Episode 26: Health Science Career Mentorship – A Practical Discussion with a Mentor and Mentee

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This is cancer. An education and empowerment podcast by the live strong Cancer Institutes.

Welcome

[00:00:45] Kristen Wynn: back. This is Kristin Wynn bringing you this month’s episode of Cancer Uncovered. In today’s episode, we take you to a conversation we had with our summer undergraduate research. All of whom were conducting 10 weeks of cancer research [00:01:00] alongside UT Austin professors and research scientists just a few months ago.

I am super excited to have Dr. Gail Eckhart make her debut on the show as she and Dr. Ana Ka Paso discuss their dynamic as colleagues. Dr. Eckhart has mentored Dr. Capasso for about eight years. They are two women with very different backgrounds that are able to support one another in their work here at the Live Strong Cancer Institutes.

We have talked about the concept of mentorship here on the show before, but in this episode you will hear questions from our undergraduate fellows to these two experts about the importance of mentorship in their careers, what a strong mentor relationship looks like, and super practical advice about how to think about finding a mentor and your next steps in career and education planning as we begin this conversation.

I definitely forgot to hit record, so you’ll hear Gail and Annana mention that they are saying hello again. Sorry ladies. Here we go.[00:02:00]

[00:02:02] S. Gail Eckhardt: Okay, so hi everyone again. . I’m Gail. And so I came here about five and a half years ago to head up the Department of Oncology and to start the Withdrawal Cancer Institutes. And so, so I actually have been, I’ve mentored for a long time and um, I am one of those people where once you have met, Um, you can forever send me an email at some point and ask a question like forever mentorship.

But actually Anna I met in 2014. 14 and uh, she was in Colorado when I was there heading up a developmental therapeutics lab. And so we’ve actually been together for now eight years. Yep. And so back then she started as a really, a graduate student. Mm-hmm. and. One of my first choices when I [00:03:00] got here was to get her, recruit her into her first faculty position.

Um, here. So there you. Cool.

[00:03:08] Anna Capasso: So, hi everyone. Monica Paso. As I told you guys before, I’m one of the gastrointestinal medical oncologists. And I’m basically a clinician scientist, so I’m an md. I did all my training back in Italy. In Italy. We don’t have a pH md PhD program. It’s separate. So I finished my sort of like MDs are the six series, and I did my fellowship in medical oncology.

During that time I did focus primarily on gastrointestinal cancer and colorectal cancer. And then toward the end of my fellowship, which is five years, I actually shared with my, uh, professor back in Italy that I really wanted to do, uh, research, uh, more like basic research. And I wasn’t interest, I was interested in going into, uh, you know, PhD.

Program. And so I did actually apply for that back in Italy, but he allowed me to meet with Dr. Eckford. And as she mentioned before, yes, I met her at actually one of the ESMO that is European Society of [00:04:00] uh, Clinical Oncology back in Amsterdam. I had a dinner with her and then she was like, Yeah, Stuffle.

Yes. Oh my goodness. That’s really . It was like amazing, uh, food. And then like, you know, while my professor actually was choking almost on his food and actually offered me to join her in her lab in Denver. So I moved to Denver in 2014. Uh, and I’ve never left because I found, you know what I can define best mentor ever.

And I can say that also because Dr. Kin was just awarded with a mentorship award, which. Pretty big deal from the American Society of Clinical Oncology. Couple weeks ago at asco. Um, and basically her mentees, which she has like probably over fifth at this point, we all together applied for that mentorship.

Yeah, Applied. All that’s true. Yes. And it was great because it was not all the. Clinicians are the PhDs, but also people that work like in an admin position like Kristen. And she’s been mentoring like, [00:05:00] I don’t know how she does it, but a lot of people. And so we were able to put in the application and she was awarded this year.

So I think round applause. It’s a really big, and its a lot of the work that she was mentioning before. I can tell you that being a mentor is very important and for a mentee, it’s really important to have somebody that knows what they’re doing. That can really give you like good advices. So like one of, I, I share this with everybody.

