Episode 1 – Outsider Fest: An Interview with Dr. Laura Gutiérrez

[0:00:04 Speaker 1] This is audio Q. T. The podcast of Q T Voices, The Online magazine of the LGBT Q studies program at the University of Texas at Austin. Thank you for listening Toe audio Q. T. My name is Carmen Chavez, and I’m the host for today’s episode I have with me in the studio. Dr. Laura Gutierrez. Dr Gutierrez is an associate professor in the Department of Mexican American and Latino Latino Studies here at UT Austin. She’s also faculty in the LGBT Q studies program. Dr. Gutierrez is a performance studies scholar, and she’s the author of the award winning book Performing Mexicana. Dad Bandidos. He covered Terrace on the Transnational Stage, which the University of Texas Press published in 2010. She’s also on the board of directors of Outsider on Austin based Trans Media Nonprofit that celebrates the bold originality and creative nonconformity of the LGBT Q plus communities through the presentation of provocative, overlooked and out of the box film, dance, theater, performance, art, music, writing and visual art. Through its annual festival in conference, outsider unites queer artists, audiences and scholars from around the globe to exchange ideas, ignite conversations, transcend boundaries and experienced new pleasures through artistic discovery. Now Outsider Fest happened last month in February, and it is one of the events that the LGBT key studies program here at UT co sponsors. And so, as we kick off the first issue, our our new magazine Q T voices we thought it would be interesting to highlight some of our partnerships, Which is why I’ve asked Dr Gutierrez here today. So Laura Gutierrez, welcome to audio Q T.

[0:01:49 Speaker 0] Thank you. Happy to be here.

[0:01:51 Speaker 1] I am glad to have you. And of course, I gave a brief description of outsider that I basically just ripped off from its website. So I was wondering if you’d be willing to tell us a little bit. Maura, about outsider as well as its annual festival.

[0:02:04 Speaker 0] Sure, So it Z it’s been happening. We just had the sixth annual festival. So it’s been happening for six years, which is, uh, actually coincides with the time that I’ve been here at UT. Um, and you know, one of the things that I love about outsider is the ways in which, as you mentioned, it’s very multidisciplinary. And since my own research in my own thinking moves in different mediums. I’m always sort of happy to have the opportunity to experience dance at the same time that I’m moving to sort of sit down and actually watch films. But of course, one of the things that ISS key for outsider is are the moments in between and in particularly the moment that we have carved out to also have a conference which brings in people together to have conversations. So for me, it’s about the night just sort of being able to offer, um, really cutting edge, you know, out of the box, um, queer performance and other kinds of artistic practices. Toothy Austin community, Um, and actually, slowly we’ve been bringing people from who are flying in from L. A. Who are coming up from San Antonio. So it’s actually having sort of that kind of attention that people are coming to actually experience what they’ve been hearing about. But it’s also an opportunity for people to sort of come together around conversations and themes and things that are, um, I don’t know that are preoccupying us, causing some sort of anxieties, but also at the same time making sure that, um, attention to pleasure is never for gotten right. So the conference on the couch is a specific site for us to have, ah, structured conversation in a relaxed atmosphere. So it’s so it’s about experience off watching art, but also about having conversations.

[0:04:15 Speaker 1] And this is so one of the things that outside office does this conference on the couch, which is basically actually being on the couch having a conversation about some topic. Exactly. Exactly. And so I think I participated in one of those a few years ago. Um and so I guess this the question about pairing the kind of art piece with the conference piece relates to another question I have. Which is about why is it significant for something like LGBT Key studies at U T to partner with a new organization like outsider Um e think this is a kind of

