Episode 8 – Reflecting on the Journey of LGBTQ Studies at UT

[00:00:00] Karma Chávez: This is Audio qt, the podcast of QT Voices, the online magazine of the G B T Q studies program at the University of Texas at Austin. Thank you all for listening to Audio qt. I’m your host, karma. And although queer studies has always had a lively place on campus, at least as far as I know, it was institutionalized, uh, only, uh, in 2017 with the founding of the LGBTQ studies program.

[00:00:36] Five years in and on the precipice of a leadership transition. On this episode, we’re going to reflect on the past few years with my good friend, professor Lisa Moore. Professor Moore is the Archibald Ahi regions professor in American in English literature, professor of Women’s and gender studies, and director of the LGBTQ studies program here at ut, a [00:01:00] position she’s been in since 20.

[00:01:02] She’s stepping down at the end of the semester, is the first director of the program to have served a full four year term, and I’ve invited her to Audio QT today because I wanna reflect with her on her time as director, her where she thinks UT is in regard to LGBTQ issues and what she thinks the future may hold.

[00:01:21] So Professor Moore, welcome to Audio q.

[00:01:24] Dr. Lisa Moore: Thank you so much, karma. It’s really, uh, an honor to be here. Audio QT is my favorite feature of our magazine, QT Voices.

[00:01:34] Karma Chávez: Well, you know, I’d rather like it as well, but I think our, our work in general on QT voices, I appreciate very much. But let’s go back a few years before we get there.

[00:01:44] And tell me a little bit about what LGBTQ studies looked like on campus when you first arrived here in, uh, 1990.

[00:01:52] Dr. Lisa Moore: Well, , it didn’t, it didn’t really look like much. There wasn’t much that was visible, but I think it [00:02:00] was sort of an important sign that, um, when the English department advertised a feminist theory position that, uh, someone like me who had a, you know, queer studies dissertation, my dissertation was on love and sex between women in, uh, 18th century novels and.

[00:02:21] It was the first time I think that um, anyone in or maybe at UT had ever been hired on the strength of their queer studies research. So for that to be part of the definition of what feminist theory could mean on this campus, I think was, you know, the beginning of, uh, desire to try to grow that visibility.

[00:02:43] And I have to give a lot of credit. . Um, my slightly older colleague, Anne Fevi, who was in the English Department, um, at that time hadn’t, uh, hadn’t written her her own first queer studies book, the, you know, blockbuster Archives of the Feelings. Mm-hmm. . [00:03:00] Um, but I think her interests and influence, even as an assistant professor in the English department, really shaped, um, what they were looking for and who they ended up hiring.

[00:03:12] So I grabbed that brass ring. and, uh, started teaching, um, intro to WGS classes and then developed a new class in gay and lesbian literature and culture almost right away. So I would say there weren’t really any queer studies classes until we developed gay and lesbian literature and culture, as we called it back then.

[00:03:34] Now it’s of course LGBTQ plus literature and culture. Um, there weren’t really any queer studies classes on campus. There were queers. Mm-hmm. , um, some of whom were doing queer studies. Uh, and uh, there were professors who were teaching queer materials in their classes. That weren’t denominated queer studies classes [00:04:00] overall, and Anne was certainly, um, you know, one of the most important of those.

[00:04:05] There were a lot of older faculty on campus who, um, were very kind to me and ended up also being mentors for me. Bob Dawson in the French department was one, he was an 18th century study scholar like me. Of course, he worked on French literature, but he had me and my girlfriend at the time over for dinner to.

[00:04:24] You know, kooky, um, uh, Hyde Park house that was just filled to the brim with antiques and old French manuscripts and was just kind of like a, an iconic, you know, uh, older gay man’s, um, you know, closet of treasures. And, uh, he was very out sort of socially and on campus. Um, his. It just was not in, in, um, queer studies or didn’t really have anything to do with mm-hmm.

