Cyprus and World War II: A Turning Point in the War in the Mediterranean

Our guest this afternoon is George Kelling should perhaps say Colonel.

Doctor in the German fashion, Colonel Dr. George Kelling,

he began spent most of his career

in the United States Army beginning in the 1950s. The dark days

of the 1950s when General Eisenhower, President Eisenhower warned us of an

invasion of by the Soviet Union. John Foster Dulles

was trying to rollback the Iron Curtain from there.

Dr. Kelling spent a good deal of his time in Vietnam. From there,

he came back to graduate school at the University of Texas and wrote

his dissertation on, of all subjects, Cyprus.

And this is the topic that he’s going to talk about, soft noon. But, George, I have the feeling

that not many people here have actually been to Cyprus, including my regrettably,

myself. Has anyone else been to. Oh, well, we have a lot of people who have

been to Cyprus. Great.

But I do think he’d be a good idea if we could persuade Dr. Kelling to say a few words. First,

just about Cyprus where it is and the nature of the island

first. Okay. Can anybody hear me? Yeah, in the back. If I if you can’t hear me, hold

up your head and I’ll go. I’ll talk louder. I was older. I can do that.

Just a couple of words. Reformers are in Cyprus, but there is one of these

islands in the eastern Mediterranean. With a Greek and a Turkish background

and maybe the one place that has not been resolved from the

exchange of populations and their resettlements after the First World War,

they retained in the period I’m looking at and still retains a Turkish

and Greek element in their population. And they have two different

governors to two separate governments, plus a British sovereign

base area, which is which is not part of the island of Cyprus. So

the theme of Cyprus is a Greek Greek typer,

a Greek, a Turkish relations. There are more rich Turkish soup of

conflict. And it goes on today, although it’s much more subdued for what it used

to be. To start.

Roger Hirsch has off to answer for. In 1978, I retired

from the Army in 1980 and 80 became a returning student at the University of Texas

in 1984. I’d finally clawed my way to the stage of

choosing a dissertation topic. All bright eyed and bushy tailed. I went in to see

him with a bunch of good ideas. He told me politely but firmly that while these were good ideas,

it would be Cypress. My heart sunk. But like a good soldier,

I marched off the cipher studies. It turned out extremely well,

and there been an excellent choice. What he didn’t tell me, however, was the

cypresses addictive. Since Aphrodite landed on the island in prehistory,

she has cast her spell. All those who have come there,

crusaders Templars, Franks, Venetians, Ottomans

and generations of oyster scholars have all been under her magic

cypresses. Hotel California, you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave

as proof. Thirty five years later, I’m still fooling with Cyprus history.

The topic which captured my attention was another example of

the spill of the island in 1940, when defense plan based on mountain out outports

outpost with a medieval name off of keeps.

Unfulfilled plans for military operations. It could be the dry ice does that blows.

Reading memoirs and narratives of the build up to the 1944 invasion of France,

I have to admit that my eyes glaze over and at the analysis of early and

never consummated plans and I’ve just turned the pages. These planes

lie on the shelf, though, can give it an insight into the state of mind at the time they

were devised. The plan for the defense of Cyprus in 1941 is one such example.

It’s also arguable that the marked a change in the.

In the tempo of the war, in the early years of World War 2,

Cyprus was secure, tidy and geopolitically with its of the

Levant. Now in this Garret Harrison by a French colonial radio regiment

under command of the French headquarters in Lebanon and Syria, and the French fleet added to

the to the security of the island. So long as the French alliance was

healthy. Invasion of Cyprus was hard to imagine. In 1940, however,

the situation began to change dramatically. The springtime collapse

of Normandy in of Norway and Denmark were prelude to the rapid, rapid fall of France

and the low countries France accepting an armistice in 1940.

The security of Cyprus was turned on its head with France and the French Covanta. It transformed from allies

to unfriendly neutrals fresh 070. It was enhanced

by the do.I third 1940 British attack on the French fleet Amercia. Kabeer

the French garrison was withdrawn with a few of its soldiers joining the nation forces

of de Gaulle. The peril increased with the German invasion of Amane increased

Greece, followed by a dramatic airborne landing in Crete, both

accompanied by Luftwaffe superiority and British evacuations.