One of the reason why I’m here, it’s because of course of guilt, because she did a great job with me and I think she was able to see me things that I didn’t even saw in myself and was able to, you know, like basically train me throughout the years and allow me to grow and give me opportunities that I would’ve not found found elsewhere.

So I’m very happy to be here today that I can share that with you guys. . So cool.

[00:05:50] Kristen Wynn: Cool. Well, I’m gonna jump into these questions. Um, so fire away. Awesome. You know, we read a lot of things like find a mentor, go find a mentor. How,

[00:05:59] Anna Capasso: [00:06:00] how do you find a mentor? What would, what

[00:06:02] S. Gail Eckhardt: advice would you have? The first part of the answer really is you need to find your passion first.

Right? So you have to, and you can actually have a mentor help. Find that, but more than anything, initially sort of think about what are you passionate about, because you do wanna, some, in some respects, match your passion with, with a mentor that sort of is in this similar area. It doesn’t have to be exactly in the same area.

And so once you’ve sort of scanned yourself for what you’re really interested in, then my view is you have to cast the net widely for mentorship. So don’t limit yourself. You’re a woman. It doesn’t have to be a. If you’re a guy, it doesn’t have to be a guy. Vice versa, those different things. They don’t have to look or be like you necessarily.

You know, I, I think what we hope, um, in terms of female mentorship is that we diversify the, the pool of mentors. Cuz it is like, I didn’t [00:07:00] really have a female mentors, but I think the other thing to think about is, is to go talk to people because you have to have sort of that chemistry if it’s someone. Is gonna be very critical and not promote you.

That’s not a good mentorship relationship. That may be fine for checking in and critically analyzing what you’re doing, but a mentor does need to be positive. So I think it’s fine to like just make appointments with people and check in, and if that chemistry works, then the next thing is that mentor has to be access.

So it, it’s a flip thing. So you need to find someone that’s accessible to you, because if you have to set up appointments 10 years in advance and you can’t access them, that’s not a good mentor. Again, that could be a check in every once in a while, person. And then I always say on the mentor side, you [00:08:00] have to be accessible to a mentee that you take.

And I don’t know about how you went looking for

[00:08:06] Anna Capasso: mentors. Yeah. Well, so I had like my experience before with some mentors back in Italy. And as Gil said, you know, they were more like check-ins rather than really mentors. They were not as available and they were not as friendly, which I understand it’s probably also personality.

And so sometimes you have to match and you know, you have to have that empathy, right. That we try to find with, you know, our friends, our, you know, like sometimes people even like their families, but for whatever reason they, they don’t, there’s not that chemistry. So I think that’s, Important. And so as soon as I met Gil, just the way she presented, she was like so smiley and colorful and she was talking.

She really, the thing that I adore about her older than that we meet, the first thing she asked me, How are you doing? Are you happy? Who asks you that? Like, no money. She does. Yeah. So that’s one of the, you know, like the things that I was like, Oh my goodness, yes, I really wanna secure and stick around. So the other thing that she mentioned, she’s available at all times really.

Um, we have in our, our regular check-ins. [00:09:00] Um, she’s really committed to me to really mentally, um, she puts me ahead of any other thing that like, you know, she’s has a pretty busy schedule. Uh, and I don’t know that, but I never, you know, really know how busy it is. But she finds the time always sync with me or like if I have sort of like emergency, I busy

Yeah. And I go busy. Um, so like, she’s there, she’s always pretty, pretty available, which is really nice. And so like being available, accessible. And also the other thing. As I said, you know, really that like, sort of like building this relationship is not only about what I do, you know, for my work, but also knowing a little bit more about my personal life, being supportive of me as a person.