[00:04:55] with queer studies. But, you know, he was important to me. And later, uh, when I came [00:05:00] up for tenure, I found out that his presence on the p and t committee actually pretty much, um, was responsible for my tenure case, not being completely scuttled. Wow.

[00:05:10] Karma Chávez: Wow. So allies come in all forms and they always

[00:05:13] Dr. Lisa Moore: have. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[00:05:16] I was grateful there was someone in the history department. There were, you know, there were a few people and I was always happy to, they, they really sought me out and tried to make me feel welcome. Um, but certainly from the time I got here, my friendship and colleagueship with Veic was, uh, what really allowed us both, I think.

[00:05:37] Push back against, um, disciplinary norms and really start to, uh, create space for queer studies. Yeah.

[00:05:44] Karma Chávez: And so I assume it was in the nineties that people like you and Anne started to talk about the possibility of institutionalizing LGBTQ studies, maybe just gay lesbian studies at the time. What did those early conversations

[00:05:57] Dr. Lisa Moore: look like?

[00:05:59] [00:06:00] Well, um, In my first year in the English department, I started, uh, yes, we called it Gay and Lesbian Studies Reading Group. Um, just because that was the kind of, um, you know, uh, informal, um, academic community that I was used to from graduate school. And having just come from Cornell where I’d gotten my PhD, um, Uh, I had seen how that reading group had turned into, um, uh, uh, LGBTQ studies, um, concentration in the English department that graduate students could get.

[00:06:37] And so, you know, I thought of it as both something I wanted to do for my own professional development and to meet people. And because there was a big cluster of queer graduate students who kind of had been waiting for someone to. Direct their queer studies dissertations. These were people in English, but also in Rhetoric and American Studies.

[00:06:56] Um, so, um, [00:07:00] so they were very, um, Important to populating, you know, those early, uh, queer studies gatherings. Um, and I ended up as an assistant professor directing three or four dissertations of people who had finished all their coursework, but were trying to finish projects that were, um, mostly in that case, well, not all, not completely, uh, queer studies, projects of various descriptions, um, and just hadn’t.

[00:07:28] Anyone to work with or help them finish. So, um, that was really, uh, you know, taught me a lot, um, for sure. And then when Gretchen Ritter was the director of the Center for Women’s Engender Studies, this was maybe, uh, you know, around the Millennium , um, She wanted to create, uh, some research clusters [00:08:00] to sort of, um, elevate the intellectual profile of the, um, of the, uh, Center for Women’s and Gender Studies.

[00:08:11] So one of the areas she wanted to concentrate on was, um, by that time, LGBTQ studies. Um, and of course this was, so 10 years had passed, English department had hired Neville Ho Theater and Dance had hired Jill Dolan and Stacy Wolfe. There were, uh, O Jones was here in the theater department. Um, there were just a, there was.

[00:08:34] More, uh, robust presence of queer study scholars on campus than there had been in 91. Um, and I think that’s what Gretchen was picking up on. So, um, She established this research cluster, which I think Jill Dolan first chaired, and Anne Chaired and I chaired, and, uh, Gloria Gonzalez Lopez chaired and, um, Ector Dominguez, RVO Kaba [00:09:00] chaired.

[00:09:00] Um, and over the years, you know, that became a great meeting place for, um, for faculty and grad students interested in doing this work and really for the first time, Allowed it to spread beyond English department and even beyond COLA as we started working, especially with students in fine arts and communications.

[00:09:20] Hmm

[00:09:21] Karma Chávez: hmm. I love getting all that history, uh, here for people to, to know about because it’s not something I didn’t know a lot of that I knew, like generalities about that. So, um, thank you for sharing, for sharing that. So you took over after Anne left. So Anne Tich of course, was. inaugural director of the program when it comes into fruition in 2017.