[0:04:52 Speaker 0] a difficult question to answer, but I’ll try to answer it, and from my perspective and how I kind of have seen both outsider and the conversations in within all tighter that bring my guest artists, but also academics and activists together. And then the kind of work that LGBT Q T Studies is doing at UT as you know I would be. De que Studies is in its second year. There was a research custom before, but one of the things that I think for me are significant about the ways in which, um, l g b T Q t studies is doing its programming. It’s around the queer camaraderie, and I think, in fact, you know, queer camaraderie comes from having been and conference on the couch and outsider, right? So I think the idea about having conversations and creating that queer camaraderie sort of begins with outsider or they’ve been influencing each other’s guess, I guess, is what I’m trying to say. The ways in which the conversations because conference on the couch at outsider happens, you know, at the Out House, which is a natural house by where the artistic director of Outsider Fist, the current Nault, lives along with his partner, PJ Robbo, who is who is the president of the Board of Outsider. And they’re both professors at U T. And they’re both affiliates with LGBT Q studies. Um, that kind of conversations that happened across I 35 are kind of feeding into the conversations that are happening at U T and vice versa. Eso the traffic of East West is really important for us the ways in which we’re trying to connect, you know, sort of community and bring them into LGBT Q studies. But then also make sure that you people at U T are also traveling across I 35 to not just experience outsider with with the showcases but also being conversation with the artists that are coming through. Um, e

[0:07:14 Speaker 1] I mean, I think you’ve answered it because that’s part of what I was is interested is why is it important for partnerships like this to exist? Um, and I love that which you provided is a bit of history on how they’ve been so mutually informing to each other, um, and the politics inherent with the movement from east to West, which, of course, is also, ah, movement some ways from white to brown. If it’s west to east, it’s white brows. Sorry

[0:07:42 Speaker 0] in the direction. Yeah, yeah, so I mean, that’s one of the sort of the things for me is a member of of both on the Board of Outsider, but also as the off the last three years is a curator of conference on the couch. Um, not just in terms of sort of trying to work with the artistic director of Outsider Fist in terms of providing or having more presence of black and brown. In addition, ISS performance and artists but also being specifically sort of our, you know, around the couch, being the sort of the principal providers off the ways in which the conversations air flowing. That’s been key for me, at least in the intentionally so in the last two years, off the ways in which I’ve curated Conference on the couch, right, sort of giving the space or allowing that the space and the primary voices that are sort of highlighted a conference on the couch are, um, black, Brown Indigenous as’s well as, of course, trans and queer.

[0:08:50 Speaker 1] So I want to pick up on this thinking about the couch a little bit as queer metaphor. So, uh, if the couches a site where we sit and watch movies, the couch is also a site where we hook up. So there’s something potentially inherently queer about the couch or sexualized about the couch. Uh, and I think that brings me to think a little bit about the significance of this as a queer performance fest, the significance of you as also someone who studies queer performance. And so I wonder if we could maybe use that as catalyst Or just generally talk about, um, the significance of performance of this being explicitly queer and what that means to you and the others who do this

[0:09:37 Speaker 0] work. I mean, um, that Z I love. I love that I love the fact that for you, the couch elicits this multiple meanings around sort of a queer queer pressures and queer aesthetics and queer politics as well, Right, because, you know, just like this podcast is only being audio recorded, and people sort of missing out on the gestures. Um, there’s sort of, ah kind of a politics as well around conference on the couch that we only audio recorded for archival purposes. There’s no, you know, it’s supposed to the showcases that outside it outsider where there’s, um, there’s video recording, Um, the conference of the couch is only audio recorded, but, um, if you’re there, one of the things that I love about sort of being physically present is observing all of the gestures and the movements and the ways in which people add to their, um, you know, to their you know, the words, um, gesture and movement around the couch, right? So there’s a way in which it’s a sort of it’s supposed to be a conversation, and we’re supposed to be thinking and speaking with our heads, but we never We are never detached from our bodies, right? And the ways in which we are very much wanting to make sure that part of the politics, of course off outsider, is that our bodies are very much part of our thinking processes and the ways in which we relate to each other. Right, So I’m always sort of attentive to, you know, um, yeah. Attentive to to what people are doing as they’re talking around the couch. Right. Um, I first got involved with Al Qaeda first the first year. Um, actually, um, current asked me if I would, uh, moderate, uh, a panel on gender and performance, in fact, and you know, to this day, I’m never gonna forget the ways in which, um Sacra Drucker Waas like moving around, making themselves comfortable in the couch and, you know, sort of like with their shoes off and lifting their legs, Uh, you know, to just sort of be comfortable, you know, as they’re talking about their art is they’re talking about, you know, their politics. Eso I I am very much, you know, um, love the ways in which sort off the moment also elicits, um, at least for me, um, provocations to think about and push myself in terms of thinking about performance bond performance studies as a whole.