You know, like I’m a young faculty, faculty, but I’m a woman and I wanted to become a mom as well. And so I had to, I had, I had, I struggled a little bit to become a mom and she was always there in support of me and, you know, asking how you doing? But like, you know, and it doesn’t have to always be personal, but it’s nice to know there’s somebody that it.

Really like engaging with you and [00:10:00] like willing to know that you are happy. You know, not only when you’re like, you know, for your job, but also in personal life. Cuz those things actually go together, right? So I come to work and I’m happy, I know that I am in a good place, I’m in a healthy place. I know that there’s people that care about me as a person.

Like I’m a, first of all. And then of course, you know, making sure that I do my job and I do it well. So that’s, I think it’s really, really important, but in what you can accomplish and be successful. So I think, you know, I. Certainly say that’s a lot of work, but you know that there’s something behind it that is built to support you and get there.

[00:10:33] S. Gail Eckhardt: Wanted to go back cuz another question is always, what’s number one also, what is the mentor gonna ask you? Okay. And a common thing that I ask besides sort of, you know, personal question. I mean, I tend to ask personal questions at some point when people wanna open up. , I often say in five years, you know, where do you wanna be?

Now if people are really young like you guys are, [00:11:00] then that’s really the question, which is, where do you wanna be in five years? You know? Um, if someone’s heading into the job market, then I say, What is your dream job? Because the reason it’s important to articulate that is that your mentor then backtracks.

Like if you, you say X, Y, or Z, this is where I see myself in five years. It’s my job to help navigate you there as best as possible. And so that’s a very important question that people will ask hopefully, because that’s really what we’re trying to do is to get you where you want to be. And you may not be thinking that far ahead, but just jump a few years ahead cuz that’s really, it’s the pathway that the mentor wants to help you go down, not just are you good now, but where do you wanna be?

We’re the people that need to like help push you. The path that you wanna be in. The tools to be a good mentee is often being organized. So again, going back to this question, I think sometimes people [00:12:00] feel that they ask too much of their mentors if they have a bunch of stuff that they wanna go over. But in fact, we love that Anna does that.

One of my very successful other facul is Chris Lou in Colorado. Um, both of them come with lists and it’s organized. This is what I wanna know, this is what I’ve done, you know, this is what I need help with. So just keep in mind that we wanna see that like it’s not, it’s not, um, considered poor form to come in with your own list and your own expectations of what that relationship should look like.

Helped me mentor Anna, was that she, she knew what her passion. And as an undergrad, you’re early on in that, but for sure you’re taking courses that you really like and you have ones that you really don’t like. You have some that you have to take just to get where you want to go, , but during that period, you should be searching yourself for those [00:13:00] passions.

And one of the reasons that we offered this, the search program, is to at least within one element of that, let people see if that’s a passion that they have. So that we can help nurture that as they, you know, go through school.

[00:13:15] Anna Capasso: I, yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. Those were a long time ago. I know.

Separate. No, I mean, like, they were a while back for me too, but I have to be honest, I was pretty, I already knew what I wanted to do. Like, well, right in high school. Um, probably because I assured this with a lot of people might, My dad is in academia too, so like he’s. Um, he actually retired just recently, but yeah, he was in academia.

He was, he actually is a nephrologist, so he does kidney diseases, so really different respect to oncology. But I could see him, you know, being so involved and has a great passion for his job until now. Like he’s 72, so it works. Um, but you know, like I, I saw him, you know, like when I, when I was a kid, like he was never home.

He was always working. Uh, he was doing basic research and clinic clinical research and he’s a [00:14:00] clinician as well. So I, I was very lucky cuz I, I saw that, but I had this passion for medicine really. I had my grandma, you know, she had like, her illness and stuff like that, and my dad would train me, you know, do an intermuscular injection with her and she was like, Yeah, just go on, do it.

I was eight years old. I, I’m like, What, who does that? So like, but I was involved, I was interested in medicine, I wanted to know more. And so when I went to high school, I knew that I wanted to go to medical school. And even before getting to medical school there, you know, on college is a pretty disciplined respect to what, you know, was known before.