Thus, in the few months, the outlook for the for the nation. Changed from

that of a comfortable base, deep, deep in friendly territory to an endangered outpost

surrounded by hostile powers and unfriendly neutrals nearby Syria and Lebanon

were where, at least in the informal cooperation with the Germans.

Well, after the stunning subsect success of the airborne forces in Corinth and Crete, it seemed

that Cyprus would would be the next item on Hitler’s menu. At

the same time, the jackals were starting to circle their campfires. It always saw

herself as and as a great power

and was notorious for picking up the pieces of other other campaigns,

having carved pieces out of Yugoslavia, Greece and France with territories in

nearby Delta Cooney’s. Mussolini. Consider him himself heir to the eastern Mediterranean

domain. And we have and we’ve seen seen EISEMANN

scheming, supposedly neutral. France was was not an uninvolved.

The Outten the its first air raid was conducted by the Italian Air Force. It did

little harm, but was the beginning of a series of air raids which continued for several years. On one

occasion, the owner received attacks from German, Italian and Vichy French aircraft.

Softer but more dangerous threats to British sovereignty came from out

friends and allies, even an abject defeat. Greece

and ambitions for the island. The Greek stated, had been wrested from the Turks

through through a series of struggles of shared determination.

Despite the execution of many patriots. What?

What? By 1940, 40 was called the mcgaughey idea, or the great idea was a dream

of uniting all Greek speaking peoples under the Greek flag. The idea added

that at a Greek Crete and thrice and in

the dream and involved emesis or union with northern FPO epigraphs or southern

Albania though to Kinney’s and of course, cyphers. Greek policy

turned his talks to Cyprus even before the fall of Greece.

On April 14th, 10 days before the evacuation of the mainland, but when the end of the campaign

was obvious, the American ambassador in Athens, we received reports that

the king, the king of Greece, had visited him, knowing that the king

would prefer to evacuate the court to Cyprus rather than Crete.

He suggested that Britain might want to see know an enclave in Cyprus

to Greece. So the king could continue to reign from Greek soil. On May

And I’m sorry, in Crete suggesting that too encouraging the Greeks at

their time of a crisis. The British might grant Cyprus to Greece as a personal

present, according to the proposal during

the war. Britain would continue to administer the island under the egis of the Greek king,

but with full with full administration being takeover by Greece after the peace.

Although he is right and rightly remembered as uncontracted,

Victorian imperious Winston Churchill did not object to such ideas out of hand

even before the king’s approach of them to the American ambassador. Churchill, perhaps

considering the Greeks would be support subservient to British influence.

Cable abrasion M.D. Commander. If, however,

the king or any part of the Greek army is forced to do it, Greece,

every facility will be afforded to them and cyphers way better. So the governor of Cyprus

immediately cable the Konya office of such an act would make Cyprus ungovernable and in fact,

mark the end of British rule on the island. Doubts about the future

of the island. We’re not we’re not confined to them to the Atlantic world. Australian

Prime Minister Robert Menzies had been extremely critical of Churchill and

his conduct, the war in the Pacific, or what he viewed as Churchill’s cavalier willingness

to sacrifice Australian troops to his adventures

with the dispatch of the Australian Light Armored Regiment to Cyprus.

The Australian prime minister saw it all happening again.

It appears the intention is the whole Cyprus, at least for the time being. But no

further troops can be made available in Cyprus to Menzies. The forecast

was clear. You will, of course, appreciate what this means. Another forced the evacuation

will have serious effect on public opinion in America and elsewhere. Well,

elsewhere within Australia, there are certain to be serious reactions. His conclusions

were logical, given his knowledge of the situation. Greece should be held and

to that and then should be garrisoned by a sufficiently strong force. Or if such a force

is not available, the enterprise should be abandoned. Governor Barter sells

gloomy prognostication, reflected that of the Australian prime minister,

reflecting his insight on as the man on the spot, he met the minuted

Marella, the majority of Cyprus Cypriots. It was at its lowest ebb being so rapidly

over or after Crete. There are many mutterings in the event of invasion.

We can expect a little help from from the population and some might even turn against us responsible

for the colony. He did. He deplored the course of those under under his administration

for what he perceived to be a military of no built military benefit. The battle would involve,

inter alia, the destruction of main towns and

villages with much loss of life. We shall gain nothing and prestige,

but we shall cause untold suffering to two civilian Cypriots.

