Mid-Month Mini Episode: Breaking the Silence & Stigma of Imposter Syndrome

2021-12-14_Cancer-Uncovered-Imposter-syndrome
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[00:00:00] Intro: We are a resource for learners, including every member of the live strong cancer institutes on track educational pipeline from middle school to residency, we are a growing collection of interviews, talks and experiences, the uncover, the myths and the uncertainties of cancer and careers in cancer in order to empower and inspire generations of thinkers and leaders.

This is Cancer Uncovered. An education and empowerment podcast by the live strong cancer institutes.

[00:00:51] Ginger Okoro: This is Ginger Okoro with the live strong cancer institutes, an emerging cancer center at the university of Texas at Austin. Medical school while it may have been a wow. Since I joined you in a mini capacity, our department has definitely been ever present on a podcast platform with full podcasts all year long, click back and enjoy all the episodes from the year.

Here we are December 20, 21, hard to believe. So, um, as you’re getting forward to the holiday season, Planning your new year, looking forward to a new beginning of sorts. Do you ever feel like you’re sort of free falling, not sure where you’ll land or maybe you have the feeling of forever being in progress that sensibility resonates with me.

This elusive fear that follows you wherever you go, where you question your ability. The things you say, your movements, your very intellect and regularly examine. And re-examine yourself against your fellow classmates, perhaps your colleagues, your siblings, those in position of power, you might even shrink back and say, Hmm, I can’t really imagine myself there.

Or maybe I don’t need to think so highly of myself. Well today, we’re going to talk about that. Very subject, the topic of imposter syndrome. You’re going to hear from Bethany Windler and Rachel Cohen, Ford, both our leadership directors in the office of the Dean of students leadership and ethics Institute.

They’re going to unpack how we wrestle with imposter syndrome and contemplate ways to navigate it. Are you a current UT? Go ahead and click over to the UT leadership, education and development and the office of the Dean of students where you’ll find helpful informational workshops, leadership programs, and other resources and programs that will equip you as a leader and hone those unique talents that you have.

Now let’s hear from Bethany and Ray.

[00:03:14] Bethany Wendler: I’m glad everyone is tuned into to listen to us. Talk about imposter syndrome today. I’ll introduce myself and then Rachel can introduce herself and then we’ll just kind of dig into some stuff. I am Bethany Welner. I am the associate director for Texas leadership, education and development, or Texas lead at UT.

[00:03:35] Rachel Cohen-Ford: I am Rachel Cohen, Ford, and I am the assistant director for Texas lead at UT. Austin. And I am so excited to be here today on this very exciting pod.

[00:03:44] Bethany Wendler: So myself and my amazing colleague, Rachel are going to walk you through some of the things that we think will be helpful students and folks navigating the world that will just really kind of embolden you and give you some skills to navigate this world of imposter syndrome. So we love talking about imposter syndrome, right?

[00:04:03] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Oh, yeah. You know, it’s that fun thing that I definitely felt this morning when I was like, oh, am I actually here talking about imposter syndrome on a podcast and experiencing imposter? Um,

[00:04:15] Bethany Wendler: It’s like, am I qualified to do this? I’ve never done this before. Yes, I can do this. So I think what we’ve really given an example of is it, imposter syndrome is something that we feel all the time, but to really kind of lay some sort of foundations for. How we’re going to talk about imposter syndrome. I think it’s important to really start with, let’s just like a shared definition.

It’s going to kind of ground the rest of our conversation, moving forward, our idea. So our approach to imposter syndrome, sometimes it’s referred to as perceived fraudulent. So if you’ve heard that. Phrase before it’s essentially the same thing, but really this idea of imposter syndrome involves feelings of self doubt, sort of personal incompetence that persist really decide the fact that you’re probably are educated enough to do what you’re doing and have experience.

Every bit of feedback I get is I’m going to hold on to that a whole lot. So that is really our framing for feedback, right. Rachel, that jives with you.

[00:05:09] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Yeah, absolutely it does. And you know, I appreciated definition, but I learned much better through examples. So I have come up with a fun game of, you. may have experienced imposter syndrome, if, and so I know I’m an Alyssa, I love a game. I love it. I’m going to play. I play lovely. Yeah, absolutely. And this one, I do want to frame that these might be things that you’ve experienced once or twice.