[0:12:30 Speaker 1] E mean, this makes me want to kind of expand out a little bit and think about queer performance more broadly. And so I mean, I studied performance studies a little bit in graduate school, and you know, I’m not a scholar by any means, but you know, my I think for a lot of us, when we first think about performance, we think about the n e. A four. And so, for those who don’t know in it was 1990 is the national

[0:12:59 Speaker 0] Was it 94

[0:13:00 Speaker 1] somewhere early nineties. The National Endowment for the Arts, which used to actually give quite generous grants, of course. Less so now, um eventually pulled the grants of four queer performance artist. So it was Holly Hughes, Karen Finley, Tim Miller and John Fleck. I

[0:13:18 Speaker 0] think. Karen Finley,

[0:13:22 Speaker 1] Holly Hughes, Tim Miller. I think John Fleck was eso in any case, So these four performance artist who had gone through a full peer review process had been awarded these any aid grants and then later they have their grants taken because of the subject matter, and the subject matter is all queer. And so I remember, you know, learning about this and that was kind of my entrance into queer performance Studies is like, Wow, we’re so provocative that, you know, the government hates us. Um, but I guess the question I have, then it’s sort of that’s for many of us. One of our entry points to thinking about these issues. What does that say about queer performance Now, if anything is queer performance tamer in the post marriage Equality moment? Or how do you think about queer performance in this moment?

[0:14:09 Speaker 0] Well, I think, um, their ways in which queer performance has sort of, um, fractured in multiple ways to to think that, you know, it’s tamer and the sort of post same sex marriage. Um, moment, Um, I but but no Andi, think outside office is trying to make sure that those people who are working to continue to provoke because, I mean, the politics the moment that is sort of the moment that we’re in. Um, in fact, our making me think that we’re back in the nineties or maybe perhaps even further back, despite the sort of, you know, sort of so called, um, I don’t know, you know, sort of move moving forward in terms of equality and so forth. I don’t necessarily think that that is the case. I think that, um you know, the the ways in which kind of government, um, funding has been lessened there, you know, of course, at the same time, you have, you know, sort of corporations and people getting on TV. You know, I mentioned Zackary Drucker. You know, of course, there are people who are kind of participating in in in those kinds off outlets and and bringing representations that might have not been there. We would have never conceived of Ah, you know, show off transgender things, Aziz, part off, you know, kind of pop culture, but they’re still provocative work out there that is not being funded that is by mostly, you know, um, queer by PLC, people who are not, you know, don’t have, don’t have the resource is and who are doing work That is not just sort of pushing the kind of the boundaries around sexuality, but around other issues as well, bringing, you know, sort of a critique of empire bringing off capitalism and so forth. And those voices and those bodies air not being showcased in the ways in which we might expect. So outsiders sort of looks towards the work of these artists. So, um, because it’s still considered, you know, to be shocking and transgressive. And we like those artists because we understand that there is, ah, politics beyond, like, taking your clothes off. That’s not it. It’s, you know, what are the things that you’re actually like doing with your clothes off? Right. Um, what are you saying against multiple forms of oppression? And I think that we’re a moment where we need to be intersectional. If I can say that we’re right. Um and I think the work of these artists are highlighting that.

[0:17:35 Speaker 1] No, it’s interesting. I was actually gonna do a follow up thinking about of course, what characterized the any? A four. They’re all white. Uh, and also, I think I don’t think you meant Thio dig on them at all. But I think about their work. So much of their work was about sort of the spectacle of the body doing outrageous things that were either about being a gay male, which meant a gay white male of affluence with a nice body or being a white woman, sort of same kind of thing, right? But queer of color, black Indigenous queer performance has completely changed the landscape of thes things completely on. Might that be, you know, part of what you know keeps performance on the fringe and also in terms of mainstream, but so significant as a kind of God fly.

