Into the COLAverse – Episode 7: Bassam Sidiki

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Into the Colaverse, a podcast that takes us on the unique journeys of faculty in the College of Liberal Arts at UT Austin. Join me your host, Frederick Luis Aldama, as we learn of the many ways that our faculty and their cutting edge work is transforming the world today.

[00:00:22] It’s my special honor to be here with Bassam Sidiki to talk about well parasitic empires, germ theory, pandemics in general, but also amazing things like poetry and, you know, essays that are modeled on the Endo Persian mode of oral storytelling. Bassam welcome.

[00:00:49] Bassam: Oh, thank you Frederick, for having me.

[00:00:53] Frederick: Bassam, tell me what is, Gosh, I mean, there’s so much on your Vita, of course. Um, you know, bachelors from Georgetown University Master’s. Medical humanities and bioethics from Northwestern PhD recently, very recently from the University of Michigan, and now assistant professor of English and Medical Humanities at the University of Texas at Austin with us.

[00:01:18] Frederick: But let’s go back and talk about your origin, uh, your superhero origin, if you will.

[00:01:26] Bassam: Sure. Yeah. Um, yeah, I can speak a little to, um, you know, where I’m from and, and how my life has, has shaped my intellectual and creative pursuits. Um, and then, so I, I was raised in Karachi, which is at this point, um, I don’t know, uh, the third largest.

[00:01:44] Bassam: City in the world by population, I think, um, in Bo, in, in, in Pakistan. Although I, I think now it’s, it’s population is increasing exponentially. I think at this point it’s like 25 million, um, if I’m not wrong, but I, I was raised there. Um, but in fact I was born even in, in interior Sinn in this, um, city called Sucker.

[00:02:05] Bassam: Um, and I, yes, I was born there. Um, and then when I was six months old, my parents. In my family, we, um, migrated to Karachi because that’s where like all the best education was. That’s where all the great job opportunities were. And, and so with my siblings and, and me and my parents, we moved there and then, so, you know, I.

[00:02:27] Bassam: We were fortunate enough to, you know, my parents were able to send us, like me and my siblings to very good schools. Um, and, you know, the legacy of British colonialism and the subcontinent to such that, um, you know, all our education, you know, was, we were in English medium schools, so all of our education was, you know, in English except for that the subject of Ordo, which was the Ordo language.

[00:02:51] Bassam: Um, and, and then so, you know, one of that was one of the things when we, when we eventually made. We migrated to the US was kind of, Well, whoa, your English is so great. And, you know, and then I had to tell Americans that, well, you know, it’s 300 years of British colonialism will do that. Um, you know, um, but, but yeah.

[00:03:08] Bassam: Uh, so that’s, but, but even, you know, in elementary school and middle school, I, I wasn’t, I had no idea that I would. You know, pursue a doc, pursue doctoral work in English. That was a long way off. You know, in the beginning I was more of a math and science guy, and then, you know, that’s my family, right? So my sister is now, you know, an md, but even from the beginning, sort of my, a lot of my uncles and aunts, they’re physicians.

[00:03:34] Bassam: Um, my dad, he’s in, uh, he was trained as a mechanical engineer. Um, And then, so, you know, and in my, for my mom, it was always, you always, you know, imagine me as a physician, you know, and, and so, you know, and then eventually, I, I, I started to discover this really, really sort of great love for literature and history and sociology and just the humanities were large.

[00:03:57] Bassam: Um, yeah. And, and then, then sort of in 2010 when I had just finished, like I, I had just one year of high school left. We migrated to the us Um, my mom’s brother. He’s a physician. He’s lived in Kalamazoo, Michigan for about 30, 35 years at this point. So he sponsored my mom and and her family for migration to the us and that was a process that began in 1998, I believe.