You might think these things all the time, it may be something totally different, but these are some of the most common ways that people have been known to experience imposter syndrome. So let’s play my game. You may have experienced imposter syndrome. If you credit luck or chance instead of your own hard work for the reason why you accomplished something.

You are worried that everyone around you will soon discover that you aren’t as talented or as smart as you appear to be. You care a lot, maybe too much about your work and can’t stop or arrest because you’re worried that it might cause everything to fall apart immediately. Constructive feedback, even when given well can cause you to think about it for that.

For weeks and really just sort of be on your mind way longer than it should be. If you’re applying for a job, you might meet all the qualifications, but one or two small things and think to yourself that you weren’t qualified enough for it. And that it’s way above your skillset and cause yourself to not apply.

You worry that everyone around you is somehow much more skilled at what they’re doing and that you’ll never be able to reach their level. All right, bye.

[00:06:33] Bethany Wendler: Oh, my gosh, I just, wow. I’ve never really thought about all of those things together in a list, but I have definitely experienced. I think all of those, some of them at the same time, I think we’ve really kind of pointed out like imposter syndrome shows up a lot. It shows up in professional spaces. It shows up in personal spaces.

I definitely somebody who has. Compare myself to my friend groups. These people are phenomenal. Why am I here? Like, why are they hanging out with me? It’s almost omnipresent. Like air, what do I do? So we have come up with a couple strategies that I think are really helpful, can really make an impact. But I do recognize that not all of these strategies are going to work for everybody at the same time.

The first strategy is learning how to build the confidence of breaking the silence. Imposter syndrome is something that I can say with confidence that almost everyone around you is experiencing at the same time, but we feeling we’re all doing this alone. Being brave enough to say, I feel like I don’t belong here.

Does anybody else feel this way? I think it’s amazing when we are brave enough to show our vulnerability and stuff.

[00:07:38] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Absolutely. I can definitely remember in a group one time that we all just had this weird meeting where everyone was sort of tense and someone just kind of was like, Okay. Do we feel like we all deserve to be here? Like, know what we’re doing? Cause we had all just been recently elected into these positions and everybody just let out this exhale of like, oh my gosh, I’m not alone.

Everybody else has this worry that we aren’t really talented enough to be here. But we had all been doing this for a minute and had all been voted into these positions. So we were able to build each other up. Honestly, it turned into compliments for like 15 minutes. It felt very nice. And then we be done, but it really was that great bonding moment of breaking the silence and saying, Hey, I experienced this too.

And everybody in the room had that moment of epiphany of like, yes. Yes. I’m not alone.

[00:08:28] Bethany Wendler: So yeah, break that silence. It’s okay. No one wants to carry this burden alone. So don’t Rachel. You have a way to apply our second strategy, which is separating the fact from feelings. Did you want to talk about that strategy?

[00:08:41] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Essentially when you’re in that moment of feeling okay. I don’t know if I’m really supposed to be here. A lot of the times, those are just your sort of dark feelings, the bad voice in your head. So how do you separate that from what’s actually happening? Something that I really suggest doing is listing ways that you know, that you’re doing well.

And this is my biggest challenge to you is to think about the ways in which you’re doing. Something, well that you may be experiencing imposter syndrome around when I was in college, I had a mentor suggested I write a list of ways that you’re actually doing things well, tangible ways. You know, you have been doing this thing for a certain amount of time.

You were elected into the position. You have a good grade, you have gotten a compliment from someone about your work, whatever those things are, list them out. I do want you to physically write them out or type them out, whatever it is you just need to have. Something that you can read in front of you instead of just visualizing it in your head, because this is really the motivation to get you through the hurdle of imposter syndrome in this moment.

And something to remind yourself, maybe make a list of your phone and come back to it. If you’re ever feeling that self doubt again, about the same thing and say, oh, you know what? I actually know that I’m doing well in this because of these reasons.

[00:09:50] Bethany Wendler: Another strategy, this idea of developing a new script as you’re separating fact from fiction or fact from fraud, start to notice the thoughts that run through your head when you were thinking about those fraudulent statements. If you’re in a group meeting and you think to yourself, wow, there are so many brilliant people in here.