At the center of the government. Well, Churchill maintained a stiff upper lip concerning

who plans for for the island. There were stirrings there up and down Whitehall.

Opinions different in different parts of the Foreign Office. But the trend was toward

realpolitik. Her view of the possession of Cyprus and part of the as part

of the overall postwar society for defense of the Mediterranean. One example

of the dozens of Foreign Office Office memos on the topic is perhaps typical

of Foreign Office thinking is most likely that we shall be able to, in practice, to be

able to maintain our sovereignty over Cyprus and the political conditions likely to secede after the war.

Bowing to what the minister Foreign Office official S. Walker saw as the inevitable,

the best thing, of course, was to make what would make what capital was possible. Other than

the inevitable evacuation, we should do everything possible.

To art and to safeguard our strategic intentions. Perhaps the memo, which

best reveal the Foreign Office official mind was by official original Bulker on May

it is possible that on taking Cyprus, the government will decide

well declared to be a part of greater Greece.

The colonial office was was left out of the evacuation of speculation, ostensibly due to oversight.

But their objections were not decisive. The final word, not for the first time, was in the hands of the Prime Minister

on June 6, 1941. He sent a note to the Foreign Secretary, bringing discussion to a close.

It’s much better to leave all all mentions of test cast or

re-adjustment till after the war. I do not think we should see an inch of British territory during the

war. Even this dark hour, Churchill’s innate

optimism shown through tempered by healthy realism. It does not

follow that Cyprus will be immediately taken. If they if the Germans take

it, they will probably give it normally to the Greek quisling government. Well,

well, using it. It won’t make much difference in what happens.

With that decision, the discussion ended with the war

began. The war continued, as did the crisis. The ball passed

into the court of the military command, which they had to plan for them before what was seen as the assault

on the island. Well, considering the plans, the contrast

with those for the defense of Cyprus, with plans for defense of England were notable.

Churchill envisioned defensive of England to contest every every block

in every field, every city with the entire population.

Its finest hour speech delivered in almost exactly a year earlier, was rightly considered

evocative of the air, of the spirit of the time, the raising

of the Home Guard and stay behind parties to to wreak havoc behind behind German lines

made it clear that it was a people’s war to be vision and

and would certainly have had been put into effect had the Germans invaded.

Perception and reality on the ground in Cyprus presented a contrast, Governor Battersea

and the common authorities realized that the Cypriots could not be relied upon to assist in the defense of the island.

Well, at the same time, images of the French roads of 1940 40 clogged with refugees, making

military deployments all but impossible. We’re still clear in the military official mind.

On May 23rd, the call your administration sent guidance to the population in case of invasion.

The short message told the population three times, stay where you are. Putten

pointing out that the enemy with machine gun refugees from the air and make the screams of those in flight

would clog the roadways needed for the fence of the island. There was no mention of resisting

invader on the beaches or in the interior. Without a doubt, the governor

and staff were well aware of the situation on the island and the outlook of the Cypriots.

In addition, the later experience of civilian resistance in Western Europe or for that matter,

in mainland Greece and Greece in Crete, we’re still in the future.

Cyprus. Cyprus will have its people’s war in 1950

Ten years later. Even so, some some voices noted the typical

arms.

G G O Toit Anguish resident, the colony Rotworld, the English language newspapers

that on the day of Governor Better SIL’s advice of the population, saying

I search your page, your pages for some some inspiring official message to be a good

cheer. And what do I find? Two notices, one promises showing currency notice

in the near future. The other, the population of the 50 point of the Cyprus Commission on the Preservation of

Official Monuments. His frustration was clear. Ye gods,

when or someone arrives and. Inspires with with who

will for the present fasion of the Cyprus. Cyprus, the empire and our heritage of freedom. Never once

a flesh and blood. Personal appeal to the Cypriot and the impassioned language with the

Cypriots in pretty particular expect to understand hard

not to sympathize with toit. But he doesn’t seem to apply to the fire.

Churchill reassured the foreign and colonial officers sparred.

Australia carped. The governor expected the invasion

and Geo Toit fulminated, but the understaffed Garrison had.