[00:04:26] Bassam: And so it took about 10 years for our green card to get processed and then we finally got it at the right time. Cause my sister and I always wanted to. To college in the US and, and so that’s how it ended up working out. Um, and then we, we came to, from Karara, you came to Kalamazoo, Michigan of all places,

[00:04:44] Bassam: And it was extremely disorienting. Um, you know, coming from one of the biggest cities of the world to this veritable, you know, um, village as it were. And, and you know, the silence. Especially for us was very disorienting and deafening. But you know, and then of course we saw a snow for the first time. You know, Karara is a very tropical, um, region.

[00:05:06] Bassam: And then, so that was in itself very, very at least, at least that winter, in that December of 20. 10, I believe was, especially in Michigan, was very, very cold. And you know, so the, you know, these experiences, um, I, I was doing my final year of high school there, and that was very different from British education.

[00:05:25] Bassam: You know, the American system is so different and so just adjusting to all of these things and then. And, and then, you know, um, as if all these traumas weren’t enough, uh, you know, six months after. So in February of 26, February, 2011, I was diagnosed with, um, Leukemia T-Cell, um, um, acute lymphoblastic leukemia is, is the name of the cancer.

[00:05:48] Bassam: And, um, you know, and then, so that was kind of. You know, I, and then I was admitted to the hospital and then that was, it took three years of treatment. So a combination of chemo and radiation to sort of, you know, so, so it was just, you know, migration itself, but then illness and you can already see sort of how.

[00:06:09] Bassam: That sort of experience would lead me to what I’m doing now or just studying the medical humanities, but within the post-colonial studies, um, framework, right? So how diseases are conceptualized within, um, sort of I, when looked through a post-colonial studies angle, how diseases are racialized within the colonial encounter, how medicine.

[00:06:31] Bassam: Is, is as a, is a discourse as a practice, which was often used as a justification for imperial power. Um, you know, and then so for me, and then again, I, I, I think of sort of, um, you know, and then Susan Saag and list’s metaphor, you know, she has this really brilliant opening line which everyone cites is kind of, you know, we hold two passports right in the kingdom of the well and the kingdom of the sick.

[00:06:55] Bassam: Right. And then so for me, it, it kind of became when Pakistan itself was the kingdom of the well for me, right? And when I came to the United States, it became the kingdom of the sick. And it was kind of my dual citizenship kind of became, became this dual citizenship of different kingdoms of the well and the sick.

[00:07:10] Bassam: But again, you know, if it weren’t for the medical care I received in the us, you know, I probably still wouldn’t be here. Right. The care that you get in Pakistan is nowhere near what I could have received here. So, so, you know, so it’s kind of these contradictions, um, that I, in my own, like creative work I, I sort of deal with, Right.

[00:07:28] Bassam: But of, again, you know, we say research is research and, and so inevitably these things, I mean the legacy of colonial power, um, migration, . Um, and, and, and, and then, you know, illness, they inevitably affected what I was, you know, researching in my doctoral work. Um, and Wow. So yeah, I will stop there for now, and sort of give

[00:07:51] Frederick: you some chance.

[00:07:52] Frederick: Wow. Baam, that’s like, there’s just so much there. Um, and, and really, I mean, you know, um, this is a superhero origin story. Absolutely. Um, let me ask you for, For, for some who might not be as well versed in some of these concepts and terms, when you talk about medical humanities, um, what exactly is medical humanities?

[00:08:20] Frederick: And I’m gonna ask the same of, of say, you know, post-colonial studies as

[00:08:24] Bassam: well. Yes, absolutely. And, and thank you for for asking me to sort of define my terms, cuz I realize this is for, you know, a public audience. And, um, so I’ll start with medical humanities. Um, it’s, it’s a relatively recent field. It’s an interdisciplinary field, which, which strives to understand disease and illness.

[00:08:44] Bassam: Um, not to the usual biomedical models that, you know, are perhaps are. In medical schools and so forth. Um, it strives to understand the experience of illness from sociological, philosophical, literary perspectives. Um, and sort of, you know, it entails, you know, and bioethics I, I think, is a related field, although I, I would strongly because, you know, we say that human, the humanities is not a one way train to.