And I start learning a little bit more about it. And of course like everybody, we have like, you know, family unfortunate experience of people with cancer. And so I got really, really more interested in starting do some research. And I was like, Yeah, that’s exactly what I wanna do. And then I saw a movie of Pat Adams and, you know, seeing, you know, like differences in.

Patients care and what you can do and you know, just bring a smile. And I was like, this is exactly me. That’s what I wanna be. I wanna be able to take care of patients and remind them that, you know, As [00:15:00] much as stuff as it is, and cancer is terrible, you know, you can still find kindness and you know, like somebody that can take care of you and remember that you’re a person, right?

So that’s, that was my pathway and I feel like I’ve, I’ve been choosing hopefully, the right pathway, but I’m, I’m happy. I, I feel very. But I feel like it’s a privilege for me to take care of cancer patients. And so, um, I, I think I’ve

[00:15:21] S. Gail Eckhardt: been pretty, So what I would say, so Anna is a good example of someone that was able to sort of take that passion, you know, at an early time and keep it on.

So I’ll just say there’s other people like me. Okay. So I was a wild child , um, I went to Stephen F. Austin State Univers. I was artistic, so I, my major in, in, you know, in the university was, um, art and psych psychology. Long story short is that I, it took me a while to find that passion. I went out to California and majored in chemistry at [00:16:00] Berkeley.

I mean, like, I was all over the place. Okay. and, um, when I was at Berkeley, then I was in a pre-med class and I, um, I realized that they were very straight, you know, and narrow people. And I was coming from art and sculpture and all this other stuff, and I realized, Hey, you know what? I wanna be, I wanna represent this kind of person that I am in medicine, so I’m, I’m not gonna give up.

Cause people just kept telling me, You’re never gonna get in. You’re mcat. You’re terrible. And um, and I said, No, I’m not going to. Now that I’ve seen people, I don’t want them representing all of medicine. So, so I ended up taking the mcat and so I took the MCAT out there and I remember calling one of my chemistry professors at SFA in ados.

Ido Texas and said, um, you know, I’m gonna come back and finish my last year there and, you know, apply for med school. And he [00:17:00] was very supportive. But all of my letters came from art people like, you know, things. So, you know, again, I think what I did is I just sort of followed, you know, I kept following it.

It wasn’t linear, but it ended up, you know, I listened to myself and, you know, that’s no doubt some of you’re gonna be that way. Some, some of you’re gonna. Know exactly. Some are gonna think they wanna do this thing post college and these people are gonna wanna do that and just continue to listen to that inner voice.

Yes. So good. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:36] Kristen Wynn: Um, I liked this question a lot. Uh, what differentiates a good mentee from a really great one?

[00:17:41] Anna Capasso: Well, I’ll have to answer. You don’t know, you know? Well,

[00:17:45] S. Gail Eckhardt: she’s done it. Yeah. So, uh, from a mentee standpoint, it’s knowing what you want to get out of your mentor and pursuing it. Yeah.

Um, that’s what I would say. Yeah. I don’t know what you, you know, you’ve seen your [00:18:00] side of it, so.

[00:18:00] Anna Capasso: Yeah. Well, I, you know, like I see a little bit more like being an early stage of my career. I seem like a little bit more like pri like even more junior than I am mentor mentees. So, What I would say is like a very good yes.

Being organized, willing to listen, participate, like, you know, come with questions. Yeah. I think that’s really important. Truly wanted to also like be engaged with what they’re asked to do, like projects and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. , especially in the lab people, I, I think you’re like also remembering that you wanna take.

A step at a time. You don’t have to learn everything right away. Cause it gets really confusing. I feel like sometimes people get a like, you know, not a, like, not a good example of a good mentee as far as somebody that wants to comes in, knows that they know everything and then they boom square all up and it’s a lot of money that you waste a lot of time with people with.