Of the island have had a bell to prepare for. The German juggernaut appeared to have been all but

inevitable with the dramatic German village victories through Denmark and Norway, the whole countries,

France and Rio. Recent weeks. Assaults on cottonelle Greece and create

the are three resulting in costly British evacuations

appeared that the British airborne assault on Crete could could be easily unleashed on Cyprus.

I’ve found nothing in the records to indicate that there was a conscious design to have more evacuations.

But the defense plan call for defense of the interior, which would preclude evacuation,

even had the British had the air and naval power to make

such an act possible. Coast defense was not entirely neglected.

For example, I found the remains of a machine gun posts overlooking the rocks near paphos,

where Aphrodite came out of the sea. There were coastal outposts,

but domain system of to repel invaders. As noted above,

it was to be offense and a defense by British forces, not a people’s war.

The garrison included an infantry behind the Cypress regiment and some part timers,

the Cyprus volunteer force. But the local units were not prominent in the defense

game breaks thinking did not see the Cypriot as a fighter. A review

of the records really shows a number of comments on the suitability of the Cypriot military

life. For example, a pre-war War Office study

noted climate effect on natives, although probably in gradings out

in great measure, responsible for the constitutional laziness and thrift with nature

of the Aboriginal Cypriot climate could not be said to have any marked the fifth effect on the native population.

The War Diary of a Pack transport group explained it may prove of interest that the peculiarity

of Cyprus Cypriot troops their grandfathers were were in all probability brigands

living in mountain villages.

Murders unfold, unfortunately, not unheard of. Men with knife

each other over a gambling debt at cards and we’ll shoot the regimental police and kill them.

Gambling is popular, popular and very difficult to control. And before night

fortnightly pay, Amandla may lose all his money. And leads to selling kit.

It is obvious that the British command did not expect to raise any reliable units from Cyprus villages.

You know, somewhat halfhearted attempt to use the cyphers for the islands of Cypriots, for

the islands, the fence, the Cyprus commando was formed in Nicosia

on on June twenty twenty fifth nineteen forty one, despite

the early urges that a standard view of their Cypriot. As a brigand

with traits, one who expected to be. Exploit it

for your regular warfare. The headquarters saw the first act as making

proper soldiers out of the approximately 60 commandos. The commander

gave them basic military training with emphasis on teaching him how to shave on day five of training.

The record notes that the recruits lack coordination

and suppleness. It’s hard to read between the lines

of the barebones ordinary diary, but it appears that the intent was for was to train

soldiers within a band of guerrillas. The unit was issued

with the prestigious commando Green Beret, but their armament

was captured Italian rifles and with apparently no automatic weapons

or grenades or demolition materials. The unit made reconnaissance

of nearby mountains and established established

ammunition and fuel depots in the forest. But there seems to be little enthusiasm

for or realism in the projects. The Cyprus commando was quietly disbanded

after about six months. After all, after which time

had stood up and perhaps influenced by the headier of the Cyprus of Aphrodite,

the Crusaders, Richard the Lionheart and others, the strong points were given

the evocative name of keeps. The plan calls for a series of eleven, keeps

most of them on high ground to be garrisoned by one or more companies supported by mobile and armored

units. A large central reserve would be available to go the hate

of the keeps under attack and some fighter airfields will be defended

to be used in support of the keeps. The intent was not

for the keeps to be static fortresses, but rather the bases for mobile columns roaming outside

the perimeters. The mobile Collins would scream the keeps and keep the roads open for the central reserve.

The plane, Leighton, made an evacuation all be impossible. In fact, assume

that the enemy could land from the sea it will and supply Thompson and insulations

near the coasts were being prohibited. It’s easy to pick holes in the plan.

There’s a certain unreality about medieval keeps out of range for mutual support,

fire support and opening and defeat in detail. It appears

that the keeper who have been invaders dream such speculations will die. You know, shows showed the accuracy

of 75 years hindsight, full understanding of the effects of the power and the

inability of airfields to ground attack as well as on underground and guerrilla

warfare were to come.

As it turned out, the crisis over.

It turned out the crisis, if it ever existed, who was leading the abrasions Asian side of Syria

began on July 10th, the date of the Australian Prime Minister’s disparaging letter

with the Syrian and Palestine airfields in allied hands, air support

against any invader was assured. The always the facts remain weak and the Italian

German invasion was not it not impossible. We saw sort of little strategic purpose.