[00:09:12] Bassam: Right. Um, being a humanist, but not necessarily make you a more ethical person, it, it can raise interesting questions about ethics. I, I think that is true, but, you know, but, but yeah, to your point, um, so the medical humanities is basically this new, um, uh, endeavor to sort of. Um, situate the medical profession in this historical context, right?

[00:09:34] Bassam: And, and be attuned to, you know, different, um, uh, uh, you know, power interests, for instance. Right? How does power influence the, the clinician and patient, um, encounter? Right? Um, how can we separate. What disease is from illness, right? And that Art Declinement very famously in 1988, made then the illness narratives.

[00:09:58] Bassam: He made this very sort of influential distinction, right? So disease is what the bio, bio, what biomedicine identifies as some what is happening in your body, but the illness is your own. Private, um, conceptualization of what that disease does to you, right? And so it’s much more subjective. Um, and so kind of playing on these distinctions, the medical humanities, you know, is striving.

[00:10:21] Bassam: So even for medical professionalism themselves, to have better knowledge about the history of their own profession, right? Um, and, and yeah, and, and sort of in a very interdisciplinary way, bringing together, Literature, the arts, um, you know, history, philosophy, all these other things to bear on, you know, what, what healing is and, and what diseases and what, you know.

[00:10:44] Bassam: Um, so, so that is to your first question, uh, the men humanities. And, and then, and then, so the post-colonial studies, of course is, is a as as much more, um, uh, is it much older than me? Medical humanities is having a moment now in you. The two in the two thousands, the 2010s post Colonial Studies is a, is a much older phenomenon.

[00:11:04] Bassam: You know, it emerged in the seventies, um, of course with Edward Sys classic, um, book Orientalism, right, in which he kind, he shows us how the Orient or the East is not this kind of static, um, uh, entity, but something that is produced. Um, through Western conceptualizations and representations of, of the people from the east or the people in the OR and the orient itself, right?

[00:11:33] Bassam: Was, it was an invention. Um, and so that changed the, not only literary studies, but. You know, anthropology, you know, again, site identified anthropology is one of the very, very colonial, um, disciplines, right? Um, and then so it had this very lasting impact on many different fields. And, and then it, it urged scholars from very dis different disciplines to sit with the history of empire, right?

[00:12:02] Bassam: And, and, And consider its after lives and how, um, colonization, um, especially European colonization, um, of, of different regions, um, has these afterlives or effects which continue into the present day. Right? So when we say post-colonial, we’re not seeing the colonialism is over. What we’re saying is that colonialism has certain effects which last or which are durable into the present, right?

[00:12:30] Bassam: And then, then often post colonial studies scholar have to make that distinction, right? Because often, you know, um, for instance, indigenous scholars will say, Well, how can you say, you know, if you’re living in a settler colonial society, how can you say colonialism is over? And that is exactly the point, right?

[00:12:44] Bassam: It’s not over. And we’re still living with its after lives right now. So

[00:12:49] Frederick: what a wonderful explanation of both areas that. So central to your own work, to your own me studies as you call it. Um, um, cuz yes, after all, um, it is all about that, right? Um, all of my, my superhero Latinx pop culture stuff is all me studies.

[00:13:08] Frederick: Um, so, you know, Parasitic Empires and I, I hope that’s the title, um, that continues all the way through to the book. Um, What exactly is that? ?

[00:13:24] Bassam: Yes. Uh, great question. Um, yeah, so I, I, so para setting empires and, and I’m trying to make two, um, it’s, it’s a Janus faced project, right? It’s trying to do two things at once.

[00:13:36] Bassam: And sometimes it succeeds at doing that. Sometimes it failed. We will, you know, we’ll deal with that when the dissertation, I start to revise that into the book that it will eventually become, so, so, I mean, for me, parasitic empire, so, so I’m teaching the metaphor of the parasite, right? Um, and I, and you know, the one thing, so one of the interventions.