But the fact that you come in and. Just like what we need to learn and we need to listen and try to sort of like get the best and also having fun. I mean like we, an experience in research and I would not expect from you guys to have a project that can be published. I mean, it takes us like. [00:19:00] Ears to get like a paper, like some data published.

But I think, you know, and some people come with that attitude like, I have to get it. It has to be their first thing. I’m like, uh, It’s important for you guys. Absolutely. But take the good things about flexibility. Exactly. I can take the good experience from all of this. You know that this is a great opportunity.

You can learn so much. You can meet so many people. You can find the mentor

[00:19:20] S. Gail Eckhardt: and sort of focus. Experience. Exactly. Yeah. It’s so much of doing. Even, you know, eventually doing what you wanna do is like these little building blocks of experience, right? Some of it is, you know, very traditional educational experience.

Some of it’s getting out there and doing this kind of stuff. Some of it’s meeting with someone that you randomly saw, you know, somewhere and hearing about it and you know, reading. There’s just so many little elements that will be the building blocks of what you eventually. It’s all fun. Yeah,

[00:19:51] Anna Capasso: that’s great.

And try to collaborate with your lab and the people in your lab, and it’s not only your mentor, the person that leads the lab, but even the PhDs or postdocs that [00:20:00] you get to know during those 10 weeks, these people can mentor you like during years or they can share with you their experience and then you can hear about it and say, Oh my goodness, I would really like to be what they are doing.

So I think, you know, you can get inspiration from the people that are around you. That’s what, yeah. And I think Sure.

[00:20:17] S. Gail Eckhardt: The practical. There is a practical component to where you guys are, right? So, um, you know, I would say yes, you do need to for where you are. You need to think of what that next decision is, right?

So what are you gonna do when you graduate and, And I don’t think you need to get uptight about that as much as you need to go around and meet with various people. Let’s say it’s cancer research in general. Yeah. You need to get a sense about what a PhD is, what a postoc is, what a GRE is. That’s the exam.

You know, the medical field, or maybe you’re interested in, some people get interested in medical, right? I mean, there’s all kinds of [00:21:00] things. And so yes, there is that practical question of what do you need to accomplish right now to get to that next step? And also, like I said, listen to your voice, your inner voice, because mine.

But if you know, if you’re able to do that, I think that’s sort of where meeting people in different walks of life can really help you make that decision. Cuz there are sort of these specific metrics when you get out. So obviously everyth. Mm-hmm. . And whether that’s your passion. So I guess what advice would give, give to someone who is

[00:21:42] Anna Capasso: like, trying to figure that out in the future or now

[00:21:45] S. Gail Eckhardt: time and like how do you know whether that’s something you should mm-hmm.

Possib, so, mm-hmm. . And what longer is not something that’s gonna mm-hmm. . So, yeah. So this was one of the principles that I brought up in terms of mentoring and [00:22:00] that’s flexibility. And on the mentor side, understanding that, um, that sometimes people select things where it may. Um, play towards their best skills.

And so as a mentor, you have to be flexible and help get them into, you know, the area that is really the best match. So what I would say is that is number one, not uncommon, but two, that’s actually where a mentor can help you navigate. Um, and I understand that at this point it’s, it’s always hard, I think, as an undergrad to know, like, is it the big professor that doesn’t ever meet with anyone?

Um, I think more often it could be a TA or some, you know, someone else. Um, but you know, I think that that, um, that problem is not uncommon that people are feeling like they, they may need to [00:23:00] change or. Um, maybe they find that their skills are best applied somewhere else, but I actually think that that is a huge job of a mentor to help with that.

Um, that happens all the time. And what I hate to see is when. Um, when someone, when a mentor is not flexible, so they keep saying, Well, you need to be like, for us, it’s often you need to be a laboratory based investigator that has your own grant and you’re an independent PI and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I’m like, No, . That’s something that you need to look for in a mentor that they will understand that you may have, you know, changes, um, over there now, um, in terms of finding that balance. , you can have your mentee, mentor. Relationships are gonna change as you move along in your career. So you may have some forever, you know, that’s what you [00:24:00] hope for.