Other humans were also favorable by Midford 1941, the British ultra program

of breaking German codes was becoming reliable. Although well aware of the danger

of over reliance on ultra Britain, strategists knew

that the credit pyramid that the crypto German

signals traffic made almost no reference to the attack on Cyprus. Perhaps more safe

significant. The British were aware of the upcoming invasion of the Soviet Union.

Highly classified information was only available to the London Command Post and the highest levels of the military

command. The beleaguered planners on Cyprus were unaware of these impending

events. In addition,

it now seems that the threat of a German invasion never existed

in the eyes of the of the Nazi authorities in the aftermath of the successful

invasion of Crete. The German juggernaut appeared in Invincible. The commander

of the German German airborne assault on Crete was right continue

to turn a curt student commander. The 11th Air Corps, which had conducted the assault, was raring

to go and propose an early assault on Cyprus to follow up the dramatic victory

in Crete. He did not speak for the Nazi power structure.

The Greek Greek campaign had been a Pyrrhic victory, with German casualties so heavy.

That Hitler opportunity was never attempted. Another attempted airborne coup.

The Germans did not totally disarm, discard the idea of an attack on Cyprus. But such an assault would

have been little we’llsee. Sexual assault. We’ve been theory theoretically possible during 1943.

The fog of war was thick. Was. With 77

years after the fact, we know we know that the threat of a German invasion of the island never really

existed. It was not so clear that time in London

or in Nicosia. It appears that the British officials assumed

the island had been been lost. Even Winston Churchill, for all his optimistic pronouncements,

appearsto felt the Germans would attack and conquer. It’s difficult to criticize their analysis at the time.

No responsible official could realistically have ruled

out a German attack on Crete. On Cyprus. The British

defense plan is more difficult to evaluate since the invasion did not take place. It’s impossible

to say how the plan and the keeps would have worked in practice.

It’s hard and it’s hard to banish the concept of the …keep as a crusader castle

from which armored vehicles like the Knights of Old were Sally forth over the drawbridge. Despite

the foe, despite the melanoma culture, the idea is not particularly

unusual and is quite similar to the boxes in the Japanese offensives and in India,

In the second Chindia IPO operation in Burma, I quote in a close

reading, is more interesting for the leaves out than when its says the Cyprus defensor

scheme more or less assumes German air superiority. An appendix dealing

with the with the concept of the keeps does not mention friendly or enemy air power.

There is no mention of logistics or stocking up the keeps in advance of battle.

It is notable that keeps her out of range from one another and unable to provide mutual

fire support. Also, weather, while not mentioned dispersion keeps across

the island, appears to assume that the Germans will be able to land by sea or air at will.

After the battles of France and Greece, there could be no doubt the potential for these types of attack

that they were possible and affected. Since the troops available.

For the defense of the island, where in any case, insufficient. The plan appears to be one of despair

to make the best of an impossible situation.

There was no battle and we will never know. It appears the German invasion, backed by sheer

airpower, will become a series of last stands, with the German forces wiping out the keeps one by one

in the location that keeps was all but precluded evacuation. I found no document Tasso state,

but once again, after the Agami ignominious evacuation to Norway, Dunkirk,

Greece and Crete, it’s possible the Cyprus commander

then, given the order, that there would be no more evacuations to do or die.

Whether his opposition is correct or not. Mid nineteen forty one saw the end

of the nosedive of British fortunes that had taken had taken since this spring of 1940.

Successes in Syria and Iraq. When parties to stabilize the eastern Mediterranean

and the German invasion of Russia made an invasion of Britain unlikely mid

The invasion trache threat came and went and the war moved on.

Although establishes a strategic base in the eastern Mediterranean and it fulfills it continues

to fulfill that role in the years before and and and those today with the sovereign base areas

which are not part of the Republic of Cyprus. British, but the British possession of

Cyprus was a strategic deficit in 1939 1945.

The answer is forgotten, but perhaps it took a new life in the 1950s. Since the site’s partially

prepared for the keeps my Welborn seen later, I’ve seen waiter service as

Hydes with the Yoko revolt, in which the view of the Cypriot as a passive non

fighter was put through put to the test like.