[00:13:57] Bassam: How, um, uh, diseases were, certain diseases were racialized, right? And here I’m reusing the, the motif of the parasite to stand in for the microbial germ. Right? So, I mean, today we have a, we’re much more, um, sort of, um, and in modern medicine, or at least contemporary me biomedicine. The parasite is a very different microorganism for the bacteria.

[00:14:21] Bassam: And the bacteria is a very different organism for the, from the virus, right? And so, but these distinctions, at least in the period that I study in this book, which is starting from the 1870s onward, any kind of microbial germ was being called a parasite, right? Because, and again, the para. Was in itself, um, a much more ancient formulation.

[00:14:42] Bassam: You know, it went back to the Greeks. It, it, it referred to that, that, um, that person who eats at the table of another, right? Someone who mos off another. Um, and then what this interesting thing happened where, when, you know, this started conceptualizing biological parasites, you know, this, the social entity became a biological entity, right?

[00:15:02] Bassam: So, so one part of the project, what it’s trying to do is saying how does this, the discourse of parasitology and ology and germ theory, how it was being racialized in particular spaces in the colonies, but also in, in the metropolitan centers of the empire. So that is, so that is one thing. The other, um, intervention I’m trying to make is, again, taking the metaphor of the parasite, but then using it to make an intervention to how we understand, um, imperial geopolitics.

[00:15:34] Bassam: Right? Um, and, and this is, and, and so as you know, as an, as a, as a scholar of the anglophone, right, And this is again, a little bit of my research is coming in here, I, I was, you know, sort of a little. distraught to find that the US empire was not being discussed as much or as thoroughly within post-colonial studies as opposed to British Empire.

[00:15:57] Bassam: Right. I mean, cuz you know, because we were, we were colonized by Britain. We tend to lean towards Britain and, and France. As our lo loci of, of investigation, we don’t often look to the US empire. Right. And then, and, and, and so American studies and American studies of empire were very much divorced from British studies of empire and post-colonial studies.

[00:16:18] Bassam: And, and so the metaphor of the parasite, it allowed me to bring those together. Right. And, and what I discovered was in my research that a lot of you know, these, um, and, and what has been called the great repro shaima between the United States and the British Empire after the 1890s. You know, it was a kind of parasitic imperial formulation right within the British Empire.

[00:16:39] Bassam: A lot of American industry. Was making its profits. South Africa, for instance, all the mining that was happening there, you know, the parasitic extraction right, was being done through, um, American machines. Um, and, and the examples are endless, right? Um, I recently gave a talk at, at an mla uh, panel. On, um, the phenomenon of, um, uh, dollar princesses, right?

[00:17:05] Bassam: Um, when the landed gentry in Britain, you know, when their, where their estates were, you know, they were running outta money for their estates, they would bring this, these very, um, rich AEs from the Americ, from the United States, right? And like Downton Abby for instance, you know, that’s a very. Popular version of that, right Rick?

[00:17:23] Bassam: She represents an American Aris whose money isn’t helping the earl of Grand Thumb, for instance, to, you know, keep his E state up, right? So there was this very, you know, so there was this inter imperial interdependence between these two anglophone nations, Right. Which I’m calling a parasitic, you know, because they’re very, The Americans didn’t have their own empire at the time, right?

[00:17:42] Bassam: They only got. Insular, um, territories in 1898. So before that, they were using the British Empire’s, um, colonial territories for their own game. Right? And then conversely, the British Gentry then is making money off American capital, right? And, and so the parasite, and then I show how this. Collaboration then is being done through Anglo-American, you know, medical doctors and parasitologists, and they’re collaborating amongst themselves as well.

[00:18:12] Bassam: And, and so for me then Parasite Empires is this very kind of capacious, um, project. Right Where, you know, imperial geopolitics is playing a role, but then biomedicine is playing a role as well. And often these two things, you know, emerge or come together, you know? Um, but, but yeah. Uh, so, so I can speak more about that as well, but, you know, to your.