[00:09:41] And then mm-hmm. , you know, Anne abandoned us and, uh, you took over. So to and I, I think you were, uh, a little reluctant to take over this director. Uh, are you glad

[00:09:54] Dr. Lisa Moore: you did? Oh, I’m so glad I did. I’m so glad I did. It [00:10:00] really has been, um, such a, an important experience for me intellectually. , um, personally in terms of community, and I would say it really got me through, um, you know, the last years of the, uh, Trump presidency, c you know, all of these terrible disasters.

[00:10:23] Summer of 2020, uh, all of the, uh, police violence, um, you know, It was a rough few years, but the fact that I was in community with queer studies and feminist studies, scholars and staff, and students made going to work every day something that seemed to help, you know mm-hmm. , it was just like, wow, everything is going to hell around us.

[00:10:51] Uh, it seems very dark out there, and yet I’m gonna show. Uh, and be with a group of people who are trying to do something [00:11:00] to take care of each other, to, um, you know, ameliorate the worst of the violence, to acknowledge it, to study it, to theorize it to, um, um, create spaces for activism around it. Um, that was really, um, really fantastic.

[00:11:20] My reluctance just had to do with. I think a lot of professors feel this way. You kind of get into this game cuz you like to spend a lot of time alone reading , you know, especially as an English professor. Yeah. And you know, I would say I’m among the many, um, academics who might be considered friendly introverts.

[00:11:42] You know, like I love being with my people, having an intense conversation in a class or at a conference or whatever. And then spending most of my day. Um, you know, yeah. Uh, just in reading or writing or, um, thinking. [00:12:00] Um, so, uh, even though I have always been involved in activism, and I definitely consider academic leadership to be, uh, site of activism, it can be, um, uh, it’s something that, um, you know, I, I do feel.

[00:12:21] It takes a certain amount of, um, getting up the guts to go and put on a public face every day in a, in a slightly different way than when you’re, um, a teaching professor. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And so, you know, I think a lot of us balance a sort of personal. Uh, you know, off duty time with creative time, with research time with a sense of, you know, commitment and, and responsibility to our academic communities.

[00:12:55] So my reluctance only had to do with that. Um, [00:13:00] also, I wasn’t a hundred percent sure that, you know, there’s so many talented queer studies. scholars on this campus, especially scholars of of color. And, you know, I just thought, does this, you know, does the next director really need to be, you know, another older white scholar?

[00:13:17] Um, but in the end I was convinced by, uh, my friends that, you know, uh, I could do some institution building that would. Make it appealing, uh, make it a job that was, uh, a little bit more secure and less of a, um, uh, you know, less of a potential burden and more of a potential opportunity for the next director.

[00:13:46] So really from the beginning, I was committed to doing just a four year term so that it wouldn’t turn into a thing where you know, the same person. Dominated that mm-hmm. institutional space for a long time and kind of wore out their [00:14:00] welcome. I wanted to make it a great job for the next person and I, I, I hope that it will.

[00:14:07] Karma Chávez: Well, I, I mean, I love that. I think there’s, uh, so much to be said for transitioning leadership and, and for leadership to stay fresh. And we all know it can happen when it doesn’t. So, um, I think that’s a ethical move. Uh, I say as I just started my second term as chair, um, ,

[00:14:23] Dr. Lisa Moore: well, I mean, sometimes, sometimes there just isn’t a, you know, sometimes that’s the ethical move and Sure.

[00:14:30] I would say, you know, it’s similar for you. You know, you’re stepping in because you see that you’re the person who can. who can really do the institution building that’s needed. Sure. And it has to be you right now. And that’s what, you know, Louise Car said to me about being the, the director of LGBTQ studies.

[00:14:48] Lisa, it has to be you, . I was like,

[00:14:51] Karma Chávez: okay. Yeah. And I think that was absolutely the, I mean, that was my position too. And so I’m glad that you stepped in and I think we’ve had a, a great four years. But I’d love to hear [00:15:00] from you what you think has been the greatest accomplishment or achievement of the last four years

[00:15:04] Dr. Lisa Moore: for the.