I found several points of this talk very engaging about the war itself, but I would like to

pick up at the end because I, for one, have always thought

that the British should have simply ceded Cyprus

to Greece after the war. That would have solved the problem. And the Turks were then too weak

to have done anything about it. And I know there’s some support for this, but why didn’t it work?

Cyprus is always seen as a strategic base, which could not be ceded.

And it’s been a long time since my dissertation, but the famous.

The famous Hopkins endeavor. About 1954. Say

there are some colonies which will never be given up because of their strategic importance.

And I think that you see that point of view still

still going on, that even after Cyprus won, it was ungovernable

after the Okah rising. The final.

Arrangement. Still have two areas as British territory,

and these are specifically not not British bases in Cyprus. They

are British British territories apart from Cyprus. Now

I can see that maybe 20, 30. When there’s an overall

reunification of of Greek and Turkish Cyprus

and a call for the removal of foreign troops, we shall see how that whether that’s

going to stand up or not. But we won’t know until then.

David, I was just thinking that probably the best known family member of the Greek royal

family is Prince Philip. Yes, he has something directly from his father’s

side. Absolutely. You know, despite the fact that he took his mother’s name,

Mountbatten was turned into Mountbatten. But I’m wondering if there’s any and he will

during World War Two. Well, he served at the Royal Navy. He was also part of the battle creed and battled Kitimat

and received the Greek Work Prize. And so I’ve been wondering since given that the British royal family

actually has a very strong connection to Greece through him and there is apparently an official Greek royal

family that I don’t think very many people know about. Is there any possible role for a monarchy in particular

or maybe like a less used member of the British royal family, like Prince Harry is the sort of

royal family that might be in some way to have seriously potentially useful to griefer in Greece or Cyprus

or Macedonia, whatever they’ve agreed to call Macedonia. Is there any way that you simply participated?

Werman Let me give you a good guess so I don’t think I can support a very, very quick. But

when Philip. Became became British,

especially when they married. It was with. They made every possible effort to

separate him from anything to do with the Greek throne. And I

think at that time, the Greek king, Greece, was still on. It was still on the throne.

And if he had any interest in the future of Cyprus. I’ve never seen it.

I can’t say he did. And I’ve never seen

anything on that one. It makes you wonder, though. Yes, sir.

Churchill was very interesting during the war, trying to get the Turks to

join the allied side of Cyprus ever in any way

possible bargaining chip. I don’t think

that the British mind in the 40s earned during the war

ever saw Cyprus as anything but a a Greek island with some Turks on it.

Now, he did a lot of things to bring Turkey into the war, but. And,

you know, we were just talking about cute. There’s a lot of records in queue. But I

have to say, I’ve never seen anything on that line. They were always dealing.

With with the Greeks. But the Turks said that if there’s ever a

change in the status of the island since it was originally Turkish, they expected to be consulted.

Yes, sir. Oh, I got a series of related questions,

sir. First of all, what was the size of British military forces

and what kind of units composed the force? Tanks, artillery, infantry?

What are we talking about here? Talking about. Probably

for. Medium grade British battalions

and a light armored light armored regiment. Plus, a lot of

a lot of this and that. I say there’s a there was a 1st Battalion, Cyprus Regiment,

which pretty much was designed to go through a

guard. The Copperfield’s on the on the western part of the island. But

it was never it varied. You know, as the war went on,

but never more than than six battalions. What you

say, 700 to battalion.

I can’t count the site.

How were they supplied? What were the needs of civilian

military at this time? Was were supplied with Jordan, from

Egypt, from the Middle East, where I come from, a lot of stuff

was coming from from Egypt to the Famagusta. Yeah, from Gershon

on the extreme Scheuring eastern coast was was the best port.

Any good food? Yes. Food both ways.

They also. Tie

a tie and bomber landed in Cyprus and of still flyable,

so they loaded up with Cypriot potatoes and sent it to Egypt to sell

Hurum. So it goes both ways. But the island was generally,

generally fed itself and self-sufficient basic.

Basically are they have one of the first innovations of the

of the Cyprus government when when the war broke out, when they diverted

the grape crop or part of it from wine to bread and made

Raisin Bran raisin bread to make the wheat go further and say

such things as that. But generally they generally they fed themselves. There’s some things they didn’t raise,

but there were a. There was no family on the island.