[0:18:28 Speaker 0] Yeah, yeah, I know. Exactly. Yeah, you know, and and for me, you know, sort of also coming into performance studies with, you know, learning about the thesis. Um, any a case off these artists being defended? Andi, of course. You know, I remember like seeing Tim Miller on the stage and, you know, off course telling you know his stories with his taking his clothes off, and there’s,

[0:18:57 Speaker 1] you know, there’s a moment

[0:18:58 Speaker 0] in which, of course, is like, okay, that’s provocative. But in our honesty is like moving forward and understanding that you know their thoughts, not just one way of sort of presenting, you know, ideas. Um, I think we’ve moved to a moment in which we need to We need to sort of think about provocative in a more than, ah, the sexual way. Right. Um, because, I mean, it became sort of the butt of the joke, right? No pun intended that. Oh, to do performance art. You just have to take your clothes off, right? But I you know, we’re in a different moment. Yeah. Yeah. So provocation is, you know, is comes in other forms,

[0:19:50 Speaker 1] but I want to pick up on something you just said to ask you your thoughts on it. So on the one hand, what I hear in what you’re saying is that in this generation of queer performance, which is what you’re talking about is black indigenous people of color performers. That sexuality, in a way, is backgrounded because they’re these other issues of which sexuality is obviously apart. But the naked body is sort of not necessarily the site or the naked white body, right? But I want to juxtapose that for a second to think about the broader de sexualization of LGBTI politics. If you see a relationship between those things, if one is actually a corrective on the other, I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that.

[0:20:34 Speaker 0] Um, yeah, I think I think I dio thes are all things that I’ve, you know, think of think a lot about and earlier when, you know, you know, we were talking about when we begin to talk about this. You know, I thought about, you know, sort of what happens in the 19 nineties, right? With with less subsidies for artists via, you know, sort of the state, Um, where a lot of people sort of one corporate. Of course, neo liberalism is sort of, you know, and that has been a killer in terms of thinking about the ways in which, um, everything is is de sexualized, or is this sort of the sexual representations and a sort of exist and are out there are sort of controlled? Um, of course you know, not just through media is so, you know, in the corporations they run the media outlets. Um, but I think this also, um, structures the way that people do their own work in terms of like, oh, in order for me to get on TV or get this, I have to kind of, like, follow a certain structure, uh, in order to get funded or in order for a corporation to sponsor me or whatever. Right. Um, so sexuality has been tamed. You know, I think like there’s so much about LGBT Q politics where sexist Absent. Yeah. Yeah. And we actually we’re talking about this in my graduate seminar last week, Um, that they were happy that I had them read some queer theory where sex was the topic, right? As opposed to queer theory, that it’s like ideas. You know, um and eso we had this conversation and again, it’s something that I actually also think about s O. I mean where working within those structures and with within, you know, artists who are also thinking about other issues, never forgetting to also, of course, think about sexuality at the same time that were intentionally making sure that sex is at the center of both outsider. It’s the festival and then conference on the couch, right? And I’m thinking about the ways in which, in the last two years, we have, um, showcased or brought in, um, heartbeats collective, which is Ah, queer porn collective. That works primarily with kind of okay bodies that are not sort of part of the porn industry, right? So whether they be black, brown, indigenous, you know, um, differently abled or, you know, um, or older bodies, um, just sort of highlighting the work that people are doing in relationship to that. Right? So one of the showcases in the last two years has been, you know, a program by the habit habits collective, um, where they show shorts off these types of films so that then that becomes like, Well, let’s not forget about the sex that people are having right? And let’s not forget to talk about it. A conference on the couch eso habits is sort of always sort of present, at least for me. It’s important that they’re part of the conversations that I curate around conference on the couch habits. You know, their e think 56 members at this moment, right? So one of them is always present or two of them are always present at these conversations. Um, so that’s important for me as well, for for us to not forget that people are You know so much about the ways in which queer theory and LGBT Q politics, um emerge is because off the kind of sex people are having,

[0:25:04 Speaker 1] But I love what you have just brought to the fore, which I think is I just wanna highlight before kind of asking a final question. Which is to say that what these what these performers do what these artists are doing, What the’s you know activists, thinkers are doing is actually reentering sex into the conversation in ways that maybe it’s been absented but not through the lens of sexuality is the basis of identity. Uh, and maybe that is in some ways what distinguishes. Ah, l g B T Q movement that is de sexed and the kind of work that you’re featuring.