But you may have some that are gonna function mainly as in undergrad, you know, and then, , you hope they stay on, but they may not. Um, and as long as they’re helping you get to the next step, that’s okay. As you move on, people become more committed because they sort of understand what you’re doing and they’re part of it.

And I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t worry so much about the personal professional stuff because that can be very fluid and that’s fine. I mean, I think it’s actually good when you are able to have that be fairly fluid. No mentor is gonna say, Oh, I don’t wanna step over the boundary, or I don’t wanna hear about that, or You shouldn’t tell me, or I’m not gonna tell you anything about me.

The best relationship is where it can be quite. But on the other hand, okay, so there are very professorial people out there that may be [00:25:00] a good mentor that are very formal and you need, you know, especially as an undergrad, you’re gonna probably have some of those. And that’s definitely a case where I actually think you should go in with a piece of paper that.

What you’re gonna discuss, what your questions are. That is impressive to a lot of people. You sort of, it comes across the desk. It’s clear that the mentee has put time into it. Do you guys understand the difference between a mentor and a sponsor? So a mentor is sort of that warm and fuzzy thing that we’re talking about that also can help you.

I mean, I think that it’s great when they’re warm and fuzzy. That’s just my bias. They may not all be. But they’re someone that you’re, it’s more of a, a dynamic, ongoing relationship. A sponsor could be a professor at an undergraduate level, would be a professor who isn’t really the mentoring type, [00:26:00] but they get to know you through your papers that you’re writing, things that you’re presenting, the grades you get, and then what they do is they suggest you for, so, Maybe they want you to take on presenting at a meeting, or maybe they wanna have you co-write a review article with them.

So a sponsor is very important and as you move up in your career, they’re critically important. For me, when you look at where I ended up, it’s, it’s a combination of having, um, largely male sponsors when you’re in a male dominated thing where the guy. It sits down and says, Well, will you co-chair this meeting with me?

Well, they’re not really my mentor, but they sponsor me for things because they’re in a position of power to do that. And I’ve gotten to know them and it’s, It’s actually a payback thing where they are asked to do [00:27:00] something and they really. Promote someone else, or maybe they don’t wanna do it all right?

They want you to do the work, but they trust you and so they recommend you. And, and so the whole idea of having a hard line between, you know, personal and professional, I think is starting to blend even when it comes to formal mentoring programs. The one catch to that is in medicine, it’s basically both for men and.

it’s mainly for women, but I, my husband has hit the same thing, is that if you are someone that’s oriented towards your family and you know, as you move on, there are people that don’t wanna hear about that. Yeah. And, and they, um, and actually it’s just as bad for men that are contributing as partners in their family, often can be looked down.

but that to me doesn’t really come up until [00:28:00] you’re way, way later. And I hope that by the time you guys are there, it’ll be gone. Those people will be

[00:28:05] Anna Capasso: dead. Yeah. . Absolutely. I I wanna, you know, I died of natural. Yeah, exactly. And that

[00:28:13] S. Gail Eckhardt: be dead because Yeah. Julia, I was wondering what

[00:28:17] Anna Capasso: advice I’ll have for maintaining that mentor mentee relationship over a long period of time because,

[00:28:23] S. Gail Eckhardt: um, I’ve definitely had some mentors.

[00:28:27] Anna Capasso: I, you know, that they moved, or I started

[00:28:30] S. Gail Eckhardt: school and then we kind of lost touch. And a couple years later I’m applying for something. I’m like, Oh, this person would’ve been perfect to like give me advice of your recommendation. Yeah. So it’s up to you. So most of us, the way to do it is to just. In touch and you know, maybe for some of those it’s too late.