[00:18:33] Bassam: Question. No, that’s

[00:18:35] Frederick: amazing. So I, I know that, um, through this, this new lens, we can now go back to, well, some of our beloved authors, uh, Bra Stoker, Joseph Conrad, Jack London, even Mark Twain. Yeah. Can you give us an example of how now we. I don’t know, um, reread some of these authors, maybe teach some of these authors through a parasitic empire’s

[00:19:03] Bassam: lens for sure.

[00:19:04] Bassam: Yes. Um, and, and so actually I’ll, I’ll start with the example of Henry James, you know, and that, that’s another thing about this project where it’s like these very. Kind of difficult authors like James and Conrad then are put together with someone like Mark Twain or, or, you know, or brown Stoker and, and so I’m also trying to kind of undo this binary that we’ve made between sort of modernist and, and, and popular and, and, you know, um, and, and, and, and I think it makes sense to put these very different genres of writing together because they’re emerging.

[00:19:35] Bassam: From particular historical conjuncts. Right? And, and so I will, so I’ll start with Henry James, um, in his very, in his, you know, beloved book, The Portrait of a Lady, for instance. Um, you know, um, uh, Mme. Merrill, who’s this, you know, one of the who, she’s the very mischievous and duplicitous character. Um, she literally refers to Americans in Europe as parasite.

[00:19:58] Bassam: Crawling all over the surface, you know, . And so that’s like a very literal way of, you know, But, but then what what’s really interesting is that, you know, the touch its for in for instance, you know, so, uh, uh, Ralph touch it. Who is the, he who is this, you know, in, um, living in Britain and his father, um, touch it senior.

[00:20:17] Bassam: He has this very thriving business, um, and. Uh, centered in Britain, but he’s an Amer. But these, the touch, its, they’re Americans, right? And so this kind of brings in the capitalist sort of, or business interests that I’m trying to examine in, in the book, right Where the touch its represent capital, American capitalist interests in Britain, but then.

[00:20:40] Bassam: What’s interesting is that Ralph touch it, um, that, um, he is, he has tuberculosis, right? And, and so he is sick. And then again, the parasite again is kind of coming together in these, in terms of capitalism, but then also in terms of, um, um, bacterial or, or, or like, you know, parasitic illness. Right. Um, and, and so that is, I think that is one way, right?

[00:21:01] Bassam: Because I mean, we know Henry James is the canonical author who has written about transatlantic and, you know, uh, life and relations and, and you know how American life is different from British life. And, and so there’s this interesting, if we read this novel anew, you know, in this lens or this inter imperial lens, you know, a lot of different readings come forth, right?

[00:21:21] Bassam: So illness is there, um, capitalist extraction is there. . Um, so that’s one example. Um, another very, and, and then so, so that is from a very, you know, modernist, high realist novel. But then even if we read something like, um, Mark Twain’s unfinished book, um, it was called 3000 Years Among the Microbes, And it was pub, it was, well it left, it was left unpublished and incomplete in 1905.

[00:21:47] Bassam: That’s when he wrote it. Um, but it’s, is really. It’s, it’s so different from Henry James and it’s, it’s not a real, it’s actually an, um, an allegory and a science fiction allegory at that, where this guy is transformed into a microbe, into a cholera bas by, by, um, a sourcer. And, and then, uh, so, and he becomes a cholera.

[00:22:10] Bassam: Um, Bas in the body of a Hungarian Jewish immigrant to the United States, which is interest. So, which is, again, there was, you know, there were lots of cholera epidemics that were happening in New York, which were associated with Jewish immigrants. Um, and, and so that’s, that’s an interesting part, right? So again, cholera, the parasitic germ is there, but what’s very interesting is that even within the body of this, of this Jewish, um, Immigrant, Um, the, the, um, the narrator who is the, the cholera germ, he na, he, um, allegorize as certain parts of his body as the United States and certain parts as Britain.