Walter Yeah, I haven’t been to Cyprus yet, but I’m wondering if it’s similar to

Haiti, Dominican Republic. Is there a division between the Greek side and the Turkish?

Yes. All intermingled? No, no.

And in 1974 at the time, first degree, so they had then.

Then the Turks invaded and they had a very bloody exchange of populations,

Turks going north, Greeks going south. And they established what they call the Green

Line, which was really just a green magic marker, a map

which became the frontier. And in my days when I was in Cyprus,

it was a guarded frontier where soldiers on both sides, a

buffer zone in between and U.N. soldiers patrolling in between.

Now, it’s still two states and the line is still there,

but it’s much more over. For example, a Turk can take a taxi to

A and can work in the south and in Greek Cyprus, Greek can take a taxi. They are to

the airport and fly to somewhere. They couldn’t do that when I was there. You don’t really need

a passport. You need a passport. Yeah. It is. It is

a frontier. But it’s not like the Berlin Wall now anymore. It’s more more

something you can go through. John,

part of Nicosia on this young Turkish

Youngsville, north coast on the hill. And

you just joined the United Nations. Yes. See you. Yes.

Yeah. OK. A school.

And we could only go. Yes. Because the arrangements been made. But I remember

the U.N. soldiers in that year. Yes. Stay with me.

I hate to devolve into the war story, but one thing, my show here is what it was like then. It was a guarded

frontier. No doubt. No doubt about it. But it went through Nicosia.

The buffer zone was it was a kilometer wide. We’re going through Nicosia. It was

one street and one time. I told some of the old people this

arrived up on a checkpoint on the Greek side. And there

on the Greek side, there was a Greek Cypriots older with rival. Bored

stiff, sir. And you. Oh, and.

Khoza Street. The Turkish Cypriots older and

bored stiff in the center of the Canadian u._n.’s older, sitting on a chair

with a with a tennis ball thrown at the tennis ball, catching

this cap. The Thinkwell kitchen is camp now. There was a separation. I mean,

they weren’t shooting at you either. Oh, the time. There was some

violent night. They blew up the hotel. We stayed made

of hydropower, hydropower since the late 90s.

And they’re always into it. I mean, always.

What I say was was typical. But you didn’t see it everywhere. There was always.

You know, mining. In fact, when things loosen up a little bit,

the I’ve got a European effort. They joined the European Union.

They got a European grant to de-mine the Green Zone. The Green Line.

But but they are still separate, but not like not as hostile as they were.

Yeah. Yes, ma’am.

Yeah.

Yeah. The story just told.

I can only give you a heavy dose. I’ve lost a wolf start to Cyprus.

So that’s my day, which has changed a lot. Well, since they do

since the demise of the whole of the Cold War, I am told

that the ten million dollars a day in the 90s was coming in the Cyprus

inns and briefcases by Russians. I

don’t know the line between money laundering and offshore investment,

I can’t say, but it’s totally has totally changed since

my days. And for example, the Cyprus bank we hear so much about in my day.

That was where Middle-Class people get to have their savings account. And so it changed.

But the bank from Cyprus, Wilbur Ross.

And there was so much so much I know money there that

when they when the Greek economy collapsed, Cyprus collapsed with it.

And they put a tax on on the bank accounts.

George, I have a question about the early years of the war when the British

actually faced a pretty dangerous situation. They didn’t know that there was going to be a diversion of German troops

towards the Soviet Union and the danger of invasion seemed very real. And the governor

seemed to think that the morale of the Cypriot population

was very low, in fact. I believe he said that we can’t really depend

on the day the Cypriots not turning against us. Now, how do you explain such

a low morale on the part of the British population, of the population of Cyprus,

that this is not a very good example of effective colonial administration?

I’ve seen all of nationalism, and I think I think the point packed was that

the. The British took over Cyprus from the Turks.

Never. You know, the Greeks were not who were not consulted.

I’m not pro-green, I’m just giving my my analysis. But the Greeks never felt that this was there,

that the Clinton administration was there. Their war had very

little loyalty to it or whatever. And

there they felt that they were Greeks living living in Cyprus. And

so they they never had any particular interest in furthering British

interest. Now, there were a couple of prominent Cypriot families

who were very pro-British for their own loyally pro-British. And a couple

of them were trying to mediate.

