh, working, uh, with media v blogging.

[00:22:08] Jossiana: Um, and I also look at cartoons, uh, from, um, from Puerto Rican, um, Puerto Rican cartoon, San Angel Garcia. I’m among many other, uh, Kind of like, uh, text, right? Uh, texts, uh, that are kind of coming together through convergence media, right? Um, and this is what we access. We look at film, we look at television, we look at the internet, particularly YouTube and Facebook, right?

[00:22:42] Jossiana: Facebook for our generation, TikTok for others, uh, but then, um, This is where all the discussions on race, gender, sexuality, but also this is where politics, uh, in many ways, uh, and the racialized body in many ways are, are, are very present.

[00:23:03] Frederick: Wow. You actually, Jossiana, kind of answered my, my wrap up question, which was, you know, what can we take from your research into, you know, the real world to enrich our understanding, not just of say the way the mainstream constantly wants to frame.

[00:23:25] Frederick: In ways that myth misrepresent and simplify and essentialize. But also, you know, you also push really hard too on colorism in our own communities, right? Um, but what for our audience now, social media, digital platforms, the Super Bowl film literature, GABA 2.0, your work that’s kind of come, be behind that and informed that what.

[00:23:53] Frederick: Be your kind of ask for us to have a takeaway. What’s the takeaway for us? And yeah. Okay.

[00:24:00] Jossiana: So the takeaway is that, um, even though Latinx and black cultures in, in Caribbean, black cultures, uh, appear to be kind of strong performing cultures, right? Uh, based and centered on the body. Um, this are cultures who don’t necessarily live.

[00:24:22] Jossiana: In, uh, in this continuous party, right, . So what I really want to get across is that along with this performances, along with this, uh, pretty strong presence, uh, that we could see particularly in popular culture, but um, specifically in this new emerging bloggers and artists, uh, and influencers, um, there’s a lot.

[00:24:50] Jossiana: Of, of tension. Right. Um, and the tension, uh, is centered on, on the violences of phrase, uh, the commodification. Of bodies and objects, uh, the kind of like, uh, misrepresentation of our communities. Um, what is really interesting in many of this, uh, bloggers is that they use both English and Spanish. So the interest of translating for others is not there anymore because there’s a public that understands what they’re saying, right?

[00:25:28] Jossiana: Um, but, um, at the same time, um, We are, uh, even though, uh, many of these Publix and this performances look kind of successful, quote unquote, um, we are living, um, we are living in, in, in very dire and neo and you know, and, and, and violent neoliberal times, right? Uh, were disciples of, of. Uh, where racial violence is, is extremely present, uh, where sociality, uh, comes to all, all of our countries.

[00:26:07] Jossiana: I mean, not only, uh, in, in the islands, right? Uh, Puerto Rico is going through this. Terrible sociality modes. Right now, there is a crisis, uh, after Maria, right? Uh, uh, with the national disasters, the national disaster, right? Um, but also, uh, Latino. Latino and Latinx cultures and black cultures suffer, right? Uh, Police brutality.

[00:26:37] Jossiana: Uh, they are victims of the ne political state. Uh, one of my chapters, uh, and one of the most important ones and that I published, um, uh, first, um, in the book was the one about, um, the nontraditional funerals in Puerto Rico, right? Um, this, this kind of like, uh, extreme embalming, uh, bodies, um, that represent.

[00:27:05] Jossiana: Um, not only, uh, bodies that are engaging, uh, with, with a type of neoliberal script in a way, uh, but also a kind of way of standing, uh, in front of the crisis. So I think, uh, our communities, uh, and we see this, right, uh, uh, uh, with what has been happening, I mean, particularly, uh, recently, um, With, uh, with schools, right?

[00:27:35] Jossiana: With, with the shooting at Alde, uh, and many others, our communities are in pain. Um, so what, what is kind of like the message of the book is, is kind of like seeing both sides of both sides of the coin, Right. Uh, understanding that that. Popular culture, convergence media culture, uh, is about music. It’s about performance.

[00:27:59] Jossiana: It’s, it is about, uh, moving and lively bodies, but we need to see all of this dynamics, all of this magic of our cultures, uh, in the context, right? Of the, uh, expediency of the body, um, and, uh, the violence, the daily lives and the violence of daily lives, uh, that happens, uh, in the United States, uh, uh, as first, second, third generations, but also, um, in, uh, in the, in the algo in the Caribbean.

[00:28:34] Jossiana: Kip. Mm,

[00:28:36] Frederick: yes. Yeah, absolutely. To celebrate, but at the same time, to celebrate a affirm, but with our eyes wide open and critically wide open. Right? Jossiana? Yes. Um, gosh, Jossiana Arroyo, thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your journey with me here. And

[00:28:57] Jossiana: Yes, you’re welcome. You’re welcome. And, and list off more.

[00:29:01] Jossiana: Okay. Talking and dialog. Yes.

[00:29:04] Outro: Into The Colaverse is produced by the University of Texas at Austin’s College of Liberal Arts Sound Engineering by the Liberal Arts Instructional Technology Services. You can find Into the Colvaverse Podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. Thanks for listening and see you next time.