[00:22:49] Bassam: Right? And then he kind of himself makes this sort of internal migration. From the stomach, which is the United States to Britain, which is another part of the body, right? . And, and then he also talks about, um, dollar princesses. And he talks about how, you know, with some indignation about, Oh, these American women who marry off, who get married to these British lords, they forget their national identity, and then they forget their American accent, , you know, And, and so there’s again, you know, this confluence of, of, um, American British relations, but within, within this, um, the, the symbolism of the germ and the parasite.

[00:23:25] Bassam: Right. So yeah, those are some examples. Like I can talk about Conrad and Stoker as well, which might be more familiar to , but, but yes, uh, thank you for that question. Well, it’s just

[00:23:36] Frederick: quickly, So how does, is, is. What is Dracula?

[00:23:42] Bassam: Very, Yes. Um, good question. So, so with Dracula actually, and, and that’s when I, Dracula was the first text to which I actually became interested in these turn of the century or like late Victorian texts doing this kind of, because in, in Dracula, We have this Texan character, Quincy Morris.

[00:24:00] Bassam: Right. Um, and so, you know, speaking, speaking from UT Austin, you know, um, so, and, and, and Stoker was very, very, um, um, preoccupied with the rising power of. The US right? Within, uh, Britain’s imperial world. And, and so Quincy Morris, you know, and so when Dracula, when the vampire comes to Britain, there’s this whole team of, of, you know, um, characters who are, who, uh, go out to hunt him down, right?

[00:24:29] Bassam: So there’s um, that, um, I believe that I, I’m, um, Van Helsing, right. So, so I believe he’s Dutch, right? So he’s, But then there’s also, and then the British characters, right? And then there is the, the fourth of the fifth is Quincy Morris, who’s this American, um, Frontiersman who is also right. And so for, in that, so what I’m, and then other scholars have already shown this, right?

[00:24:53] Bassam: And Franco Medi has this really great reading right of, of, um, the fact that it Dracula himself was not just a threat. To, it was actually Quincy Morris because in the end, not only does Dracula die, Quincy Morris dies as well trying to save Britain from the invasion that Dracula represents. So what MedDi is saying is that, you know, with Dracula, the American threat to British interests is also extinguished, right?

[00:25:20] Bassam: And, and so I’m trying to make a, a similar argument here, but in, but, but situating Dracula, Within like the yellow fever epidemic and the bubonic plague epidemics, which are happening both in the United States and the British Empire at the time. And I’m trying to show that, um, That, that, uh, the inclusion of Quincy Morris within this narrative shows how British and American, you know, you know, physicians, but then also diplomats were working together to protect their countries from these racialized diseases coming from Asia and, and from the Caribbean in other places, which is really what’s really interesting about Dracula is that in the end, Dracula is killed by two.

[00:26:04] Bassam: So one is, um, uh, which the main character, the lawyer, I’m blanking on his name. Um, he uses, um, a, a weapon, a cooky knife, which is a knife that’s, um, the sea regiments in the British Indian Army use. And then the second weapon is actually Quincy Morris’ Bowie knife from, you know, And so there’s this really beautiful symbolism, right, of the British Indian knife and then the Bowie knife, whereas do two kinds of Indian knives, you could say, which are then instrumental in, in a killing Dracula.

[00:26:38] Bassam: Right? And, and so the knives I think for me was this really interesting inter imperial tableau, right? Of, and how that then helps kill the parasite, which is, you know, presenting a danger to.

[00:26:50] Frederick: My goodness. Okay, well now I have to go back and reread Dracula. Um, you know, Baam, I’m looking around and I see, uh, my antibacterial wipes, disinfectant wipes.