But they were sort of frozen, frozen out. No sympathy with

me. I’m sorry. No sympathy with mainland. Yeah. The ship to with mainland.

They feel we are Greeks. Yeah. What about the Turks? Turks.

They are a little more ambivalent. They never think

they were a minority. They did what they had to go button to get by.

They never.

I don’t think they felt they were hyper shirks and they expected me

to be recognized as such, but they never had the feeling

that the Greeks did that they were just really Greeks who are in the wrong place. Did they resent the Brits? The Turks?

Not much. They.

You probably saw the Brits as a. Guarding against the Greeks.

Yes, sir. For an hour or so before

I go to the library and catch up on the periodicals today,

I’ve sold one titled Cyphers Today. I thought perfect I’d never seen before.

So I pointed out that the last issue was from 2014.

So it depends on how you define today, I guess. And then leafing through it,

it seemed to be all Greek. Yeah. And so I’m wondering, are

there any efforts to integrate or accommodate or include

the two nationalities at all? Not really. Publication? Not really. It’s like United

States and Canada. There are two separate countries represented. The U.N.,

right. Representing the U.N. Is Greek Cyprus. OK.

And the what they call the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus has

diplomatic relations with. With Turkey. And

they’re talking about a couple of the Turkic states and the. post-Soviet Union?

I don’t think so. Solidify that or not, but there are they’re isolated.

An interesting thing to me. I don’t really understand all these things,

but the EU considers the Turkish Cypriots as

as members of the EU.

Based on the fact that as far as you’re concerned, the island, the island joined the EU.

What’s the breakdown of life? I can’t

give you numbers. It’s about. Sixty five percent, 35

percent. About the

happened at the time of the collapse of the economy and they quit doing that. That was the last that was the last copy. Yes,

ma’am.

I’m sorry. Yeah.

There’s there’s a lot of other religions in the

in Cyprus besides a besides a mostly Greek, Greek, Cypriot, Greek

Orthodox. And they’re broken. They they know who they are and they’re very concerned about their rights.

And I can name a few and there’s probably some. I’ll miss them there with a couple. The Latvians

who are Catholics who are descendants of the crusaders. There’s the eastern

right Catholics. There’s

what they call the middle bimbo coin, which is Lindsay Willman Woolsey, which was sort of a

mix Turkish or Greek Orthodox

Muslim. And there’s there’s nurses, there’s a few of these. These are small

in numbers, but they’re very, very. They know exactly

who they are. And they’re out there are part of these other communities. And I’ll tell you so I think

we’re coming to our last question. Just after my comment,

January 2013 went on a tourist to North Cyprus. And I was

I was surprised to hear you say that the E.U. considers Turkish Cypriots as citizens,

because as we are going across the street about if we got our passport

stamped by the northern Cypriot side, then the EU wouldn’t go in.

And this week, I got. But I’m just right

that they consider the Turkish Cypriot. Right. They.

I can’t get into the citizenship, but they can tell him there’s a lot of EU aid projects

and Turkish Cyprus. But they they give the EU considers

that the. The whole island

is in the EU. I don’t know which you’ll be a Turks it or not.

George, Alaska. Next to the last question, I guess I

thought back in the day the Turkish population was much more of

It depends on who you ask. I think today I’ll think about today because there’s hope

that all the Turks have moved into knowing more. It was more like a.

But there’s been a lot of immigration in the Turkish Cyprus and one that I

know it. Of Bulgaria, Bulgaria and Turks were expelled from Bulgaria

and they were relocated in the Turkish Cyprus. Of course, there’s a good there’s

a Turkish garrison for my forty thousand year, 4000 soldiers there. George,

last question, an entirely different subject. The literary dimension. Tell us your

views about Lawrence Durrell. They’re not going to be very popular.

OK. I write. Of course, every time you

got it, you got to read better weapons. Go do it.

I thought he was the typical condescending British

journalists wonder. Yeah, that’s my

opinion. I can’t prove it. You know it. That’s why I got out of it.

You’re very, very condescending. I remember some one time he said yes.

And with great difficulty, I maintain my size as a fairly lean. And

everything you said was showing that there’s difference in sort of cute little people down there.

I didn’t like it. Tell me tell me if I’m wrong.