I’m not prepared to be in this space. Like. Kind of identify when you start to have those moments and flip it. Right. Wow. There’s a lot of brilliant people in this room. Great. I’m going to learn a lot, um, and be excited about being in those spaces because you deserve to be there just as much as they do.

So if you can just rewrite that narrative in your head as you’re kind of starting to identify the facts and what is the opposite side of that? I think that’s also another great strategy to combat those feelings as they emerge. I think also developing a healthy response to failure and mistake making is absolutely critical.

I’ve learned to embrace making mistakes. I thought that it was the clear and true sign that I was not good enough to be there, but I think back on those mistakes that I’ve made, I’m like, man, I learned a lot of what to do, right. What not to do, how to be more effective in my role. And it’s allowed me to be a whole lot more comfortable with making mistakes.

Mistakes come with learning and learning is a really great place to be in. Does everyone’s a lifelong learner. So if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not learning anything. And that just makes you more super cool in office.

[00:11:18] Rachel Cohen-Ford: And I always remind myself to in that moment, I think it’s really scary whenever we do make a mistake or mess up something. I always think back it’s that developing a new script of okay. If I’m the person who has, you know, who’s receiving the mistake, right? Like I’m on the opposite end. It’s almost always not a big deal.

It’s like, oh yeah, no, that’s okay. Let’s move forward. But if you’re the person making the mistake, it’s terrifying. So I think reminding yourself it’s okay. Everybody makes.

[00:11:44] Bethany Wendler: When we think people are giving us feedback, like, oh, they’re being critical. They must not like overdoing, but feedback from people means. The last strategy that I want to mention is visceral rewarding yourself. So acknowledging there is a balance there of leaning into the mistakes that you make and then celebrating when you’ve done something really well, it can be big or small treating yourself, rewarding yourself for those things that you’ve done well gives you that bit of energy booster, take on the next challenge and work through the new problem and continue to build the shield of armor of.

The reality that you really are great, everyone experiences imposter syndrome. But the fact is that if we can build each other up and support each other and learn to support ourselves, we can lean into that excellence that we have and how much better. But we all be as leaders because of that.

[00:12:36] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Yes. And I think that people often forget that their own talents are unique to them. So it’s really important to celebrate those moments in which you do the thing that you are uniquely talented to do. You’re going to be able to do things that. I would never be able to do and vice versa, and we can celebrate ourselves and each other and help each other feel successful in these spaces.

It’s hard to feel that way.

[00:13:01] Bethany Wendler: Yeah.

[00:13:02] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Well, I feel awesome. Having gotten to talk about imposter syndrome with you today and hope that for our folks that are listening, that you’ve understood what imposter syndrome is. You have these strategies now to get over those really difficult moments in which you do feel the self doubt or the imposter syndrome creep in.

[00:13:19] Bethany Wendler: I think that Rachel and I, through our experiences recognize that these are really great strategies that even in small and large ways can make a big impact. I enjoy it so well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, you can feel good about imposter syndrome, but I think we’ve done a great job, so

[00:13:38] Rachel Cohen-Ford: Me too. Let’s go celebrate.

[00:13:39] Bethany Wendler: yeah, I think we should leave it there.

[00:13:47] Ginger Okoro: And now what still free falling. How about looking at the positive side? You’re out. You have a pair of shoe, the weather’s clear. And although your landing may hurt a bit, you have some strategies from Rachel and from Bethany to overcome the fear and allow yourself to celebrate the victories, the things that you are doing well, don’t forget, make sure that you write things down, that you look within yourself and see the positive things that you are doing and work up from.

Keep on building. It’s a new year folks. It’s on the horizon. I’m so glad that we could hear from Bethany and from Rachel, our guests podcasters today who left us equipped with the knowledge true address, the imposter syndrome. We are all likely feeling at some point in our life and our career that you enjoy this mini podcast.

Please tell a friend. And be sure to subscribe via your favorite podcast platform for questions about this episode or the live strong cancer institutes, please email live strong cancer institutes@dellmedthatyoutexas.edu. You can also follow our chair and director Dr. Gill Eckhardt on Twitter at S as in Sam.

Gail, G A I L L E C K H A R D T. This is Ginger Okoro asking you to take another, listen to the year of podcasts as you finish out your 2021. Thank you as always for your ongoing support of cancer.