[00:27:03] Frederick: Um, I have sanitizer gel that claims to kill germs and bacteria. Um, we’ve been living in this Covid pandemic now for two plus. Years Where, how are you seeing these metaphors, this, this language of sanitizer, uh, versus invader, parasitic germ in today’s world, um, in, you know, everyday, in our everyday lives.

[00:27:39] Bassam: Yeah. No, and that’s, that is the million dollar question, right? And my own, And often when I tell people about my project, they’re like, Oh, well, did you start writing this after Covid or before? And I was like, No, This was very much a, you know, I’d already written my chapter on leprosy before, and, and then Covid happened, and it sort of, you know, sort of, it made my project more timely, um, for better or for worse.

[00:28:02] Bassam: Um, you know, and then like, you know, uh, and this has been a problem. I mean, well, you know, a generative problem for other scholars like Angel zk who came out with Epidemic Empire, which is very much a cousin book for parasitic empires. She had to revise her entire preface, you know, when, when Covid happened, right?

[00:28:19] Bassam: And, and so she had to very much sort of situate her own scholarship within this larger context of, of, you know, disease and racialization. And so for me, it, it’s very, Still, I mean, again, with Monkey Ps, emerging , you know, and that’s another thing that’s now on my radar. Um, and we’re, we’re noticing a very similar pathologization of that as as, as a kind of gay infectious disease, you know, and people are noticing, you know, and making that connection, Oh, well this was, you know, sort of emerging from, you know, like gay sauna as in Madrid or whatever.

[00:28:48] Bassam: Um, and, and so I, I think for me, these, you know, constant eruptions of academics, I think it’s. Behooves us to continue to question, you know, how time and again these diseases are sort of, um, being conflated or are being used to demonize other com, uh, communities, right? To be it sexual minorities, racial minorities, what have you.

[00:29:12] Bassam: When, when I did, you know, my job talk at UT Austin, I actually started with an image, which was sort of, um, this heinous image, um, from the Spanish newspaper, which depicted Black South Africans as you know, sort of carriers of Covid, you know, after Omicron was identified. And it was this really, these caricature of, of these, you know, these microbes on, on a ship, coming to the European Union.

[00:29:36] Bassam: and then so, you know, we, we continue to see, you know, I mean, it is almost as if we never learned anything from, you know, the HIV’s epidemic or, or the Ebola epidemic or, you know, of kind of this constant racialization. Um, you know, and, and, and, and so while I am, you know, I, I’m. And what Parasiting empires, you know, it is, it continues to be, um, uh, um, sort of, uh, dedicated to this project of questioning, um, racialization.

[00:30:07] Bassam: But I also I think want to do something, you know, More interesting, which is also that it is also the parasite is also this really interesting, um, confluence of Anglo-American or Anglosaxon, sort of solidarities. Right? Um, and, and that, and, and, you know, we had now finally we’re beginning to see public scholarship.

[00:30:29] Bassam: So, you know, um, Daniel Mwar is how to Hide an Empire, which, you know, everyone who like, you know, I mean, of course American Empire is. An established field in the academy. But then when you look at the popular imagination, like Americans often don’t know the history of their own empire. Right? Um, or at least they’re overseas empire and, and so I think what Prise allows me to do is then also see, well it was not just, you know, kind of, um, White people, pathologizing, you know, you know, Asians and black people as, as carriers.

[00:30:59] Bassam: But then what’s interesting is that when you look at British and American Internality, the British are also looking at the American as a kind of parasitic threat, right? And, and so I think that allows me to kind of, um, resist the essentialism, right? Of kind of always saying, Oh, well, you know, we, you know, the brown people or the black people are always the parasites.

[00:31:19] Bassam: You know, sometimes you can even reverse that and say, well, It was actually, you know, the European conquerors who brought all of these novel diseases to the North American continent. Right. Which led to the decimation of indigenous peoples. Um, and, and, and so, yeah, so I mean, again, it’s, you know, in the, in this day and age, Yes.