[00:15:06] Uh, um, well, everything has been a collective accomplishment and achievement of course. And so, you know, that goes without saying, but I wanna say it. Um, I would say the things that I, um, hope have really secured the institutional viability of LGBTQ studies and, um, pulled in some resources that, uh, mean that, you know, there’s.

[00:15:36] Ongoing programs and um, and other things that someone now just needs to keep going instead of like pulling something out of your guts to start something new. Um, you know, you can do that, but not everything needs to be done that way anymore. Mm-hmm. . So I’d say the things that uh, I think are up and running well are, well of course we’ve gotta start with QT voices cuz here we are on Audio QT , [00:16:00] um, , we, uh, We published our first, uh, issue of our online magazine that Karma and I have been co-editing, um, actually in early 2020, just, uh, just as lockdown was setting in.

[00:16:17] And at the time it seemed like, wow, this is kind of good timing for an online magazine. But I think, um, what has become apparent is that you. On a regular basis, quarterly basis, being able to, uh, publish, um, work that reflects the research and teaching that’s going on in queer studies, both on the UT campus and in our broader networks has made it really accessible, like through the whole lockdown period.

[00:16:50] But even beyond, you know, for our contributors, they’re able to. Um, easily, um, connect people to, uh, [00:17:00] sh you know, relatively short. Public scholarship versions of their work. And I think that’s been a benefit to, um, everyone that’s contributed, but it’s also allowed us to show a snapshot of what we do that’s kind of immediately visible because it, you know, it is a beautiful, um, uh, you know, online platform.

[00:17:22] It, you know, we do have video. We do have, um, audio, uh, as well as, um, written pieces. Um, I think it’s just brought in the community in a way that, um, has been really fun and really gratifying and including, you know, reaching out to community artists, off campus artists and activists as contributors, and then national, um, nationally known scholars, you know, as contributors has just, you know, built up those relationships and that’s been really great.

[00:17:55] Mm. Yeah, it’s really fun. So QT voices, uh, would be [00:18:00] one thing. Uh, our LGBTQ studies internship program, um, when I came into, uh, the position in spring of, of 19, it was a, um, legislative year here in Texas. The, uh, legislature meets, um, every two years and. I reached out to a friend in the government department, Sean Terrio, who is one, you know, another one of these, um, friends and peer mentors who’s not a queer study scholar, but he is queer and, uh, he works on, um, On, uh, American politics, especially Congress.

[00:18:37] And I was just saying to him, you know, what can we do to connect with the terrible, uh, you know, to somehow push back against the terrible things that are going on in the legislature? And he suggested an internship program and he was able to connect me with former students of his who were working in the legislature.

[00:18:57] Um, so our first. [00:19:00] Um, Grayson Hunt was the, um, program coordinator at that time, the staff support for the program, and Grayson and I set up this program and our first interns were placed at the, um, legislature. Um, but the next semester we were placing interns in a lot of other, uh, uh, space as well, like equality, Texas ground floor theater, the kind clinic.

[00:19:24] Um, other LGBTQ serving, um, off campus entities. Um, and that too has really grown our community. It’s been really popular with students and we were even able to sustain it during lockdown. Um, because since everything went virtual, all those workplaces, um, we’re able to accommodate virtual, um, virtual internships as well.

[00:19:48] So I think that’s been a big boost to our, um, undergraduate program. . Yeah. I love

[00:19:54] Karma Chávez: hearing about that. I mean, I think that those are major accomplishments and will have a long [00:20:00] lasting effect, um, on the program and everyone connected to it. So, uh, you know, thank you very much for your leadership in, in those ways.

[00:20:08] And, um, I, I guess, you know, we’re facing another legislative, uh, session and, um, This has already been a, a challenging last four years. I’m not gonna ask you what you think your greatest challenge was, because I think there were so many, um, you know, but as we look forward, I, I guess what are you most concerned about, whether it’s, uh, with the legislative session or the political mil more broadly?