[0:25:40 Speaker 0] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just agree with what you just said

[0:25:45 Speaker 1] s so it’s interesting to me. Well, I wanna we have just a couple minutes left, but I wanted to be able to ask you a bit about your current works. I know you’re writing a book about us Latinos performance, and I wonder if you could talk just a bit about your work. And does queerness feature into this at all?

[0:26:01 Speaker 0] Yeah, Yeah. Um, yeah,

[0:26:04 Speaker 1] I know. Actually,

[0:26:05 Speaker 0] in fact, both my work and outsider fist and the kind of work I’ve been doing here, eight ut, um iss sort of the reasoning behind this This book that is actually, in fact, a lot about queer intimacies. And it’s also about what I mean by that is the sort of thinking about, um, the ways in which the the work of the critic and the work of the artist, um are often sort of scene is very separate. And I’m sort of thinking about quick intimacies in the ways in which my own presence is important to reflect on. Not that I wanted to sort of think about myself as I write the book, but I cannot not think about myself and my relationship toothy artists that I’m actually highlighting. Many of them actually have been through outsider, um as performers or artists that being featured in the past. Andi, it’s also in relationship to work that I’ve been seeing in the last, you know, four or five years again since my coming to you, t And, um, you know, sort of my the first book, the book that you mentioned. Um it’s sort of a book that iss kind of hard to, um get because it’s sort of moves in a sort of, ah, white terrain, not just in terms of like, thinking about both the US and Mexico, but also thinking about the kinds of performances that I highlight there. So I think that the book you know, this book on queer intimacies and Latin X performance is sort of, ah, kind of like moving, moving deeper into some of the things that I highlighted there that I didn’t know that I had. There was so much more I could say about, you know, like the work of now Bustamonte, which is one of the artists that will be featured in this in this book on queer intimacies. Um, you know, and the other part of that book it’s so much about cabaret work, which is sort of another kind of my interest, but that’s mostly located within within the context of Mexico. So I’ve I’ve sort of been kind of like, Oh, there’s so much more work around these two types of these two types of performances that I’m thinking about. So let me just sort of write two books that air separate about those two things, right? So that’s how I’m sort of thinking about how this this first book is kind of like the Genesis off like my my future work, right? So one part of it is, is what we just we’re talking about, right? So I do think about you know, the other word that I don’t that I’ve sort of been following, not just by now. Bustamante, but by Ralf Esparza Sandri Barra, also known as La Chica Boom. So I’m sort of thinking about these artists in relationship to my relationship with them, right? And to the ways in which our conversations, um, when we’re together, whether they’re around conference on the couch or at a coffee shop or around the meal or at their home or at my home or at you know, at a bar like those kinds of conversations, are also structuring the way that I think about their work right? And sometimes I myself and involved with the work that they do, right? So those those, uh, those that’s what the book would be about in one sense will be like thinking about this work that I find very important. That is Aziz we’ve been talking about, Um, but also, um, I want to move like method A Logically I want to intervene. How do we how do we write and think about live artists and our relationship to them? So that’s how I’m thinking about that book. Well,

[0:30:19 Speaker 1] we want you to hurry and get the book done, because I think everyone is going to be excited, and I’m your department chair, so I’m excited about it, too, but I think we’re gonna leave it there. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge and experience today. Um, yeah, I

[0:30:37 Speaker 0] think it’s been a pleasure.

[0:30:38 Speaker 1] Good. I’m glad again. Our guest today is Dr Laura Gutierrez, who is associate professor in the Department of Mexican American and Latino Latino studies and faculty in the LGBT Q studies program here at UT Austin. She’s also on the board of directors at Outsider, and I’ve been your host karma Chavez and thank you all for listening to audio QT