[00:31:38] Bassam: The, the point of the project is very much to continue to question racialization. But then also just to imagine new ways of doing that. Right. And, and I think that I’m doing through this, um, the conceptualization of, of US and British interests and, and, um, relations.

[00:31:55] Frederick: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Um, of course, you know, dovetailing with, you know, some of the scholarship, but also just our own responses and reactions to the way.

[00:32:05] Frederick: You know, this flood of zombie invaders and how, you know, that’s, um, been classed or raced or gendered or, or, you know, um, kind of put within a, you know, a parasitic kind of fear of. Anything, uh, gender, queer, et cetera. Let me ask you though, in, in very much, a big part of your journey as a scholar, as a thinker, as a critical maker, is your.

[00:32:38] Frederick: Poetry, your essays. Um, I’m thinking of uninvited guests just given our theme right now and how to be a parasite. Um, how does this weave into and kind of where, where is this? And as a part of the journey of Baam Sadiki,

[00:32:57] Bassam: Yes. Um, right. Yeah, I, I definitely think that my sort of creative, um, uh, pursuits very much their, you know, um, parasitic whip, my critical pursuits.

[00:33:10] Bassam: They’re, they’re very symbiotic. They’re very, you know, you know, when I’m, I’m drawing on the philosopher, Michelle Se, and his book The Parasite, I’m drawing on him for both my critical, like on the book project on Paris Empires, but then also this memoir and essays that I’m working on, of which, How to be a parasite and uninvited guests are apart.

[00:33:29] Bassam: Right. And, and, and so I think what I’m trying to do then is sort of taking, um, of, of course, you know, sort of taking the parasite and, and you know, sort of engaging with it in different ways. Um, but then, you know, I think for me, Um, the creative or the non, the creative non-fiction essays, again, of, of, of course they’re bringing in more of my own personal life, you know, and, and I’m trying to do a kind of auto theory there.

[00:33:59] Bassam: You know, I’ve been inspired by. Scholars such as, you know, Seia Hartman, you know, who’ve kind of brought in their own personal experiences. Right? But then they’re also doing theory with it, right? And doing a kind of critical ation, um, and is the term that she uses. And, and I think in those ways, um, you know, sort of the notion of the parasite is this very capacious.

[00:34:23] Bassam: Um, notion that then allows me to do this, these creative things, but then also this critical thing, these, you know, for my tenure book . So, um, so yeah, but in that sense, you know, and people, you know, if, if both of these are published, people who read them one after the other or together, they will notice that there are synergies and similarities.

[00:34:45] Bassam: You know, and there’s a reason why I am writing these two books together. Um, So, yes. I mean, that, that’s one, that’s a short answer to your question. Um, yes. I, I, I, I, I, I, I just think that, I mean, Of course the, the creative non-fiction essay as a form, right? It’s allowing me to do something with my own personal experiences that, you know, But again, I would also , you know, say, well, you know, a lot of, you know, scholars are also bringing in their personal lives and their critical work.

[00:35:13] Bassam: So it’s, it’s a very, um, Spurious distinction at the end of the day. Um, but, but yes, I mean, I mean, for now, and this is where I am, you know, kind of mm-hmm. drawing, you know, a healthy boundary between the two projects, but then also keeping note of the ways in which they’re speaking to one another.

[00:35:33] Frederick: My goodness, Bassam, what a, what a journey.

[00:35:35] Frederick: What an origin story. Um, we have yet to see the kind of big resolutions and epiphanies, um, although I know you’ve had many along the way, but I’m, I, I just wanna end by saying, um, well you are very much. A welcome and invited guest, and I thank you Bassam for sharing your journey with us today.

[00:36:03] Bassam: Thank you so much, Fred.

[00:36:04] Bassam: It was, It was a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you.

[00:36:08] Into the Colaverse is produced by the University of Texas at Austin’s College of Liberal Arts Sound Engineering by the Liberal Arts Instructional Technology Services. You can find Into the Colaverse podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. Thanks for listening and see you next time.