[00:20:38] And also do you see

[00:20:40] Dr. Lisa Moore: any opportunities? Yeah, I mean, you have to see opportunities. I will say that, um, dos, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, um, has been such a blow to my, um, sort of innate sense of institutional optimism, which [00:21:00] has carried me a long way. You know, um, it’s just, that’s, you know, Losing access to reproductive freedom is, seems like such a body blow.

[00:21:15] Mm-hmm. . Um, and for it to happen after 40, almost 50 years, um, to have a right taken away that, um, you know, was fought for and seemed like progress and in advance. And although we’ve been fighting to secure reproductive freedom all those years, um, I don’t know, it’s just such a brutal, backwards step. Yeah.

[00:21:47] So of course, you know, I’m concerned about the now seemingly fragile protections we have in place for trans people. Uh, and, uh, LGBTQ [00:22:00] people more broadly, I’m concerned about Obergefell. You know, not that I’m a big, uh, you know, I’m a lesbian Avengers queer, so it’s not that I’m a big proponent of marriage, but it has provided a lot of legal protections and, um, and, uh, solved a lot of.

[00:22:23] Problems of access to resources for many queer people. Mm-hmm. . Um, and that would be a big loss. Um, I think, you know, um, I, I think the whole politicization of the Supreme Court, which you know, has been a place where minority rights have been secured historically, you know, since. Since at least the middle of the 20th century, um, I’m left feeling like I’m not sure what the way forward is.

[00:22:59] Mm-hmm. , [00:23:00] I will say, you know, I certainly, big picture. Um, I will say that I continue to have faith in communities and in, um, on the ground resistance, in the form of living our biggest queer lives in solidarity with other people that are. With, you know, affected by, um, the exact same outcomes. I, I’m, you know, really scared about the outcome of the affirmative action decision that the Supreme Court is hearing this week.

[00:23:30] Mm-hmm. . Um, I think that is, if affirmative, if, if universities are no longer allowed to consider race at all in admissions, not even as part of a holistic assessment of applications, uh, I think that’s gonna be. Uh, pretty untenable on a, a merely bureaucratic level and is gonna profoundly whiten our campuses in a way that is terrifying.

[00:23:54] Yeah. Uh, to contemplate. Um, but [00:24:00] one thing that this position has gifted me with as a whole new, um, network of people across campus who. Are fighting really hard and with a lot more skill and, um, expertise and intelligence, um, and know-how than I have to push back against this stuff. I would very much include you in that group.

[00:24:23] Um, So I just think my job is gonna be to continue to show up for those coalitions and to put my shoulder to the wheel in whatever way I can. And I, you know, we may have to live through a really well, we are living through a really shitty time in history, but you know what, A lot of people have done that before.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:46] Karma Chávez: Yeah, for sure. Well, that sort of quasi uh, hopeful, real note I think is , you know, probably a good place for us to, to wind down our conversation. And so I just wanna, you know, [00:25:00] take a moment to thank you for your leadership of the, the program. And I, I wanna wish you the best on this next semester away from all of us getting some work.

[00:25:09] Dr. Lisa Moore: Thank you Karma, and thank you for all your support and creativity that you’ve, you have just poured into this program. Uh, also over the last four years, you’ve, you’ve definitely been a key player. Hey, well, it takes

[00:25:23] Karma Chávez: a village to raise a program, so it does. Happy to be there. So, uh, again, um, Today, uh, is Lisa Moore, who is the outgoing director of the LGBTQ studies program.

[00:25:37] Uh, Lisa, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:25:40] Dr. Lisa Moore: Thank you Karma.

[00:25:41] Karma Chávez: And thank you all so much for listening to, uh, audio Qt. I’m your host, karma Travis. Have a great day.[00:26:00] .