You know, all of us have had that problem where we get busy and we move on. It’s never like if it’s been a, a long time that [00:29:00] your mentor isn’t gonna respond. But it is tougher when, when you haven’t checked in. So I really just consider that a check in. So I have people check in with me all the time. I had someone check in with me like last.

That I hadn’t heard from in, in, you know, prior year or so, cause of covid and stuff. So, um, more than anything, just take it on yourself to check in and if you don’t hear from them, check in again. Yeah. If, if they really invested in you and you had that relationship, it doesn’t go away, but they just kept busy.

Yeah. Um, so that’s what I would say. So you wanna make sure that when people. Or you move that you have those emails cuz that’s critical. Few minutes. Yeah. So what

[00:29:42] Anna Capasso: is

[00:29:43] S. Gail Eckhardt: it that you’ve learned from each other as like that better you with mentee or mentee? Well, I have learned from Anna, first of all, she’s one of those, um, very positive people,

Um, and, and so [00:30:00] it’s, you know, as a mentor, it’s been great. To learn that you can be very positive cuz you tend to get very cynical as you get over and sort of in your career. And so that has been good for me because it’s, it’s inspirational and it helps me sort of say, Oh yeah, there’s multiple ways you can tackle this.

Cause I just have sort of a cynical edge to me. I always. . Um, and Anna has that real bubbly, positive, but I mean, she, I’ve seen her get a little irritated now and then, but , um, but also the organization and, and just sort of forgetting how important that can be.

[00:30:41] Anna Capasso: So that would be what I, Yeah. And I learned that you can be like, she has a leadership position and you can find the time for everybody no matter how busy you.

And she is really graceful and like very like, and I saw her in like in meetings or you know, things that go on and like, it’s hard to take [00:31:00] care of like all these people and manage. So these people and like, she’s always so cool. I don’t know how she does it . I never felt like she’s cynical at all. I don’t know where she sees that.

I always see her so positive and. You know, so willing to help really the, the, and like give people opportunities, you know, sometimes like finding, um, like women struggle with like at work because we don’t have a lot of space and it’s like a men’s world to be honest. Still. And sometimes women are actually harder on other women.

I, I felt that way before happened. Like she is really supportive of everybody. She always wanna mentor everybody no matter what their background is. Yeah. And so I think I learned that and I think, you know, this is something that I’ll keep with me. Try to always be like, I try to be even more positive what I am.

I wanna try to build that like nice with, I wanna make sure that people are work with. Are happy to work with no matter what happens. We have problems all the all the times, and there’s things that we have to start, but I wanna make sure that we can work. And, and try to be respectful one of the other, [00:32:00] right.

And always, you know, be there for each

[00:32:01] S. Gail Eckhardt: other. So, um, hopefully you guys picked up a few tips here and there, but um, as I said, we’re both available forever. Happy to answer anything at any time. Awesome. Thank you

[00:32:13] Anna Capasso: so much. Thank you both for taking the test to do this. Yeah, of course. Yes, sure. That great. And I always appreciate, I think what makes you both so great as mentors too, is that there is this honesty and transparency, right?

Mm-hmm. , there’s this authenticity and so I’m always grateful to you all to have these sort of authentic

[00:32:30] Kristen Wynn: conversations about like, Oh no, it’s hard and it takes work, but it’s possible because we have each other, right? So, Thank you, Dr. Anna Cap Paso and Dr. Gail Eckhart for your time and expertise. If you have questions about today’s episode or ideas for a future episode, please give us an email at Livestrong Cancer Institutes at Dell Me.

Dot U texas.edu. You can also follow our chair, [00:33:00] Dr. Gail Eckhart on Twitter at s Gale Eckhart. Eckhart is spelled E C K H a, rdt. If you have more questions about the Live Strong Cancer Institutes, please visit del me dot u texas.edu. This is Kristin Wynn reporting for Cancer Uncovered. Thank you for listening and learning with.[00:34:00][00:35:00]